[Anabasis to Desta]

I'm 25 with a useless Applied Science degree and have been working in Oil/Gas for the past 2 years. I recently got laid off and have 0 interest in going back.

Being closer to 30 than 18, i just cant bring myself to go back to undergrad and get a worthwhile degree in STEM considering the commitment in time and lost income. I'm also doubting the utility of an MBA which led me to look into Physician Assistant programs.

Most programs take 24 months to complete. Starting salaries are in the 60-75 k range, with mid-career salaries well into the six figures. I also only need about 21 credits in order to fulfill all my prerequisites.

From what I've read on several forums (StudentDoctorNetwork forums mostly) the lifestyle isn't that bad either. Mostly regular 40-50 hour work weeks. But since most guys on there are either PA's, in PA school or actively working on getting into PA school, i can't help but suspect all the pros are being hyped up.

What are you guys' thoughts on PA as a career path?

[The Black Knight]

As a non-PA but knows a bit about the field, the best quote I've heard regarding PA vs MD is that: you do 90% of the work, get 50% of the pay, and 10% the respect of an MD.

The most common frustration that seems to come about is that there is no way as a PA to lateral out into some form of true independent practice like nurse practitioners can in some states; who often have less clinical training than PA's. When you're fresh, that seems like a blessing. When you have 10 years experience, that can be very frustrating. Some people are drawn to PA programs due to the lack of liability but PAs can be sued to hell and back just as much as MDs; especially today since they are often utilized in functions that walk the line in regards to capability/competence of said PA. It's all about that bottom dollar.

Furthermore, PAs have very little political/cultural support since they fall under MDs while NPs often have the entire nursing lobby backing them. As a PA, even with 20 years experience, you will always be some MDs bitch and will often be in direct competition with NPs; who have more overall support... which effects job prospects/quality of life ultimately.

The reason many people consider PA school is because they think its a relatively quick way into a stable gig that is above a more medical grunt job like nursing or some kind of tech job. The other supposed major bonus is that PAs can move about different specialties relatively easily with little re-training time but that is changing from all indications I've seen (look into something called PAQ's). Residences for PAs are starting to become more of a thing and at that point, PA programs lose one of their major selling points.

The overall sentiment is that if you are relatively young and starting from the beginning (no pre-reqs/no experience), going to medical school is the best option in the majority of cases. You didn't say you had any medical experience. Do you? If not, you have to include that in your schedule of things to do prior to applying to a PA program. Depending on the the PA school, you're looking at 1-2 years no bullshit experience (like being an EMT full-time); perhaps more for the most reputable and respected PA schools like the University of Washington's PA program. Remember, PA programs are designed for prior medical professionals like medics, nurses, and the like. Not new people who don't even know the basics who are looking for a quick fix into a stable job. You can find some bullshit schools that will take weak/little experience but you don't want to waste your time with them; both for your own professional development and competency as well as for your future patients health and safety.

That all said, I would suggest looking into getting a BSN over a PA degree. Quicker to get done, good pay, flexible hours, very portable, hourly pay oftentimes, lots of overtime, travel ops, lots of ops for men to move up given the lopsided gender ratios (especially into management), lateral fields like CRNA or NP that make solid bank. Given what you have said your position is, you'd be better off going to MD school if seriously considering PA school. And not to be a dick, but you don't really sound committed to the idea which you really need to be for either a PA or MD program. An undergrad STEM degree, commitment wise, is small potatoes for what you would give up for either a PA or MD program. The PA program on the surface might seem quicker but when you factor in necessary experience needed prior to applying and the on-the-job training in your first PA job, you are looking at a massive time commitment in the end and as mentioned before, for much less pay and respect. Hence again, the BSN I think is the best option given what you have said thus far.

One last thing: I also wouldn't bother with any of this until you have done a few volunteer shifts in a busy hospital and made sure you can handle the real deal life of working in the medical field. Either you will double down on your commitment to the medical field and be engulfed with passion or you will be so put off for whatever reason, that you won't give this shit another thought. Save yourself sometime and do this sooner rather than later.

[Anabasis to Desta]

^^ Repped

You're right in your assertion that I'm not a 100 % committed yet. Keep in mind that I've barely even heard about this profession until late this summer & am still playing yo-yo with the idea.

