[tanner]

Doing selfless service is not much discussed nowadays, especially in societies where materialism is the dominant thinking.

However, in societies where selfless service is an accepted cultural norm, they tend to be more socially connected, more happy and hence stronger.

Many religions, especially eastern religions have selfless service as part of their doctrine.

Hinduism for example propagates a three dimensional approach for individual progress. Mental expansion (Vistera), Engaging in the flow (Rasa), and Selfless service (Seva).

Selfless Service means doing service without getting anything in return. If you get something in return then it is not selfless. There are many business who donate to charity, but they insist on getting recognition by have their logo or name printed on a publication. They also want to get tax receipts for their contributions. That is fine -- but it is not selfless service.

When one engages in true selfless service, one's mind becomes more balanced and one's humane nature becomes more developed and mature. One's personality also becomes more relaxed and even care free and charming. One gets more respect and becomes trustworthy.

There is an art to engaging in self service, but it is becoming quite lost in places where materialism is dominant.

I think this is a serious topic of discussion. If Selfless Service was to become dominant in the culture once again, then many social problems would be natural resolved. It may sound corny, but it can save a society from collapsing which th US seems headed for.

[Valentine]

Good topic OP.

Psychological research points to it making you far happier than living selfishly.

I tend to think of my advice and community building as my selfless service, but truth be told everyone can say the same thing.

It's definitely a lost art and is highly tied to religion. Though I think our overt and subtle spreading of the good word of Neomasculinity is in many ways selfless service.

[Deepdiver]

The perfect example of selfless service is communism in its purest form... From those according to their ability and to those according to their needs. Good luck with that Bernie Berners.

WTF???

A man has a moral obligation to build his empire, legacy and legend - financial, physical, material and DNA footsteps when he has long passed returned to dust and ashes.

If you don't get paid you don't get laid.

No finance No Romance

No jingle no mingle...

No Coins No Loins...

No paydays No Play days.

Work it out.

[greekgod]

You must strike balance, like anything else in life.

Too far altruistic and you get railroaded daily. Too far selfish and you railroad others solely to shovel xoal into an engine.

If you're in your 20s and not there financially, a few times a year won't hurt. But focus on being selfish so you can be generous.

Also, be very weary of who you share your good nature with. Ungrateful mooches are everywhere.

Lastly, for my American RVF'rs, most big cities have a cares dot com organization. It is a databases of volunteer opps by category/focus and distance. There is something every day. Generally some decent chicks there as well.

Now stack that cash!

[tanner]

(04-25-2016 09:56 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  

The perfect example of selfless service is communism in its purest form... From those according to their ability and to those according to their needs. Good luck with that Bernie Berners.

WTF???

A man has a moral obligation to build his empire, legacy and legend - financial, physical, material and DNA footsteps when he has long passed returned to dust and ashes.

If you don't get paid you don't get laid.

No finance No Romance

No jingle no mingle...

No Coins No Loins...

No paydays No Play days.

Work it out.

As per Hinduism and other eastern thinking, what you stated falls under Expansion (vistera) and Engaging in the Flow ( Rasa). However that is only 2/3. The other 1/3 is Selfless Service (seva). Also the doctrine of Seva is thousands of years old and found in most religions and other long lived cultures. Rampant materialism is quite new -- maybe only 150 years or so now.

[General Stalin]

I'm in the school of thought that nothing is ever truly done "selflessly."

People who appear altruistic at the very least do it because it makes them feel good about themselves, even if they don't get any external gain - the gain is internal. That dopamine rush of feeling like you did something beneficial for others.

People who are religious are selfless because their faith dictates them to be, and they do so because they want to live right in the eyes of their respective god(s) and be granted a good afterlife or whatever their beliefs.

Selflessness in the form of "pure communism" is just government mandated selflessness. People are selfless in that case because it's the law.

I'm not saying anything against it - helping others is great and an important part of being human, but there is no such thing as selflessness.

Me personally, the most selfless things I do are:

-hold a door or elevator open for someone entering/exiting in proximity
-give someone a spot at the gym

[Tapestry]

Bullshit. At the very least one gets personal satisfaction, and most likely bragging rights from doing "selfless service." It doesn't diminish the value of the service, but let's be honest about it. Reality is a bitch.

