[Edelweiss]

A "facebook" friend of mine posted the following Rio 2016: Adam van Koeverden blasts rower Adam Kreek, media over ‘sexist’ coverage

And he commented saying: I like this guy.

The following is the exchange which ensued between me and his SJW friends, attacking me on all fronts after my initial response.

Here is the whole log.

You'll notice that every one comes and throws a tantrum to which I respond with reason and facts. And the person nevers comes back except the Adam dude.

But then another one comes and the same happens, they just can't respond to my reasoning.

This was the first time I really engage with SJW's outside the small chitchats. I usually don't waste much time on this because it's futile. I now totally understand how Roosh felt and many of you too.

This my first comment. The rest is really long.

EDELWEISS Pfff white knights and social justice warriors everywhere...
When the media calls neymar out for his party lifestyle, it's perfectly fine. But when an athlete criticises, and rightly so, Bouchard for her bad performances (she has been bad for the last 3 years) we point fingers and use the magic words: sexist (and all its derivatives)
Typical leftist-liberal hypocrisy.

Jordan  He wasn't simply and solely commenting on her athletic performances. He was also making unnecessary assumptions about her social media activity and how he thinks she appears to the masses as someone other than an athlete. This is sexist ideology and it doesn't need to exist. That's basically it.

EDELWEISS It's not sexist it's reality. She does waste time and energy on her social antics and her athletic performances do not back it up.
It's not sexist, it's facts.
When you stop thinking emotionally and start thinking rationally, you'll understand.

Pele said the same thing about Neymar years ago. He said if he stops caring more about his hairstyle and starts concentrating on his football he'll be a superstar. No one called Pele sexist.

Today's society is just crippled with political correctness, rampant hypocrisy and toxic feminism.

I don't care if you feel offended, your emotions don't mean anything. I reason with facts.

Jordan Neymar isn't constantly (unfairly) sexualized like women, such as Bouchard, are. Women are constantly sexualized and subordinated in all facets of society, not just sports. Sexism is everywhere. You don't see it, I get it. But don't insult me by saying I'm not reasoning with facts or blame my point of views on "emotions". (Also thinly veiled sexist language btw)

Sexism is real. It's in sports, it's everywhere, and ignorance perpetuates it. If you don't see that, it's your choice and it's pointless to continue debating something that someone doesn't actually believes exists.

Danielle EDELWEISS Your adjectives are rather emotional, n'est ce pas? Toxic feminism doesn't sound like a fact to this bitch.

EDELWEISS Jordan  Oh sexism exists, I don't deny it. However nowadays almost everything slightly politically incorrect has it's trademark label: sexit, racist, homophobic, antisemite, anti-muslim...especially when one can't find rational arguments against it. So the big words come out.

Any opinion which someone doesn't like is vehemently labeled as such.
Sexism exists, I admit, the only difference is that you see it everywhere.


EDELWEISS Danielle  It's not. Feminism, when it started was right and noble cause.
However, in the western world, it has done it's job. 
Today's western feminism's aim is to put the man down instead of elevating the woman. This is toxic.

Feminist movements should rather concentrate on women's rights in islamic and arab countries were women need it. 
But hey, you don't dare to go there, do you ?

Jordan  EDELWEISS lol, stop it.

EDELWEISS Jordan  I'm actually enjoying myself. I'm surprised OP didn't unfriend me yet. Usually "tolerant" liberals who chat with me and run out of arguments end up labeling me with one of the trademarks and unfriend me. So fair play to OP.

Oh and Danielle , talking like a ghetto dude doesn't make you look like a strong independent woman, it just makes you look vulgar.

Kate  EDELWEISS it's not your fault that you are unwilling to acknowledge sexism. We've grown up in a society that perpetuates sexism but if you call someone on it, you are being too PC or emotional. Adam Kreek is a rower, not a tennis player so his opinionsmean about as much as mine on the sport, and his criticisms weren't on her abilities or performance in the games, he was shaming her for using social media, choosing to wear her hair a certain way, getting endorsement deals. So what? Name an athlete who doesn't do that. Why is she any different? She's not and that's the point.

