[Kid Twist]

I am mostly focused on paying off debt (school loans) since I can't get the kind of return on investment that is any good (my loans aren't that high - paid off the 6-7% now I'm averaged down to 3% but a good chunk of money to go, which is possible now I'm making loot).

Beyond being debt free though, what are the best assets to get given the bad shape of the US economy? Get real estate or look towards acquiring it as a long term play? I have something in mind away from a big city that I think is worthwhile. Guns? Gold?

I'm brainstorming because I'm in between all of these with spare cash, but I don't trust the market at all. I could see a big drop coming next year. Also, I'm wondering if the more likely scenario is that we turn into Japan and just have a stagnant economy for 20 years or so if there isn't a brutal crash. Just trying to consider the options all in between the potential for crash, just a big correction, or pull back but economic stagnation due to the fact that taxes are high, regulation is high, and jobs are just not what they used to be for a majority of people.

[sonoran_]

I'm in a similar position, I have 28k student debt, but the interest wont start until April 2017. Its tough because I want to travel, purchase firearms, invest, but it would be better if all was put on hold to pay the loans off.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

I converted almost all my investments to cash or near cash equivalents. Per my financial adviser I am being too pessimistic. However, I see too many major issues. The two biggies (for me):

1. IMHO the Federal Reserve re-inflated the housing bubble. There will be another housing crash (but not as dramatic as the one in 2007 to 2009).
2. I don't see a strong growth in productivity and profits to justify the run up in stock prices. To me, I think this market is being driven by stimulus. I won't be surprised if the market is down 20+ this time next year..

I have been buying some physical gold, silver, and platinum. Small amounts only for now. I don't look at the metals as an investment... more of something to use if we enter a really shit hitting the fan moment.

[DamienCasanova]

Accelerated Lead

But seriously...bullets can't be a bad investment considering the precious metal values rising and future scarcity from possible legislation.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

(08-29-2016 12:29 PM)sonoran_ Wrote:  

I'm in a similar position, I have 28k student debt, but the interest wont start until April 2017. Its tough because I want to travel, purchase firearms, invest, but it would be better if all was put on hold to pay the loans off.

Not all debt is bad. However, student loan debt is toxic since it is almost impossible to discharge in bankruptcy. I think it would be a good idea to pay off that $28k, freeing yourself of that future burden. In tough times, it pays to be debt free.

[Spectral_Observer]

Considering the political climate and the Clinton's history with gun control (if she wins, they're good as gone), probably best to start off buying guns.

[Kaii]

(08-29-2016 12:41 PM)Spectral_Observer Wrote:  

Considering the political climate and the Clinton's history with gun control (if she wins, they're good as gone), probably best to start off buying guns.

Let's not fear monger. No president is going to be able to abolish the second amendment. Even if they tried, we would just buy our guns illegally. The part of the population in the US who likes to be armed, will still be so. Don't put too much stock in this sentiment.

[Spectral_Observer]

(08-29-2016 12:48 PM)Kaii Wrote:  

Let's not fear monger. No president is going to be able to abolish the second amendment. Even if they tried, we would just buy our guns illegally. The part of the population in the US who likes to be armed, will still be so. Don't put too much stock in this sentiment.

It's not that she's going to get rid of the 2A, she'll be more likely to usher in an assault weapons ban 2.0 and I don't know if you read Feinstein's updated version of the AWB she proposed after Sandy Hook but it practically banned all semi-auto weapons currently on the market.

[Constitution45]

This thread applies to me although I am currently based in the U.K. I am looking into buying assets that can lead to trickles of investment. Housing in the U.K seems to be a no go, well mainly in South East England. I was looking overseas, buying in a poor region but beautiful part of Europe and look after it during the summers, however corruption in Southern and Eastern Europe could make that a very risky investment.

Any ideas or solutions I will be listening to. Too many people in our generation are interested in consumables and are not thinking about the long term.

[Going strong]

(08-29-2016 01:05 PM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

This thread applies to me although I am currently based in the U.K. I am looking into buying assets that can lead to trickles of investment. Housing in the U.K seems to be a no go, well mainly in South East England. I was looking overseas, buying in a poor region but beautiful part of Europe and look after it during the summers, however corruption in Southern and Eastern Europe could make that a very risky investment.

Any ideas or solutions I will be listening to. Too many people in our generation are interested in consumables and are not thinking about the long term.

