[TheDuncan]

I'll give you an example, cute neighbor moves in, baby, husband, nice little family.

You run game and end up smashing while dudes at work, should YOU feel any guilt at all?

Sure she could have not gone through with it and all that but damn...

[pheonix500000]

(10-19-2015 06:06 PM)TheDuncan Wrote:  

I'll give you an example, cute neighbor moves in, baby, husband, nice little family.

You run game and end up smashing while dudes at work, should YOU feel any guilt at all?

Sure she could have not gone through with it and all that but damn...

Lets be real here, if its not you it will be someone else.

[Turkish Republican]

I'll let it be someone else. I wont mess with a family unless they are in a open relationship.
However if there is no marriage and a kid in the mix, then it's game on if she gives IOI's.

[WanderingSoul]

You might feel a bullet in the head on that one.

[The Beast1]

I used to have a mentality where I thought, "Better me than someone else."

Nowadays, I find myself disgusted with myself for such thinking. Why? I don't know. I was never raised to feel shame for carnal desires so having it appear now is very strange.

I guess what breaks me down most is the lack of loyalty between women and men. I fault women more being the buyers in this market, but still even as a guy knowing i'd be screwing over another potentially good dude just sinks in my head.

And as for dudes, I seriously question the loyalty and character of most men I see around me. Had a recent experience where this guy talked red pill stuff to me in private and proceeded to suck up to this "independent, strong, liberated" friend of his he hadn't seen in 2 years. They had banged previously but shit this dude went limp dick morals. Kissed her ass and got laid.

Even my "strong, liberated" fuck buddy was well aware of my red pill beliefs and still hooped on. She liked the honesty and hilariously enough is giving her LTR a lot of care and concern. Sure she's a slut, but I can respect a girl who tries.

Rambling about my life aside, my only warning is to be watchful. Your conscience will sneak up on you and saddle yourself with guilt whether you want it or not.

[cascadecombo]

Quote:

Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche

So long as you can wake in the morning and look into the mirror with no qualms.

[thoughtgypsy]

For that situation my personal dividing line would be whether she instigated it, or you were the one who proactively pushed the situation. If she did all the running and you capitalized on it, the fault lies with her. Remember, you didn't make any promises of fidelity to her husband and family, she did.

In general though, there's always going to be times where we cross the line or get into a moral grey area. Nobody's perfect and occasionally we do wrong to others and feel bad about it. Being able to acknowledge that is part of being a healthy human being. I'd be more concerned if I never felt guilty about anything, as that's a sure sign of a descent into sociopathy.

[WestIndianArchie]

Without a doubt you should feel guilty if you actively pursued a taken woman.

You should feel guilty if you bang a chick that's desperate for you to be her boyfriend and is willing to trade her body for it.

You should feel guilty for letting a girl get attached, for stringing her along, for fucking her friends behind her back.

And then you should learn to be an adult and live with negative feelings and deal with the consequences of your actions.

Lots of guys do not want to own their actions because they don't want to deal with their feelings. They would rather rationalize what they do, or retreat into some thought construct like being dark triad, or chalking up the behavior to hypergamy. Telling yourself this is the red pill, or it was bound to happen given my alpha traits and her lower SMV.

Do not fool yourself, just own how you feel.

WIA

[Tactician]

(10-20-2015 04:36 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

I guess what breaks me down most is the lack of loyalty between women and men.

I think pair-bonding is a wonderful thing, and seeing people throw it away is what saddens me. She married him, yet she did this. What does this say about the intensity of her love for her husband?

I pity women who 'settle' for marriages, but this is because I'm viewing marriage through the eyes of a man. Men lower their standards for quick sex, but not nearly as much for marriage. Woman, on the other hand, settle for safe-but-unexciting marriages all the time.

The guilt you feel isn't really rooted in guilt. It's a feeling of pity or disgust that you're witnessing someone caught in a loveless marriage. She might love the security and status that her husband provides, but she isn't attracted to [i]him[/]. And we, as men, find this especially stinging because we would never want to marry someone we were not in love with.

