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NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"
#1

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

NYMag article "Why Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad" claims that consensual sex represents "power imbalances", that women should address the "orgasm gap," and "broaden the scope" of what sexual equality means.

This is all part of the strategy to expand the definition of rape in order to restrain and control men and protect women from their decisions.

Quote:Quote:

Last winter, Reina Gattuso was a Harvard senior majoring in literature and gender studies and writing a biweekly column for the college newspaper, the Crimson. She covered a variety of subjects, among them her sexuality (she identifies as queer) and Harvard’s byzantine class hierarchies, and she wrote a regular feature called “Four Dollar Wine Critic.” In February, she dedicated her column to the subject of sexist sex.

Gattuso is not against sex by any means. “I don’t say yes. I say oh, yes. I say yes, please,” she wrote. And she did say yes at a booze-soaked party hosted by a group of men she didn’t know. One of the men told her that because she was bisexual, he assumed she was “particularly down to fuck.” He said she could make out with his girlfriend if she would hook up with another of the men.

“I have so much to drink my memory becomes dark water, brief flashes when I flicker up for air,” Gattuso wrote. “I’m being kissed. There’s a boy, then another boy. I keep asking if I’m pretty. I keep saying yes.” But in the morning, she wrote, “I feel weird about what went down” and was unsure how to express her feelings of dissatisfaction and confusion over “such a fucked-up experience.”

Eventually, she realized that what she was grappling with was not just the night in question but also the failure of campus feminism to address those kinds of experiences. We tend to talk about consent “as an individual process,” she wrote, “not asking ‘What kinds of power are operating in this situation?’ but only ‘Did you or did you not say yes?’ ” Feminists, she continued, “sometimes talk about ‘yes’ and ‘no’ like they’re uncomplicated … But ethical sex is hard. And it won’t stop being hard until we … minimize, as much as possible, power imbalances related to sex.”

It may feel as though contemporary feminists are always talking about the power imbalances related to sex, thanks to the recently robust and radical campus campaigns against rape and sexual assault. But contemporary feminism’s shortcomings may lie in not its over­radicalization but rather its under­radicalization. Because, outside of sexual assault, there is little critique of sex. Young feminists have adopted an exuberant, raunchy, confident, righteously unapologetic, slut-walking ideology that sees sex — as long as it’s consensual — as an expression of feminist liberation. The result is a neatly halved sexual universe, in which there is either assault or there is sex positivity. Which means a vast expanse of bad sex — joyless, exploitative encounters that reflect a persistently sexist culture and can be hard to acknowledge without sounding prudish — has gone largely uninterrogated, leaving some young women wondering why they feel so fucked by fucking.

Feminism has a long, complicated relationship to sex, one that has cycled from embrace to critique and back again. By the time a generation of women woke feminism from its backlash slumber around the millennium, the sex wars of the 1980s were long over. Some second-wave feminists, including Andrea Dworkin and Catharine MacKinnon, had seen sex, pornography, and sexism as all of a piece, finding it impossible to pick the strands of pleasure from the suffocating fabric of oppression. So-called sex-positive feminists — Ellen Willis, Joan Nestle, Susie Bright — set themselves against what they saw as this puritanical slant. The sex-positive crusaders won the war for a million reasons, perhaps especially because their work offered optimism: that sexual agency and equality were available to women, that we were not destined to live our sexual lives as objects or victims, that we could take our pleasures and our power too. They won because sex can be fun and thrilling and because, for the most part, human beings want very badly to partake of it.

So it was only natural that when feminism was resurrected by young women creating a new movement, it was self-consciously sex friendly, insouciant in its approach to the signs and symbols of objectification. No one would ever mistake these feminists for humorless harridans or frigid dick-rejectors. But the underpinning philosophy had shifted slightly. Sex positivity was originally a term used to describe a theory of women, sex, and power; it advocated for any kind of sexual behavior — from kink to celibacy to conscious power play — that women might enjoy on their own terms and not on terms dictated by a misogynistic culture. Now it has become shorthand for a brand of feminism that was a cheerleader for, not a censor of, sex — all sex. Feminism’s sexual focus narrowed in on one issue: coercion and violence. Sex that took place without clear consent wasn’t even sex; it was rape.

