[buja]

A jury found that Led Zeppelin's "Stairway" did not infringe the copyright of Spirit's "Taurus"

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/l...t-20160623

After the musically clueless jury in the Marvin Gaye/Robin Thicke case, I was afraid this would be the same story.
thread-45876.html

In essence... A chord progression CANNOT be copyrighted.
Especially a 300 year old chord progression.

My faith in humanity (at least musically speaking) is somewhat restored.

Side note...Maybe Led Zeppelin is the recipient of good karma?
Many have outright stolen Led Zeppelin music through sampling (Beastie Boys, Tears for Fears, etc.).

Led Zeppelin is legally entitled to millions of dollars in royalties because others used their actual sound recordings. (Sting made millions when he sued Sean Puffy Combs for sampling "Every Breath You Take" without permission)

However, to my knowledge, Led Zeppelin has never sued anyone for this.

Your thoughts?

[Quintus Curtius]

I'd like to know how someone can file suit on a song that's 40 years old. I haven't done any research on this case, and know little about the facts.

But there must have been some tolling of the statute of limitations or something. I should look into it more.

I did listen to the track that "Stairway" was allegedly lifted from. It doesn't even sound that similar.

To me, even with my lack of knowledge on the subject, the case sounded like bullshit from the get-go.

[T and A Man]

Led Zeppelin settled out of court for " Whole Lotta Love " in the 1980's. They do have a reputation for lifting songs, " Dazed and Confused" is another.

While I never regarded the Spirit song as being lifted, it didn't surprise me this would be challenged in court by the song writers estate after the death of the sing writer.

The statue of limitations was reset by a re-release in 2014

[buja]

(06-24-2016 07:45 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

I'd like to know how someone can file suit on a song that's 40 years old. I haven't done any research on this case, and know little about the facts.

But there must have been some tolling of the statute of limitations or something. I should look into it more.

I did listen to the track that "Stairway" was allegedly lifted from. It doesn't even sound that similar.

To me, even with my lack of knowledge on the subject, the case sounded like bullshit from the get-go.

As I understand, the release of the remastered version of Stairway to Heaven started the clock on a new 3 year period of eligibility to claim copyright infringement.

[buja]

(06-24-2016 07:50 PM)T and A Man Wrote:  

Led Zeppelin settled out of court for " Whole Lotta Love " in the 1980's. They do have a reputation for lifting songs, Dm" Dazed and Confused" is another.

While I never regarded the Spirit song as being lifted, it didn't surprise me a never-was band tried their hand

Yes, the Whole Lotta Love and Dazed and Confused cases did have merit.

Also, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You which Page and Plant mistakenly thought was in the public domain.

I think that Led Zeppelin's reputation for lifting songs is exaggerated by a lot of musically challenged people who are jealous of success and have too much time on their hands to make YouTube videos.

I can't think of anything outside of the three above.

Those three cases are not nearly as egregious as what John Lennon and The Beatles did with "Come Together" vis-a-vis Chuck Berry's "You Can't Catch Me" yet Zeppelin receives tons of hate and The Beatles receive none.

[EDantes]

(06-24-2016 08:11 PM)buja Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 07:50 PM)T and A Man Wrote:  

Led Zeppelin settled out of court for " Whole Lotta Love " in the 1980's. They do have a reputation for lifting songs, Dm" Dazed and Confused" is another.

While I never regarded the Spirit song as being lifted, it didn't surprise me a never-was band tried their hand

Yes, the Whole Lotta Love and Dazed and Confused cases did have merit.

Also, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You which Page and Plant mistakenly thought was in the public domain.

I think that Led Zeppelin's reputation for lifting songs is exaggerated by a lot of musically challenged people who are jealous of success and have too much time on their hands to make YouTube videos.

I can't think of anything outside of the three above.

Those three cases are not nearly as egregious as what John Lennon and The Beatles did with "Come Together" vis-a-vis Chuck Berry's "You Can't Catch Me" yet Zeppelin receives tons of hate and The Beatles receive none.

Plus considering how much music is out there, it's hard for music writers to come up with truly "original ideas".

It's totally plausible that Led Zepplin had heard that song at some point in their lives and subconsciously imitated the melody when they wrote it without knowing where it came from, as opposed to intentional plagiarism.

Heard a similar story regarding guitarist Joe Satriani suing Coldplay over ripping off one of his songs.

[hedonist]

lol you obviously haven't looked at some of the song credits for the first album
in terms of plagiarism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppelin_(album) (under composition)

Its always amazed me the heinous shit Page got away with like creeping on 14 year olds......
He always was a scumbag of the highest order.

[EDantes]

(06-24-2016 10:54 PM)hedonist Wrote:  

lol you obviously haven't looked at some of the song credits for the first album
in terms of plagiarism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppelin_(album) (under composition)

Its always amazed me the heinous shit Page got away with like creeping on 14 year olds......
He always was a scumbag of the highest order.

Yeah, a lot of people in the entertainment industry are overpaid lowlifes, but they can still make good music, movies, etc.

Can't recall in which book I read this, but the author claimed the entertainment industry, especially today is the only industry where people can regularly become successful despite being morally awful. Probably because in a lot of cases "talent" or "marketability" rather than self-discipline plays a role in who gets hired by talent scouts.

A guy who busts his balls performing in a local rock band can barely make a living off of it, while a skank like Nicki Minaj who got fired from over 10 "normal" jobs for rudeness to the customers before she got discovered can earn a 7 figure income just for having a large ass and boobs.

(Though I'm thinking that politics should also be included in that category.)

