[the Thing]

Hey guys. What I'm asking for is exactly what I described in the title.

Specifically; Just been on a job interview. It went well (meaning I expect them to make an offer) Then I drove back to my current job. Before that, I stopped at a mall to piss. And I found a phone in the restroom.

Half of my conscience says screw it your phone has one foot in the grave, consider it the universe's gift you were due for an upgrade anyway. Other half of my conscience thinks that me expecting an offer from the job (or them changing their mind at the last second) is somewhat linked to me returning this phone or not.

Logic dictates that the two events are not linked at all. What do you think the second half is, social conditioning? And what would RVF have done?

Just curious about this thing

[Pride male]

Karma does exist. I feel the universe does speak to us. You reap what you sow, the truth will out, you get what you give and what goes around comes around.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

I'd return it. Karma's real. That said, no good deed goes unpunished...

I've experience enough of life to realise that much of it is not logical at all, and that logic in and of itself may be a cognitive bias based on the way our brains are wired (i.e. I am somewhat convinced that logic is a cognitive illusion). Sometimes you have to throw logic out of the window and throw the dice and see what happens.

[the Thing]

(11-16-2015 12:21 PM)Pride male Wrote:  

Karma does exist. I feel the universe does speak to us. You reap what you sow, the truth will out, you get what you give and what goes around comes around.

I feel like that's mostly social conditioning. The universe only punished me for my own inaction so far, be it oversleeping for finals, not working hard enough, slacking off. I'm not responsible for some guy losing his phone, why should I get punished for it? I lost stuff before and I didn't blame anyone only myself for losing it.

That being said I have the phone running and I'll meet the owner and give it back if he calls it back. No way I'm driving all the way back to where I found it.

So this is only a discussion about the concept of Karma. I'm only wondering what you guys think.

[brob]

Personally, I think it's unlikely that Karma governs the universe, but regardless, I still try to live my life by the golden rule.

"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then what a sorry lot we are indeed." - Albert Einstein

[the Thing]

OK then I'll bring another angle to the discussion:



Suppose you're out one night at a club and things aren't going well. Around closing time, you see this yummy piece of Mexico's finest walking towards you. She's drunk out of her tits, she can't even walk straight, yet she begs you to take her home and fuck her till kingdom come.

If I were to bang her, would you guys call that rape?

[Geomann180]

(11-16-2015 01:27 PM)the Thing Wrote:  

OK then I'll bring another angle to the discussion:



Suppose you're out one night at a club and things aren't going well. Around closing time, you see this yummy piece of Mexico's finest walking towards you. She's drunk out of her tits, she can't even walk straight, yet she begs you to take her home and fuck her till kingdom come.

If I were to bang her, would you guys call that rape?

Without knowing anything else? Nope.

G

[Belgrano]

(11-16-2015 11:50 AM)the Thing Wrote:  

Other half of my conscience thinks that me expecting an offer from the job (or them changing their mind at the last second) is somewhat linked to me returning this phone or not.

Logic dictates that the two events are not linked at all.

They are most likely not linked in any way.
While it is clear that every action leads to a reaction, I would not go as far as saying that there is some higher power or principle that always rewards good deeds and always punishes bad deeds.

But moral and ethics matter when interacting with other humans. They are principles we look at when deciding on how we want to live together, and usually developed as best practice over a long time.
If you would be the only human alive, there would be no right or wrong. However, this changes when others appear on the stage.
You won´t be judged by Karma, but you will see the consequences of your actions in the actions of your fellow man.

If right now you happen to live in a high trust society and like it, meaning you enjoy the high quality of life and development that people looking out for each other and working together tend to create, contribute to maintaning it by returning the phone.
If you don´t care about it, don´t value it, or even want to see it decline and disappear, keep the phone and move on with your life.
It is your choice.

Just don´t be surprised if, as a simple example, one day something you lose will not be returned to you.
Some people would then call that bad karma and see it as some unavoidable, divine form of punishment.
Others would remind you that be the change you wish to see in the world is more than an empty phrase.