-
In the end, she's shown that she's willing to throw her marriage away. Maybe now, maybe in a few years. Then after that, she hits the wall and a few years later, when the attention from other men dries up and she realizes what she had discarded, she'll spend her time rationalizing her decisions and maybe end up in another loveless marriage just so that she won't have to feel alone.

She doesn't have any passion for her own love life, and it's hard to respect someone like that. That's what you're disgusted with.

[heavy]

(10-20-2015 04:36 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

I used to have a mentality where I thought, "Better me than someone else."

Nowadays, I find myself disgusted with myself for such thinking. Why? I don't know. I was never raised to feel shame for carnal desires so having it appear now is very strange.

I guess what breaks me down most is the lack of loyalty between women and men. I fault women more being the buyers in this market, but still even as a guy knowing i'd be screwing over another potentially good dude just sinks in my head.

And as for dudes, I seriously question the loyalty and character of most men I see around me. Had a recent experience where this guy talked red pill stuff to me in private and proceeded to suck up to this "independent, strong, liberated" friend of his he hadn't seen in 2 years. They had banged previously but shit this dude went limp dick morals. Kissed her ass and got laid.

Even my "strong, liberated" fuck buddy was well aware of my red pill beliefs and still hooped on. She liked the honesty and hilariously enough is giving her LTR a lot of care and concern. Sure she's a slut, but I can respect a girl who tries.

Rambling about my life aside, my only warning is to be watchful. Your conscience will sneak up on you and saddle yourself with guilt whether you want it or not.

I can sympathize, but the bolded comment reminded me of this gem from the Solomon group blog, now defunct.

"Alan Alpha’s Response: I value a woman who has the strength and sense of self to explore her sexuality. It’s healthy, natural, and normal for a woman to be in tune with her wants, needs and desires. I’d far rather be with a woman who has experienced life to the fullest than some moralistic prude who is bound by the rules of men. A strong woman who isn’t afraid to be herself is sexy and desirable.
...
Alan Alpha has embraced the feminist ideals of promiscuous self exploitation and can now add another notch to his bedpost. As he pulls his dick out of her mouth and squirts his load all over the lips that will one day kiss the first born son of a pathetic Beta"

The post can be summed up in this line about Alan Alpha:
"Notice he doesn’t actually do anything for her; he merely validates her position and reinforces her irrational behavior like an overprotective parent makes excuses for a spoiled child."

I've felt bad before. OKC hookup with a divorcee with two kids. Banged her on meetup #2, never really talked to her again. Yep, felt a little bad...but I'll be damned if she didn't have some great sex.

Actually, I've felt bad with a number of girls...but really, it's wholly dependent on who gets the short end of the stick.
- When I'm interested in something more and she just wants to fuck me a few times, I don't feel bad.
- When I know she's interested in something more and I just want to fuck her a few times, I feel a little bad.

Interestingly enough, I banged a chic a couple months ago who had a boyfriend...didn't feel bad at all. To be fair, I don't think she'd been seeing him that long, and no kids. And the real reason was that she really, really just wanted to fuck. She made it very apparent.

Hypothetically, to clear my conscience and avoid guilt, I just ramp up the beta to where they aren't interested. Sounds a bit disingenuous.

[General Stalin]

Personally, as a guy who has been the "pathetic beta" and been cheated on, I have a deep-rooted disgust for women who want to fuck around on a guy she claims commitment to. The "If I don't bang her then she'll find someone else who will" adage may be accurate, but I'll be fucked if I'm gonna let myself be that guy. I'd much sooner lecture a broad on faithfulness and moral fibre before banging her.

Like Beast1, there have been times in the past where I have thought about it and said "Fuck it, I'm not gonna blue ball myself over some BS moral hangup because a slut wants to be a slut" - but as time has gone on the thought of it grew to disgust me. I put my character before my nut.

[Kwisatz]

Jay-Z agrees.

(10-20-2015 07:31 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Without a doubt you should feel guilty if you actively pursued a taken woman.

You should feel guilty if you bang a chick that's desperate for you to be her boyfriend and is willing to trade her body for it.

You should feel guilty for letting a girl get attached, for stringing her along, for fucking her friends behind her back.

