[VincentVinturi]

I was re-watching the must-see video of Yuri Bezmenov, former KGB spy, talk about the means by which a nation is "subverted".

One of his very first points was that subversion is a two-way street.

A nation must be *receptive* to subversion in order to be subverted.

Likewise, a non-receptive (aka "xenophobic") nation cannot be subverted.


He gave the example of pre-20th century Japan.

Back then when visitors arrived on Japan's shores they were curtly told to turn back around and get lost, or else...

What one might term xenophobia - from "xeno" (foreign, strange) + "phobia" (fear of) - was actually the mechanism by which Japan preserved its culture, its values, its language, its traditions and of course its borders.


Michael Savage has said that what defines a nation is its borders, language, and culture.

If this is true then dismantling a nation is a matter of introducing foreign cultural elements, a foreign language, and blurring the borders of a country (think USA/Mexico border).

I've often wondered how it is that despite the huge Western cultural influence present in Thailand in the form of both bodies on the ground and incessant Western media, Thais have still managed to retain much of their culture, traditions, language, food, etc.

I believe a large part of their immunity to the Western cultural virus lay in their 'xenophobia'.

Thais are unabashed about their dislike of certain nationalities (Indians, Arabs, Russians, Chinese, Africans, etc., to varying degrees).

They are unabashed about their dislike of other Thais for that matter; those of lower status or darker skin, or from poor backgrounds.

They call all non-Thais 'farang' which means foreigner and makes no distinction between a foreigner from the USA or a foreigner from Kazakhstan.

You're a foreigner, a foreign element and therefore you are not one of us.

We will tolerate you because of the money and opportunity you bring, but that's about the extent to which we welcome you.

At least that's the general vibe I get.


One of the channels through which a nation is destabilized and set on the path towards subversion is the augmentation of the natural bargaining process.

Party A has 5 sacks of rice.

Party B has 2 chickens.

Party A and Party B get together and decide to trade.

When party C comes along (the gumint) and says to A and B "give me your rice and chickens and *I* will redistribute them accordingly" this marks the death of natural exchange.

In Thailand, every little street corner has some kind of market or conglomeration of hawkers selling pineapples or sausages or kids clothing, or squid or whatever.

People meet, interact, haggle, dine together, and walk away with mutually beneficial exchanges.

Even though Western style fixed price markets are slowly encroaching on Thailand, it is still all about the bazaar here.


I've said in another thread that I believe we are all naturally racist.

We have an inherent distrust of people not of our ilk.

There have been studies done on babies indicating that this is inherent not learned behavior.

It's through necessity to cooperate in business, trade, diplomatic affairs, etc., that we put aside this dislike and come to understandings and even friendships with people whom we may viscerally initially dislike.

Otherwise, most of us would prefer to stick to our own kind.


And I can certainly see the Thai perspective.

They have an old, beautiful, highly ritualistic culture that includes music, dance, food, traditions, religion.

People are polite, smiling, respectful.

Can you blame them for wanting to keep out Western influences that would turn their lilting songs, sung by beautiful women in glimmering robes and gold into Miley Cyrus with a strap on?

Can you blame them for wanting to prevent rude, demanding foreigners from corrupting their sense of etiquette and politeness and willingness to help a fellow Thai?

Can you blame them for not wanting to trade their delicious, spicy, nutrient dense soups, curries, salads and fresh fruit for disgusting, processed shit churned out by factories and bought in a freezing store that looks like an airplane hangar?

I sure as fuck can't.

There's a reason the Thai government censors a lot of media.


Preserving one's culture has been vilified as xenophobia.

And we are constantly beaten over the head with multicultural values.

Can cultures really co-exist peacefully without sacrificing their unique identities?

I would argue no.

Malaysia comes to mind as an incredibly diverse country with Chinese, Tamil, Malay, Arabic cultures living side by side.

Yet they all live in their own neighborhoods, stick to their own kind, speak their own languages, worship their own gods, and vie for power and status in the overall power structure.

They bear each other and do business, but they're not prancing hand in hand down the Jalan, that's for fucking sure.


Perhaps America was doomed from day one precisely because of its melting pot nature.

Put a bunch of cultures side by side, and what then does an "american" identity look like?

Is it Italian, Irish, Polish, Indian, what?


National pride and a certain sense of xenophobia is a powerful inoculation against corrupting foreign influences.

[262]

Three points:

1) I think it's about balance.

The above post makes the case against too little xenophobia. I'll buy it.

But too much of it can also be harmful.

Imagine Thailand without being open to foreign tourism. You basically get pre-2012 Burma - a notably poorer, but culturally similar, neighboring country.

Imagine South Korea without any Western influence. You basically get North Korea. Enough said.

Note that I'm not saying, "let anything in!" or that any country has it right. Just saying it's about balance.

2) Also note that some Thais - especially the richer ones - usually have some, if not all, Chinese ancestors. As I understand, once assimilated, they are not considered farang.

3) One way to get the balance I made in point one right is by having the right system in place. Basically, capitalism instead of socialism.

As I understand, nobody goes to Thailand to collect welfare checks.

They go because they have something to contribute - tourism dollars, business ideas, labor, etc.

That's what used to make America great, IMO.

[PolymathGuru]

I would argue the point it isn't that we need Xenophobia but an anti-multicultural stance. Japan was the only Asian nation that actually allowed foreigners to some degree.

