[CocoBoy]

I use the myfitnesspal app to make sure I get enough calories and keep track of my macros and I see this big blog post in my face https://blog.myfitnesspal.com/whole-whea...y-muffins/

What planet are these people on that they post some baked muffins on a fitness blog? (yes it is a woman). They haven't even tried to use healthy ingredients, just look at this shit:

1 3/4 cups (210 grams) whole wheat pastry flour
1 teaspoon cinnamon
1 teaspoon baking powder
1 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon salt
3/4 cup (150 grams) coconut sugar (0r sugar of choice)
1/3 cup (80 grams) unsweetened applesauce
1/3 cup (70 grams) vegetable oil
1/4 cup (60 grams) low-fat milk
1/4 cup (55 grams) nonfat Greek yogurt
3 tablespoons orange juice
1 large (50 grams) egg
Zest from 1 medium orange
1 1/4 cup (140 grams) fresh cranberries
1/2 cup white chocolate chips
1 teaspoon dried orange peel (optional)
Turbinado sugar for topping (optional)

There is literally only 2 or 3 items on that list which are healthy. Aside from the obviously crap stuff like whole whole wheat flour, sugar and vegetable oil. They are using the nutritionless low fat milk, no fat yoghurt It would be difficult to use a more unhealthy recipe if you tried.

The sad thing is I can totally picture a bunch of overweight ladies following this recipe and patting themselves on the back saying they are eating healthy

[Hannibal]

I would get dementia if I had to type all that shit into myfitnesspal.

Do you know who makes desserts like Paleo pancakes and Keto cheesecake? It's women. Women make these because they have a very emotional attachment to food.

Women will spend years eating shitty food, TV dinners, donuts, cheesecake, brownies, cupcakes, candybars, and icecream then wash all that shit down with Starbucks lattes and those gay premixed protein drinks that have all of fifteen grams of soy and thirty grams of sugar.

Then when they decide to diet, they have this all or nothing mentality. One single deviation, one cheat meal and they fall right off the fucking wagon and abandon their goals entirely.


edit: I have no idea what a muffin recipe has to do with conventional nutrition wisdom.

What do you mean by conventional nutrition wisdom? As far as I can tell, the conventional wisdom is still low fat, high grain, low to moderate protein intake.

[CocoBoy]

(01-11-2016 03:04 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  

edit: I have no idea what a muffin recipe has to do with conventional nutrition wisdom.

1) It's on a fitness blog
2) She claims the recipe is "healthy"
3) People will follow her and believe her
4) Obesity prevails

Only the conventional nutrition wisdom allows this retarded scenario to continue, and yes you described it accurately.

[Hannibal]

If chicks are reading a fitness website, even stupid bullshit like low fat muffins are still a somewhat better option than regular ones. If you're going to be "healthy" and you absolutely can't live without a muffin, then yeah, this recipe is "healthy".

I agree that conventional nutrition is pretty messed up. However, if you're going to eat a lot of carbs, you might as well dial down the fat.

From my intermediate understanding, you want protein relatively high (1 g per lb bodyweight is fine) and your carbs and fats inversely proportional. Eat tons of salads, take a multivitamin, and don't forget fish oil.

Muffins with weird lists of "healthy" substituted ingredients, that's just chicks being chicks. Women go on weird diet kicks and do all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify their food choices.

My sister, for example, went on this low carb diet where she decided that bread made from flax meal was a good idea. If it helps with compliance to a diet then I would say it's a good thing even though it looks dumb as fuck and I'd never be caught dead buying half those ingredients from a grocery store.

[germanico]

(01-11-2016 01:37 AM)CocoBoy Wrote:  

What planet are these people on that they post some baked muffins on a fitness blog? (yes it is a woman).

Leave it to a woman to add a couple dozen shit ingredients to a recipe that perhaps needs 4. Its muffins, should be flour, eggs, shortening and perhaps a pinch of salt.

Quote:

bread made from flax meal

I remember once making no-flour muffins from what I had around in my pantry. Cant recall all I used but it was mostly flax seeds, ground sunflower kernels, whole eggs and a mashed banana. They where good, nice texture, and had no need for sweetener. With such ingredients, it can hardly count as "unhealthy"

[Hades]

Just to pop in. Flax seed is estrogenic. That is all.

[The Beast1]

Women are the worst enemies to their own self improvement.

For starters, all female fitness and nutrition advice is absolute trash followed by fitness advice which seems to consist of yoga, running, cycling, running some more, running, and did I forget to mention running?