[Slim Shady]

Wasn't Dazed and Confused just a Yardbirds song? And the Yardbirds just became Led Zeppelin through some rotation changes with Jimmy Page as the common continuity...

Nothing wrong with that.

[LeeEnfield303]

A hard-rock legend took an interest in the young groupies who threw themselves at him?

This is my shocked face.

[Suits]

There's a pretty clear portion of shared melody in both songs. I'm surprised the lawsuit failed.

[T and A Man]

Its an A minor chord harmony with a descending baseline for 4 bars. Very common, similar to say Beethoven's moonlight sonata. You're not going to win on that, and that's all the case had.

Page adds a ascending harmonic overlay and changes chord progression after 4 bars.

[911]

I agree, they lifted it from Spirit, which is a good, underrated band.

Led Zep are a bunch of hardcore satanists, you can hear it in their backmasking worshipful messages glorifying their lord satan. Page, like many other rock stars, is very heavily into Aleister Crowley, to the point where he actually bought his old house, where Crowley performed his black magick.

In terms of copyright protection terms, Disney Corp's hold on Mickey Mouse is a century old, they keep pushing laws into extending that hold, they have lawmakers in their pocket. So Spirit suing for a 40yr old song they wrote should not be surprising.

http://artlawjournal.com/mickey-mouse-ke...right-law/

[fokker]

911 Wrote:

Led Zep are a bunch of hardcore satanists, you can hear it in their backmasking worshipful messages glorifying their lord satan. Page, like many other rock stars, is very heavily into Aleister Crowley, to the point where he actually bought his old house, where Crowley performed his black magick.

Don't tell me you actually believe this bullshit. It was debunked in the 1980s.

[911]

"It was debunked" is the unofficial blue pill mantra.

If you can't grasp Led Zeppelin's satanic dimension, you might as well be posting on Rolling Stone Magazine or some other "progressive" message board.

[fokker]

(06-25-2016 10:52 PM)911 Wrote:  

"It was debunked" is the unofficial blue pill mantra.

If you can't grasp Led Zeppelin's satanic dimension, you might as well be posting on Rolling Stone Magazine or some other "progressive" message board.

I never believed in the "subliminal Satanic message" crap, and I don't understand why you're peddling it now on the RVF.

[LeeEnfield303]

(06-25-2016 10:52 PM)911 Wrote:  

"It was debunked" is the unofficial blue pill mantra.

If you can't grasp Led Zeppelin's satanic dimension, you might as well be posting on Rolling Stone Magazine or some other "progressive" message board.

Tipper Gore? Is that you?

[Mr. D]

(06-24-2016 08:11 PM)buja Wrote:  

Those three cases are not nearly as egregious as what John Lennon and The Beatles did with "Come Together" vis-a-vis Chuck Berry's "You Can't Catch Me" yet Zeppelin receives tons of hate and The Beatles receive none.

Wasn't Lennons "Rock'n'Roll"-album part of an agreement with Morris Levy, after he'd sued Lennon?

[catoblepa]

Stairway doesn't really sound similar to Taurus. same thing for Whole Lotta Love and D&C. if Page had named D&C some other title nobody would have ever noticed the similarity with Jake Holmes' song.
there's a lot of unjustified criticism against LZ. you can find countless of other plagiarism examples going after this kind of flimsy "evidence".

[Goldin Boy]

(06-24-2016 07:45 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

I'd like to know how someone can file suit on a song that's 40 years old. I haven't done any research on this case, and know little about the facts.

Because copyright law says that the copyright for songs published between 1978 and 1964 endure 95 years from the date they were published. Songs/intellecutal property copyrights for works created after '78 endure the owners life plus 70 years after his/their death.(Source)

Not a Led Zepplin or Rock fan but after listening to both songs it's ridiculously obvious that they're different. What a frivolous lawsuit.

[T and A Man]

Whole Lotta love wasn't the riff, it was the lyrics.

It is why Willie Dixon has been credited as a song writer for the song since 1985

[Ecad]

What about this blatant stairway to heaven rip off??

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KXDf9UwHGF4

[Mikan]

That same Am chord descending progression is found in a lot of flamenco music, although usually played much faster.

[UroboricForms]

I've always had the belief that there are only so many ideas out there. With the amount of musicians out there in the world, someone is bound to plagiarize something sooner or later. Whether or not that is accidental depends on the individual cases. It's one of the ways influence works too. Many bands and artists start out sounding like the sum of various influences, and carry on as such, albeit with their own established voice contributing as well.

In my LSD period I often espoused the belief that all artistic ideas already existed as part of some collective consciousness, and individual musicians were merely acting as conduits during the creative process, filtering those things through their own idiosyncrasies. I haven't touched psychedelics for a long time, however I still think that is a theory worthy of consideration.

Of course, some similarities are more blatant than others. Case in point, Killing Joke's "Eighties" (1984) vs. Nirvana's "Come As You Are" (1991) (add The Damned's "Life Goes on" to that, which came first in 1982). Too similar to be a coincidence. Agreed that chord progressions cannot be considered as intellectual property.

[buja]

(06-26-2016 05:24 AM)Mr. D Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 08:11 PM)buja Wrote:  

Those three cases are not nearly as egregious as what John Lennon and The Beatles did with "Come Together" vis-a-vis Chuck Berry's "You Can't Catch Me" yet Zeppelin receives tons of hate and The Beatles receive none.

Wasn't Lennons "Rock'n'Roll"-album part of an agreement with Morris Levy, after he'd sued Lennon?

Yes, that's what I've read from multiple sources.
Lennon was never forced to give Chuck Berry songwriting credit for Come Together nor are there any hate videos about how "terrible" Lennon was for this while Led Zeppelin has many hate videos about them...strange.