EDELWEISS Kate  It seems you didn't read the whole log, because I did admit that sexism exists, but that you shouldn't cry wolf every time.
As for Kreek (the athlete in the article)not knowing nothing about tennis, he's still a pro athlete who does know quite a lot about what it takes and means to be at this top level, the sacrifice, the discipline, the mental strength, so his opinion is still valid.

Jeremy  This "everything is too PC now, what is the world coming to.." argument is so tiring. People have always been offended by sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. comments and ways of thinking. The only difference now is that there are enough people in the world providing support to give those affected strength to speak up. You absolutely need to call people on their shit every time because that's how you correct bad ways of thinking. Not everyone is a bigot, but almost all of us inherit pieces of these outdated ways of thinking and we need to be big enough people about it to listen to others and make changes in ways of thinking.

Trying to argue from a position of 'facts and logic' in order to defend offensive behavior doesn't really mean much when your facts and logic are bad. When you take away all of the bad 'facts and logic' all you are left with is offensive behavior.

EDELWEISS No, what is tiring is double standards and hypocrisy in society. 
Bouchard got criticised for acting more like a model and less like a tennis players. Well boohoo. 
Let her take criticism like the strong independant woman she is and prove her doubters wrong.

If you find this offensive, man you're in for a tough ride in life.

Jeremy  The argument made by both Pele and Kreek is bad. They are poorly thought out opinions on people who they don't believe can manage a professional training regiment and some personal time. The reason Kreek is getting called out is because female athletes are constantly being looked at this way, and people are getting tired of it. 

Criticize Bouchard all you want for her poor play, but actually criticize her tennis, instead of wasting everyone's time with opinions on how you feel her time on Instagram is making her a bad player.

Thanks for your concern about my well being. From one white male to another, I can really tell you have a broad understand of the challenges life brings.

EDELWEISS Jeremy  "From one white male to another, I can really tell you have a broad understand of the challenges life brings."
Is this "white male privilege" guilt ? 
This is the reason modern feminism is toxic.

I don't know about you man, but I've been here and done that, and I assure you that offending people is the least of my concerns. And to offend me one must really REALLY got to try hard.

Anna  EDELWEISS, feminism has done its job in the western world? That is absurd. I really wish I had time to get into this with you. Please for the love of pearl do some research. You'll find many reasons why feminism needs to exist in the west.

EDELWEISS Anna Yes Anna, it has. And I don't recommend you invest time to try to demonstrate how to me because you will eventually fail. This time could be better invested in fighting for womens' rights where it is needed: in countries where women can't drive, have to cover up from head to toe, have to walk behind their husbands, could be stoned to death for adultery...and so on.
In the west women live in paradise. And modern feminism is making men's life a living hell, emasculating them to the core.
Just look at Jeremy , brainwashed to the bones and hating himself for being a white male.

Jillian EDELWEISS, could you provide a list of all the times you've felt personally victimized by "western feminism"? Surely you have women in your life that you care about—I urge you to take ten minutes to speak with them about their daily experiences in a world where inequality very much still exists on the gender front. Some of mine include the real fear of being assaulted anytime after dark while on my own (see the keys between my knuckles), earning less money than my male counterparts (in the womenswear fashion industry, for god's sake), being stalked by a man when I was 14 years old while walking home from school (the cops' first question: was I wearing a short skirt?), being embarrassed by middle-aged, drunk men for how I looked during family events (this particular one needed to know "who I belonged to"). There are PLENTY where that came from. This isn't paradise, far from it.

Adam "Modern feminism is making men's life a living hell, emasculating them to the core."

Speak for yourself, dude. That very statement, while patently untrue and only believed by "men" who are insecure, pithy, and suffer from a warped view of modern masculinity, is literal proof that feminism has an incredibly necessary place in our current society.

Your words are rife with the blind privilege of someone who has never been paid less for doing the same job as a man, been blamed for suffering a sexual assault "because you shouldn't have been wearing that" while your male attacker gets off scot free, or have had your thoughts, ideas, dreams and drive stifled by a society with a deeply-rooted, systemic preference for the XY chromosome.

The mere fact that you either plug your ears and pretend that the deck isn't stacked against women everywhere OR that you straight-up don't believe that you, me, and every other white man on earth have had an easier ride just because we won some kind of genetic lottery is asinine and sad.

