[whosyourdaddy]

I met a guy who works as a Systems Analyst over the weekend. He told me that if he were getting into the field now, that being a developer is where it's at.

He said that once you get some experience you can work anywhere in the country that you want. Pretty easy to find jobs, good pay, didn't mention whether the hours or work sucks or not. That means that in places that are fairly job scarce like LA, Miami, Vegas or NYC- that it would still be pretty easy to find some kind of paying work.

Wouldn't there also be a lot of international opportunity as well? Being able to jet and work in a place like Brazil or France would be totally awesome.

If not, he did mention that you'd probably be able to easily work remotely-- therefore, easy to work on the beach in Brazil or Thailand!!

Anyone have any comments about the hours and whether the work sucks or not?

The only thing that would probably suck would be that there would be NO WOMEN whatsoever in the workplace, and your coworkers, most likely from places like India, China or Russia-- correct me if i am wrong. Is this a good career for an international player?

And how hard would it be to get started in this field? Finally, is outsourcing to India in the future a potential issue?

[UrbanNerd]

The answers to those questions are "It depends, it depends and it depends". Maybe web development can be that way, but doing things like object-oriented development in Java using hibernate will probably require you to be at your workplace. Bigger projects are done as a team which means collaborating on the design, development and implementation.

Furthermore....

If you are involved in large-scale applications, you will probably need knowledge that you are just not going to get from "reading a book or two". You will need actual computer science knowledge that will go over the theory and application of programming languages, operating systems, data structures and algorithm analysis.

Yeah, you might be able to get a few skills from some "information systems/technology" course but many employers will want a B.S. in computer science, math or engineering. Now in order to "freelance" and be an independent consultant, you have to be REAL GOOD and able to prove it (from prior projects and connections).

In order to incorporate travel into your career, you may want to work as a consultant who would work on projects that are 3 months to a year in length. Still, you will often times need the education and experience to be hired into these development positions.

Web development is a more flexible option for the traveler.

[truedat]

Or just hire a team of programmers, DB developers, designers and marketers on a as needed basis, and mark up all of the work 150%-200% like me

Long story short, companies want their work done fast, with precision and for the lowest cost possible. If you can do that, and know HOW TO SELL, you are golden. If you lack either the sales capacity, or the back office development expertise, you might as well work for a company instead of starting your own.

TD

[thegmanifesto]

You would definitely have to come up with a crafty answer to "What do you do for a living?"

I doubt "IT developer" is going to suffice in the clutch at the nightclub with a fly 21 year old at 2:30 am.

[UrbanNerd]

(07-11-2011 04:28 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

You would definitely have to come up with a crafty answer to "What do you do for a living?"

I doubt "IT developer" is going to suffice in the clutch at the nightclub with a fly 21 year old at 2:30.

LOL....for them, you just say "computers". You don't wanna confuse them any more...then get off the subject.

Now I do use "ingeniero" on some of my latin honeys.

[Rah]

Just make sure you're a kickass developer if you don't want people to care where you are and still pay you good money by Western standards. If a company is going to outsource / hire someone from across the globe, why wouldn't they go to Asia or Eastern Europe and pay a fraction of the cost?

[oldnemesis]

(07-11-2011 02:42 PM)whosyourdaddy Wrote:  

He said that once you get some experience you can work anywhere in the country that you want. Pretty easy to find jobs, good pay, didn't mention whether the hours or work sucks or not. That means that in places that are fairly job scarce like LA, Miami, Vegas or NYC- that it would still be pretty easy to find some kind of paying work.

This is true (hours typically suck, but not too much). You cannot however work anywhere in the country - for example, I'm not sure there are too many high paying dev jobs in Hawaii or Guam.

Quote:

Wouldn't there also be a lot of international opportunity as well? Being able to jet and work in a place like Brazil or France would be totally awesome.

This is realistic. For example, I attended the expat meeting in Thailand, and talked to a few guys there. One of them is doing software, and he pretty much offered be a job right there, with a pretty competitive salary. I've been getting job offers from Singapore, Ukraine, Russia, S. Korea and Taiwan. However this is not easy (and France is one of the most difficult countries in the world to get the employment permit from), but it is possible, even if you don't speak the language. Note, however, that you must have A LOT of relevant (for the company) experience to make it happen.

Quote:

If not, he did mention that you'd probably be able to easily work remotely-- therefore, easy to work on the beach in Brazil or Thailand!!

Also true, although even more rare than above. To get this you'd need to be pretty much irreplaceable for a company, and at the same time being very trustworthy. Tim-Ferris-like examples would only work with very, very few people. Working from home, however, is very realistic nowadays - most companies provide it as a perk. Even large companies often let their employees work 2-3 times a week from home.

Quote:

The only thing that would probably suck would be that there would be NO WOMEN whatsoever in the workplace, and your coworkers, most likely from places like India, China or Russia-- correct me if i am wrong.

There are some - not a lot indeed, but it is definitely not male-only career. Depending on the field and the area, your coworkers may be from India, China or everywhere. Russia is more rare.

