[T and A Man]

Hello all.

Looking for any guidance, not for "see the doctor".

I did a real heavy session on the bag about four days ago, really loading up on big right crosses.

I also used some new gloves. I'm of the belief this is more about wrists and elbows, but free to be corrected.

It was only six hours later I noticed some pain I my right shoulder, thinking it was DOMS. Woke up and quite sore, moreso at the front and top of delt.

Four days later, pain has mostly receded with a minor annoyance, pain increases when lift above 90 degrees and across my body.

Thinking its an AC strain/hyper extended or slightly torn conoid ligament.

I've just worn the pain,reckoning the acute pain is just now swelling pressing up against the clavicle. No sling, or specific rest, etc

Any ideas, tips?

[H1N1]

(01-04-2016 08:27 AM)T and A Man Wrote:  

Hello all.

Looking for any guidance, not for "see the doctor".

I did a real heavy session on the bag about four days ago, really loading up on big right crosses.

I also used some new gloves. I'm of the belief this is more about wrists and elbows, but free to be corrected.

It was only six hours later I noticed some pain I my right shoulder, thinking it was DOMS. Woke up and quite sore, moreso at the front and top of delt.

Four days later, pain has mostly receded with a minor annoyance, pain increases when lift above 90 degrees and across my body.

Thinking its an AC strain/hyper extended or slightly torn conoid ligament.

I've just worn the pain,reckoning the acute pain is just now swelling pressing up against the clavicle. No sling, or specific rest, etc

Any ideas, tips?

What's your sports history, specifically with boxing? Have you got a long history of competitive sport behind you? The reason I ask is that very often people who come to hard training later in life have not developed a full appreciation of the difference between being 'sore', and being injured. The advice we can give will obviously depend on what your starting point is.

Are you a guy who has taught himself off the internet, or someone who trains boxing seriously in a gym with other fighters? Again, if you have bad technique or are relatively green with boxing, you've likely over extended yourself and are either extremely sore, or have a strain. If you're a seasoned pro, more detailed advice might be appropriate.

From the sounds of your post, and with no other knowledge to go on, I'd say it sounds like it is on the mend, and this would likely be helped by light shadow boxing with good technique (if you are self taught off the internet do not do this as you will only be repeating the bad technique that got you hurt in the first place). Other basic mobility stuff like gentle arm circles, light skipping, band dislocates, band face pulls etc would be where I'd start, assuming they did not cause pain, as opposed to soreness. The heavy bag is VERY hard on your joints, and should be use in moderation with good technique. If you can't ddo it with good technique, or try to do too much too soon, it will really make you pay.

[T and A Man]

History is 15 years of rugby. I know soreness vs injury quite well that's for sure. My first instinct was DOMS/muscle tear, due to the onset of pain taking so long. But DOMS would be gone by now.

Day five now, and I still cant sleep on the shoulder.

Also, I now lift weights more serious, have been for a couple of years.

Boxing, no real experience. I see the heavy bags can be brutal ehh? Sounds like too much too soon. I just never gathered the front of my shoulder was at risk, and of course was looking for an experienced guy to help me here.

Thanks

[H1N1]

(01-04-2016 10:17 AM)T and A Man Wrote:  

History is 15 years of rugby. I know soreness vs injury quite well that's for sure. My first instinct was DOMS/muscle tear, due to the onset of pain taking so long. But DOMS would be gone by now.

Day five now, and I still cant sleep on the shoulder.

Also, I now lift weights more serious, have been for a couple of years.

Boxing, no real experience. I see the heavy bags can be brutal ehh? Sounds like too much too soon. I just never gathered the front of my shoulder was at risk, and of course was looking for an experienced guy to help me here.

Thanks

Ah ok cool, no problem, so you know what you're on about then! There are others much better qualified than me to give physio advice - you may well get an inbox message from one of them, but generally, like with minor weightlifting injuries, the best rehab is to start as quickly as possible back doing the movement that injured the muscle in the first place but with minimal resistance (think bodyweight squats if you tore a quad or something).

