[The Father]

(11-23-2015 12:35 AM)nek Wrote:  

I think guys take the idea of a "successful marriage" as some personal challenge. Marriage was a societal invention. It's society that upholds it as an institution, it's society that can destroy it. It has nothing to do with you personally and your "game" abilities.

That's somewhat profound. Thank you for posting it.

[The Father]

(11-22-2015 06:13 PM)Geomann180 Wrote:  

I'm not saying you want to get married again. I just think that maybe on some level you might enjoy a good relationship with one woman more than a few shallow relationships with multiple.

But it's hard to let oneself get so close again, if they're all like that.

G

That's exactly right. I want closeness, but I am afraid of being burned. I'm also afraid of getting bored. I know, don't say it.

[WestIndianArchie]

You're not wrong.

It will be interesting to see how the red pill apologists wriggle out of this basic truth.

The biggest problem is that men cannot live with uncertainty.

WIA

[dispenser]

I think I'll be borrowing some of those lines, OP.

---

Historically, men dealt with this artificially.
The way they did isn't always adaptable, but it is instructive.
You can't always be at the top of your game, but you can arrange things so that the odds are in your favour.

In Ancient Greece:
-Women were housebound unless escorted by a male relative. Legally, they were minors at any age: the husband replaced the father as legal guardian.
-Houses were detached and often in large enclosures. No white picket fence.
-Women did not have careers, and got their company from extended family living in the same house.
-They were kept busy with pregnancies, and knitting, even when they had servants that could do it.
-Women lived alongside women in the gynaeceum, or women's quarters, and had a separate living room. This also served as a nursery.
-Women were only ever served by female servants. No poolboy.
-This gynaeceum was usually at the back of the house, upstairs, or both.
-Strange men met the men of the house in the Andron, or men's quarters, a kind of mix of study and dining room.
-The Andron was at the front of the house, always on the ground floor.
-Drinking parties were all-male affairs in the Andron, with the occasional exception of dancing girls.
-Women were strongly discouraged from alcohol.
-The man of the house could go anywhere, but women could not enter the Andron, and male servants and strangers could not enter the Gynaeceum. There were neutral areas, though, such as the courtyard.

Needless to say, the odds of infidelity were cut down to the bone.

On the extended family point: a nuclear family (man, wife, child) effectively means that the woman is living with a hermit. It's a new and bad state of affairs.
To be a devoted mother and wife now means to be socially isolated and bored.

Female careerism is a response to this. They don't want corporate fulfillment: they want to abandon a hermit and join a tribe.
Apart from being distressed by isolation, subconsciously, women seek dramatic social situations to provide rival men a chance to prove themselves better than their current mate.
Provide a tribe you control, deny your rivals a chance.

[XXL]

(11-23-2015 01:47 AM)The Father Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 12:59 AM)jariel Wrote:  

(11-22-2015 05:41 PM)The Father Wrote:  

(11-22-2015 05:11 PM)XXL Wrote:  

Go read "My secret garden" by Nancy Friday. And don't eat anything before reading it if you're really that surprised that she NEEEEEEDED YOUR COCK

Tell me more about this book.

I've mentioned that book on this forum for years.

Friday gets women to write her letters about their sexual fantasies, such as fucking Black men, beastiality, incest, etc.

I'm ordering it. Just like 50 Shades of Grey helped my sext game, I think it could help my game a bit. Actually I think Sun-Tzu said to read chick lit before trying to conquer their vajay-jays, or something like that...

After that book go read "The manipulated man" by Esther Vilar. It's a woman who wrote a book how lame women are, basically. Personally, I think she took it a bit too far to make her point but there's still A LOT of truth in her book. Good luck with girls after that book

[Basil II]

(11-23-2015 02:50 AM)dispenser Wrote:  

On the extended family point: a nuclear family (man, wife, child) effectively means that the woman is living with a hermit. It's a new and bad state of affairs.
To be a devoted mother and wife now means to be socially isolated and bored.

Female careerism is a response to this. They don't want corporate fulfillment: they want to abandon a hermit and join a tribe.
Apart from being distressed by isolation, subconsciously, women seek dramatic social situations to provide rival men a chance to prove themselves better than their current mate.
Provide a tribe you control, deny your rivals a chance.

