[R_Niko]

... the modern sexual market.

15:30 onward

basically a 43 year old has been dating various women as a normal man does, not finding a wife like a normal man doesn't, he perfectly describes the economic disconnect between women's perceived SMV and their actual SMV. And yet Stefan doesn't bloodywell get it. Just white knights and acts like he's winning the whole argument.

I hate this because I normally agree with 90%+ of what he says.

[EDantes]

I think it's because sadly the modern sexual market is the result of the perversion of nature; people throughout history lived in fairly small, orderly communal villages and tribes; the consumer economy today was unheard of until the post WWII economic boom and won't be around forever.

From what I've read about anthropology, in an ideal state of nature there was much more natural order to sustain relationships, the most "alpha" men were consistently the best providers; if one couldn't hunt or fight they wouldn't be able to produce enough goods to sustain a relationship, unlike in the modern world of office jobs, which pay well enough but require no masculine skills at all, giving betas a way to "provide" but without what it takes to actually be a man. (And likewise encouraging alpha men to act like little girls just to conform to the current whims of the economy).

And infidelity in a small tribe had much more real consequences for both parties; men who abandoned a woman and her kid would be targets of revenge by a father or brother, and women who cheated would instantly gain a reputation as a whore by the entire community.

This is part of why people on the right and left refuse to accept this; in an ideal state of nature men being men and women being women would work out pretty good; however the realistic economy of today filled with beta providers and career skanks who "don't need a man" has distorted the natural order.

[Darius2times]

The caller has an interesting point. I live in the South in a medium sized town and most of the women are married, or single with children, the ones that are both single and childless are severely delusional about their SMV and completely shun the average guy that matches up well. Maybe another case of 80/20

[CynicalContrarian]

Similar to when I tell my mother that chivalry is a poor choice when dating young chicks.

My mother's generation grew up on, appreciates & understands chivalry.
Where-as these young chicks obviously don't know how to handle or deal with chivalry (at least not without being suspicious of the guy's behaviour).

Yet even when I detail why chivalry is a dud choice in modern dating; my mother's outlook & mindset just can't quite fathom the logic.
Or the illogic of being turned off by chivalry as the case may be.

[CH-Toronto]

Yeah I'm usually a bit of a fan of his- but he seemed to be over-simplifying the issue.

"So you're blaming your dating situation on OK Cupid Scores"

Also even when he says, "You're only 6 years younger than me" - that's when the conversation started to become a little condescending to the caller. At around the 24 minute mark the caller is trying to explain how women at 34-35 have a blase attitudes towards marriage/kids and Stefan just doesn't want to hear it. It's true though - at 34/35 an unmarried woman is not waiting for a gentleman at home living with her parents- she has her life sorted out, she's independent and living life by her rules.

At around the 30:30 mark he talks about the women he's meeting:

"They want travel, they want excitement, they want beautiful men and famous men"

Response: "That's because you're dating trash"

[Suits]

(06-04-2016 12:50 AM)CH-Toronto Wrote:  

At around the 30:30 mark he talks about the women he's meeting:

"They want travel, they want excitement, they want beautiful men and famous men"

Response: "That's because you're dating trash"

So....all women are trash?

[Speculation]

Stefan is blinded by his own arrogance sometimes. He thinks he understands the modern dating market having never participated in it (he met his wife in college).

I am a regular listener and I enjoy his channel, but I really hate it when he becomes condescending and talks down to people.

In his mind because he picked his wife because of her 'virtues' and not because of sexual attraction, he is the ultimate judge of how men should choose their women. If you told him you wanted a partner you wanted to be attracted to first rather than prioritising 'virtue', he would rip into you like he did with this guy. He sees this guy's problems through that lens.

Stefan has his blindspots, but nobody is perfect.

[Horus]

(06-04-2016 06:00 AM)Speculation Wrote:  

Stefan is blinded by his own arrogance sometimes. He thinks he understands the modern dating market having never participated in it (he met his wife in college).

Is that correct? I remember in a couple of videos he mentioned that he had dated a lot of women before he married his wife.

[Speculation]

Yeah, I think you might be right. They might have met after college. His wife's bio mentions going back to work the day after their date.

