[jake1720]

Hey everyone. I'm a graduating petroleum engineer here and wondering what everyone would do here in this situation. Feel free to chime in with your experiences also.

Oil is dead and will be possibly for the foreseeable future (see the 80's...). For anyone hoping for a sudden comeback in the 80's adjusted for inflation the prices held around 20-something. So what we are looking at right now has already happened in the past.

...Needless to say the decline to $28/bbl surprised many of us, and even our professor now is telling us that the peace corps exists, teach for america, or to go travel or raft for a year. A recruiter at an oil company straight up told me to just go do something else for a while. Basically it is their way of telling us nicely that we are screwed.

There's a lot of uncertainty in the air, and not the good kind. It could be only a few months, or it could be years until oil really does come back. No one really knows. Here are a few options I managed to scramble up within the past few months.

Sales engineer/Pre Sales -- Many of these are remote. If I had a remote job I would travel the US staying with friends and family. Otherwise I would live near an airport in a metropolitan area (Vegas anyone? Hehe). 6 figures from what I read and see.

Technical Sales -- Taking clients out and 6 figures from talking to guys who have done it. Won't make anyone rich but it's definitely not a bad gig either.

I won't get rich, but sales is a pretty transferable skill in which many do use to start their own business later down the line. My dad is doing real estate and I might want to join him there.

Working with a few marketing funnels with some marketing people. I get paid on the side and it may lead to bigger things, so not a bad gig.

Tech/software sales -- I have a friend doing this. Seems extremely lucrative... I was considering this.

I also have a few friends who are in a extremely high caliber business group. I was informally given the opportunity (At least it was there a few months ago) to come on as an employee and then eventually help create a business venture with them. Risky but I am still young so the risk is not that high.

I'd like to make a lot, but at this point I think big law, finance, or med school is out of the question unless I heavily leverage connections. Med school I would hate, law would be a tossup, and finance I might like.

Also working on getting my EU passport, which will take a while. I was thinking about ditching the US and either working for a major corporation or starting a business somewhere in Europe. Does anyone have experience starting a business in Europe? I also heard free grad school if you are a citizen. If I came in with my BS in engineering would finding work be pretty straightforward? Dual citizenship tax laws may be a pain in the ass though.

[Kangaroo]

Apply for any an all jobs, if you don't secure one then do a Masters in another engineering field or a finance degree.

[TheFinalEpic]

Sales is your best bet and you can make bank in other industries. The downturn in oil is great for other sectors as their energy costs and production costs are low. There's always money to be made.

[Captain Gh]

Got damn you got option kid!! The saying is true: It's not what you know, but who you know! I would personally take the Real Estate gig with your dad so that way you got someone who truly cares about you showing you the ropes on how to be successful and make some Bankroll until oil goes back up and you go back if you want to

[The Black Knight]

Not saying these are the best options; just options:

US Patent and Trade Office - Could get a gig there being a patent examiner or something else. My understanding is that the USPTO has a lot of remote work arrangements. Remote work + steady govt pay = live the easy life anywhere in the US. You might need a masters to get picked up there (like a Masters in Legal Studies focus on patent shit).

Law School - IP Law. You MIGHT be able to carve a niche out.

I think sales is the best option. Potential to make real bank.

[RichieP]

You'll be fine man. If you have a taste for sales, do it, as you say sales + technical chops = $$$. And it's one of the most transferrable/lucrative skills across industries, and maybe the most useful for running your own business further down the line.

[jake1720]

(01-19-2016 12:09 PM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

Not saying these are the best options; just options:

US Patent and Trade Office - Could get a gig there being a patent examiner or something else. My understanding is that the USPTO has a lot of remote work arrangements. Remote work + steady govt pay = live the easy life anywhere in the US. You might need a masters to get picked up there (like a Masters in Legal Studies focus on patent shit).

Law School - IP Law. You MIGHT be able to carve a niche out.

I think sales is the best option. Potential to make real bank.

I might have an in to banking, and I might shoot the family connection a message asking for a job.

I'll give sales a go for a year or two. I think I would be good at it.