I was looking overseas, buying in a poor region but beautiful part of Europe and look after it during the summers: if you want to buy property in Spain, now is the time to do it, don't wait another year, prices have been slowly going up for like 18 months, and are accelerating.
No legal insecurity at all. Clear and fast notarial procedures. You just need a NIE.

[TheOllam]

Start a business entity so you can begin writing off certain expenses.

If you have a full time job and a part time business you can legitimately write off a portion of your cell phone bill, transportation expenses or a computer because it was used towards your business. Then you get a bigger tax refund.

If you succeed, you build a business! If you fail, you lower your tax liabilities. Simply reducing your tax liabilities is a way to retain more personal wealth long term. From there you can find assets like real estate / rentals / air bnb to store your wealth and again find ways to reduce tax liabilities.

[Foolsgo1d]

For the UK guys here is some property related information because the roof over your head is incredibly important for you. I hope

Do Not Rent unless it is nowhere near 50% of your monthly income.. There is a rent and house price creep ongoing and getting higher as time goes on and this is not just inside the M25 area and southern shires. Manchester is seeing rediculous rent increases for pitiful plots that have no parking. Parking spots in and around Manchester CC are now worth 15k or more as an example.

Now if you're into Buy-To-Let you should be snapping up property in Manchester and Leeds. Lots of Uni students but generation rent is a real thing. Mainly a lot of people from London are leaving there and moving north and they bring with them the 2 million war chests.

Estate agents are once again over-hyping the market IMO.

Right now Manchester is going to undergo a rapid development cycle of high-rise apartment buildings with more planned. There is a 61 storey shared apartment-commercial building yet to be built alongside the other 40-50 storey buildings being developed within the next 5 years.

[Plus Oultre]

(08-29-2016 01:53 PM)TheOllam Wrote:  

Start a business entity so you can begin writing off certain expenses.

If you have a full time job and a part time business you can legitimately write off a portion of your cell phone bill, transportation expenses or a computer because it was used towards your business. Then you get a bigger tax refund.

If you succeed, you build a business! If you fail, you lower your tax liabilities. Simply reducing your tax liabilities is a way to retain more personal wealth long term. From there you can find assets like real estate / rentals / air bnb to store your wealth and again find ways to reduce tax liabilities.

Good answer and even better way thinking. Not all your investments are material. I recommend investing in knowledge and in the short to near term, knowledge that you can put to use right away in the way of making money. A second occupation, thus you start your business at the same time. You can't write off the education you take for switching trades but yes you can deduct all continuing education. Also, you invest all that you can back into the business; then you attain relatively low taxes and grow your business. Very important to pick a trade you really enjoy doing. Just my words.

[username]

(08-29-2016 12:17 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

Guns

(08-29-2016 12:36 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  

cash or near cash equivalents
...
physical gold, silver

(08-29-2016 12:38 PM)DamienCasanova Wrote:  

bullets

(08-29-2016 01:53 PM)TheOllam Wrote:  

Start a business entity so you can begin writing off certain expenses.

(08-29-2016 02:08 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

you should be snapping up property

I've done all of these in the last six months except the business part, I've had that for awhile. I was so cash heavy that I bought some properties and those now make up about 20% of my net worth.

Recently bought a hand gun and about $500 in bullets not really as an investment but just important to have on hand.

I've bought a lot of gold and silver lately but still only makes up a tiny part of my net worth. I don't really see gold and silver as an investment but more of an insurance policy. I could always sell it, cut expenses, and live for several years off of it. More likely what I would do if things really did hit the fan would be to take most of the gold and silver and trade for highly discounted businesses that I know would rebound eventually. When SHTF nearly everything goes on sale.

Don't ignore TheOllam's suggestion. My tax rate last year was ridiculously low because of how my business and personal finances are structured. Sure I pay a CPA some big bucks but they work with good sized corporations and know how to make things works good for their clients. About 25% of the gas I buy, 10% of the restaurants I go to, 50% of the repairs on my car, 100% of my computers and equipment that are all used for my business are billed to the company and depreciated.

[Kid Twist]

(08-29-2016 12:36 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  

I converted almost all my investments to cash or near cash equivalents. Per my financial adviser I am being too pessimistic. However, I see too many major issues. The two biggies (for me):

1. IMHO the Federal Reserve re-inflated the housing bubble. There will be another housing crash (but not as dramatic as the one in 2007 to 2009).
2. I don't see a strong growth in productivity and profits to justify the run up in stock prices. To me, I think this market is being driven by stimulus. I won't be surprised if the market is down 20+ this time next year..