In this line of thinking, sex after yes, sex without violence or coercion, is good. Sex is feminist. And empowered women are supposed to enjoy the hell out of it. In fact, Alexandra Brodsky, a Yale law student and founder of anti-rape organization Know Your IX, tells me that she has heard from women who feel that “not having a super-exciting, super-positive sex life is in some ways a political failure.”

Except that young women don’t always enjoy sex — and not because of any innately feminine psychological or physical condition. The hetero (and non-hetero, but, let’s face it, mostly hetero) sex on offer to young women is not of very high quality, for reasons having to do with youthful ineptitude and tenderness of hearts, sure, but also the fact that the game remains rigged.

It’s rigged in ways that go well beyond consent. Students I spoke to talked about “male sexual entitlement,” the expectation that male sexual needs take priority, with men presumed to take sex and women presumed to give it to them. They spoke of how men set the terms, host the parties, provide the alcohol, exert the influence. Male attention and approval remain the validating metric of female worth, and women are still (perhaps increasingly) expected to look and fuck like porn stars — plucked, smooth, their pleasure performed persuasively. Meanwhile, male climax remains the accepted finish of hetero encounters; a woman’s orgasm is still the elusive, optional bonus round. Then there are the double standards that continue to redound negatively to women: A woman in pursuit is loose or hard up; a man in pursuit is healthy and horny. A woman who says no is a prude or a cock tease; a man who says no is rejecting the woman in question. And now these sexual judgments cut in two directions: Young women feel that they are being judged either for having too much sex, or for not having enough, or enough good, sex. Finally, young people often have very drunk sex, which in theory means subpar sex for both parties, but which in practice is often worse (like, physically worse) for women.

As Olive Bromberg, a 22-year-old genderqueer sophomore at Evergreen State, sees it, modern notions of sex positivity only reinforce this gendered power imbalance. “There seems to be an assumption that is ‘Oh, you’re sexual, that means you’ll be sexual with me,’” Bromberg says. “It feeds into this sense of male sexual entitlement via sexual liberation of oneself, and it’s really fucked.”

And again, this is all part of consensual sex, the kind that is supposed to be women’s feminist reward. There’s a whole other level of confusion around the smudgy margins when it comes to experiences like the one I had at college 20 years ago. It was an encounter that today’s activists might call “rape”; which feminist hobgoblin Katie Roiphe, whose anti-rape-activist screed The Morning After was then all the rage, would have called “bad sex”; and which I understood at the time to be not atypical of much of the sex available to my undergraduate peers: drunk, brief, rough, debatably agreed upon, and not one bit pleasurable. It was an encounter to which I consented for complicated reasons, and in which my body participated but I felt wholly absent.

“A lot of sex feels like this,” Gattuso wrote in May, after her popular Crimson columns drew the attention of Feministing, a website at which she has since become a contributor. “Sex where we don’t matter. Where we may as well not be there. Sex where we don’t say no, because we don’t want to say no, sex where we say yes even, when we’re even into it, but where we fear … that if we did say no, or if we don’t like the pressure on our necks or the way they touch us, it wouldn’t matter. It wouldn’t count, because we don’t count.”

This is not pearl-clutching over the moral or emotional hazards of “hookup culture.” This is not an objection to promiscuity or to the casual nature of some sexual encounters. First of all, studies have shown that today’s young people are actually having less sex than their parents did. Second, old-fashioned relationships, from courtship to marriage, presented their own risks for women. Having humiliating sex with a man who treats you terribly at a frat party is bad but not inherently worse than being publicly shunned for having had sex with him, or being unable to obtain an abortion after getting pregnant by him, or being doomed to have disappointing sex with him for the next 50 years. But it’s still bad in ways that are worth talking about.

Maya Dusenbery, editorial director at Feministing, says that she increasingly hears questions from young women on college campuses that are “not just about violence but all the other bullshit they’re dealing with sexually — how they can get guys to get them off, for instance. I think they need feminists to put forth a positive alternative vision for what sex could be and isn’t. And it’s not just about rape. That’s not the only reason that sexual culture is shitty.”