[texas]

Man you're in a great position. Do the business venture with your friends and if you have any free time set up a side hustle involving some sales component so you can learn that skill and get exposure to other industries. Maybe something in real estate where you can learn sales but that doesn't require you to be a realtor (getting people to sell you something, ie distressed property, but at a low price).

Take risks and if you believe in the business group see if the opportunity is still there. You are young and resilient. Even if you fuck up, you gain experience (thereby not making it a total loss) and you still have the cushion of time working on your side.

[Tigre]

The network you built among your graduating class is among the biggest benefits from your degree.

Take steps to preserve contact with those people (FB, LinkedIn). Ideally you should be able to help each other get jobs.

Aim to get a couple of years of industry experience, even if the salary isn't megabucks. That will position you well for the next upswing.

[Little_zab]

(01-19-2016 12:00 AM)jake1720 Wrote:  

Hey everyone. I'm a graduating petroleum engineer here and wondering what everyone would do here in this situation. Feel free to chime in with your experiences also.

Oil is dead and will be possibly for the foreseeable future (see the 80's...). For anyone hoping for a sudden comeback in the 80's adjusted for inflation the prices held around 20-something. So what we are looking at right now has already happened in the past.

...Needless to say the decline to $28/bbl surprised many of us, and even our professor now is telling us that the peace corps exists, teach for america, or to go travel or raft for a year. A recruiter at an oil company straight up told me to just go do something else for a while. Basically it is their way of telling us nicely that we are screwed.

There's a lot of uncertainty in the air, and not the good kind. It could be only a few months, or it could be years until oil really does come back. No one really knows. Here are a few options I managed to scramble up within the past few months.

Sales engineer/Pre Sales -- Many of these are remote. If I had a remote job I would travel the US staying with friends and family. Otherwise I would live near an airport in a metropolitan area (Vegas anyone? Hehe). 6 figures from what I read and see.

Technical Sales -- Taking clients out and 6 figures from talking to guys who have done it. Won't make anyone rich but it's definitely not a bad gig either.

I won't get rich, but sales is a pretty transferable skill in which many do use to start their own business later down the line. My dad is doing real estate and I might want to join him there.

Working with a few marketing funnels with some marketing people. I get paid on the side and it may lead to bigger things, so not a bad gig.

Tech/software sales -- I have a friend doing this. Seems extremely lucrative... I was considering this.

I also have a few friends who are in a extremely high caliber business group. I was informally given the opportunity (At least it was there a few months ago) to come on as an employee and then eventually help create a business venture with them. Risky but I am still young so the risk is not that high.

I'd like to make a lot, but at this point I think big law, finance, or med school is out of the question unless I heavily leverage connections. Med school I would hate, law would be a tossup, and finance I might like.

Also working on getting my EU passport, which will take a while. I was thinking about ditching the US and either working for a major corporation or starting a business somewhere in Europe. Does anyone have experience starting a business in Europe? I also heard free grad school if you are a citizen. If I came in with my BS in engineering would finding work be pretty straightforward? Dual citizenship tax laws may be a pain in the ass though.

I feel you man. I was in the oil industry for 8 years and it came to me as shock when I was let go... I will tell you my opinion and let you decide.

As a petroleum engineer you will tend to work in shitty cities. The best city you can land a job in the US is probably Houston. If you are lucky you be can maybe land a job in London or Edinburgh or Paris. In retrospect I wish knew this before joining the industry.

If you really like engineering you can consider the downstream (refinery)... downstream is doing pretty well now. But if I were you, I will look for opportunities in banking/investment/accounting... and when the oilfield comes back these skills can help you as a petroleum engineer... that is if you wanna stay in the oilfield

If you really like hot women, I would totally change field and look for opportunities in other field especially in the tech/software industry.

Either way, you are young and you will be fine

[Special1]

(01-19-2016 12:00 AM)jake1720 Wrote:  

There's a lot of uncertainty in the air, and not the good kind. It could be only a few months, or it could be years until oil really does come back. No one really knows. Here are a few options I managed to scramble up within the past few months.

Oil will not come back - at least not sustainably. Green energy is taking over. Rockerfeller's got out of oil. It could not be clearer. Maybe it will go up to 60 Dollars again. But it won't stay there. I think it will range between 30 and 50 for a while before it will stick between 20 and 30 for a loooong time.