You are quite literally part of the problem. And men like me are getting really sick and tired of boys like you burying their heads in the sand.

Adam Feminists need allies. Not condescension.

Anna To give you one reason: gender pay gap.

EDELWEISS Jillian Paradise doesn't mean it's perfect. Nothing is.
But those incidents you mentioned will never disappear from our societies and feminisme can do nothing against thugs, drunks and perverts.
As for the pay inequality, it's massively overrated. Also, if you can't negotiate your salary well, it's your problem.

I also walk at night with my keys between my fingers.
Little boys are also raped by paedophiles.
It's just not women who fall victims for evil beings.

Also women are physically weaker, and thus make an easier prey.
So stop complaining.
You'd rather live in ISIS controlled territories or in Canada ?

Jillian Adam 100%. Grateful for dudes like you, OP, Jeremy and Jordan. And obviously all the badass babes who contributed to this conversation.

EDELWEISS Anna Learn how to negotiate your salary

EDELWEISS Adam Why don't you hang yourself in shame then, since you're unlucky to be born a white male ?
Easy ride you say ? Tell this to the millions of soldiers who died on the battlefields so you can have the freedom to say what you're saying.

Adam Anna! Hear that? All you have to do is negotiate your salary better! Wow EDELWEISS, you totally just saved the day. Who knew it could really just be that easy to undo several hundred years of gender inequality.

EDELWEISS Adam It's not about gender. I used to be paid like shit in one of my jobs. I worked hard and smart, negotiated a raise and doubled my income.
Stop playing the victim and do the work.

Adam EDELWEISS Why would I hang myself in shame when I can stand up for the women in my life instead? Try to make a positive change instead of trying to rationalize the way things are as being "okay?" Your arguments are insane.

Joe holy shit... I thought I had off-color opinions...

EDELWEISS Adam Women don't need white knights to stand for them. They're doing fine. They are strong and independant.

They need strong men who will fight for preservation of western culture which enables them to be free, not import hordes of immigrants who have ZERO respect for women.

They need men who will stand against the politicians who are destroying western civilisation.

But I digress...

Adam EDELWEISS But it IS about gender. It really, truly, super duper is. And it has been for a very, very, very long time.

Your digression is very telling, to be honest. Totally explains how you've gone from anti-feminism to "preserving Western culture" (whatever that even means) within the matter of 3 posts.

I'm not trying to be some kind of white knight. I'm just validating and supporting the very real issues that still plague women in this so-called "modern age" of ours. And I find it extremely vile and off-putting that I still have to have conversations like this with people like you in 2016.

EDELWEISS Adam You don't have to have this conversation. You just joined in.

And yes preserving western civilisation is of the utmost importance for the feminist cause and women, because if our civilisation collapses, you can bet everything that women will have it the hardest.
Women, LGBT, you name it.

It's western civilisation that the "vile" Patriarchy built which allows women to be free and enjoy life the way they are doing it today.

If this collapses, it's back to the dark ages. And then women will really NEED men for protection.

I'm from Europe and it's already happening.

Jeremy Brainwashed into thinking what? That all people should be treated equally and we should acknowledge the problems around us?

I don't hate myself for being a white male, but I can recognize the advantages I have from that and can acknowledge that even though I've been there and done that too, I still can't speak for the experiences of all people.

I know you're having fun getting everyone worked up, and you should recognize that is part of your privilege. No one is calling you a terrorist or making derogatory comments to you in response to any of your comments.

Adam Yikes, EDELWEISS. Who's the white knight now?

Yeah. I guess I could've just let you ramble on about your dismissive views (and now your vaguely racist "collapse of everything we hold dear" mentality), but it's fun to debate with someone whose mindset is this far removed from my (read: everyone else on this thread's) own. Ya know, to get a glimpse of what life in the upside-down looks like.

EDELWEISS Jeremy Like I said, words don't affect me. You can call me whatever you like, it's like music to my ears. It's not about privilege.
Emotions mean nothing, I reason with facts.
Yes it's easier to be born in Canada than Iraq. But that's because your forebears built this country the way it is.

And it's your duty to pay respect to your forebears and be proud of who you descend from, who you are, and not carry it as a burden.