As much hate as crossfit gets, at least it gets girls using free weights. I know a girl at my gym who lifts only free weights and f*ck she is super fine. The tightest body you can imagine.

When it comes to nutrition, I just face palm even more. My room mate's girl friend refuses to eat anything with cheese in it(chick is french FFS) and also has other weird things she doesn't like. I think coriander is one of them.

She made this dinner once that consisted of heavy cream and potatoes. My girl has a similar recipe that is heavy cream, potatoes, cheese, and an assortment of spices. Chick gets jealous when her boyfriend eats my food and loves it. I get the impression she is starving him to keep him cut. The gent has great ab genetics without working out.

She eats a diet of high carbs, low fat, and zero protein. Seeing this just makes me want to throttle the chick. No wonder she's starting to wall out.

[realologist]

I'm pretty sure its well known to just about everyone on the forum and a lot of people in fitness how messed up "ideal" nutrition is.

This is the food pyramid we were shown when I was a kid and lasted a long time.


Here seems to be a more updated one which is a better.


People still think a quadruple serving size bowl of pasta with a heavy sauce, a little bit of chicken in the pasta and garlic butter breadsticks is a healthy meal.

Then they can work it off by lazily walking on an elliptical for 30 minutes barely breaking a sweat while talking a break every 5 minutes on their phone.

Why Americans are so fat is no mystery to me.

[Windom Earle]

(01-11-2016 07:32 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Just to pop in. Flax seed is estrogenic. That is all.

I appreciate the pop in, thanks Hades.

A comprehensive list of all foods that are estrogenic would be a good thing to have too.

Is there such a list?

[CocoBoy]

realologist, I'm more inclined to go with the South Park one:

[Architekt]

Wisdom/common knowledge/common sense/tradition just isn't a thing anymore

It's incredible that amongst all this amazing technology, scientific breakthroughs, and easier access to information than there has ever been in history, ignorance is the norm, and anyone who is informed in some way is usually labeled crazy, or has some kind of strange incongruities in their beliefs that make you wonder whether they're genuinely able to hold such conflicting ideas or are just parrots that happened to be in the right place at some stage

[Designate]

(01-11-2016 08:14 AM)Windom Earle Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 07:32 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Just to pop in. Flax seed is estrogenic. That is all.

I appreciate the pop in, thanks Hades.

A comprehensive list of all foods that are estrogenic would be a good thing to have too.

Is there such a list?

There is good information in both of these threads on estrogenic high foods/drinks. Especially Hannibal's posts in the beer belly thread:

thread-50817.html

thread-51922.html

[Hannibal]

(10-21-2015 01:15 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  

Alrighty.

As a disclaimer, heavy drinking in general nukes your testosterone levels. It doesn't really matter what you're drinking if you're getting smashed every other night, your testosterone production will suffer. So if you're not an alcoholic, you have nothing to worry about in that department.

Also, this isn't to discourage anyone from having a casual beer once or twice a week. A couple beers is not going to effect you that much. Neither will a glass or two of wine. This is merely a breakdown that illustrates which drinks have the least impact on your testosterone levels.

I also shouldn't have to justify why having high testosterone is essential for all men. Testosterone is the chemical that makes you a man. Having higher testosterone means that you will be leaner, more muscular, and more virile.

With that said, here is a breakdown of the different types of alcohol and which ones to pick to lessen your phytoestrogenic load.

Beer

Beer is made with hops, which is a well known estrogenic compound. This isn't a tin foil hat conspiracy, it's real and you can definitely look it up. There are tons of foods containing phytoestrogens; the hops from beer has quite a bit of it.

Some folks say that the estrogenic effect is overblown, but when estrogen is in your own fucking tap water I find that the better solution is to cut back or cut out completely. Better safe than sorry. If you don't believe me, look up "brewer's droop". Guys in the middle ages who brewed beer for a living tended to feminize after handling large amounts of hops on a daily basis.

Symptoms of high estrogen in men include:

• Infertility. Estrogen is partly responsible for creating healthy sperm. When estrogen levels are high, sperm levels in semen may fall. This can lead to fertility issues.
• Gynecomastia. Estrogen may stimulate breast tissue growth. Men with too much estrogen may start developing larger breasts.
• Erectile dysfunction. A balance of both testosterone and estrogen is important for healthy sexual growth and development. Sexual function may be impacted when these hormones become imbalanced. Men with high levels of estrogen may have difficulty getting or maintaining an erection.
  

For a man who wants to limit his exposure to estrogens, beer is a no-go.

Wines

Wines are unfortunately not much different than beer.

Here is a chart that describes how many milligrams of phytoestrogens are in 100 grams of each (that is 100 grams of "wet weight").