And it’s not as if that culture disappears upon graduation. Dusenbery, who is now 29, speaks of her “great feminist shame”: After a decade of sexual activity, she very often still doesn’t get off. “In one way that feels so superficial, but then, if I believe sexual pleasure is important, that’s terrible! Come on, Maya! Communicate!” She winds up feeling bad for not having done the work of telling her partners how to make her feel good. “What I want is not for me to have that burden. I want one of my male partners, who are wonderful men who care about me, to have just once been like, ‘No, this is unacceptable to me. I’m not going to continue to have sex with you when you’re not getting off!’ And I can’t imagine that happening.”

Gattuso, who is now on a Fulbright fellowship in India, writes to me in an email: “I sometimes think that in our real, deep, important feminist desire to communicate that sexual violence is absolutely and utterly not okay … we can forget that we are often hurt in ways more subtle and persistent … And we can often totally forget that at the end of the day, sex is also about pleasure.”

Pleasure! Women want pleasure, or at least an equal shot at it. That doesn’t mean some prim quid-pro-quo sexual chore-chart. No one’s saying that sex can’t be complicated and perverse, its pleasures reliant — for some — on riffing on old power imbalances. But its complications can and should be mutually borne, offering comparable degrees of self-determination and satisfaction to women and men.

After all, sex is also, still, political. Contemporary feminism asks us to acknowledge that women “can have as many partners as men, initiate sex as freely as men, without being brutalized and stigmatized, and that’s great,” says Salamishah Tillet, a professor of English and Africana studies at the University of Pennsylvania and a co-founder of A Long Walk Home, an organization that works to end violence against women. The problem arises, she continues, with the feeling that “that alone will mean we’re equal. That alone is not an answer to a system of persistent sexual domination or exploitation. These women are still having these encounters within that larger structure, and men are not being asked to think of the women having sex as their equal partners.”

The black feminist tradition has never completely bought into sex positivity as a means toward a political end. Stereotypes of hypersexualization have always made it harder for black women to be believed as victims of sexual assault and also made it harder for them to engage in a sex-positive culture. Just last year, bell hooks startled an audience during an interview by suggesting that “the face of … liberatory sexuality” for black women might be celibacy.

I am not suggesting that contemporary feminism do away with its sex-positive framework or with its anti-rape activism. But it may need to add a new angle of critique. Describing the strain of popular sex positivity often simply understood as “You get it, girl,” Brodsky says, “I think of it sometimes as Lean In for good sex. In that there are these structural factors that are conspiring against terrific sex, but at work or in the bedroom, if you have the magic word, if you try hard enough, if you are good enough, you can transcend those.” Like Lean In, this kind of sex boosterism can be very valuable. But, continues Brodsky, we need to add to it, just as we do in the workplace. “We need both collective solutions and individual solutions.”

Dusenbery imagines a world in which feminists stop using the language of combat — as in combating rape culture — and instead set out to promote a specific vision of what sexual equality could entail. “It would include so much more: from the orgasm gap to the truly criminal sexual miseducation of our youth to abortion rights to the sexual double standard. Broadening the scope would not only push us to provide the same kind of deep analysis that’s been developed around rape culture in recent years but also help us better see the connections between all the inequities in the sexual culture.”

One thing that’s clear is that feminists need to raise the bar for women’s sex lives way, way higher. “Sure, teaching consent to college freshmen may be necessary in a culture in which kids are graduating from high school thinking it’s okay to have sex with someone who is unconscious,” says Dusenbery. “But I don’t want us to ever lose sight of the fact that consent is not the goal. Seriously, God help us if the best we can say about the sex we have is that it was consensual.”
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#2

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

I wish I could add some erudite and useful commentary, but after reading the first two paragraphs my head hurt, bad. So I stopped. And they wonder why we are not attracted to the "educated" and "motivated" ones.
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#3

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Quote: (10-20-2015 05:25 PM)Lucky Wrote:  

NYMag article "Why Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad" claims that consensual sex represents "power imbalances", that women should address the "orgasm gap," and "broaden the scope" of what sexual equality means.

This is all part of the strategy to expand the definition of rape in order to restrain and control men and protect women from their decisions.