EDELWEISS Adam Oh it took quite a lot of comments for the racist card to be played. Congratulations.

I am for protecting women when they are in real danger.
If you want to help the women, fight for society to remain free and keep the values which enable this freedom intact.

If this sounds racist to you, you're a lost cause.

And yes everyone here agrees with you because sheeps move in herds.

Jeremy You're mixing up the term "facts" with "opinons". You haven't stated any real facts, but whatever.

You do understand that our world view has grown immensely since our forbears built this/or any country. Paying respect to them means adapting their ideas for the modern world.

Adam EDELWEISS Finally something we can agree on!

I would love nothing more than to be completely and utterly lost from whatever "cause" you seem to believe in. Your cause is not, and will not, ever be mine.
Good luck with your fight to defend western values from all the evildoers hellbent on destroying our free and righteous way of life! We're all counting on you!

EDELWEISS Jeremy s My opinions are not based on emotions. They are based on the reality of what's happening.
The western doesn't need feminism today, it is needed elsewhere and this is a FACT.

White male have a privilege? What about white women ? They have never had an easier ride in history of mankind...and that's a FACT (thanks to the early feminism movements).
Now they must help other women in really oppressed nations to benefit from the same instead of fighting the "evil" white man who actually contributed in them having the ability to live this privileged lifestyle.

EDELWEISS Adam And when our values get diluted and lost, women will definitely NOT count on you. They will need real men willing to get their hands dirty. not some coward like you who will be afraid to stand up against immigrants for fear of being called a racist.

Bobby  This is the same dude who has used his Olympic medal status to date 80% of the women in this city. Given that he finished waaaay back in every event but one in London 2012 and his Olympic gold is now 12 years old, at least now he can play the "we are all feminists" card in his dating profile moving forward.

EDELWEISS "This is the same dude who has used his Olympic medal status to date 80% of the women in this city"
So you're blaming the dude for dating all the women (fair play to him) and not being surprised by the fact that 80% of the women in his city are gold diggers ?
God, Canada needs some testosterone-enhancement national policy.

Bobby  I'm calling him on his pro-feminist media play when his social activities might suggest otherwise. 

And yep, testosterone is exactly what this country needs. And increase military spending; we need to be breeding more meatheads like you if we're ever going to get to the top of the heap. And how about we piss off some foreign countries while we're at it? Canada is so lost right now.

EDELWEISS Ok, fair enough, the guy is acting with hypocrisy.
But I bet that he supports "feminism" to have a media-approved polished image and not piss off the establishment, all the while living like a normal guy would do in private. 
Saying I'm pro feminism, pro mass immigration, bla bla gets you public sympathy and lucrative deals.
Saying the contrary will ruin your career.

Also, dating women makes you anti-feminist ?

I'm not going to comment on the rest of your answer because it has no valid arguments, just sheer emotional over-reaction.

OP  (commenting on the canada needs more testosterone comment I made)No, we don't. We're not as insecure as you.

EDELWEISS OP, I know you're a smart person, I expected more from you than a typical no-argument-just-finger-pointing response.

[Edelweiss]

tl;dr

I find the amount of denial and delusion that these people live in quite astonishing. I never thought it's that bad. I though it was an exaggeration, or only limited to radical feminists.

But I know the OP, he's a genuinely cool guy. And the fact that his social circle are that brainwashed and fanatical was shocking.

The "men" even more so than the women.

[IvanDrago]

Holy mother of fuck!

[Horus]

This is not a very productive way to spend your day. What did you achieve as a result of this exchange? Did you change anyone's mind? Assuming this happened yesterday, in the time you were bitching on the internet, I cooked breakfast, cooked a stew for dinner in the slow cooker, fixed the mud guard on my car, swept and mopped my apartment, met a friend for lunch and a beer, jerked off, watched a movie, ironed my shirts, read a book by the pool, and then invited my Filipino fuck buddy to come over for dinner.

Priorities.

[Edelweiss]

True Horus, guilty as charged.

I lost at least 2-3 hours. I was just absorbed by the discussion which I think was quite interesting hence me sharing it here with you guys.
But I definitely don't recommend wasting time like this.

Cheers.