Thanks for this insight, woman do fear the isolation of a nuclear family. How to address this and create a tribe one can control? I suppose respect for men's authority to dictate tribe/family roles would have to return.

[MMX2010]

(11-22-2015 05:35 PM)The Father Wrote:  

I have thought that...but it's not easy. I think the nature of women is SCANDALOUS, and that's why society has reigned in, even regulated, women's sexuality for thousands of years.

I only somewhat agree with this. I think society has reigned in the nature of women for thousands of years because effective birth control didn't exist. But now that effective birth control exists, both men and women are free.

Some men react to this freedom by trying to lead humanity back in time before effective birth control existed. Other men react to this freedom by dropping out of the race because they don't know how to run it effectively. But we are the men who simultaneously know how to run the race effectively and determine the costs of this newly found freedom.

One of those costs is letting go the notion that women are automatically loyal. They're not. At best, they're trained to be loyal under certain conditions - (which, to men, sounds like a contradiction in terms). At worse, they're unable to be loyal regardless of how any man trains them.

At a philosophy meeting, the founder and I were discussing Game. And someone asked us, "Do you need women to be logical and consistent?" The founder and I looked at each other, shook our heads, turned back to him, and said, "No. Not at all."

Similarly, I'd ask you, "Do you need women to be loyal, no matter what?" My answer is, "No. Not really. At best, I just want them to be conditionally loyal, meaning they're loyal as long as I live up to my end of the bargain. But I don't want them to be unconditionally loyal."

What's your answer?

[jariel]

These days there's a lot of finger-pointing going on at women, as if there aren't a lot of sorry ass dudes doing their absolute best to fuck up the game completely.

This shit isn't one-sided.

[TheDuncan]

All this thinking makes my head hurt, I dont think I'll ever get married, I dont trust women enough and they annoy me after a while, I just want to bang chicks and eventually pick one to have my kids, Im 26 so maybe in my late 30's I'll change my attitude but from everything I have experienced to this point, I dont see anything changing too much, maybe lighten up but I dunno.

I basiclly want to live like that Dan Blizteran guy, do fun shit, fuck bitches and do what I want, obviously thats easy to do when you are rich like him.

Fuck Bitches, Get Money, One day...

[jariel]

(11-23-2015 01:50 PM)TheDuncan Wrote:  

All this thinking makes my head hurt, I dont think I'll ever get married, I dont trust women enough and they annoy me after a while, I just want to bang chicks and eventually pick one to have my kids, Im 26 so maybe in my late 30's I'll change my attitude but from everything I have experienced to this point, I dont see anything changing too much, maybe lighten up but I dunno.

I basiclly want to live like that Dan Blizteran guy, do fun shit, fuck bitches and do what I want, obviously thats easy to do when you are rich like him.

No offense meant, but your message suggests that you're completely lost.

[TheDuncan]

Perhpas so, I am completely open to advice and learning, I dont pretend to know it all and know that I have a lot to learn in life still.

Like I said I am not too worried about women at the moment, I certainly dont trust them enough to start relationships and marriage is not in my radar at all, I just focus on myself right now, trying to better myself in everyway possible.

[dispenser]

(11-23-2015 06:34 AM)Gregmo Wrote:  

Thanks for this insight, woman do fear the isolation of a nuclear family. How to address this and create a tribe one can control? I suppose respect for men's authority to dictate tribe/family roles would have to return.

The simplest way would be to flip the script. Bring a business home.
Start a company that employs people and that operates out of the same building you live in.
Ideally, you'd provide room and board for these employees as part of the wage. This would make them more beholden to their employer and less likely to cause trouble.
You'd also want to provide a place for your parents to live, to set the precedent for your own old age.
An organic farm would be the closest to the Ancient Greek way of doing things.

People still respect authority. But it has to be the real authority to give or take.

On the chick-lit note, Twilight is very tribal.
Edward is part of an aloof adoptive family that doesn't socialise with others and is obviously well off.
For the girl, half the attraction is 'getting in' with those people.
Meanwhile, his rival is part of a shirtless werewolf pack. Everyone is just so fascinated by Ms. Generic.

[A guy from Ocllo]

It seems the only way to ensure a woman's loyalty and fidelity is to do what middle-eastern guys do.
Treat them like animals, force them to stay at home, keep them pregnant all the time, stone them to death if you find out they're cheating.