I have been buying some physical gold, silver, and platinum. Small amounts only for now. I don't look at the metals as an investment... more of something to use if we enter a really shit hitting the fan moment.

I'm with you 100%. I'm into keeping cash also on the side because I don't trust how a lot of these banks also say "You have to give us xyz notice to have us give you your money" lol wtf

[General Stalin]

This thread is reminding me that I should register my music studio as a proper business and sign off my rent, utilities, and other various living expenses. I could write off groceries for feeding my clients. That would save me a big bit of money annually...

I have a friend who invests in firearms and ammo. It's actually a pretty solid racket as long as you know what you're getting into. Requires a lot of research obviously, but a lot of stuff He's got has become banned/limited since and they are worth sometimes up to 10x what he originally purchased them for.

[Khan]

The oil price is currently pretty low - it's on lowest levels in 13 years. That's something you might consider. I doubt it can go much lower than current levels, and there is a real possibility it will rise in the near future. This is why you might think of investing in oil companies' stock, or find a petrocurrency (for example CAD, NOK) to invest your savings in.

I believe the US Presidential election this year will have a long-term impact on the oil price. There are two possibilities:

1) Trump victory. His platform calls for more fossil fuel development, which means less regulation for oil companies etc. In that case, the price of oil could remain a current levels due to an increase in US production, but the value of oil stocks will increase.

2) Clinton victory. Hillary wants to curb fossil fuel utilization and invest in clean energy. In that case, the value of oil stocks won't increase, but...there's always a but. Hillary is an aggressive warmonger. Look at the US-led intervention in Libya in 2011, which was her brainchild. If she becomes the next POTUS, the odds of a major geopolitical disaster happening in the Middle East rise considerably. That itself could drive the oil price higher.

I wouldn't invest in real estate unless it's in a very good location and you can rent it for a hefty sum. Otherwise it's just not worth it in my opinion.

[Glaucon]

I think I stay cash until the next stock market crash, then buy a handful of SP500/DOW and hold until the next. Have some gold too for emergency and its shiny.

[The Beast1]

I rode the bubble up and went to all cash back in jan/feb. I'm waiting for the next big "pop" to occur before I rush back in. My biggest mistake was missing out on the 07-2012 ride up. Too young to know better.

Real estate in the UK is a f*cking joke. I'd rather invest in American rentals. Even then, the cost of most property is over valued.

Gut feeling and conjecture:
I really think TPTB will cause a market crash when Hillary becomes unelectable for whatever reason. They'll blame it on "Trump" being a wild card and people losing confidence in American markets. This will set the stage for a good cleansing and the next massive bubble up which will lead to sovereign debt defaults since so many foreign loans are priced in dollars.

[tawm]

I have a few AR-15 lower receivers (complete and blank), and several completed guns ready to sell. Whether Hillary wins or not, the price of guns will skyrocket.

[Deadlift]

I agree now is definitely the time to buy guns. We are living in the golden age of the AR-15. Anything considered an "assault weapon" will probably never be less expensive than right now. I just ordered a new BCM upper receiver yesterday in anticipation of the panic buying shortages and price increases.

[WeekendCasanova]

(08-29-2016 12:36 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  

I converted almost all my investments to cash or near cash equivalents. Per my financial adviser I am being too pessimistic. However, I see too many major issues. The two biggies (for me):

1. IMHO the Federal Reserve re-inflated the housing bubble. There will be another housing crash (but not as dramatic as the one in 2007 to 2009).
2. I don't see a strong growth in productivity and profits to justify the run up in stock prices. To me, I think this market is being driven by stimulus. I won't be surprised if the market is down 20+ this time next year..

I have been buying some physical gold, silver, and platinum. Small amounts only for now. I don't look at the metals as an investment... more of something to use if we enter a really shit hitting the fan moment.

Kills me. Everytime I see someone doing this, I die a little inside. I try to avoid these threads for a reason. Your money is crying out for help. Don't let it die!

[jj90]

I have to agree with WeekendCasanova here. I'm hedged out vs Mad Max with firearms and ammo but owning precious metals is a no go. In a true apocalypse scenario canned food, gas, ammo and a firearm is gonna take you a lot further than some gold.

Ask yourself if there is any real true value in a SHTF scenario in which PMs are really gonna pull thru for you? The guy you are bartering ammo for gold is more then likely to just take it from you.

I see 1 real use for PMs. They are fairly portable as a store of value. Wanna move 1 mil by wire? There's a paper(electronic) trail. 1M in gold is actually fairly portable.