[Germanicus]

It's Canada, man. My country is completely fucked. The majority of people are either outright Marxists or utter servile cucks. There's no making a middle class white Canadian see reason or wisdom. They have the capacity for neither due to the Canadian education system and the far left Canadian media plus leftist American media warping their minds.

Minus a Russian invasion and occupation the only way this is going to be corrected is by the alt-right becoming a major long-term cultural force in the United States beginning in the upcoming Trump administration. If that evil, and now physically diseased bitch Hillary wins the election I will either leave the country or dig in locally and prepare for war.

[DJ-Matt]

Yes it might have been a waste of your time, but I'm glad every once in a while someone is willing to wage a fight. This is how red-pillers find each other. Our attitudes are so rare they stick out bigtime.

[Germanicus]

(08-16-2016 02:41 PM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  

Yes it might have been a waste of your time, but I'm glad every once in a while someone is willing to wage a fight. This is how red-pillers find each other. Our attitudes are so rare they stick out bigtime.

Yeah, every so often it's good to fly the flag and let the Social Justice scum know that yes, not everyone is on board with their program. The look of shock and non-comprehension on their faces as their tiny little minds try to process that somebody could be and is seriously in opposition to their operant conditioning is funny. I don't bother arguing with them with facts much. I just quickly mock and insult them and leave them triggered as I walk away with a sneer and a smirk.

[Surreyman]

(08-16-2016 03:21 PM)Germanicus Wrote:  

(08-16-2016 02:41 PM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  

Yes it might have been a waste of your time, but I'm glad every once in a while someone is willing to wage a fight. This is how red-pillers find each other. Our attitudes are so rare they stick out bigtime.

Yeah, every so often it's good to fly the flag and let the Social Justice scum know that yes, not everyone is on board with their program. The look of shock and non-comprehension on their faces as their tiny little minds try to process that somebody could be and is seriously in opposition to their operant conditioning is funny. I don't bother arguing with them with facts much. I just quickly mock and insult them and leave them triggered as I walk away with a sneer and a smirk.

This is it man.

Think to yourself: WWDD?

What Would the Donald Do?

[RedPillUK]

I didn't read it all, but a few things:

1. You keep talking about debating based on facts not emotions. That's only partly true and it doesn't help you to mention it. It is more likely to turn people against you, by making yourself seem above them. These people have a strong ideological, religious belief in what they are saying. They do not even realise their arguments are based on emotions. It is similiar to atheists arguing with religious people about God.

2. It is much easier, quicker and less confrontational to debate politics in real life. Most people, especially weak minded liberals and women, will get triggered but are less likely to completely melt down in person if they realise you are well intentioned. Behind a computer screen people are more likely to feel safe and tough enough to get angry at you and call you names. Their small amygdalas cannot handle it.

3. Idiots on the wrong side of history like to 'debate' by constantly moving the goalposts and changing the argument. If you make a good point, they will just say "yeah but.. what about [unrelated event]!!" It is tiresome trying to explain to them that one Breivik shooting is not equal to all the Muslim terrorist attacks. This is why it goes on so long and wastes so much of your time.
If you have to debate them, force them to stick on the same point by constantly repeating it and not allowing the subject to change. This will make it a lot shorter. Or just mock them mercilessly to everyone else. Do NOT allow them to constantly dictate the conversation by letting them bring in new 'arguments.'

4. A Scott Adams trick of persuasion is to rephrase your statements into leading questions. It forces people to actually think about what you're saying and encourages them to agree with you. "Don't you think she could have spent that time on social media training?"

5. After the third message when someone tried to lecture you about all the varieties and subtleties of sexism, I would have stopped from any debate right there. That person is an idiot and hopeless. You will never find common ground with someone as naive as that. The only thing you can do is that point is mock her and lose your friends.

[RBerkley]

You're in France (or to make it more insane a territory of France overseas), and yet Canadian SJW from Toronto spoiled ya day with SJW stuff like Wage Gap, Wape Culture & all of that?

Canadian SJWs= International SJW post-humus book by Henry Ford?

There is no use debating with Canadian SJWs, especially if they are from Toronto. On the other hand, if Toronto SJW women are infesting Paris, France with the feminist garbage, then by all means defend the European women from that Toronto filth agenda.