I don't think any white male in their right mind would want this.
I personally don't.

I do think though that marriage is an outdated social construct that needs to go, and that "fidelity" is overrated.

The simple truth is, there is no way to force another living human being to do your bidding, unless you treaten them with death. The concept of "having such strong game that she will never think of cheating on me" seems childish at best. But even arabic wives find ways to cheat.
So, either the concept of "fidelity" or "womens rights" has to go.
I think the if we remove the latter we're back to the stone age, right where most of the arab world is now.

[I do it]

Are women so much different from men? Men go to prostitutes despite being married, or cheat with their co-workers. Many men find forbidden stuff tempting as in crime (and there´s countless movies making it heroic like gangster movies and wolf of wallstreet), suprisingly there isn´t really many movies on "Scandalous Women".

But countless women work in red light and it´s probably by choice in the majority of cases.

Do all wives cheat? I don´t think so. Could you get every bro to commit a crime with you for huge financial gain? Probably not everyone. But many. Depending on your skill and how much you can win them over, convince them etc....

I´ve researched a couple of high net worth individuals who built HUGE organizations with 100s, 1000s and 10000s of followers who helped them grow huge. They were able to convince millions of people to buy their financial products.

Because let´s face this fact. Most humans ARE followers. Not many are leaders.

So yeah. Everyone can be convinced. Or almost everyone. That´s just human nature.

Everyone loves getting attention and feeling important.

The concept of marriage seems pretty much outdated, but of course there is many men and women who would never cheat. It just seems to be difficult to figure out who is who. I actually see a potentially very huge business market here, for hundreds of millions of dollar.

I mean companies do drug tests on their employees and so do insurances, theres alcohol tests in traffic to prevent drunk driving. Why not have some test to measure the hormones or whatever to see when your woman had last sex?

The only other option I see if you really want to be so close with a girl and build your life with her, is to really spend every moment of your lives together. Not so she doesn´t ever cheat. But because you have a dream together, be it a business or something else. And because you have so much passion for each other. This was always the best times I had with my women.. In the first weeks of being crazily in love. Maybe I´m too much of a romantic (don´t mistake with stupid) but I do believe this can last for a whole life if you´re good enough. And if she is not there´s always a younger, more tender one.

That´s actually what I want. I don´t need sex with dozens of low quality bitches from Tinder, housewifes or partygirls, I rather have someone by my side every moment and build something fucking amazing with a huge house by the beach, giant income and work about 2 hours a day. We´ll need to find so many hobbys and activities to do together, or write some books in the spare time.

Well another quick true story. There was this guy who got into the circles of high society in Monaco and other european places. He started affairs with tons of very rich women. One of them was the owner of BMW, Susanne Klatten. It actually got on court because he blackmailed them after sex with videotapes. He was sentenced to I think 6 years. Another of these women was the wife of "Consul Weyer" who is quite popular in germany for selling DR-titles and diplomat passes and selling adoptions to get titles to your name, and selling liberian flags (with papers) for ships so they can save on costs. They were married for a long time, and she cheated on him too with that guy.

So yeah this poor guy got some of the richest european women to cheat on their husbands. Women who actually had money themselves.

But the only universal truth I see here is.... GET GOOD!

[Noir]

Typical game theory and what we preach:

All women stray.

They want attention, validation and approval.

When you are not giving it to them, they will look elsewhere for it. If that guy has game, it will escalate into 'straying'. Even not, her mind is elsewhere.

Women are always looking on how to improve their position and their emotional and physical well-being.


My experience:

They are never done with their fantasies. You find this when you bang a girl who is not your usual type and it is much more intense than you think and it really gets you thinking.

When you are in their fantasy and you're thinking "Shit, this is real. She is married/other race/older/younger/different but it blew my mind."

They will always put in effort into these fantasies because they are so invested into it and you facilitate it.

When I am inside of them and they're nearing orgasm, I start planting fucked up fantasies in their minds and see what they get off on and what they don't.

Usually, anything fucking flies, be it getting fucked in front of a crowd/public, humiliation, double penetration, whatever.

Shit makes the old me cringe.

Women want to be wanted by all, not just one. They want what is wanted by others, they don't just want one. It's an egotistical thing.