And then you should learn to be an adult and live with negative feelings and deal with the consequences of your actions.

Lots of guys do not want to own their actions because they don't want to deal with their feelings. They would rather rationalize what they do, or retreat into some thought construct like being dark triad, or chalking up the behavior to hypergamy. Telling yourself this is the red pill, or it was bound to happen given my alpha traits and her lower SMV.

Do not fool yourself, just own how you feel.

WIA

[Kieran]

Great post from WIA. Being able to tolerate guilt and other emotional discomfort is an important skill and far healthier than rationalising it away.

My own mentality towards the situation in the OP is that life isn't so serious. She just wants to have some sex and you might as well be the one to have it with her. The worlds a light place so I say just enjoy those opportunities. I've felt guilt over similar situations in the past and would love to think that I'd act with more virtue in the future, but to be realistic I know I'd do the same things again given the opportunity.

[rpg]

The neighbor wifed up a ho. Hoes are gonna ho like a fish is gonna swim. Best thing to do is wear a condom. 100%. Hit it and quit it. Let her know by your actions that her pussy has no magical powers and the best deal going is her man coming home every day to her and the kid.

[Dino]

Why assume she's a hoe. You are going to hear more no's from married women with babies. I doubt you have Dracula like powers over women. Most women will decline your overtures even when you launch your amazing game at them.

Most people have basic morals and limits. Now the other 20-30% or so will drain your nuts while the hubby is out busting ass to earn a living.

[WestIndianArchie]

(10-21-2015 08:02 AM)Dino Wrote:  

Why assume she's a hoe. You are going to hear more no's from married women with babies. I doubt you have Dracula like powers over women. Most women will decline your overtures even when you launch your amazing game at them.

Most people have basic morals and limits. Now the other 20-30% or so will drain your nuts while the hubby is out busting ass to earn a living.

We should talk about MILFs who don't want to fuck.
Child birth can be traumatic as fuck, to the point where you if you read message boards of mothers, a lot of them never want to have sex again. So much shit gets ripped up, so much pain, and all of that associated with the alpha father....

Real rap, there was a time in recent history where you could not be convicted of marital rape. The popular idea is that some poor abused wife had to resist her drunken abusive ogre of a husband who wanted to get his rocks off. That if he only showed up with a bouquet flowers and a drawn bath, she'd get on all 4's. As Lil Kim said, "some bitches be scared of the dick" And they have good reason to.

The idea that sex dries up because the Father is no longer alpha is again some bullshit that you can only get if you ignore other sources. I know dudes with kids that still get some on the side because they remain attractive to women. I know dudes with kids that pull chick precisely because they're good with CHILDREN. This doesn't fit the alpha/beta narrative though.

WIA

[Dino]

(10-21-2015 08:21 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 08:02 AM)Dino Wrote:  

Why assume she's a hoe. You are going to hear more no's from married women with babies. I doubt you have Dracula like powers over women. Most women will decline your overtures even when you launch your amazing game at them.

Most people have basic morals and limits. Now the other 20-30% or so will drain your nuts while the hubby is out busting ass to earn a living.

We should talk about MILFs who don't want to fuck.
Child birth can be traumatic as fuck, to the point where you if you read message boards of mothers, a lot of them never want to have sex again. So much shit gets ripped up, so much pain, and all of that associated with the alpha father....

Real rap, there was a time in recent history where you could not be convicted of marital rape. The popular idea is that some poor abused wife had to resist her drunken abusive ogre of a husband who wanted to get his rocks off. That if he only showed up with a bouquet flowers and a drawn bath, she'd get on all 4's. As Lil Kim said, "some bitches be scared of the dick" And they have good reason to.

The idea that sex dries up because the Father is no longer alpha is again some bullshit that you can only get if you ignore other sources. I know dudes with kids that still get some on the side because they remain attractive to women. I know dudes with kids that pull chick precisely because they're good with CHILDREN. This doesn't fit the alpha/beta narrative though.