Quote:Quote:

Last winter, Reina Gattuso was a Harvard senior majoring in literature and gender studies and writing a biweekly column for the college newspaper, the Crimson. She covered a variety of subjects, among them her sexuality (she identifies as queer) and Harvard’s byzantine class hierarchies, and she wrote a regular feature called “Four Dollar Wine Critic.” In February, she dedicated her column to the subject of sexist sex.

Gattuso is not against sex by any means.“I don’t say yes. I say oh, yes. I say yes, please,” she wrote. And she did say yes at a booze-soaked party hosted by a group of men she didn’t know. One of the men told her that because she was bisexual, he assumed she was “particularly down to fuck.” He said she could make out with his girlfriend if she would hook up with another of the men.

“I have so much to drink my memory becomes dark water, brief flashes when I flicker up for air,” Gattuso wrote. “I’m being kissed. There’s a boy, then another boy. I keep asking if I’m pretty. I keep saying yes.”But in the morning, she wrote, “I feel weird about what went down” and was unsure how to express her feelings of dissatisfaction and confusion over “such a fucked-up experience.”

That's a hell of a wingman. Which one of you was that?
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#4

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

This is more excrement from NYmag, which is generally to the left of Salon and Jezebel.

Spare yourself the consumed data, the rise in blood pressure, the loss of brain cells and the spare minutes you will never get back by trying to analyze this rubbish.

"A cucumber is bitter; throw it away. There are briars in the road; turn aside from them. This is enough. Do not add, "And why were such things made in the world?"
— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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#5

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Oh no, bad, very bad. It is fucking impossible to guarantee a good sexual experience for everyone every time. Please do not let this bitch gain traction, shit is bad enough as it is with "Yes Means Yes". This bitch is advocating for "Yes Means Maybe?".

EDIT
The comments are taking this stupid bitch to TOWN! There is hope for humanity yet, even the women are calling her out on her shit. The truth is never in the article, it is always in the comments.

Delicious Tacos is the voice of my generation....
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#6

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Queer indeed. Really fucking strange.

I also gave up reading this mess a third of the way through.
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#7

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

I'm actually curious why you are reading articles like this to begin with.
I can't say I've ever read a article on a website about feminist or anything like that. I only see this stuff when I'm on the forum.

I am the cock carousel
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#8

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

This article just proves the point women are insane outside of the male frame.
They really do have penis envy. They cannot get over our power to lay them down, bang them out and inseminate them. They want that power over men. It kills some of them to be on the receiving end. Such is insanity. Want what you cant ever have.
They cant embrace the power of giving life. Feeling the kicking baby inside responding to their voice. Idiots.
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#9

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

New York City was the only place I ever visited where street vendors would sell obscure Marxist literary magazines. I remember going there and finding whole shops devoted to the kind of looney left publications stuck in the basement of bookstores in the Midwest. Guess they had a market for it in the Big Apple.
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#10

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

TL;DR: "I'm particularly fucked in the head, even for an american woman".
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#11

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Called it.

Women having sex they later regret is now a social issue.

Give it some time and they'll try to make it a criminal one.

Quote: (02-26-2015 01:57 PM)delicioustacos Wrote:  
They were given immense wealth, great authority, and strong clans at their backs.

AND THEY USE IT TO SHIT ON WHORES!
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#12

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Quote:Quote:

It was an encounter to which I consented for complicated reasons, and in which my body participated but I felt wholly absent.

Instead of taking that sensation as a giant, blaring red alarm that what she's doing is wrong and unhealthy, she decides to double down on what she's doing and conduct an infinite search for malignant factors that might be plotting against her by sounding the alarm.

"Imagine" by HCE | Hitler reacts to Battle of Montreal | An alternative use for squid that has never crossed your mind before
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#13

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Read about three sentences, and it was already a downward spiral of lunacy and a pathetic desperation to be noticed for her insight.

Sped down, caught some idiotic buzzwords, bolded sentences and the name Dworkin, and realised "yes, every man should spare you from having to endure any sex forever more".

Discard this to the "humans of no value" pile and get on with your life.

Oh, and this is a gender studies graduate everyone. Surprised? Didn't think so. They churn out this type of fuckwit.
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#14

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

The more I read articles from sex and gender experts, the more I learn they don't anything about what it means to be a human being.
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#15

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Again with the regret over poor choices. If these women would stop putting themselves in situations where they allow themselves to get themselves drunk, which obviously has a higher probability of ending in sex, this wouldn't be an issue. Women need to hold themselves accountable for their actions.