I will be out and some guy is hitting on my girlfriend. She is playing with her hair and shit and giggling. I don't hold it against her, I can't control her urges.

It never gets out of hand but you can tell she is attracted and that attraction comes down to some pre-conceived notion/fantasy she has (I have a specific example from last night in mind, another Mediterranean guy). Whatever- if he takes care of that little itch she has, there and then and I am around then fuck it. It can always be leveraged.

You keep your frame and do you. She could be doing it in retaliation for you flirting with other women, her insecurities etc. You accept it and sometimes put her in her place but ultimately let it be. If she strays- so what. That's the price you pay to find out she is a slut, it is unhealthy to be paranoid about cheating.

I really cannot approach the marriage conundrum you pose and it is probably best some of the more experienced members chime in.

I say this as a person who is anti-marriage but unsure about children and what would be the ideal climate for them to grow up. My parents should have been divorced, they kind of hate each other but stayed together for me. It's a strange feeling when you can identify that and know what happens behind the scenes but it is normal I suppose.

Once again, I'll repeat the Greek adage- "Every woman is a slut except your mother and your sister".

It's not that I don't trust women but rather, I trust women to be women.

As I write this, it becomes clearer that having abundance and fucking different women all the time is a coping mechanism for those who cannot fully accept women's nature. Sure, you have high testosterone, your self-esteem is fueled by feeling attractive and getting laid and generally you dig it but I can't help but think that our version of polygamy is a coping mechanism pinging off the intrinsic nature of women, their fantasies (which we can't fully cater to in a monogamous relationship).

Went off on a bit of a tangent there ha.

edit: we also need to give relevance to cultural norms and stuff. With Western women, it is expected much more than Eastern Europe or Mediterranean countries. Can't speak for Asia that much as my experience has been as a white guy where they flock to you no matter what.

[A guy from Ocllo]

Quote:

The concept of marriage seems pretty much outdated, but of course there is many men and women who would never cheat. It just seems to be difficult to figure out who is who.

Oh, it's not that hard to figure out. Low SMV people and people with low sex drive (most times due to health issues) usually don't cheat. Since they either don't or can't get any sex whatsoever.

Everyone else "cheats". Why eat the same meal every day, when you can try different meals? It's counter-intuitive. The only reason we use the word "cheating" is because society tells us to. Some would say there are some "biological mechanisms", evolutionary traits that make men "not want to get cucked" but one is yet to be discovered by science. It seems nowadays anything goes as long as you say "evolution made me this way". And you don't even have to be a biologist or any kind of scientist (don't even have to read a single paper on science in your life) in order to explain your huge ego with some evolutionary pseudo-science stuff that makes you "not want to raise someone elses children" or whatever.

But in fact people don't have much evolutionary traits associated with making kids and children at all. It's all social programming, whether you like it or not.
It may be hard for some, especially the older guys to accept this, but if one gets buttmad over a woman cheating on him, it's not because nature and evolution. Nothing in our DNA or brains actually tells us to want children. Or to want a woman to raise OUR children. Or to crave leaving a legacy behind after you pass away. If society never taught us these things, 99% of us would not care.
Hell, the only difference between a mother throwing her newborn into a trashcan or keeping them is often the prolactine level in her body.

Often a low SMV male (3-5/10 guy) will, while drunk, cum into his girlfrend hoping she gets pregnant and never leaves him. Then he goes to some forum and writes about how nature called to him and his sperm demanded to be released in order to fulfill his destiny as a human male. I've heard stories like these both from guys and girls.

Low SMV women (1-4/10) will often badly want to get pregnant, to the point where they would let any guy cum inside them, even if they don't actually have the resources to raise a child. It's not because nature tells them so. It's because the low SMV woman sees this as a chance to look more important in the eyes of others. To be *somebody* since most of her life she's been invisible to males due to her crappy looks.

[Alexandrian]

(12-11-2015 08:54 PM)A guy from Ocllo Wrote:  

It seems the only way to ensure a woman's loyalty and fidelity is to do what middle-eastern guys do.
Treat them like animals, force them to stay at home, keep them pregnant all the time, stone them to death if you find out they're cheating.

I don't think any white male in their right mind would want this.
I personally don't.

I do think though that marriage is an outdated social construct that needs to go, and that "fidelity" is overrated.