I will update this thread the more i find out and progress along this journey.

Thanks for the info!

[Mentavious]

How's the journey coming along?

Pm me if you want to bounce some ideas around.

[Dusty]

How about Nurse Anesthesiologist? They basically do the work of a MD Anesthesiologist (usually under the supervision of an MD), make big bucks, but don't have to go to medical school.

[Cattle Rustler]

I thought you were going to the Chair Force?

TBK touched some points on PA school, just know that it's also expensive although not the same as Med School. Some states are now requiring NPs to have a PhD where before a Masters in Nursing would have been sufficient, they rolled this out in Texas last year. With MCOs being shoved down people's throat, the pay for a PA/RN will now increase as much as before and in some cases might be cut down. BSN/PA school is no joke and quite intensive, most people will have trouble with A&P and spend sleepless nights trying to get with the program.

There are many things in the medical field that you can do as a PA/RN, have you looked into what interested you? You can work with:

• Dialysis Patients (worse to work with, grumpy and blame their condition on you)
• Geriatrics
• Hospice
• Post-Surg
• MDs Office
• Pediatrics
• Home Health
• Hospital/ER
• Transplant unit
  

[Anabasis to Desta]

Shit forgot about this thread. I think it was my first post here.

Updates

I am finishing up all my remaining pre-reqs and should be done by end of July. Besides the Physician's Assistant program, I also looked into the following professions seriously. I think some of you might be interested if Med School/Residency sounds like too much of a time/lifestyle commitment for you.

1. Cardiac Perfusionist : 2 year post graduate program. Starting salaries in the 75-85k range. A Cardiac Perfusionist operates a heart-lung machine which propels oxygenated blood to the patient’s tissues while the surgeon operates on the heart. You also manage the physiological and metabolic demands of the patient while the cardiac surgeon operates on the heart.

You'll spend most of your time in the OR suite for cardiac cases, but may also work in cardiovascular intensive care units (CIVICU) and catheterization labs. I've heard & read that the job is monotonous and boring but not bad for a 2 year masters. Regular 40 hour weeks ... ample time to travel and do other shit.

2) Prosthetist/Orthotics: 2 year Masters program. Starting salaries in the 60-65 k range. It's some weird branch of rehabilitation medicine which I had never even heard of.

Orthotist/prosthetists treat a wide variety of clients such as children born with congenital limb deficiency or cerebral palsy, people who have had an amputation following an accident, patients with muscular weakness after a stroke or spinal injury, patients with diabetic foot ulcers or the elderly who have lost a limb as a result of vascular disease.

Job and salary prospects look excellent. Despite all that i figured both jobs are just not for me. They don't suit my interests or talents. Could not see myself doing that for the rest of my life.

Also applied to two Anesthesiologist Assistant programs back in December. Got rejected by both. Had decent MCAT scores and like 35 hours of shadowing experience. But they do background checks. Any previous issues with Alcohol/Drugs are instant dis-qualifiers because of the nature of the profession.

Have a DUI on my record so it was bye-bye to that option too.

*******

So instead, I decided to enlist in the Army as a Flight Warrant Officer since I already got a couple hundred hours back from the Ethio Airforce. The US Army offers excellent opportunities if you plan on pursuing a career in Medicine.

1. The USUHC Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences... which is located in Bethesda, Maryland. So many opportunities for active ENLISTED duty members which include

- EMPD2 (Enlisted to Medical Degree Preparatory program): 2 year coursework in which the Army will pay you to go to school, formally prepare for the MCAT and finish all the pre-reqs.

The 2 years will be counted as Active Duty as well. The program has a tight partnership with several MD and DO schools most notably George Mason University.

2. If you already got accepted to Medical/Dental/Optometry/Podiatry school you can go in as a Commissioned Officer. Fucking easy. Full Tuition paid along with a $2000/month stipend in exchange for servingas an Army Doc for the same number of years they schooled you for.

Full Officer's salary, excellent benefits and the rank of Captain by the time you graduate.