So red wine is a no go if you're all about minimizing phytoestrogenic load.

White wine is by far the best, and the drier the better. Sugar has a tendency to dampen testosterone levels.

Liquor

It looks like most hard liquors are a safe bet. Whiskey, gin, and vodka for sure. I could not find too much information on this, but I did find this source. Whiskey and gin are many many times lower in phytoestrogens then beer or even red wine. I'm sure rum and vodka are also safe bets. I'm not sure which source I looked up earlier that said whiskey was estrogenic because I couldn't find it just now.

Since we know sugar lowers testosterone levels, I recommend sticking to hard liquor on the rocks or neat. If you don't care about aspartame you can throw in some diet soda.

So to all the folks who say that calories in = calories out, that's a model that works well "in a vacuum", but there's a lot more to it than simply how much you eat. If what you're eating doesn't support optimal hormonal levels, you're going to be fatter and weaker. This isn't something that happens if you eat tofu once in a while, it's a cumulative effect over time; a negative feedback loop. It's damn well worth your time to know what foods are high in phytoestrogens.

To add to this, if you want to go on the offensive to reduce your estrogenic load, here is a list of things you could do. I won't go into too much detail because I have lots of shit to do today.


-Eat lots of cruciferous vegetables. Make sure you wash them first, or any benefit gleaned from them will be canceled out by all the pesticides.

-Take your supplements like fish oil and magnesium

-Get plenty of sleep.

-Eat more wasabi. It contains a chemical (diidolymethane), which helps inhibits aromatase aka the conversion of testosterone to estrogen.

-Get a water filter that will filter out estrogen. If you drink city water, you are drinking estrogen in the form of birth control.

-The obvious one, lift weights.

-If you eat lots of sugar, stop. Sugar nukes your testosterone. No man should eat more than thirty grams of it a day.

-Get leaner. Fat dampens testosterone.

You can interchange "how to increase testosterone" with "how to reduce estrogenic load" and come up with a very similar list.

[germanico]

(01-11-2016 08:14 AM)Windom Earle Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 07:32 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Just to pop in. Flax seed is estrogenic. That is all.

I appreciate the pop in, thanks Hades.

Yeah, thanks for the heads up. I still have a ziploc full of them left, Ill just give it to the birds.

[nek]

I thought nuts were suppose to be good for you?

[Balkan]

(01-11-2016 11:49 PM)nek Wrote:  

I thought nuts were suppose to be good for you?

This list seems insane. Hopefully, the high phytoestrogen level of nuts isn't true.

By the way for the guys that aren't familiar with conversions. 1000ug=1mg. Therefore, 100g of Brazil nuts has 867,000ug of phytoestrogen and would top the list above flax seeds/soy products. Furthermore, all the other nuts mentioned contain 111,000-427,000ug phytoestrogen/100g sample. Following this logic, looks like most nuts should be avoided. This is especially annoying because nuts are a stable in many ketogenic/IF diets.

[Uncircumcised Coke Can]

(01-11-2016 02:24 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 01:15 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  

Alrighty.

As a disclaimer, heavy drinking in general nukes your testosterone levels. It doesn't really matter what you're drinking if you're getting smashed every other night, your testosterone production will suffer. So if you're not an alcoholic, you have nothing to worry about in that department.

Also, this isn't to discourage anyone from having a casual beer once or twice a week. A couple beers is not going to effect you that much. Neither will a glass or two of wine. This is merely a breakdown that illustrates which drinks have the least impact on your testosterone levels.

I also shouldn't have to justify why having high testosterone is essential for all men. Testosterone is the chemical that makes you a man. Having higher testosterone means that you will be leaner, more muscular, and more virile.

With that said, here is a breakdown of the different types of alcohol and which ones to pick to lessen your phytoestrogenic load.

Beer

Beer is made with hops, which is a well known estrogenic compound. This isn't a tin foil hat conspiracy, it's real and you can definitely look it up. There are tons of foods containing phytoestrogens; the hops from beer has quite a bit of it.

Some folks say that the estrogenic effect is overblown, but when estrogen is in your own fucking tap water I find that the better solution is to cut back or cut out completely. Better safe than sorry. If you don't believe me, look up "brewer's droop". Guys in the middle ages who brewed beer for a living tended to feminize after handling large amounts of hops on a daily basis.