The front of the shoulder is where most repetitive strain issues occur in boxing, in my experience of myself and others I've trained with. I'm pretty confident I've done what you've done a couple of times. If you trust your technique, do very slow shadow boxing (think 25% speed), and just try to concentrate on letting your arm go through the range of motion. It should be very relaxed, cupped hands not a tight fist, just play really. Really concentrate on being loose and relaxed. I do this all the time and did when I was boxing regularly, and it kept my joints and muscles feeling good.

[Isaac Jordan]

I'm no doctor, but I'd suggest giving collagen supplementation a try.

Most of us aren't getting much (if any) of it in our daily diets, but it's a primary component of the body's joints and tendons. It's been a real game-changer for my recovery, and I couldn't recommend it more highly.

[scorpion]

(01-13-2016 08:19 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

I'm no doctor, but I'd suggest giving collagen supplementation a try.

Most of us aren't getting much (if any) of it in our daily diets, but it's a primary component of the body's joints and tendons. It's been a real game-changer for my recovery, and I couldn't recommend it more highly.

Were you the first guy to recommend this on the forum? I need to thank you if so. This stuff is absolutely fantastic. I've been taking it for a few months now and it's one of, if not the single most noticeably effective supplements I've taken. It's almost entirely eliminated nagging joint soreness in the day or two following a heavy lifting session (particularly squats and deadlifts). I would call it nothing less than an absolute must for any man 25+ who wants optimal health, and especially for guys lifting weights. It's become a staple supplement for me along with the proven favorites like Vitamin D3, fish oil, Zinc, Vitamin C and Magnesium. Anyone on the fence about ordering collagen, I encourage you to give it a try. I can personally vouch for it 100%.

[Isaac Jordan]

(01-13-2016 09:41 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 08:19 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

I'm no doctor, but I'd suggest giving collagen supplementation a try.

Most of us aren't getting much (if any) of it in our daily diets, but it's a primary component of the body's joints and tendons. It's been a real game-changer for my recovery, and I couldn't recommend it more highly.

Were you the first guy to recommend this on the forum? I need to thank you if so. This stuff is absolutely fantastic. I've been taking it for a few months now and it's one of, if not the single most noticeably effective supplements I've taken. It's almost entirely eliminated nagging joint soreness in the day or two following a heavy lifting session (particularly squats and deadlifts). I would call it nothing less than an absolute must for any man 25+ who wants optimal health, and especially for guys lifting weights. It's become a staple supplement for me along with the proven favorites like Vitamin D3, fish oil, Zinc, Vitamin C and Magnesium. Anyone on the fence about ordering collagen, I encourage you to give it a try. I can personally vouch for it 100%.

Not sure if I was the first, but I've posted about it a few times. Glad to hear it's helped you out. My experience has been much the same, I don't go a day without it now.

[mickeyd]

(01-04-2016 08:27 AM)T and A Man Wrote:  

Hello all.

Looking for any guidance, not for "see the doctor".

I did a real heavy session on the bag about four days ago, really loading up on big right crosses.

I also used some new gloves. I'm of the belief this is more about wrists and elbows, but free to be corrected.

It was only six hours later I noticed some pain I my right shoulder, thinking it was DOMS. Woke up and quite sore, moreso at the front and top of delt.

Four days later, pain has mostly receded with a minor annoyance, pain increases when lift above 90 degrees and across my body.

Thinking its an AC strain/hyper extended or slightly torn conoid ligament.

I've just worn the pain,reckoning the acute pain is just now swelling pressing up against the clavicle. No sling, or specific rest, etc

Any ideas, tips?

In my experience, the only way to get rid of acute, nagging injuries is total and complete rest of the injured area. Focus on very light stretching, light massaging, and gentle mobility exercises for the next 2 months (or longer depending on whats injured). Yes you will get weaker, but pushing forward could lead to severe problems/surgery (you might have a minor partial tear somewhere)

And next time you go at another heavy bag session, do 10 minutes warm up by throwing shots and combos at half speed/no power to check your motion and the alignment of your arm and body.