Learn anything else - Sales is good - gives you a broader spectrum to work in for the future.

[hydrogonian]

(04-01-2016 03:08 PM)Special1 Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 12:00 AM)jake1720 Wrote:  

There's a lot of uncertainty in the air, and not the good kind. It could be only a few months, or it could be years until oil really does come back. No one really knows. Here are a few options I managed to scramble up within the past few months.

Oil will not come back - at least not sustainably. Green energy is taking over. Rockerfeller's got out of oil. It could not be clearer. Maybe it will go up to 60 Dollars again. But it won't stay there. I think it will range between 30 and 50 for a while before it will stick between 20 and 30 for a loooong time.

Learn anything else - Sales is good - gives you a broader spectrum to work in for the future.

Lower prices make me think that oil is here to stay, but that it isn't going to be as good as a labor market. Green energy can't compete until it is cheaper than oil. That doesn't seem to be on the horizon until oil prices massively spike or some still unknown technology is invented to harness perhaps solar energy much more efficiently.

[NFallin]

I find it funny how "sales" gets recommended a lot for an easy way to get a six fig gig.

You know how you feel when you get hassled at the mall by those kiosk people or store attendants, yeah that's your job, but now on the corporate level. People are worried about being tired, just want their paycheck, scared that their deadbeat spouse is screwing around, and can't wait for their next vacation. Now you have to fit in there somewhere trying to slang your shit.

Unless your product for your outside sales gig is damn near essential or drugs, it will take years of work and substantial commitment to build your book in a lifestyle of entertaining corporate drones. Most times you will hear from your customers when they, you, or the company has fucked up at 12am on a tuesday night, and things need to be fixed by 10am the next day. Sunday nights are agony as you know come Monday morning your phone will be non stop ringing with problems and you have to make 500 calls that week prospecting for business.

Best thing I ever did for my lifestyle and freedom was walking away from sales. It definitely takes a committed and special person to succeed in the lifestyle of outside sales. Hopefully you are one of the few who were born for it.

[Deepdiver]

I have a good friend whose dad worked for Aramco when he was growing up he built a large group of energy products buyers most Jet Fuel and Deisel and some third world heavy oil that runs in Diesel called Mazut - pollutes like a chimney on fire however plenty burned in Moscow and FSU, China, India, Africa and Asia - the Thrid World runs on oil period.

I visited a group founded by a mid level "Oiligarch" in Moscow in 2010 before the sanctions killed biz in EU and USA (Still the rest of the world though) and nephews were in their early 30s late 20s and were trained in Oil Trading and made a lot of money as intermediaries working with their Uncle's company one was worth 60 Million USD and the Other about 40 Million USD - far more than they could have earned as "employees".

Turns out the uncle was funded via Glencore - yes the infamous Marc Rich company that his proteges anglicized and focused on investing in oil and gaz resources across the FSU especially near central asia and siberia.

Sanctions did not hit this firm much as they did little trading outside the FSU and did not attract the visibility of Gazprom and the Putin mega oligarch cronies. Glencore is based in Switzerland which has via bank safety and low taxes become a world center for Oil, Gaz and most other bulk natural resources trading. One of the worlds largest cargo inspection, testing and quality verification firms is based in Switzerland as well - name escapes me off the top of my head.

With your petroleum engineering background I personally would:

1. Familiarize yourself with latest international trading INCOTERMS read this word for word:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incoterms

2. Spend a summer "hiking" and "hosteling" in Switzerland.

3. Use RVF game to quite frankly go CIA agent and shack up with a hot sexy rich local feminine female to invest in you (Room, Board, Sex) as you work to build your own international trading company - yes game her and sell her on your future potential.

4. Get your foot in the door with your petroleum engineering and incoterms knowledge start even at the bottom of any Swiss energy trader - oil is back to a respectable range bouncing around the 30s and low 40s per barrel so a ULCC or ultra large crude carrier that carries one million barrels is $40 million USD per cargo load so 1% is still a respectable $400K trading margin... live below your means till you can make serious bank or attract whales to your own trading house and have the requisite $50 Million to open an independent Trading Account where you can buy, ship and insure full loads arbitraging between source and demand countries. (Note many US-based Energy firms have moved HQs to Switzerland to optimize against confiscatory Obamaunist or worse tax policies).