Vice-Captain - #TeamWaitAndSee
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#16

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Quote: (10-21-2015 07:17 AM)alexdagr81 Wrote:  

The more I read articles from sex and gender experts, the more I learn they don't anything about what it means to be a human being.

The 'Expert'. WYB?

[Image: a-Rebecca%20Traister_0.png]

[Image: fa7de9d27b2a0e428d3371b81a6ff31c.jpg]
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#17

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

“It would include so much more: from the orgasm gap to the truly criminal sexual miseducation of our youth to abortion rights to the sexual double standard. Broadening the scope would not only push us to provide the same kind of deep analysis that’s been developed around rape culture in recent years but also help us better see the connections between all the inequities in the sexual culture.”

I can see where they are trying to go: if consent is given but the man doesn't give the woman an "equal" orgasm then it's rape.
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#18

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

I wouldn't even know where to look to find women that would even potentially think this kind of stuff. This is like a NYT "trend" piece, where the trend is about 4 people the author knows.
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#19

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Bitches complain about the orgasm gap now.

The only thing these losers can address is the thigh gap because they'll never have one.

“I have a very simple rule when it comes to management: hire the best people from your competitors, pay them more than they were earning, and give them bonuses and incentives based on their performance. That’s how you build a first-class operation.”
― Donald J. Trump

If you want some PDF's on bodyweight exercise with little to no equipment, send me a PM and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.
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#20

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Quote:Quote:

Last winter, Reina Gattuso was a Harvard senior majoring in literature and gender studies and writing a biweekly column for the college newspaper, the Crimson. She covered a variety of subjects, among them her sexuality (she identifies as queer) and Harvard’s byzantine class hierarchies, and she wrote a regular feature called “Four Dollar Wine Critic.” In February, she dedicated her column to the subject of sexist sex.

Quote:Quote:

Reina Gattuso

[Image: nne1ZTm.png]
[Image: 4gZhGAS.jpg]
[Image: gq7812l.jpg]




[Image: kOHkrZz.gif]

Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know thy enemy but not yourself, wallow in defeat every time.
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#21

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Mind the gap
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#22

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

In order to change the orgasm gap, you'd have to change male-female biology itself. Because or procreation, it's simply easier for men to orgasm.

This piece reeks of a woman who cannot accept her own anatomy. It's the equivalent of a man writing that for true "equality," men should be able to give birth.

This all falls under what Sigmund Freud called "penis envy." This woman clearly wishes she had the appendage of a man and therefore could have sex like one.

I wonder how long it will be before women start calling for some sort of chemical castration of men in the name of equal rights. Meaning they'll have the state mandate when men can and can't ejaculate "because equality." Don't laugh; it's headed towards this.
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#23

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Quote: (10-21-2015 06:26 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

Mind the gap

It's the next big thing: The Orgasm Gap -- The Daily Beast

Check it: women who are concerned about having a good orgasm are more than willing to explicitly tell you how they like it. And they should. It's on them to speak up frankly and forthrightly if they don't drive like a "regular stick-shift car". This tripe is just more vengeance of un-accountability and what they see as "victim blaming" -- "it's not her fault that she didn't have an orgasm, it's yours."

But don't get me wrong: I love female biology and nervous systems and pay attention. It's more fun to fuck with a woman in the throws of ecstatic orgasm than a cold fish only "doing it for England (and/or Free-Sex Feminism)". It's the... Economy of Dancing.
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#24

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Why is it always the ugliest women who care most about "consent"?
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#25

NYMag: "Consensual Sex Can Still Be Bad"

Quote: (10-21-2015 07:11 PM)Biologist Wrote:  

Why is it always the ugliest women who care most about "consent"?

Maybe because the men they are fucking care the least about them and thus are the least considerate?

I'm telling you guys, the goto response for something like this has to be "Tell me what other interesting things you've been doing with your vagina." Certainly men have written similarly self-involved things about their sex lives, cocks, masturbation, etc., from Portnoy's Complaint on. But we haven't had the temerity to demand that the quality of our orgasms be recognized as a political issue.
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