In his own case of Japan, keep in mind Japan was the ONLY Asian country not subject to western imperialism. It was the only Asian Nation that was trained by western armies(Germany and Britain). They in turned used that knowledge to become imperialist themselves.

Keep in mind Oda Nobunaga used Portuguese designed rifles to conquer Japan. He was the only Shogunate that utilized western trade to expand his resources for the conquest of Japan.

However, what we need to realize it is not about having "all ideas are equal" like multiculturalism. What we need to be able to is accumulate the best of ideas.

[Onto]

Nice post and I agree with it, except I believe it was Women's rights that destroyed America.

[Laner]

While I agree with most of what you said, I might argue the "everyone is a little racist" idea. Perhaps you meant that we practice stereotypes?

I dont think I have met any, or perhaps very few, actually racist people. I hold the idea that they are actually a very rare character. But I do believe in stereotypes and I fully acknowledge that this has kept me safe numerous times: in latin America (stay away from youth after midnight), in Marseille (eye contact from Arab youths at night likely means business) and so many other examples. I was taught from experience as well as my father and his stereotypes (as a troubled minority youth, do not trust police) and his father, etc, etc.

Japan is an interesting one though. Xenophobia is often thrown around, but the fact is that Japanese people like and appreciate foreign people there- though some barely tolerate us- but only when they are able to fully appropriate the best from our cultures and steadfastly push out the worst.

An example is during the auto boom of the 90's when they needed workers for their factories. The west was obviously pushing the immigration on the world, and Japan tried their first experiment with it. But they were understandably wary, so they thought the best way would be to let foreigners in who had Japanese ancestry or mixed heritage. Many of these people came from Brazil and while it turned out to work somewhat, a lot of Brazilians ended up straight for the easy life and began pushing drugs, working for the Yaks doing illegal auto trade, etc. Crime went up in certain areas, street harassment became a huge deal and the Japanese right wing were able to say "I told you so".

[Mr. Brightside]

I've always struggled with this topic. I think a group's political and social ideology is the most important aspect of their culture. Xenophobia, to me, is ultimately an irrational reaction by people afraid of otherness. Furthermore, tying your sense of identity to a culture/region/bordered political entity is just as blue pill as tying your sense of identity to your gender or race. Perhaps that's why something like the Japanese venture into immigration didn't work out as planned-- they cared more about the color of people's skins (and their meaningless bloodline) rather than the content of their character.

I guess I think nationalism is a pretty weak/beta concept to tie yourself to. Therefore--

Laner Wrote:

Japan is an interesting one though. Xenophobia is often thrown around, but the fact is that Japanese people like and appreciate foreign people there- though some barely tolerate us- but only when they are able to fully appropriate the best from our cultures and steadfastly push out the worst.

-- this is a much more appropriate idea of equality and tolerance, in my opinion, than affirmative action and progressivism's paternalistic prescriptions.

[Laner]

I agree that xenophobia tends to be something at the extreme- hence a phobia.

Most people would love nothing more then to be proved wrong when it comes to stereotyping. Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems that cultures love it when someone bucks the norm of their perceived culture. I see it everyday, when someone does not fit into the ideal, people seem overjoyed and often point it out.

Again with the Japanese, I think part of the disappointment is that they thought, if Brazilians, who are half Japanese, cant even properly fit into Japanese society, how would someone like the Koreans, or Chinese, who have assimilated, be expected to fit in. The Japanese are obviously obsessed with blood, which made the whole fuck up seem that much more confusing to them.

As far as the content to the Brazilian Hapa's, the unfortunate thing is that they fit exactly into the stereotype of how much of the world views Brazilians. The Japanese just could not overlook the fact they were part Japanese, therefore......

[Speculation]

I was reading that certain cognitive biases happen before conscious thought. What is interesting is that even people indoctrinated to 'not be racist or sexist' will still be affected by those biases, and it was only after their initial thinking was superceded by deliberate thought that they countered their biases. Ironically SJW's and feminists were found to be just as racist and sexist themselves against women and minorities in unconcious thinking.

Daniel Kahneman was the guy that did the most work on this

His work is applied to create better first impressions and communication (or manipulation) in the book 'No One Understands You and What to Do About It' by Heidi Halvorson.

As an aside, this theory of heuristics and biases was applied in the old proto-game PUA theory of 'Avatars', where guys would dress up as a Cowboy, RockStar etc for a night out at bars to exploit the preconceptions that women would attribute to those archetypes.

[Laner]

^^^ Thanks for linking this back to game, and how we can use this to better ourselves. The idea of manipulating others ingrained thoughts is as old as society. Politicians, business men, players are all masters of this to some degree.

One of the easiest ways to get people to lose their shit nowadays is to make un-PC comments and see who bites. Its not exactly classy but using this tactic against people is quite straightforward. I mean it actually works so well that Pakistani men were able to abuse over a thousand young girls. If a culture finds it more important to NOT look racist (which is far too overused and barely understood) then it is to do their job how can we ever be expected to move on.

Look at Germany right now and how they are so afraid of someone whispering "Nazi" that they allow their fear of being labeled racist allow them to do actual and long term damage to their own people.

You mention SJW and Feminists. They are actually masters of using this tactic, however they are also so blinded by their self righteousness that they cant see the logical next step. We know all too well that they end up eating their own tails in the end. They are so indoctrinated that they would never be able to 'double down' which is the major weakness in Left wing thinking these days. No left wing government would ever have the balls to wipe out 100 million people like the Russians and Chinese did.