5. Set up a native Swiss-based Company and pay yourself a small salary (your salary subject to USA Income Taxes and FATCA rules) whereas the company can be set up in a manner like any US Multinational Offshore and only subject to local Swiss taxes.

6. Work towards Swiss citizenship perhaps with a Swiss wife and a few mistresses and enjoy your fortune in one of the highest quality of life countries on the planet - Swiss have cracked down on mosques and blaring minaret calls to prayers and have made a conscious decision not to become invaded like Germany, Holland, Sweden France and the UK.

7. The Swiss standing Army of all able-bodied Swiss men from 18 to 80 was able to dissuade Hitler from invading so a bunch of low IQ mullahs and their followers not going to invade either.

Do yourself a favor and give it a shot. I would if I were in your shoes.

OBTW read up on FCPA and do not run afoul of this law as long as you are a US citizen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Co...ctices_Act

No bribes just grease:

Regarding payments to foreign officials, the act draws a distinction between bribery and facilitation or "grease payments", which may be permissible under the FCPA, but may still violate local laws. The primary distinction is that grease payments or facilitation payments are made to an official to expedite his performance of the routine duties he is already bound to perform. The exception focuses on the purpose of the payment rather than on its value.Payments to foreign officials may be legal under the FCPA if the payments are permitted under the written laws of the host country. Certain payments or reimbursements relating to product promotion may also be permitted under the FCPA

[Surreyman]

(04-01-2016 03:54 PM)NFallin Wrote:  

I find it funny how "sales" gets recommended a lot for an easy way to get a six fig gig.

You know how you feel when you get hassled at the mall by those kiosk people or store attendants, yeah that's your job, but now on the corporate level. People are worried about being tired, just want their paycheck, scared that their deadbeat spouse is screwing around, and can't wait for their next vacation. Now you have to fit in there somewhere trying to slang your shit.

Unless your product for your outside sales gig is damn near essential or drugs, it will take years of work and substantial commitment to build your book in a lifestyle of entertaining corporate drones. Most times you will hear from your customers when they, you, or the company has fucked up at 12am on a tuesday night, and things need to be fixed by 10am the next day. Sunday nights are agony as you know come Monday morning your phone will be non stop ringing with problems and you have to make 500 calls that week prospecting for business.

Best thing I ever did for my lifestyle and freedom was walking away from sales. It definitely takes a committed and special person to succeed in the lifestyle of outside sales. Hopefully you are one of the few who were born for it.

For a lot of the young men of this forum who want to develop business skills, but don't have a product or service to sell, it's a good option. I've been doing B2B sales for 3 years now, and I've learnt so much in that time.

Ultimately you're right, it's not a dream job, and landing a high paying gig will take a long time. I'm not doing this forever, I'm going to take these skills and use them to work for myself one day.

I recommend it for a 21 year old with a useless degree who doesn't want to make cappuccinos for a living.

[swiss rabbit]

(04-01-2016 06:06 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  

5. Set up a native Swiss-based Company and pay yourself a small salary (your salary subject to USA Income Taxes and FATCA rules) whereas the company can be set up in a manner like any US Multinational Offshore and only subject to local Swiss taxes.

6. Work towards Swiss citizenship perhaps with a Swiss wife and a few mistresses and enjoy your fortune in one of the highest quality of life countries on the planet - Swiss have cracked down on mosques and blaring minaret calls to prayers and have made a conscious decision not to become invaded like Germany, Holland, Sweden France and the UK.

I live in Switzerland but dying to get out, not Swiss but 2 years away from a C Permit - dying to get out due to social life but I know with a C Permit I'll have a lot of opportunity (like setting up a Swiss company)....reading your post gives me 2nd thoughts but still, can't deal with the social aspect of this place anymore....it's like living in the Matrix, like living with a bunch of robots

[jake1720]

(04-01-2016 06:06 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  

I have a good friend whose dad worked for Aramco when he was growing up he built a large group of energy products buyers most Jet Fuel and Deisel and some third world heavy oil that runs in Diesel called Mazut - pollutes like a chimney on fire however plenty burned in Moscow and FSU, China, India, Africa and Asia - the Thrid World runs on oil period.

