[Matsufubu]

Also, Pope Urban II had the best European self defence.

[spokepoker]

I'm American, so when I see self defense, I think of an armed the populace.
So my answer would be arming towns for their own good, training them in the mindset of protecting their community without having to rely on the police force. Maybe setting up "Hunting Club" in each town, free membership to all native residents, membership requiring mandatory "hunting" classes on proper firearm handling, mechanical exercises, etc.
Actual armament of the citizens would probably be on the illegal side, I have ideas for that, but I don't know enough about the laws to discuss circumvention (plus I'm pretty sure I'd get banned for that).

edit; kind of like this firearm that was specifically designed to not violate any BATFE regs:

[BortimusPrime]

Even if you were allowed to concealed carry in Europe, it wouldn't be worth trying to have a gun battle if Muslims barge in with AKs. The best defense is standing near an emergency exit.

[kaotic]

As far rifles go this is a good place to start to see what you can buy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_o...pean_Union

This is subject to national and local regulation as well.

Quote:

France

Main article: Gun politics in France
In France, to buy a firearm, a hunting licence or a shooting sport license is necessary. All semi-automatic rifles with a capacity greater than 3 rounds, all handguns and all rifles chambered in 'military' calibres, including bolt action, require permits. These are known as B1, B2 and B4 type permits. Firearms are divided into eight categories that determine the regulations that apply to their possession and use. France also sets limits on the number of cartridges that can be kept at home (1000 rounds per gun).

The total number of firearms owned by an individual is also subject to limits (not possible to have more than 12 authorizations/permits on B1, B2 and B4 type firearms).[85] As of September, 2013, France has a capacity limit of 20 rounds for handguns;[86] one needs a permit for category one[clarification needed] semi-automatics that have a capacity greater than 3 rounds. Fully automatic firearms are illegal for civilian ownership.

Germany

Main article: Gun legislation in Germany
Gun ownership in Germany is regulated by the Federal Weapons Act (German: Waffengesetz), 1972; it extends previous gun legislation. It is considered a restrictive law.[87] Under this act Germany maintains a two-tier policy to firearm ownership.

A firearms ownership license allows for the purchasing of weapons by those over the age of 18 who meet various competency/trustworthiness guidelines. Convicted felons, those with a mental disability or those deemed unreliable are denied licenses. To get a license issued it is also required to prove the necessity of owning a gun, while self-defense is not an accepted reason to own a gun. Owners of multiple firearms need separate ownership licenses for every single firearm they own. For shooters it is necessary to be a member of a shooting club for more than one year. Furthermore, within the last 12 months, a visit to a shooting club must be recorded no fewer than 18 times.

The second tier is a firearms carry permit which allows concealed carry in public. The permits are usually only issued to individuals with a particular need; such as persons at risk, money couriers, etc.

The laws apply to any weapons with a fire energy exceeding 7.5 Joule.

Several weapons and special ammunitions are completely prohibited. To these belong for example automatic firearms and weapons of war, as well as weapons like Brass knuckles, Switchblades, Balisongs, Nunchakus or Tasers. Buying, possessing, lending, using, carrying, crafting, altering and trading of these weapons is illegal and punishable by up to five years imprisonment, confiscation of the weapon and a fine of up to €10,000. Using an illegal weapon for crime of any kind is punishable by from 1 to 10 years imprisonment.

Germany's National Gun Registry introduced at the end of 2012 counted 5.5 million firearms legally owned by 1.4 million people. (31. December 2013) people in the country.[88]

[weambulance]

(07-26-2016 05:32 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

Even if you were allowed to concealed carry in Europe, it wouldn't be worth trying to have a gun battle if Muslims barge in with AKs. The best defense is standing near an emergency exit.

I would probably not try to stand and fight if I could get away, if I was being attacked by people with rifles and I just had a pistol, especially if I had family with me. But at least I would have a chance if the only way out was through the bad guys, and if I was in the right spot to act it's possible I could end the attack on the spot.