[kbell]

Does the collagen absorb better when its in the powdered form rather than pill form?

I think you can use that to make jello too and marshmallows.

[Designate]

(01-13-2016 09:41 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 08:19 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

I'm no doctor, but I'd suggest giving collagen supplementation a try.

Most of us aren't getting much (if any) of it in our daily diets, but it's a primary component of the body's joints and tendons. It's been a real game-changer for my recovery, and I couldn't recommend it more highly.

Were you the first guy to recommend this on the forum? I need to thank you if so. This stuff is absolutely fantastic. I've been taking it for a few months now and it's one of, if not the single most noticeably effective supplements I've taken. It's almost entirely eliminated nagging joint soreness in the day or two following a heavy lifting session (particularly squats and deadlifts). I would call it nothing less than an absolute must for any man 25+ who wants optimal health, and especially for guys lifting weights. It's become a staple supplement for me along with the proven favorites like Vitamin D3, fish oil, Zinc, Vitamin C and Magnesium. Anyone on the fence about ordering collagen, I encourage you to give it a try. I can personally vouch for it 100%.

I co-sign this. Collagen supplements have been a great addition for me in my fitness routine recovery.

I'll also add Turmeric Curcumin+Bioperine supplement to the list that I've had personal success with in the same regard. I wrote a bit about my experience using it for routine recovery purposes here.

[Isaac Jordan]

(01-14-2016 11:22 PM)kbell Wrote:  

Does the collagen absorb better when its in the powdered form rather than pill form?

I've never taken collagen pills, but I assume that powder would be faster. The pills are likely just filled with powder anyway, so you're simply adding however long it takes for your stomach acid to break through the pill barrier.

You're going to want to supplement with multiple tablespoons even if you're not injured, though, so trying to go about it through pills would get tedious.

[Sidney Crosby]

Ask Dr. Kahn

[Thomas the Rhymer]

If you have pain lifting above 90 degrees then that is almost always a rotator cuff tendon injury. The pain is due to the swollen tendon rubbing against the acromion (which does not normally happen when the tendon is not swollen)

My guesstimate from experience: 90% of the time that will heal with rest (2-4 weeks) and anti-inflammatories, eg ibuprofen. You should be able to buy ibuprofen or diclofenac (I personally prefer the latter for it's stronger anti-inflammatory action, although ibuprofen is stronger as a painkiller) from a pharmacy without a prescription. You can take it with paracetamol (aka acetaminophen/tylenol in North America) if the pain is unbearable, although a little pain is good - it forces you to be aware of the injury in your shoulder, preventing reinjury.

Also don't go straight back into the exercise with full intensity after recovery, build up the intensity.

If there is still some residual pain after the acute injury, shoulder mobility exercises should help. Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoGtrEcsqPQ

If still having pain, at that point you may need a doctor or at least a physiotherapist.

[GetPhat]

(01-13-2016 09:41 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 08:19 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

I'm no doctor, but I'd suggest giving collagen supplementation a try.

Most of us aren't getting much (if any) of it in our daily diets, but it's a primary component of the body's joints and tendons. It's been a real game-changer for my recovery, and I couldn't recommend it more highly.

Were you the first guy to recommend this on the forum? I need to thank you if so. This stuff is absolutely fantastic. I've been taking it for a few months now and it's one of, if not the single most noticeably effective supplements I've taken. It's almost entirely eliminated nagging joint soreness in the day or two following a heavy lifting session (particularly squats and deadlifts). I would call it nothing less than an absolute must for any man 25+ who wants optimal health, and especially for guys lifting weights. It's become a staple supplement for me along with the proven favorites like Vitamin D3, fish oil, Zinc, Vitamin C and Magnesium. Anyone on the fence about ordering collagen, I encourage you to give it a try. I can personally vouch for it 100%.

Same here. I've been taking it for almost a month now and it's been a great addition.