No way France gonna turn into DEFCOCK 1 like Canada unless France turns into 100& SJW, not "Marxism", but "SJW" which is gender Marxism concentrated with snobby neo-Victorian Anglocunts and Cuckservativism.

[Glaucon]

Don't argue with stupid, just unfriend them.

[ed pluribus unum]

(08-16-2016 03:40 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:  

3. Idiots on the wrong side of history like to 'debate' by constantly moving the goalposts and changing the argument. If you make a good point, they will just say "yeah but.. what about [unrelated event]!!" It is tiresome trying to explain to them that one Breivik shooting is not equal to all the Muslim terrorist attacks. This is why it goes on so long and wastes so much of your time.
If you have to debate them, force them to stick on the same point by constantly repeating it and not allowing the subject to change. This will make it a lot shorter. Or just mock them mercilessly to everyone else. Do NOT allow them to constantly dictate the conversation by letting them bring in new 'arguments.'

This. Cucktastic beta-chump I work with is exhibit A in this regard; if I address some retarded comment he makes about (for example) gun control, within 30 seconds he's going on about how the founding fathers were all slave owners or Trump has been personally bankrupt several times.

[Edelweiss]

I don't usually like to argue, because it's very unlikely to convert anyone. You point to the sky and say it's blue, yet they still insist that it's not blue but green.

You can see by my low post count that I am a man of few words.

However, in this particular situation, I was NEVER expecting that. They just kept coming at it with these delusional arguments.
The fact that I continued talking to them is that, one after the other they disappeared, having no more arguments.
This made me feel like I made my case to a point where they realised that they can't prove me wrong...

I don't know if deep inside they saw that I was right and couldn't admit it and thus stopped arguing. I like to give them the benefit of doubt.

[Brother Abdul Majeed]

I learned a while ago that arguing with feminists (or any other specialkin) is a waste of time and it's a bigger waste of time if they are Canadian on top of that. Canadian society has shielded these people from reality for too long and their opinions are reinforced by our national media (CBC is the Liberal party propaganda arm - its unbearable to listen to or watch) and our private media who arse-lick their way to ratings and funding.

I don't need to argue with them and prove that they are wrong, reality will do that for me. The cognitive dissonance that these people live with cause them to be miserable and twisted. You can already see the effects it has on Canadian (and most western) women, it's like a mental illness that sweeps over the population - even the thought of a Trump presidency has women physically ill. They are unhappy, but are incapable of looking inwards to find the source of their unhappiness, instead they just point their fingers at men. I'm just happy that they know a forum like this exists and that it really gets under their skin, whereas I've determined that nothing they do will get under mine and taken the appropriate steps to shield myself from them.

There isn't enough tax money in the world to keep western women happy and the capabilities of western nations to earn that kind of money has severely eroded in the last 2 decades. There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the future when programs are cut and our standard of living declines further. Prepare yourself for even angrier and more irrational women and SJWs to come.

[Sidney Crosby]

So basically..... Toronto is for feminists and faggots.

[eatthishomie]

[cascadecombo]

[XPQ22]

Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty.

Besides, the pig likes it.

- George Bernard Shaw

Oh, and definitely don't argue with random feminists in the real world, if they know who you are. As they're primarily big cowards, they'll sometimes pretend to see some wisdom in your words. "Well, I don't agree with you, but I'm glad we had the opportunity to exchange ideas" they may politely say. Haha don't buy it - once they get behind the safety of their computer screens the Twitter/Facebook doxxing, naming and shaming rage attack will begin.

Like that crazy famous feminist lady from another thread who was triggered by some innocuous comment a TV interviewer made, didn't say a thing about it at the time, and then ran home to rip her clothes off and start scrawling #FUCK YOU so-and-so #FUCKTHEPATRIARCHY all over her naked torso for the benefit of social media. Sort of the MO you're dealing with, in general. Conflict is only worthwhile if you can extract "likes" from it.

I'm not dumb enough to believe my eloquent oratory skills will ever have any impact, but I've seen it happen. Don't give 'em any material - every manosphere word you spout at them is you acting as a human male "like" generator.

If you really really feel the need to argue with a feminist, I'd suggest fucking her a few times first.