Sprinkle a whole bunch of people with guns in the crowd and odds get pretty good that someone will be in a good position to act immediately when some crazy fuck gets froggy.

[LeeEnfield303]

(07-26-2016 05:32 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

Even if you were allowed to concealed carry in Europe, it wouldn't be worth trying to have a gun battle if Muslims barge in with AKs. The best defense is standing near an emergency exit.

Very true. Much, much better to die quietly and not cause anyone any trouble.

[hydrogonian]

Home protection:

Crossbow, though difficult to get off a second shot.

They're also making big-bore pellet guns these days that will launch a projectile for between 130 and 170 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle, which is roughly the energy of a .32 to .380 caliber bullet. From what I've seen, you'll get 3 to 6 good shots per filled air canister, and then about that many shots with reduced energy. Though, I think that you might have to load it before each shot. Not sure though.

An honest-to-god samurai sword actually isn't bad, assuming that you aren't seen too far away from an intruder with a gun. You may be able to close the distance before he gets off a shot faster than you think.

Bean-bag gun?

Bear spray?

Pellet gun filled with mace pellets?

Shrunken!

[Leonard D Neubache]

(07-26-2016 03:17 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

Duplicate thread:

thread-57247.html

Maybe the mods should merge the threads and title it something to the effect of "European street defense".

The trouble with these threads is that they have a tendency to stray from their purpose.

As for "terrorists with AKs, no point in learning self defence or carrying a knife etc etc", we just saw a priest beheaded in front of his congregation by a pair of savages armed with nothing more than knives.

You might swan through life untouched. You might be sitting in a restaurant when a bomb goes off and turns you into kibble.

The reality is that there are a million shades of grey between those two outcomes. If open warfare breaks out then your fate is going to be largely dictated by others. Until that time plan for a world that's going to look more and more like Detroit or Baghdad. Chances are you're still going to have to go to work day in, day out, one way or another, so get fit, get trained, and get armed the best way you can.

That kind of shit is basic man-game anyway, and it's been neglected by most of us for too long.

[weambulance]

I agree, carrying an obvious weapon is a bad idea if it's illegal.

A sturdy cane or walking stick is quite effective and pretty easy to use with minimal training, but of course it's a pain in the ass to cart one around.

I like the chain and lock idea, who's going to hassle you about a bike lock? But it's a more difficult weapon to use than a basic stick.

A similar low key option is wearing a relatively light fabric belt, like a nylon web belt that's pretty flexible, with flat weights sewn into the buckle end. Whip someone with 4 ounces of metal on the end of a 3 foot belt and they're going to feel it (note - hitting someone in the head with a weight on a rope can cause serious damage or death). Can be be explained/excused as ornamentation, if you use brass/copper discs or similar. Lead could be sewn directly into the belt core but that might count as an illegal sap or something stupid like that.

I wouldn't hesitate to bludgeon someone with a sturdy backpack with a heavy textbook or two in it either, if I had to. The backpack load I carried in college would've taken an attacker down with one swing to the head.

[Leonard D Neubache]

A handy combination at home at the very least would be a replica pistol and a 4 battery mag-light torch.

If confronted in your home you hold the torch at shoulder height and the pistol out in front like so...



I would alter this by having the pistol in your off hand and the torch in your strong one.

This has multiple effects. It allows the intruder to see the pistol but not well enough to determine that it's a fake. The torch being higher than normal throws a spanner in their typical targeting patterns, and if they try their luck anyway then the torch is already in an overhand swinging position and trust me when I say you don't want to get clocked by a metal tube containing 4 Dcell batteries.

[BortimusPrime]

(07-26-2016 06:12 PM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 05:32 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

Even if you were allowed to concealed carry in Europe, it wouldn't be worth trying to have a gun battle if Muslims barge in with AKs. The best defense is standing near an emergency exit.

Very true. Much, much better to die quietly and not cause anyone any trouble.

