[General Stalin]

http://www.rooshv.com/the-elephant-in-the-room

I wrote in the comments section:

General Stalin Wrote:

Thanks for writing. You published this article at a very apt point in my life. I've noticed myself becoming more and more of a selfish and impatient asshole with women and it has certainly ruined many interactions and potential relationships I could have had.

Game teaches us to be hard, expectation independent, stoic, selfish, uncompromising, and even manipulative. Grinding these tenets into your head for years will eventually turn you into someone who has a hard time connecting with women on a deeper level and actually pair-bonding and having the patience and sensitivity to forge a worthwhile relationship.

It's not about being some hard-nose take no shit alpha 24/7. No one can be like that. You'd have to be a robot and/or be alone forever. Its about finding a happy medium between being a selfish asshole badboy and being an accomodating sensitive beta

Roosh's article brings up an important point this is less often talked about on the forum and the 'sphere in general: love & the game.

The majority of this community is made of people have been bitter and jaded from shortcomings with women and relationships in their earlier years and being jilted and hurt one too many times. A small minority are people who simply enjoy women at a hedonistic surface level and have never concerned themselves with much more, and an even smaller minority are natural players who are merely "enjoying the decline" as we say.

Whatever your stake is in the game. Whatever your reason for playing, your origin story, and where you are currently at, there is no denying that there is little room for "love" if you truly live by the tenets of game as we know them.

I for one fall into the former category. I come from a history of complete betatude where I have been cheated on and/or jilted a number of times in LTRs in my young adult years. That history combined with discovering the manosphere and game has lead me to equate sensitivity, attachment, caring, selflessness, and all general aspects of nice-guy-ness with being taken advantage of, hurt, rejection, cheating, lies, disloyalty, etc. For the first year or so of game I faked it until I made with being more emotionally unavailable, a little douchey, and selfish. Nowadays I've noticed that has really started to manifest itself to where my default demeanor is to be kind of an icy prick with women.

This is a catch 22 that we have all touched upon here and there on the forum but never dove too far into. These things have helped me guard my heart from women hurting me, but has also cost me potential relationships and interactions which could have been wonderful and enjoyable. Do we all want to just rail and bail on endless random broads until the day we die? Is merely pushing for sex asap and having an uncompromising demeanor towards women a good long term plan? Is catching feelings for a girl to be avoided at all costs?

[Dalaran1991]

How old are you bro?

I feel like this sometimes but I've learned to ignore it. If you are younger than 30s this should not be of concerned to you.

I'm 24 turning 25 and I still think I'm too young to understand what it means to truly loves someone other than myself. That and we men don't need to worry about settling down or else we will die alone like women.

I asked the same question here: thread-35587.html

Regarding the other part:

Quote:

Do we all want to just rail and bail on endless random broads until the day we die? Is merely pushing for sex asap and having an uncompromising demeanor towards women a good long term plan?

This is your fear of missing out. You changed for the better then you wondered "what if". I think you have your answers right here:

Quote:

These things have helped me guard my heart from women hurting me, but has also cost me potential relationships and interactions which could have been wonderful and enjoyable.

You knew the answer, you lived it before. The reality is that it's much better to lose out on a few women who are all replaceable in the end, than to get constantly wrecked emotionally, financially and physically.

Think back about the women who pushes you to redpill. Then realize that most women ARE like that. When I turned redpill I thought those few were just horrible people, but I slowly realize that it's not just them, it's just women being women.

That said, nobody said you can't get a LTR. This is the most liberating part of the redpill. If you find a girl you like, LTR her up and if she fucks up walk and rinse and repeat. I do believe as your game and life gets better the quality of women do get better, it's simply a matter of time and investment in yourself. Roosh could have settled down with many girls, he just chose to keep walking.

There's nothing wrong with being ruthless and selfish with women who haven't proved themselves to you. Your time is valuable and she has to earns it.

I'm 6 months in a LTR and I enjoy it, she turns head and is very pleasant with me. A few months ago my redpill mentor, a top player, also LTR up for the first time in his life too, with a pretty, smart but very feminine girl. I had to see it for myself else I would think he was BSing me.

TLDR: The redpill is not making you bad. Connection with girls will get better with game and time. Stop worrying about missing out on something that will come to you naturally. Envetually you too will settle down.

[WestIndianArchie]

Might be an unpopular opinion, but

Having been in love
Having your heart broken
Living with a chick

Are all helpful life experiences that *can* make a guy a better player.