[Peregrine]

I firmly believe that it's not selfless if anyone else knows you did it. Ideally, even the person you helped doesn't know it was you.

That said, I was never much a fan of Buddhism et al. Their solution to happiness = reality - expectations is to reduce the expectations part of the equation. I prefer to raise my reality through selfish, but ethical, action.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(04-25-2016 09:56 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  

The perfect example of selfless service is communism in its purest form... From those according to their ability and to those according to their needs. Good luck with that Bernie Berners.

WTF???

A man has a moral obligation to build his empire, legacy and legend - financial, physical, material and DNA footsteps when he has long passed returned to dust and ashes.

If you don't get paid you don't get laid.

No finance No Romance

No jingle no mingle...

No Coins No Loins...

No paydays No Play days.

Work it out.

Meaning: Charity begins at home. A man's first responsibility is to himself, then his family, the his friends. After that charity can come in.

This, I think, is why our natural instinct is to question the motives of men who do too much charity work. It sets off alarm bells because it upends the natural order of things. We're most comfortable seeing men care for their families or support their buddies. When they care for strangers, we unconsciously think "Hm...why is he doing this?"

Individual charity might be a good idea, but corporate charity usually never is.

I particularly had a problem with my old company's annual United Way fundraising drive. Each year, poorly-paid newspaper workers would be pressured by the HR idiots to donate a certain amount and reach certain goals.

One year the employees scraped together over $10K. I refused to donate a cent. No one was amused when I mentioned that the $10K was a fraction of the salary United Way executives earn each year.

All that said, it's generally a good thing to help the occasional person in crisis, like when someone's car breaks down, or when their wife is stricken with an unexpected illness, or something like that. It's better to do something than do nothing and then feel like your small contribution might have been what saved them from ruin.

[H1N1]

If you're a capable man you do the most good for those around you and your nation by thrashing every last inch of potential out of yourself.

Build a company, employ people, pay them well and give them interesting work.

Innovate usefully. Drive progress that improves life for many people.

Make money, show those around you how to do the same, and then spend that money so that others do a little better because of you, and so do their dependents and immediate 'communities'.

Produce good families who will carry this on, each generation contributing more to the sum of wealth of the nation.

Involve yourself in politics, if you're so inclined, or in the running of local institutions that contribute to the tangible good experienced by your people.

This is how you improve the lot of your people meaningfully over the longer term. If you're an able man, and an ambitious man, then charity is the worst and least effective way that you can actually make a meaningful contribution to your nation. Charity is something to preoccupy those of limited means and imagination. Able men are busy coming up with the solutions to the problems.

[tanner]

(04-26-2016 02:23 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

Build a company, employ people, pay them well and give them interesting work.

Innovate usefully. Drive progress that improves life for many people.

Make money, show those around you how to do the same, and then spend that money so that others do a little better because of you, and If you're a capable man you do the most good for those around you and your nation by thrashing every last inch of potential out of yourself.
so do their dependents and immediate 'communities'.

Produce good families who will carry this on, each generation contributing more to the sum of wealth of the nation.

Involve yourself in politics, if you're so inclined, or in the running of local institutions that contribute to the tangible good experienced by your people.

This is how you improve the lot of your people meaningfully over the longer term. If you're an able man, and an ambitious man, then charity is the worst and least effective way that you can actually make a meaningful contribution to your nation. Charity is something to preoccupy those of limited means and imagination. Able men are busy coming up with the solutions to the problems.

Well said indeed. What you wrote though does go in line with Selfless service or Seva. If one has Seva as a foundation or corner stone of one's thinking -- then one's mind becomes more balanced and more free from fear and greed instincts.

Seva is different from Charity. Seva is not expecting anything in return. It is a way of thinking. If you expect something in return or some gain, then it is not Seva.

Seva is a secret tool that helps one build one's personality, character and other positive characteristics. I think Women get attracted to guys who are busy developing their potentials ---AND --who think in a seva way.

The whole point of Seva is to keep it a secret -- as one is genuinely not expecting anything in return.

But you are absolutely right in that:

"If you're a capable man you do the most good for those around you and your nation by thrashing every last inch of potential out of yourself."

But if you think in Seva way, your mind will be more balanced and objective which may help one thrash out one's potential.

If you think in a Charity way, then you have other motives --

"Charity is something to preoccupy those of limited means and imagination" -- spot on.