Symptoms of high estrogen in men include:

• Infertility. Estrogen is partly responsible for creating healthy sperm. When estrogen levels are high, sperm levels in semen may fall. This can lead to fertility issues.
• Gynecomastia. Estrogen may stimulate breast tissue growth. Men with too much estrogen may start developing larger breasts.
• Erectile dysfunction. A balance of both testosterone and estrogen is important for healthy sexual growth and development. Sexual function may be impacted when these hormones become imbalanced. Men with high levels of estrogen may have difficulty getting or maintaining an erection.
  

For a man who wants to limit his exposure to estrogens, beer is a no-go.

Wines

Wines are unfortunately not much different than beer.

Here is a chart that describes how many milligrams of phytoestrogens are in 100 grams of each (that is 100 grams of "wet weight").



So red wine is a no go if you're all about minimizing phytoestrogenic load.

White wine is by far the best, and the drier the better. Sugar has a tendency to dampen testosterone levels.

Liquor

It looks like most hard liquors are a safe bet. Whiskey, gin, and vodka for sure. I could not find too much information on this, but I did find this source. Whiskey and gin are many many times lower in phytoestrogens then beer or even red wine. I'm sure rum and vodka are also safe bets. I'm not sure which source I looked up earlier that said whiskey was estrogenic because I couldn't find it just now.

Since we know sugar lowers testosterone levels, I recommend sticking to hard liquor on the rocks or neat. If you don't care about aspartame you can throw in some diet soda.

So to all the folks who say that calories in = calories out, that's a model that works well "in a vacuum", but there's a lot more to it than simply how much you eat. If what you're eating doesn't support optimal hormonal levels, you're going to be fatter and weaker. This isn't something that happens if you eat tofu once in a while, it's a cumulative effect over time; a negative feedback loop. It's damn well worth your time to know what foods are high in phytoestrogens.

To add to this, if you want to go on the offensive to reduce your estrogenic load, here is a list of things you could do. I won't go into too much detail because I have lots of shit to do today.


-Eat lots of cruciferous vegetables. Make sure you wash them first, or any benefit gleaned from them will be canceled out by all the pesticides.

-Take your supplements like fish oil and magnesium

-Get plenty of sleep.

-Eat more wasabi. It contains a chemical (diidolymethane), which helps inhibits aromatase aka the conversion of testosterone to estrogen.

-Get a water filter that will filter out estrogen. If you drink city water, you are drinking estrogen in the form of birth control.

-The obvious one, lift weights.

-If you eat lots of sugar, stop. Sugar nukes your testosterone. No man should eat more than thirty grams of it a day.

-Get leaner. Fat dampens testosterone.

You can interchange "how to increase testosterone" with "how to reduce estrogenic load" and come up with a very similar list.

So much bro science in this post...

Glucose causes a temporary reduction in test levels.

Hormone levels are never in stasis. They go up and down throughout the day due to a variety of factors. This isn't a bad thing.

Glucose also plays a vital role in resetting leptin levels - which in turn elevates testosterone levels. Low carb diets cause low testosterone. (There's umpteen studies showing that.)

As for phytoestrogens...

Eating these is not akin to injecting yourself with estrogen. Phytoestrogens can actually BOOST testosterone.

Just look at that chart. Most of those foods are good for you. Olive oil and nuts are loaded with monounsaturated fats - a proven test booster.

If you're not going to do basic research into the endocrine system, it's probably best you don't post on the subject. Telling guys to dodge perfectly healthy foods is irresponsible.

[Hannibal]

(01-12-2016 01:26 AM)Uncircumcised Coke Can Wrote:  

So much bro science in this post...

Glucose causes a temporary reduction in test levels.

Hormone levels are never in stasis. They go up and down throughout the day due to a variety of factors. This isn't a bad thing.

Glucose also plays a vital role in resetting leptin levels - which in turn elevates testosterone levels. Low carb diets cause low testosterone. (There's umpteen studies showing that.)

As for phytoestrogens...

Eating these is not akin to injecting yourself with estrogen. Phytoestrogens can actually BOOST testosterone.

Just look at that chart. Most of those foods are good for you. Olive oil and nuts are loaded with monounsaturated fats - a proven test booster.

If you're not going to do basic research into the endocrine system, it's probably best you don't post on the subject. Telling guys to dodge perfectly healthy foods is irresponsible.

Instead of eating white or brown rice for carbs, eat a pound of Swedish Fish every day for a month and tell me how you feel at the end of it. You talk about broscience yet you can't figure out that I said sugar and not glucose.

Sugar has no place in a serious diet outside of what you're getting from fruit. Sugar doesn't boost Leptin, either. Neither does fructose. In the average man, once you get past 50 grams a day, your body stores it as fat because it has to process through the liver. You can actually eat a caloric deficit every day on sugar and still get fatter.