I visited a group founded by a mid level "Oiligarch" in Moscow in 2010 before the sanctions killed biz in EU and USA (Still the rest of the world though) and nephews were in their early 30s late 20s and were trained in Oil Trading and made a lot of money as intermediaries working with their Uncle's company one was worth 60 Million USD and the Other about 40 Million USD - far more than they could have earned as "employees".

Turns out the uncle was funded via Glencore - yes the infamous Marc Rich company that his proteges anglicized and focused on investing in oil and gaz resources across the FSU especially near central asia and siberia.

Sanctions did not hit this firm much as they did little trading outside the FSU and did not attract the visibility of Gazprom and the Putin mega oligarch cronies. Glencore is based in Switzerland which has via bank safety and low taxes become a world center for Oil, Gaz and most other bulk natural resources trading. One of the worlds largest cargo inspection, testing and quality verification firms is based in Switzerland as well - name escapes me off the top of my head.

With your petroleum engineering background I personally would:

1. Familiarize yourself with latest international trading INCOTERMS read this word for word:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incoterms

2. Spend a summer "hiking" and "hosteling" in Switzerland.

3. Use RVF game to quite frankly go CIA agent and shack up with a hot sexy rich local feminine female to invest in you (Room, Board, Sex) as you work to build your own international trading company - yes game her and sell her on your future potential.

4. Get your foot in the door with your petroleum engineering and incoterms knowledge start even at the bottom of any Swiss energy trader - oil is back to a respectable range bouncing around the 30s and low 40s per barrel so a ULCC or ultra large crude carrier that carries one million barrels is $40 million USD per cargo load so 1% is still a respectable $400K trading margin... live below your means till you can make serious bank or attract whales to your own trading house and have the requisite $50 Million to open an independent Trading Account where you can buy, ship and insure full loads arbitraging between source and demand countries. (Note many US-based Energy firms have moved HQs to Switzerland to optimize against confiscatory Obamaunist or worse tax policies).

5. Set up a native Swiss-based Company and pay yourself a small salary (your salary subject to USA Income Taxes and FATCA rules) whereas the company can be set up in a manner like any US Multinational Offshore and only subject to local Swiss taxes.

6. Work towards Swiss citizenship perhaps with a Swiss wife and a few mistresses and enjoy your fortune in one of the highest quality of life countries on the planet - Swiss have cracked down on mosques and blaring minaret calls to prayers and have made a conscious decision not to become invaded like Germany, Holland, Sweden France and the UK.

7. The Swiss standing Army of all able-bodied Swiss men from 18 to 80 was able to dissuade Hitler from invading so a bunch of low IQ mullahs and their followers not going to invade either.

Do yourself a favor and give it a shot. I would if I were in your shoes.

OBTW read up on FCPA and do not run afoul of this law as long as you are a US citizen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Co...ctices_Act

No bribes just grease:

Regarding payments to foreign officials, the act draws a distinction between bribery and facilitation or "grease payments", which may be permissible under the FCPA, but may still violate local laws. The primary distinction is that grease payments or facilitation payments are made to an official to expedite his performance of the routine duties he is already bound to perform. The exception focuses on the purpose of the payment rather than on its value.Payments to foreign officials may be legal under the FCPA if the payments are permitted under the written laws of the host country. Certain payments or reimbursements relating to product promotion may also be permitted under the FCPA

Oddly enough I have a very good shot at getting EU citizenship within 1-2 years. Do you have any more information on and swiss oil trading firms?

[jake1720]

(01-19-2016 12:09 PM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

Not saying these are the best options; just options:

US Patent and Trade Office - Could get a gig there being a patent examiner or something else. My understanding is that the USPTO has a lot of remote work arrangements. Remote work + steady govt pay = live the easy life anywhere in the US. You might need a masters to get picked up there (like a Masters in Legal Studies focus on patent shit).

Law School - IP Law. You MIGHT be able to carve a niche out.

I think sales is the best option. Potential to make real bank.

Pretty sure all you have to do is pass the FE, most actually end up taking it.