[LINUX]

1. Wipe it and enjoy
2. Return it

Which one of these is yes and which one is no?

[the Thing]

1 is No and 2 is Yes.

Edit:

(11-16-2015 02:33 PM)Celtic_Austrian Wrote:  

If right now you happen to live in a high trust society and like it, meaning you enjoy the high quality of life and development that people looking out for each other and working together tend to create, contribute to maintaning it by returning the phone.
If you don´t care about it, don´t value it, or even want to see it decline and disappear, keep the phone and move on with your life.
It is your choice.

This is bullshit.

If taking things we encounter for free is contributing to society's decline and disappearance, us RVF crowd have already fucked the society into oblivion by sleeping with drunk girls left and right.

If I drive distracted, run a red light and get T-boned at an intersection, when my insurance refuses to pay, can I blame them for their contribution to this society's (My ass.) decline and disappearance?

This entire argument about keeping the phone is moot because I have already given it back, hours ago. I remembered there was a huge job centre nearby and the phone was in Russian, figured it belonged to probably a Latvian/Polish seasonal worker and I didn't want to keep a job seeker's phone. I just want to see where the line should be drawn.

[LINUX]

People believe in Karma because it lets them think they are in control of their life -- good things happen to good people, bad things happen to bad people. It's an inability to accept that they do not have control.

I wish Karma existed , but it doesn't.

[Sherman]

Karma is the Eastern version of God's judgment. In the West, God evaluates whether a soul was good or bad and dispenses rewards and punishments. In the East, Karma does the same thing. God is a being with volition. Karma is completely mechanical according to laws that aren't understood. In the West you get one chance at life and are graded on your performance. In the East, if you are lucky you can go back to earth as a human and try to improve next time. They both provide solutions to the question: "Why do bad people get away with it". Answer: They don't. West - they get it when they die. East - They get it back in future lives and have more crap to dig out of.

[Pride male]

Do you have a conscience? I do. I know a few people who dont know the difference between right and wrong. Often wondered whether they were born that way, or they lost their conscience over time.

[262]

For lay people, karma can be the East's version of God's judgement.

But in another sense, it's more like, "the thief thinks everyone else is a thief."

Obviously you have to strike a balance - "The Middle Path" in Buddhism - between that and, "the innocent thinks everyone else is innocent."

[H1N1]

I don't wish to hijack the thread here, but it would be very interesting to know what people's religious stance is. A great many of the people I know who are vocal about karma, seem also to be amongst the first to inform you of their atheism. For me, it seems a somewhat inconsistent position.

[GlobalMan]

You should return it, but it has zero to do with any silly 'karma'.

You create the society you want to live in by your actions.

[rudebwoy]

Yes and I have seen it work...

[GlobalMan]

(11-16-2015 02:57 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

People believe in Karma because it lets them think they are in control of their life -- good things happen to good people, bad things happen to bad people. It's an inability to accept that they do not have control.

I wish Karma existed , but it doesn't.

So much this. It's the same thing when you hear people say god has a plan when some atrocity happens.

No, that's just life.

[Geomann180]

(11-16-2015 03:41 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

I don't wish to hijack the thread here, but it would be very interesting to know what people's religious stance is. A great many of the people I know who are vocal about karma, seem also to be amongst the first to inform you of their atheism. For me, it seems a somewhat inconsistent position.

I voted to return it. I'm more agnostic, but slowly returning to Catholic roots.

It's not that I believe in Karma, per se. I have a different rationale. I believe that I only have a certain amount of luck, in a way, so I wouldn't waste luck on getting away with stealing the phone and using it for your own purposes.

Secondly - murphy's law seems to come in to play.

Figured I'd go with full disclosure since I, like H1N1, am also very curious.

G

[chochemonger1]

(11-16-2015 12:21 PM)Pride male Wrote:  

Karma does exist. I feel the universe does speak to us. You reap what you sow, the truth will out, you get what you give and what goes around comes around.