Quote:

And how hard would it be to get started in this field? Finally, is outsourcing to India in the future a potential issue?

It is easy to get started; it is more difficult to keep up with technology. It is also long-term investment career, so don't expect any significant benefits until you have worked in the field for at least five years, and learned some non-mainstream skills. So it is more like lawyer/doctor than waiter/strawberry picker.

[oldnemesis]

(07-11-2011 04:28 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

You would definitely have to come up with a crafty answer to "What do you do for a living?"

If he gets there and makes it a career, he can get a pack of $100 bills, count them, look at her and say "printing money".

[pobreinvestidor]

Chef... You can easily get jobs anywhere and learn new cooking styles that will be valuable when you come back. Despite not making lots of money it has very good social prestige and helps you easily hop to new locations when you feel like it

[manilaguy]

I find myself in the IT world in the financial services back room.

Is IT a good career? I don't plan doing this until i'm old and gray, heck I don't plan on doing this past 32 (i'm 27). How can this career be parlayed into something great? How to get this to work towards location free lifestyle?

I come from sales + operations, with an econ degree. I start masters MIS program next fall to give me buffer and get a much higher pay, trying to leverage what I have.

So far.. this type of work is chill and not as stressful. The bad is, just like any other field, one you have to conform to the market and update your skills with increasing creds.. and two.. indian offshore workers.

[Vaquero]

(07-11-2011 03:07 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

Yeah, you might be able to get a few skills from some "information systems/technology" course but many employers will want a B.S. in computer science, math or engineering.

As someone with a CIS/BBA degree, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with this. Yeah a B.S. will give you a heavier math focus and might make it easier to hit the ground running but if you are dedicated to filling in the gaps yourself you can be just as successful with a CIS degree, especially in the web world. Theres plenty of opportunities out there other than working for Facebook or Google.

The biggest thing as a web programmer is EXPERIENCE. You can put together a few sites for cheap to build your portfolio and then you'll have what you need to start marketing yourself. And yes, you can have a location independent lifestyle as a programmer but these days most companies will want to have some way of getting a hold of you quickly either by Skype or IM. Small price to pay IMO.

The opportunities in this industry are growing every day. I keep hearing from more and more CEO's who are telling me that the outsourcing experiment is over and are pulling that work back to the states. Yeah, maybe outsourcing works for support and data entry, but for projects that require a firm understanding of business needs and projects that require back-and-forth, they say you're better off hiring locally.

[manilaguy]

Also, i can see how the IT department can be a soul sucking endeavor: it is far from perfect.

Not a place I want to stay, but a place where I gather up my skills and parlay into the next best thing.

[portofmanteau]

(10-19-2011 05:53 PM)Vaquero Wrote:  

(07-11-2011 03:07 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

Yeah, you might be able to get a few skills from some "information systems/technology" course but many employers will want a B.S. in computer science, math or engineering.

As someone with a CIS/BBA degree, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with this. Yeah a B.S. will give you a heavier math focus and might make it easier to hit the ground running but if you are dedicated to filling in the gaps yourself you can be just as successful with a CIS degree, especially in the web world. Theres plenty of opportunities out there other than working for Facebook or Google.

The biggest thing as a web programmer is EXPERIENCE. You can put together a few sites for cheap to build your portfolio and then you'll have what you need to start marketing yourself. And yes, you can have a location independent lifestyle as a programmer but these days most companies will want to have some way of getting a hold of you quickly either by Skype or IM. Small price to pay IMO.

The opportunities in this industry are growing every day. I keep hearing from more and more CEO's who are telling me that the outsourcing experiment is over and are pulling that work back to the states. Yeah, maybe outsourcing works for support and data entry, but for projects that require a firm understanding of business needs and projects that require back-and-forth, they say you're better off hiring locally.

All of the above is true. Experience >>>> Education, and the majority of outsourcing experiments have had disastrous, unmaintainable spaghetti code results.

I've worked in web/mobile development for years, and have been outside of the country for most of that time, communicating via skype/gotomeeting/IM.

[rvz77]

In IT for lot of interational travel you should be part of a good sales team. Sales people have better chances than developers.

The only travel that the developer does is to go the client location or may be take/give trainings.

[FretDancer]

(07-11-2011 04:28 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

You would definitely have to come up with a crafty answer to "What do you do for a living?"

I doubt "IT developer" is going to suffice in the clutch at the nightclub with a fly 21 year old at 2:30 am.

But thats not the point, plus there are several ways to make "IT developer" sound interesting, no problem there.

The real key here regarding the original post is Web Development, like someone else pointed out. Some other areas of development will require a workspace and team, which will limit your freedom regarding travelling, or working abroad.

[oldnemesis]

(10-26-2011 04:07 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

But thats not the point, plus there are several ways to make "IT developer" sound interesting, no problem there.

I started saying recently that I sell drugs for living.
This was funny. Pretty much everyone asks if you have X/coke/ice and how much is it. Some chicks asked for my phone number right away. For the supply refills, I guess. It was weird.