I'm reminded of that scene in Pulp Fiction where the kid with the handcannon bursts out screaming and unloads the entire cylinder at John Travolta and Samuel L. Jackson, all misses.

My point was that the priority should be for individuals to maximize their own survival rather than try to be a hero.

[weambulance]

Replica pistol you say?

[nomadbrah]

(07-26-2016 06:53 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 03:17 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

Duplicate thread:

thread-57247.html

Maybe the mods should merge the threads and title it something to the effect of "European street defense".

The trouble with these threads is that they have a tendency to stray from their purpose.

As for "terrorists with AKs, no point in learning self defence or carrying a knife etc etc", we just saw a priest beheaded in front of his congregation by a pair of savages armed with nothing more than knives.

You might swan through life untouched. You might be sitting in a restaurant when a bomb goes off and turns you into kibble.

The reality is that there are a million shades of grey between those two outcomes. If open warfare breaks out then your fate is going to be largely dictated by others. Until that time plan for a world that's going to look more and more like Detroit or Baghdad. Chances are you're still going to have to go to work day in, day out, one way or another, so get fit, get trained, and get armed the best way you can.

That kind of shit is basic man-game anyway, and it's been neglected by most of us for too long.

Ah, didn't realize there was a thread already, can just close or merge this.

[nomadbrah]

Ok, I've been thinking about this. There are two scenarios in Europe to deal with. The first is terrorism, which is difficult to predict, but where a ranged weapon or at least a deadly weapon would make all the difference. The second is packs of violent soulmates at which deterrence would make a difference.

I've concluded as a minimum I need some kind of stabbing weapon to carry in pocket and preferably some kind of mid range blunt weapon.

[tom]

Get pretty strong.
Press 1bw, Bench 1.5bw, Squat 2bw, deadlift 2.5bw(I'm still a bit off each of these)
&
Learn good martial art/mma

Those are good things to do anyways.

[hydrogonian]

Oh, for carry? We used to have a good option that rhymes:

Rock in a sock!

Lock in a sock is an acceptable substitute.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(07-26-2016 07:37 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

Replica pistol you say?

Not everyone is Vinnie Jones, or Weambulance for that matter.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(07-26-2016 07:57 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Ok, I've been thinking about this. There are two scenarios in Europe to deal with. The first is terrorism, which is difficult to predict, but where a ranged weapon or at least a deadly weapon would make all the difference. The second is packs of violent soulmates at which deterrence would make a difference.

I've concluded as a minimum I need some kind of stabbing weapon to carry in pocket and preferably some kind of mid range blunt weapon.

Personally I caution against stabbing weapons in favor of heavy, blunt weapons. Stabbing weapons turn a self defense situation into a murder trial with you on the receiving end, and worst of all they don't actually end a fight very quickly. The old adage is that nobody wins a knife fight.

A decent crack to the head with a weaponised cane/umbrella will leave the attacker stunned but not dead. The only real benefit of blades in my opinion is that they're highly concealable.

quickedit: Stabbing weapons are effective against humans like a .308 is effective on a deer. If you ambush the deer and hit their vitals before the adrenalin kicks in then the fight is over. Obviously most of us are not going to be sticking a knife in the back of a casually resting mugger so that's why I think stabbing weapons are unsuited for the kind of thing we're talking about.

[RawGod]

What's the utility of "rock in a sock" or "padlock on chain" type improvised weapons in a self defense situation? Seems that they will be beaten by a fast punch, and I think I'd rip my own fingers off with a chain.

For home defense, nothing beats a baseball bat. For god's sake don't put a nail in it.

[hydrogonian]

(07-26-2016 08:49 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

What's the utility of "rock in a sock" or "padlock on chain" type improvised weapons in a self defense situation? Seems that they will be beaten by a fast punch, and I think I'd rip my own fingers off with a chain.

For home defense, nothing beats a baseball bat. For god's sake don't put a nail in it.