Growing up with sisters and having kids are also very informative to the nature of people

[OregonToSoCal]

Great article from Roosh and it's a question that I won't claim to have an answer to. One of the senior forum members, for the life of me I can't remember who said it, said a quote that really hit home to me and I feel is relevant here. It was something along the lines of "you should physically lead a woman but emotionally follow her."

My interpretation of that idea is that it's up to us as men to take the lead in approaching, physically escalating, planning dates etc. However the woman should take the lead in setting the pace of how deep and emotionally intimate the relationship goes. If the woman is always in the lead, i.e. the one always texting/calling first, first to declare her love, first to want to be exclusive, first to want to move in together, she will always in effect be the one who "cares the most" and in the weaker position of the relationship.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with desiring to fall in love with a woman or to want something deeper than casual notches but it always has to be framed in a position of the woman being the one chasing and showing slightly more vulnerability than the man.

[LouEvilSlugger]

Being around the right woman (a real, feminine woman) reminds you how great life is, and how stupid the rest of life is without one (or with the wrong one). Whether you’re 15 or 80, your heart starts to pound, your body flushes with heat, your testosterone starts going into overdrive, and the world seems great and life is grand, and you're in awe of it.

[General Stalin]

(11-24-2015 12:17 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

...
snip
...
TLDR: The redpill is not making you bad. Connection with girls will get better with game and time. Stop worrying about missing out on something that will come to you naturally. Envetually you too will settle down.

It's not that I'm saying redpill is making anyone "bad" so to speak. Moreso that I think its common and easy to take it too far to the point where you condition yourself to be unable to connect with women on a deeper level beyond trying to get into their pants and do what you want.

And you're right, there probably is a certain level of FOMO that I feel that prompts this, but as I've said before on here: it's always good to take a step back and re-evaluate yourself and if what you are getting out of the game is really making you happy and giving you the results and lifestyle that you want.

I am older than you, but not old enough where I'm worried of dying alone. My concern moreso comes from my own observations of how I deal with women currently.

[Guitarman]

Feelings are for women. Men are rational logical beings. Therefore we do not need "love".

Love is for weak beta males. I know, I used to develop feelings of love for women when I was one (weak beta male, not a woman!). Sometimes even when I was not in a relationship with a woman. To be a true alpha man you have to have complete control of your feelings and act rationally at all times and being able to project "pretend" feelings at appropriate times.

You can have a successful LTR with a woman even without falling in love. In fact it's far better that she loves you and not the reverse. It's all about the balance of power in a relationship and keeping your frame. The best way to do this is not to turn into a love struck teenager.

Really, I wonder whether Roosh writes these articles as a public relations exercise so that he has written material he can point to to defer charges of "mysogyny" or "Sexism" or some such feminist nonsense.

[worldwidetraveler]

^ That is what I call paper alpha.

Some people cannot control their frame if they develop feelings for a woman. That comes from inner problems that needs to be worked out.

There is nothing wrong with caring or loving a woman. Trying to call feelings beta is, well, beta.

[Huey]

(11-24-2015 01:51 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  

Feelings are for women. Men are rational logical beings. Therefore we do not need "love".

Love is for weak beta males. I know, I used to develop feelings of love for women when I was one (weak beta male, not a woman!). Sometimes even when I was not in a relationship with a woman. To be a true alpha man you have to have complete control of your feelings and act rationally at all times and being able to project "pretend" feelings at appropriate times.

You can have a successful LTR with a woman even without falling in love. In fact it's far better that she loves you and not the reverse. It's all about the balance of power in a relationship and keeping your frame. The best way to do this is not to turn into a love struck teenager.

Really, I wonder whether Roosh writes these articles as a public relations exercise so that he has written material he can point to to defer charges of "mysogyny" or "Sexism" or some such feminist nonsense.

[General Stalin]

(11-24-2015 01:51 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  

Feelings are for women. Men are rational logical beings. Therefore we do not need "love".

Love is for weak beta males. I know, I used to develop feelings of love for women when I was one (weak beta male, not a woman!). Sometimes even when I was not in a relationship with a woman. To be a true alpha man you have to have complete control of your feelings and act rationally at all times and being able to project "pretend" feelings at appropriate times.

You can have a successful LTR with a woman even without falling in love. In fact it's far better that she loves you and not the reverse. It's all about the balance of power in a relationship and keeping your frame. The best way to do this is not to turn into a love struck teenager.