Still he hasn't been single for over 20 years.

[Beijong]

(06-04-2016 06:41 AM)Speculation Wrote:  

Yeah, I think you might be right. They might have met after college. His wife's bio mentions going back to work the day after their date.

Still he hasn't been single for over 20 years.

Thats like not being on the internet for 20 years and still giving someone pointers on how to write good source code.

Stefan is a pretty based guy still, but he doesn't understand the meat grinder of dating today

[R_Niko]

(06-06-2016 09:07 AM)Beijong Wrote:  

Stefan is a pretty based guy still, but he doesn't understand the meat grinder of dating today

Yep, it's the one area he seems completely clued out of, or worse, he sometimes even seems to contradict his own observations.

ex. he admits that a certain percentage of women are selfish, low value, not suitable wife material, etc., and yet he tells every single male caller there are a lot of nice girls out there, etc. Logically, the number of women who are not suitable is equal to the number of men who cannot expect to find a wife.

[RichieP]

Weird how otherwise highly open-minded /curious/intellectual people just turn it off when it comes to this issue.

I suppose it's because they have a vested interest in the institution they bought into years ago.

I've heard entrepreneurs who are super-smart, innovative thinkers also unnecessarily defend marriage and monogamous relationships. They challenge dogma elsewhere, but in that area they defend it.

I'm sure it's a cognitive bias, some kinda sunk cost fallacy lol. I suppose we all have issues where our emotional attachments make us rigid in our beliefs though.

[Malone]

Stefan has a wife? I've only heard his voice a couple times (can't stand it). I thought he was a fag.

[Neo]

I believe this is also a generational thing. Stefan is what 50?

The vast majority of older guys I talk to simply can't wrap their head around how the dating market is now.

When they were dating there was no match.com, tinder, or FB. You'd just meet a girl through your social circle and chances are she was normal with a relatively low notch count, you'd get married, have kids, and stay together.

For most women in that generation the entire notion of 'internet dating' in any form did not not exist.

Now talk to most guys under the age of 35, unless they've been living under a rock they understand how it is out there. If a girl is cute, she is literally getting hit up possibly 100s of times per week, mostly on the internet but still it takes it's toll.

Now it doesn't matter one iota is she is sleeping with a lot of guys or not (in fact I believe in the manosphere we overestimate a woman's promiscuity), but what does matter is what effect the sea of infinite choice has on her personality and character. First, no matter how 'good' or 'traditional' she is eventually she will break down and bang a guy she shouldn't. Second, it puts her in a state of mind that she has infinite choice and that Mr. Perfect is right around corner. Of course that man simply doesn't exist, and before you know it she's hit the wall and has become one of the undesirables.

[Kid Twist]

Stefan's logic also doesn't work, but I was waiting for the guy to call him on it:

"Then why aren't you married?" That's a tautology.

The guy (I skipped around a bit and maybe missed it but I don't think so) kept blowing his chance to set Stefan straight, which is "I'm not necessarily dating low equality women IF the general trend is that MOST have become low quality, given the societal pressures and empirical data."

You could easily use that against him. Stefan's assumption is that there are "high quality women out there" implying that there are and equal number that are high vs. low, or that there is sufficient enough high quality. I wonder what he would say to why so many 30+ year old women are unmarried?

He can't prove his assumptions.

Now, I don't know the reality to this but it seems somewhat close-minded to not at least consider that maybe this guy was in the big cities and the culture has affected these women in an adverse way. If so, his recommendation should have been, "Maybe you need to try different areas of the country."

[Kid Twist]

(06-06-2016 03:08 PM)Neo Wrote:  

First, no matter how 'good' or 'traditional' she is eventually she will break down and bang a guy she shouldn't. Second, it puts her in a state of mind that she has infinite choice and that Mr. Perfect is right around corner. Of course that man simply doesn't exist, and before you know it she's hit the wall and has become one of the undesirables.

I haven't seen that written discretely here, but it's definitely true, given all the pressures and time.

Indeed, Neo --- the infinite choice also has a perverse additive effect --- namely that after having experienced so many different guys, they also tend to think that they can get each single, best characteristic of their liking all rolled INTO one. I think this might be more subconscious, but is nevertheless real.