Again, I'm not talking about low carb. Carbs are essential for gaining mass and for optimal hormonal levels. Most keto diets worth a shit still have them on certain days for the exact reason you described. They call them refeeds.

Yeah, it's a chart. It has a range from high to low. Avoid the higher sources and feel free to feed on the lower ones. The thread I posted it in was about avoiding a beer belly, to which I responded "avoid beer". If you're regularly slamming a twelve pack, switch to liquor and see what happens.

Lower to moderate sources are fine as long as you're not eating pounds of it a day. Even if you wanted to, you can't avoid all of them and lower amounts are healthy.

[Anabasis to Desta]

I think nutrition is at its infant stages as a science. There is so much conflicting information floating around, all supposedly backed up by science that it's hard for me to believe any one of them.

Instead, i have decided to forget everything "science" says in favor of experimenting with different diets and listening to my body.

Paleo is supposed to be good for you. I've done it for 3 months and felt like shit everyday. My body needs carbs and i don't give a flying fuck what the latest paleo advocates say. Same goes with Apple Cider Vinegar. It's a forum staple highly recommended by a lot of top guys here. But it tastes bad. Not bad as in tasteless like veggies. But actually repulsive like my body is telling me "Don't do it nigga. This shit is poison". So fuck that too.

Drinking lots of water, eating a lot of fish, veggies, fruits and whole grain pasta works for me. I feel good. Brown rice? Not so good. We all have different ancestries and genetics. Plantain, Cassava and yams might give someone with West African ancestry a lot of energy, but I've tried them as my primary carb source and always felt sluggish. My body needs grains.

Listen to your body.

[The Beast1]

With all of the foods that contain phytoestrogens, are there any foods that are phytoandrogens?

It seems everything out there wants to feminize us. There have to be a few foods that have phytoandrogenic effects.

[Uncircumcised Coke Can]

Hannibal,

The study YOU linked to for the damaging effects of "sugar" actually gave the participants glucose...

Part of the problem is you don't seem to understand the concept of sugar. Glucose IS a sugar. It's more readily converted to glycogen than the common 'table sugar' aka sucrose. As I'm sure you know, glycogen is pretty important.

Regarding phytoestrogens, there's very little evidence that shows they decrease test. (In fact - there are studies showing the opposite). It's in no way similar to a steroidal compound.

With so many otherwise healthy plants being laden with phytoestrogens, one has to draw the conclusion that they're actually good for you in moderate amounts.

[Anabasis to Desta]

(01-12-2016 10:37 AM)Uncircumcised Coke Can Wrote:  

Hannibal,

The study YOU linked to for the damaging effects of "sugar" actually gave the participants glucose...

Part of the problem is you don't seem to understand the concept of sugar. Glucose IS a sugar. It's more readily converted to glycogen than the common 'table sugar' aka sucrose. As I'm sure you know, glycogen is pretty important.

Regarding phytoestrogens, there's very little evidence that shows they decrease test. (In fact - there are studies showing the opposite). It's in no way similar to a steroidal compound.

With so many otherwise healthy plants being laden with phytoestrogens, one has to draw the conclusion that they're actually good for you in moderate amounts.

^ How does it feel to have won the internet today with your username Uncircumcised Coke Can?

[Uncircumcised Coke Can]

^Lol that's a slight derail...

But the store behind it is a funny one. In short - a blonde bimbo I shagged in Arizona a few year back gave me the nick. I was so flattered...I've kept it ever since.

[Guitarman]

So what is the red pill thinking on diets and weight loss?? Low carbs and low sugar??

[CocoBoy]

I've been on and off Paleo for the last 5 years, I've never been overweight but I just feel awesome when I cut out all unnatural shit.

I mostly did it for my skin, when I carb it up (especially wheat) my skin turns to shit. When I go strict paleo I have perfect clear skin, I think that's my bodies way of telling me how I should be eating.

Also in terms of weight loss, it almost works too well, I find it hard to bulk up without carbs but I'm not any less stronger. I just don't look it, which is a bit of a shame.

To put it simply you should cut out vegetable oils, sugar and wheat as the worst 3 offenders.

If you need carbs then your best choice is sweet potatoes, whilst white rice and white potatoes are ok in moderation on workout days. They are not toxic but it's still not good to over consume them as they will turn to sugar.

Get most of your calories from healthy fats like olive oil, coconut oil, eggs, avocados, nuts, fatty fish, nut butters, cheese etc...

Alongside that eat plenty of vegetables, meat and fruits in moderation.

I guarantee if you stick to that you will lose weight and feel great.