3. Accelerated Doctor of Science in Occupational Therapy Program

If you have a Bachelors in Occupational therapy, you can apply for an 18-month ... YES an 18 month!! Doctoral program at Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas. 70 K starting salary once you get out, Veteran and a "Doctor" lol. Plus a relatively easy job.

Life rarely goes the way we plan it but for now I'm keeping my options open.

[Fast Eddie]

I would advise anyone the right side of 30 to do med school rather than PA. Let's crunch the facts:

PA school is mostly 2 years with some programs being 3 years while med school is 4 years. Obviously that's a time difference there, but let's be real, we're talking about a whopping 2 years. That 2 year difference is not something to shape your life around, in my opinion.

Moving on. PAs can go straight into the workforce after their 2 year programs while physicians have to complete a residency of at minimum 3 years before they're fully licensed to practice independently. So that makes it seem like the real comparison of length of training is 2 years for PAs vs 7+ years for MDs.

Sure. But Residency is paid, to the tune of 50-60k a year. That's not too far off from starting PA salary. Furthermore, residents can moonlight after their first year. This can consist of doing physicals and disability evals for $1000 a day, to working in the ED at $200+/hr. So you can actually make double what a PA makes as a resident if you go hard at moonlighting.

For guys on this forum, I would recommend going into Emergency Medicine, for a few reasons. First of all, the residency is short at 3 years, and you can easily moonlight. So all things be told, by year 5 of the process (1st year of residency) you're making 60k, by year 6 that's 100k, and by year 7 can be as high as 150k if you moonlight aggressively. Then you're an attending.

As an attending, current rates in emergency medicine for contract work in undesirable locations can be $300/hr and up. So think about that for a second. If you sign a 1 month contract and work 25 10-hour shifts in that month, you can make upwards of 75k in that month. Then you can just chill for a while in whichever part of the world you'd like before signing another locums contract. That's pretty damn sweet, and in my way of thinking more than makes up for the longer path compared to being a PA.

Or if you're really money hungry, you go into Orthopedic Surgery and become a spine surgeon. Their median salary is $800k and 90th percentile salary is $2m. This is about the only "career" where you just have to put your head down and follow a highly defined pathway in order to achieve a 7-figure yearly income.

This is from an entirely financial side, mind you, and doesn't even get into the fact that being a "doctor" instantaneously elevates you in the minds of most people to a status exceeded only by the true elites, eg the rich and famous. Being a physician is sexy; telling a girl you're a physician assistant dries the pussy out cause you're basically admitting to being someone's inferior, ie bitch.

[scubadude]

I'm an RN and wrapping up NP school and second everything Fast Eddie said. With the exception of the age part. I'd push that up to mid to late 30's maybe even early 40's depending on situation.

Over the years I've seen many, many NP's & PA's decide to go to med school. Financially it makes sense if you have at least 15-20 years left. I can see no reason for someone under 30 to go NP or PA as 1st choice. Try for med school first if that's your interest.

As far as those salaries go that Fast Eddie mentions. Those are true too. Residents can moonlight in all kinds of environments and make some serious cash. Some that require little more than your presence on the property i.e. sleep labs. However, if you are asking these questions on this board I will throw it out there that you will probably not match with any of the ROADS specialties. They are very competitive and many of those people have been working on making themselves competitive since highschool. I know people that had a 3.8-3.9 GPA in med school and didn't match in less competitive specialties and had to scramble and ended up in family practice. So aim high but don't count on it. http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/ama-wire/pos...ppens-next

Also EM takes a special kind of person and has high burnout rates. It is stressful. You don't understand stress until you are standing there waiting on an ambulance bringing in a 3 year old in full arrest.

Quote:

This is from an entirely financial side, mind you, and doesn't even get into the fact that being a "doctor" instantaneously elevates you in the minds of most people to a status exceeded only by the true elites, eg the rich and famous. Being a physician is sexy; telling a girl you're a physician assistant dries the pussy out cause you're basically admitting to being someone's inferior, ie bitch.

Kinda, except those in medical field know that you're still administrations bitch. Plus most women know that PA is a 100k job and that keeps them wet.

As far as NP vs. PA goes. Same job duties, different education. I will say that PA's get a better education but NP's have better scope of practice in many states. Need to research it more than I will type it out here before you decide which way to go.