WIA

Ok let's.
I have always looked around and wondered what percentage of milfs are getting it at home regularly. I live in a fairly affluent area and it is abundant with hot moms. It's the cream of the crop here and I have always wondered how many are getting fucked well and how many simply are not interested in sex after having babies. What a waste! I am 41, married to a very attractive professional yet feminine wife. We average 6-10 times a week. She is 40 yet looks about 30. There are many of these types of women right here. You drive by them putting their kids on the bus and can't help but wonder how many are fucking around during the day or won't fuck around at all!

[jamaicabound]

(10-20-2015 04:36 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

I used to have a mentality where I thought, "Better me than someone else."

Nowadays, I find myself disgusted with myself for such thinking. Why? I don't know. I was never raised to feel shame for carnal desires so having it appear now is very strange.

I guess what breaks me down most is the lack of loyalty between women and men. I fault women more being the buyers in this market, but still even as a guy knowing i'd be screwing over another potentially good dude just sinks in my head.

And as for dudes, I seriously question the loyalty and character of most men I see around me. Had a recent experience where this guy talked red pill stuff to me in private and proceeded to suck up to this "independent, strong, liberated" friend of his he hadn't seen in 2 years. They had banged previously but shit this dude went limp dick morals. Kissed her ass and got laid.

Even my "strong, liberated" fuck buddy was well aware of my red pill beliefs and still hooped on. She liked the honesty and hilariously enough is giving her LTR a lot of care and concern. Sure she's a slut, but I can respect a girl who tries.

Rambling about my life aside, my only warning is to be watchful. Your conscience will sneak up on you and saddle yourself with guilt whether you want it or not.

Totally agree that "character" is kind of gone these days. Regardless of what standards other people hold themselves to doesn't mean you have to sink to that level just because society says it's acceptable.

I'm not gonna go all white knight adn say I've never fucked a girl with a dude or that I wouldn't but at the same time it's not something I seek out. In terms of this neighbor example, thats just stupid, you don't shit where you live, you don't stir up problems 50 feet from your house regardless of how you feel about smashing taken women.

I remember being at a buddys house hanging out, a couple friends brught some girls from the bar back, one was giving my guy head in the bathroom, later learned she had a husband dying of cancer at home. We never let our buddy live that one down and basically still call him a scumbag for it. Granted the girl is trash but he's not much better.

[TheDuncan]

Godamn jamaicabound.....

That just...wow.

That is the importance of recognizing the hoes and who could actually be a quality woman, its shit like this that makes me trust no one, all young men, please dont rush into kids or marriage, if you rush the chances are high you could end up fucked up, please take your time...

[TheDuncan]

I also want to mention that I did not do this, I was just thinking that when I saw her and thought about the morality of it.

Like someone said I would not intentially game her and try to smash, but if she was throwing IOI and egging me on then fuck it, perhaps that is a cop out, "well if it might as well be me" it doesn't make it right but eh thats life.

[WestIndianArchie]

@Brother Dino

You're probably living the dream.

My sense of the "desperate" housewife is she needs a "safe" environment to express herself. Her counterpart, the working woman has lots of access and exposure, so things can happen.

The cloistered housewife has to make things happen.
Suburban hanky panky is not unheard of, but the likely candidates are neighbors, personal trainers, yoga teachers, etc.

The problem has always been getting her out of the house.

WIA

[Rawmeo]

If the neighbor wifed up a hoe, it's his problem. A real girl who is wife material won't do that. It it ain't you, it will be someone else.
In that case though, I'd let it be someone else.

I like to spin a harem and alternate girls, but I always stick to those guidelines:
- I never touch married girls (just "have a boyfriend" is fine, as it probably ain't serious)
- I don't game a girl if she fucked one of my buddies
- When "selecting" girls, I break them in 2 categories (provided that they pass the boner test): 1) Virgins, for LTR / wife? material. Will get a nice date, and I will postpone the gaming part, as she will be there for the long term. 2) Non virgins, for harem / SNL / gaming material. That simplifies things.
- I don't buy anything to a girl before she put out (I don't want to become that "nice guy") but after some good sex without LMR, she will be able to get meals / etc.

Girls in my harem are like my LTRs, only thing is that they are not alone. They will get good treatment, meals, etc. in exchange for providing good sex and not being a bitch.