The simple truth is, there is no way to force another living human being to do your bidding, unless you treaten them with death. The concept of "having such strong game that she will never think of cheating on me" seems childish at best. But even arabic wives find ways to cheat.
So, either the concept of "fidelity" or "womens rights" has to go.
I think the if we remove the latter we're back to the stone age, right where most of the arab world is now.

Team Stone Age all day

[Dr. Howard]

(11-23-2015 02:50 AM)dispenser Wrote:  

I think I'll be borrowing some of those lines, OP.

---

.....

Needless to say, the odds of infidelity were cut down to the bone.

On the extended family point: a nuclear family (man, wife, child) effectively means that the woman is living with a hermit. It's a new and bad state of affairs.
To be a devoted mother and wife now means to be socially isolated and bored.

Female careerism is a response to this. They don't want corporate fulfillment: they want to abandon a hermit and join a tribe.
Apart from being distressed by isolation, subconsciously, women seek dramatic social situations to provide rival men a chance to prove themselves better than their current mate.
Provide a tribe you control, deny your rivals a chance.

Excellent post. Marriage is both environment and quality bitches. Let me provide contrast from my own life.

Situation 1 - When my wife and I were dating/ltr - she worked and I worked, we lived in an area with an active nightlife/college town. There were rivals, dudes and drama all of the damn time. There were also meddling bitches and scorned b-list bangs stirring shit up on my end. Essentially our lives were barely integrated except for banging, we were part of the party tribe and not hermits

Situation 2 - married, moved to a far flung yet beautiful place. I run a business on the internet and she helps but is more the house/food/kids manager. All of our eggs are in the same basket and there is not alot of interaction outside of our family. It is a very hermit style life. Church provides social interaction and it does a great job at gender separation, because its conservative. The end result? Our lives now are infinitely easier and low drama than in situation 1.

This hermit style separation also holds true for 'back in the day' style marriages where a family lived on a farm. They spent 99% of their time isolated there and then socialized at church, which was an institution with gender separation and an eye on minimizing temptation.

[Floridian1]

Meet her emotional needs and you reduce the chances that she will stray.....but you never will be 100% guaranteed.

[The Father]

(11-22-2015 06:14 PM)XXL Wrote:  

Basically this book describes dirty sexual fantasies that women have. Fantasies that seemingly you're not aware of. Whole new world of sex will open up to you after you read it

Just bought it...haven't read it yet...am prepared to be shocked...

[Caractacus Potts]

(12-12-2015 04:28 PM)The Father Wrote:  

(11-22-2015 06:14 PM)XXL Wrote:  

Basically this book describes dirty sexual fantasies that women have. Fantasies that seemingly you're not aware of. Whole new world of sex will open up to you after you read it

Just bought it...haven't read it yet...am prepared to be shocked...

Also check out "Dangerous Men, Adventurous Women." If I recall correctly, each chapter is an interview with a different romance novelist. Many of them have a formula that they follow so the stories are all basically the same.

Given what I have experienced both personally and from others via RVF I feel like I could probably write a very convincing and successful romance novel. In fact I think many posters here could as well.

CP

[CleanSlate]

(12-12-2015 07:39 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

Situation 2 - married, moved to a far flung yet beautiful place. I run a business on the internet and she helps but is more the house/food/kids manager. All of our eggs are in the same basket and there is not alot of interaction outside of our family. It is a very hermit style life. Church provides social interaction and it does a great job at gender separation, because its conservative. The end result? Our lives now are infinitely easier and low drama than in situation 1.

This hermit style separation also holds true for 'back in the day' style marriages where a family lived on a farm. They spent 99% of their time isolated there and then socialized at church, which was an institution with gender separation and an eye on minimizing temptation.

Maybe that is a viable solution for those who want to marry and have kids in this era.

[Mujeriego]

A lot of guys are letting this all women can be corrupted stuff go to their head. Nothing is going to be certain as WIA alluded to. Filter for character/habits and go from there.

[SpiderKing]

(11-23-2015 01:47 AM)The Father Wrote:  

Actually I think Sun-Tzu said to read chick lit before trying to conquer their vajay-jays, or something like that...

Yes. Sun-Tzu mentioned it in his seminal work, The Art of Whore.