It's hard to get near someone swinging a rock or a lock in a sock. Though, I'm also not claiming it's unbeatable. It's just a convenient weapon that can be made with objects on-hand, that might help in either part of a fight or to deter someone. I wouldn't want to gt hit in the face, head, or testicles with it.

[Sherman]

You can also start by fortifying your home. Where I live is built like a military compound. The entire place is surrounded by a wall topped with barbed wire, and each door of the house has a separate steel door over it and bars on the windows. An old lady could kick down the thin plywood door of the average American house. Americans don't even think of strengthening the security of their own homes.

[Leonard D Neubache]

^Make the strongest entry point to your house look like the weakest.

It gives you advanced notice.

Steel door? Slap a layer of wooden veneer over it

Aside, a door is only as strong as the frame the tongue of the lock(s) is recessed into.

[AnonymousBosch]

(07-26-2016 08:49 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

For home defense, nothing beats a baseball bat.

I read an article the other day about how baseballs bats were completely sold out at all the Rebel Sports stores in areas of Melbourne made stronger by diversity.

Apparently, they're selling a lot to girls, because now the African Gangs are breaking down doors.

The police, of course, being on the side of evil, have said they will punish vigilante activity with the fullest force of the law.

It's nice to see the problems of my hometown spreading to the cities, who all vote for this shit.

Coincidentally, this is why the Inner City Hipster tools and the Asians have suddenly 'discovered' how the quality of life is so much better in Wellington, New Zealand.

[H1N1]

Honestly, far better than doing MAs is simply to get much bigger and stronger. I say this as a former boxer and someone who has had the opportunity to train with and learn from some professionally dangerous people. I work very closely with a lot of sharp end guys with my business, in an industry relevant to the current theme, and the best things you can have for unarmed self defense are size, strength, conditioning and aggression. They trump skill, as unpopular as that may be for many smaller guys to hear (I am by no means a wall of muscle myself). Trying to apply skills which require fine motor skills in a high stress situation requires a level of training beyond even most serious professionals. Most of the SF guys I know will quite happily tell you that they get the business done in door kicking situations by being bigger, faster, more aggressive, meaner and more determined than the guys they are coming for. Keep in mind that these are guys who have all the time and resources you could hope for to train for the purpose of being hard to kill.

Gross motor skills executed with extreme prejudice and bad intentions are how you give yourself the best possible chance of surviving contact. Martial arts add a useful gloss on top of that, as they give you more efficient gross motor skills, and importantly, inoculate you to an extent against the paralyzing effects of the adrenaline dump that comes with sudden violent conflict. Boxing, Muai Thai, *proper* Krav, etc, are all great for this. You learn to get hit, and see that you're not made of glass, and you gain a degree of confidence which gives you an increased clarity and self-possession in the crucial moments when the shit hits the fan.

It is important to realise though that as far as unarmed fighting goes, these MAs are a gloss on the more fundamental reality - size, strength, conditioning, aggression, determination are what will decide the conflict. You hear lots of stories from little guys about all the big guys they've laid out, all the muscle heads who couldn't stand up to them, and perhaps there is some truth to these stories. Not all big guys have the meanness and resolve to be fighters. But match up one of these indomitable little chaps with a guy who has the same qualities and 30lbs more of bone, sinew and muscle, and the invincible pocket rocket is going be getting shoveled into buckets in short order.

Get big, get strong, get fit, and get tough by adding some finishing touches with combat training. Don't forget to enjoy your life the rest of the time though. Life's still pretty great, despite the very real problems we face here in Europe.

[Leonard D Neubache]

^Thank for that post. It's exactly what I wanted to say myself but you get there first.

If you want to survive a conflict you have to be able to turn on the psychotic ape inside you. I grew up with a bastard of a little brother and because of that, despite my minimal training, I have regularly beat martial artists with years of experience because they spend so much of their time pulling their punches and avoiding hurting people that they're actually worse off than someone with no training at all.

quickedit: The difference between McDojos and the real deal I suppose.