Really, I wonder whether Roosh writes these articles as a public relations exercise so that he has written material he can point to to defer charges of "mysogyny" or "Sexism" or some such feminist nonsense.

This is a perfect example what I'm talking about. We got dudes being programmed to think that catching feelings for a woman is the death knell and to avoid at all costs. Keyboard alpha or not, no stable and mentally healthy human is like that.

We're men, not robots.

[RatInTheWoods]

This has been troubling me for a while, when I read certain posts from damaged people on here as well.

I feel sorry for those that have lost their way, and never experienced the unmatchable joy that an authentic, loving balanced LTR can give you.

I seek, hone and use game to acquire and maintain the very good things that women can bring to my life, and avoid the very bad things they can inflict.

I am horrified at fellow gamers who use, abuse and hate women, and live a life devoid of integrity and values.

I guess this is a collection of varied individuals, all here to take what we can use to live how we want to.

[262]

It's all about balance.

Taking logic to it's extreme, Game makes no sense. Why put in so much time and resources to find a bang or an LTR, when making money and buying a bang or an LTR is easier?

At the same time, we're all aware of taking feelings to their blue-pill extreme. For instance, on careers: "Follow your heart and the money will follow," except it almost certainly doesn't.

[Mercenary]

If you love a woman in a similar way to how you love your own son or daughter, then it will work.

With your own children you will always forgive their mistakes, selfishness and naivety because they are just kids....but because they are your kids, you continue to love them regardless. To be a good parent means to promote and reward good behaviour, and point out and punish bad behaviour. Teaching, patience and discipline must all be there in equal measures. Same with your woman.

If you love a woman any other way than how you would love your own child, you will always wind up disappointed eventually.

ALWAYS

[Noir]

There is a difference between loving a woman and being in love and both.

[iknowexactly]

1) Shakespeare's "Much Ado About Nothing":

BENEDICK
First, of my word! Therefore play, music.—Prince, thou art
sad. Get thee a wife, get thee a wife.

2) Shakespeare gets cosmic on marriage:

“What is wedlock forced, but a hell, An age of discord and continual strife? Whereas the contrary bringeth forth bliss, And is a pattern of celestial peace.”


3) Shakespeare again on metaphysics of having childen:
“Thou art thy mother's glass, and she in thee Calls back the lovely April of her prime; So thou through windows of thine age shalt see, Despite of wrinkles, this thy golden time.”


4) From Mozart's letters to his beloved sister:

"...a bachelor is only half alive."

5) Hemingway
"Don't get in the ring with Shakespeare."

[BassPlayaYo]

IMO, when you're really in touch with your male-power/alpha-ness, it's easier to love because you're operating from a much more secure place. You trust in who you are and what you are and you make less and less decisions based on fear, you don't have a problem doing things that are in your own best interest, you don't apologize for looking out for you.

[rw95]

This latest article by Roosh brings up what I have been struggling to reconcile as both a man and an artist: the place of love and emotion in the life of a red-pill aware man. As an artist, emotions are extremely important to one's art, and the art cannot exist without the emotion. However, since discovering Roosh and other red-pill sites, as a man I have been trying to kill as much of my emotion as possible. It is something which has heavily affected my view on life, and has caused me to virtually give up singing, which was something that used to bring joy to my life. To see these articles by Roosh, in which it seems he is turning back on some of the things he's been saying for years now, is to a relative neophyte to the Red Pill both interesting and confusing.

[Thrill Jackson]

As the old saying goes, fake it till you make it. I would rather be independent, making money, fucking bitches etc than be love struck and risk getting fucked over. Not only is getting sex a game, but life is as well.You got to know how to play your cards, and if I end up being a healthy 50 year James Bond type day gaming girls at a University, so be it, those cards are fine with me. When I stop developing swimmers, I will still be enjoying life by reading, lifting weights, contributing to charity, etc. At least this is how I feel at this point (21 years of age).

[cosworth]

If you find a girl that truly enhances your life and you fall in love then there's nothing wrong with that.
I've had girls fall in love with me , and then as soon as I start to let my guard down , turning from alpha to beta tendencies it all goes pear shaped.
There's a lid for every pot !

[StrikeBack]

Roosh seems to be posting on topics that are perfectly timed for me lately.

I have been dating a woman that I love as a neomasculine man can and should love. I'd like to elaborate on this later today when I have time, but for now...