Life is too short for that. It is only a whisper.

[ed pluribus unum]

(11-16-2015 03:45 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

You should return it, but it has zero to do with any silly 'karma'.

You create the society you want to live in by your actions.

Karma only applies to whoever has the morals or values which help them choose between right and wrong.

You know for yourself what is right and wrong (obviously very subjective); if you go against this 'inner voice' and choose wrong, then it may be reflected in your bearing and how you present yourself to the world. Maybe you keep the phone, knowing it is 'wrong', and the result is you perform poorly in the interview; you don't get the job. "Karma" for doing the wrong thing? Karma doesn't necessarily have to be some mystical cosmic force.

[cascadecombo]

Logic dictates one thing, another would be your own personal morals.

If taking the phone would make you feel poorly, then that could directly effect your state of mind. With an altered state of mind your behavior changes, from that I would say that "karma" could be considered in that sense. Otherwise, I don't really see there being an equilibrium to good and bad actions. If anything seeing the world as it is today, it's quite obvious there is no such thing.

It's like an excuse to take bad luck and assume it's in retribution for other past deeds that may not have been considered good.

Quote:

I don't wish to hijack the thread here, but it would be very interesting to know what people's religious stance is. A great many of the people I know who are vocal about karma, seem also to be amongst the first to inform you of their atheism. For me, it seems a somewhat inconsistent position.

I had never considered this, but after you mention it I can remember several examples. I would say that I am Christian, and do not believe karma to exist in a literal sense. Only in the sense that it is something people allows to change how they think and thusly how they act.

[PapayaTapper]

True story

About 18 mos ago I stopped in fast food joint to grab a quick sandwich. As I sit in the booth I felt something at my feet which turns out to be some guys wallet. I open it up and there's' some cash (maybe a couple hundred $...I didn't count it) and his student ID. Turns out he lives about a half mile away, so I shove the wallet in large envelope from the trunk of my car, drive over there, and put it in his mail box with his name on it,...anonymously.

Two / 3 weeks ago I go for a long bike ride with a buddy on a Sunday morning. It was a freakishly hot day (like a 103 deg F) for coastal So Cal so after the ride I stopped by the beach a couple blocks from my house for a swim. I shove everything,: keys, ph, sunglasses wallet, in my back pack to leave on the beach. Afterwards I ride home, put the bike away, throw back pack in the closet and dont think about it until later that day. When I go to get my stuff from the backpack my wallet is gone. It must have fallen out on either the walk up from the beach, or the short ride home. Either way it's gone. Some cash but of course the bigger pain in the ass is the CCs and ID's...crap

Long story short, 3 days later and before I'd even made an appt to replace my DL at DMV, mail man delivers a thick envelope with, ...you guessed it,...my wallet, which someone had sent, cash and all...anonymously

I don't necessarily believe in Karma but I definitely believe you generally get what you "filter for" out of life

[PapayaTapper]

(11-16-2015 01:27 PM)the Thing Wrote:  

OK then I'll bring another angle to the discussion:



Suppose you're out one night at a club and things aren't going well. Around closing time, you see this yummy piece of Mexico's finest walking towards you. She's drunk out of her tits, she can't even walk straight, yet she begs you to take her home and fuck her till kingdom come.

If I were to bang her, would you guys call that rape?

I'd call that you cockblocking me.

[dies irae]

In 2010, I lost my phone while entering a stadium for a football game. When I found my seat I realised that my phone is not in my pocket anymore. Since there were 60000 people in the audience, I wrote the phone off and decided to enjoy the game. It was this game:

While watching the second half of the game, the man next to me was holding my phone in his hand and asked me "is this yours?". I said yes and asked him where did he find it. He said it was passed to him from the adjacent seat. I realised that my phone traveled the whole tribune from hand to hand until it found its owner. Not a single person in the audience pocketed it.

To this day, I still find it incredible.