[TooFineAPoint]

A few aphorisms from observing charitable people who are genuinely happy and have made a positive impact, and from some personal theorizing:

1. Man acts. Actions are chosen. All given choices are based on self-fulfilment at the moment of choosing (self-awareness is optional). Ergo, no acts are "selfless". This is a negation of existence.
2. "Selflessness" is a pretty lie you tell yourself to feel more important. Let's talk mercy and charity, instead. Your first merciful, charitable act should be to stop lying to yourself.
3. Offer benefits to others. Figure out what their problems are, and how to solve them. How to identify a problem-solution outcome? See if others are willing to trade for it, with time, favors, money.
4. If someone cannot trade for what you have to offer, but instead of asking, they remove themselves from the transaction with dignity... you may have a potential charity case.
5. Give anonymously.
6. Never give enough that the amount makes a real difference. Only give so that the timing and the sentiment reanimates the receiver's own resolve.
7. Immediately wipe the action from your memory. You are no better for having given. You are lucky to be alive. And anyway, you probably did it for some selfish reason. Go find another problem to solve in exchange for time, favors, or money.

[RatInTheWoods]

I do selfless acts for myself... I feel good helping other people and sharing my abundance.

The world needs less selfish assholes and more people willing to lend a hand.

[EDantes]

There are a couple problems I have with 'selfless service' especially in the modern world:

1. Nothing is truly "selfless" - I consider doing things out of a real purpose in life a higher motive than purely material gain, but even then it's still not entirely selfless, even if it's only for that 'warm fuzzy feeling'.

2. Many people do "selfless" things for "selfish reasons" - As Jesus pointed out regarding the Pharisees in the Bible for example, many people do selfless things simply for the ego boost of being able to loudly complain about it but not out of any real underlying moral principle; traditionally this was associated with women since "attention from others" is the female bragging commodity rather than sex, money, power - but due to the androgynized culture of today you see men taking this route too, hence "male feminism" and "social justice".

Even people who are outright sociopaths will "do nice things" if they think it benefits their public image, hence people like the serial rapists Jerry Sandusky and Bill Cosby.

3. The idea of "one big global community" is false and has more relation to hippie, Utopian thinking than in reality"

For most of history communities didn't exist any larger than individual villages where people encountered each other face-to-face; the mass media today gives more of an illusion of community than really exists.

Not to mention in historical communities, altruistic behavior was designed in some part to benefit the community as a whole; helping the poor blind man was an act of generosity but it was also expected to aid him in serving the community - so as harsh as it is to say, it's pretty hard to "care" about some starving child in Africa or some kid with Down's Syndrome who lives 1,000 away when one knows intellectual that they aren't really a part of their "community" at all.

Likewise it's highly unlikely that humans could ever all live in "harmony" holding hands around the bonfire singing Kumbayah; because humans are tribal creatures by nature and designed to have a "us vs them" mentality; the fact that strangers online pick brutal fights with each other over Miley Cyrus videos pretty much debunks the notion of 'technology' leading us to one big techno-topian society.

4. Teaching wisdom and values is a far greater gift than a handout - Sadly society places more emphasis on simply "giving" people handouts or free stuff they need than teaching them true wisdom or values, something far greater than anything material; if anything society even frowns upon this; as many would claim offense for example if one showed a beta male some "tough love" and let him know how his behavior was turning women off, rather than simply tell him something nice he "wants" to hear (ex. "just be yourself, you deserve a great girl, etc").

Likewise in order to grant someone a true gift of wisdom, one has to spend much of their time developing the self and living a life of virtue; rather than spending all day in a soup kitchen just to give an illusion of "selfless service".

-----

My overall views on selfless service are as follows:

1. In the past I was more of a strict egotist but I find this nihilistic; I believe self service is a social virtue which makes society stronger and is becoming lost in today's world, however I believe it should primarily favor the individuals one directly encounters and benefits from on a daily basis; your real community.

If one appreciates the service a restaurant or local shop offers him, he should give a little back in kind out of genuine appreciation.

As far as one feeling 'obligated' to donate to any 'Gofundme.com petition', or this gay "End World Hunger" stuff just so they can brag about it on Facebook, I say screw it. That's not selfless service, it's just being a sycophant; it's "selfless-service" for people who are too lazy to even step away from their computer and actually interact with anyone in their community.