(11-24-2015 06:36 PM)Phil Jackson Wrote:  

As the old saying goes, fake it till you make it. I would rather be independent, making money, fucking bitches etc than be love struck and risk getting fucked over. Not only is getting sex a game, but life is as well.You got to know how to play your cards, and if I end up being a healthy 50 year James Bond type day gaming girls at a University, so be it, those cards are fine with me. When I stop developing swimmers, I will still be enjoying life by reading, lifting weights, contributing to charity, etc. At least this is how I feel at this point (21 years of age).

All young guys (let's say 28 and younger) should not even think about love, and should refrain from participating in this discussion.

I mean no disrespect, I have been where you are, and you simply do not have the life experience yet to talk about it. Currently you are doing exactly the right things for you, which I would've done at the same age, but understand that you are talking up a big game that you do not comprehend. In fact, had you actually read Roosh's blog, you would've realised that your point of view is already covered.

You're simply not ready yet to think about this topic, let alone discuss it.

[cascadecombo]

Quote:

Might be an unpopular opinion, but

Having been in love
Having your heart broken
Living with a chick 

Are all helpful life experiences that *can* make a guy a better player. 

Growing up with sisters and having kids are also very informative to the nature of people

Or at least the idea that they thought they were in love.
Unpopular or not those experiences got me to learn about game. I would wager a significant proportion would be of guys who got played and decided to learn game.

[xpatplayer]

The great paradox of game - you get into game because you can't get the women you care about. And when you finally make sweet love to the women you care about, you can't show them the torrent of emotion you feel. Because you should be 'too good', not 'good enough' for these chicks, or they'll knock your ass to the curb.

Or maybe it's just that American women think about their sex-partners' feelings too much. I've noticed that Latinas and FOB Asians care more about making their man happy than they do about conducting a complex, quantitative analysis of whether he was the best they could do.

[Apollo21]

Wow. It's amazing how far people will
go to seek pleasure and avoid pain.

The thing about love is that it is both
pleasure and pain...joy and sweet sweet sorrow...

It is a kite dancing in a hurricane.

I can not count the number of times I've been
disappointed, thrilled, frustrated, soaring high,
crashed and burned, amused and estatic all in
the pursuit of women and relationships.

Treating women as disposable and being emotionally
unavailable is not a healthy way to play the game.
You can do it sure. But you will suffer.

Especially when you meet someone you really like
and you have no idea how to actually make her happy
because for years you simply didn't care about women.

A better way to play the game(and win) is to accept
the fact that you're going to meet a lot of women
who are not going to work out...for whatever reason...

Instead of (over) reacting and vowing to never be
hurt again by a woman...I say be a little more resilient
and like a forest let it burn if it must so you can get over
it and start anew.

That is to say, make plenty of room for heartbreak, disappointment
rejection, frustration etc so you know how to safely vent these emotions
instead of overreacting and building an emotional wall around yourself
that suffocates your entire spirit.

Love is pleasure and pain. Accept them both and you'll be invincible.

[Agreddor]

(11-24-2015 10:42 PM)xpatplayer Wrote:  

The great paradox of game - you get into game because you can't get the women you care about. And when you finally make sweet love to the women you care about, you can't show them the torrent of emotion you feel. Because you should be 'too good', not 'good enough' for these chicks, or they'll knock your ass to the curb.

Or maybe it's just that American women think about their sex-partners' feelings too much. I've noticed that Latinas and FOB Asians care more about making their man happy than they do about conducting a complex, quantitative analysis of whether he was the best they could do.

Seconded

[Rush87]

(11-24-2015 11:37 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Do we all want to just rail and bail on endless random broads until the day we die? Is merely pushing for sex asap and having an uncompromising demeanor towards women a good long term plan? Is catching feelings for a girl to be avoided at all costs?

As I've slowly detached from my blue pill mind set [Not just with women but with the world in general] my mind has gradually started to crave those 'ideals' I dreamt about as a beta teenager.

The best line my father ever taught me was "To control what you control, forget about about the rest".

When I think about it philosophically: You only have one life. I recognise all the pitfalls of being in a relationship and the decline of women, but a big part of me says 'who cares'…

…When it comes to love I have no answers but when I look throughout history at the most virtuous men, those who are stoic, they accept their situation, arm themselves for battle, and do their best to achieve victory.

As I get older, this mentality is slowly seeping into my mindset [With regards to women].