[griffinmill]

My logistics are poor at the moment so first date bangs are difficult to achieve unless I book a hotel room in advance, but with the cost involved I want to be sure I'm getting the bang when I book, which is not always a guarantee. So, what I have been doing is screening them on date one, and laying the groundwork.

Unfortunately, a massive problem of late especially with internet chicks is post-first date ghosting. It has never been as bad for me. In the past (say, only two years ago) I could warm a girl up on date one and literally have her contacting me a few days later asking about the next meet. This still occasionally happens.

But, yes - in the past, if my logistics were good, I got the bang on date one.

On the date: some teasing, push/pull, comfort building, spikes, compliance tests, and it usually leads to a heavy make-out. The girls have been reticent about taking it any further that night, and it's a huge gamble to fork out cash that night for a room only to have her disengage. The evidence is below. Two recent examples of excited girls (to prove I'm not overestimating their investment). They're sending pictures of themselves to qualify, there's re-engagement, excitement, etc.




...and a mere 48-72 hours later the lead is dead. There is not a lot of back-and-forth texting on my end after the first date as I like to be a little aloof - and also because I hate texting. Sometimes I wait 12 hours to respond to a text. Is this hurting me?

I have read enough to know that with social media and all the stimuli girls have today that the first date bang must be sought. But what kind of psychology is at play here with these women - for the lead to go dead so quickly?

Some of my blue pill friends do safe provider game - and are always getting second dates, and more. I realise this has been covered on the forum before but I'd like any fresh advice to perhaps help me grasp something I'm just not getting. This is really frustrating me, simply because these girls are so sparkly-eyed on the date, and then are gone like Keyser Soze.

Anybody else experience this, and - is it getting worse?

[kaotic]

Text game isn't bad at all, girls are doing most the talking and questions. You're also taking the time and space to text her back.

Clearly you're doing something right on the date.

Instead of asking are you home safe - tell them to text you when they get home safe. Then reply to them in the afternoon the next day.

If a girl texts me goodnight or nice meeting me, of course I'll reply the next after noon. Just not immediately.

Keep things flirty and funny until then. You might be too aloof, there is such a thing. Maybe don't wait too long to respond, see if that works.

Shitty logistics are definitely killing you right now, especially that last girl. Car bangs and public bangs come to mind. The girls ASD might kick in knowing they'd totally fuck you the second date - the problem is you're giving them time to think and hamster the second date.

That's the beauty of having logistics on lock on a first date, the red head would've been a first night bang for sure.

Also, to play things safe, always censor names of both parties in pics you upload on here.

[robreke]

(10-19-2015 05:01 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Text game isn't bad at all, girls are doing most the talking and questions. You're also taking the time and space to text her back.

Clearly you're doing something right on the date.

Instead of asking are you home safe - tell them to text you when they get home safe. Then reply to them in the afternoon the next day.

If a girl texts me goodnight or nice meeting me, of course I'll reply the next after noon. Just not immediately.

Keep things flirty and funny until then. You might be too aloof, there is such a thing. Maybe don't wait too long to respond, see if that works.

Shitty logistics are definitely killing you right now, especially that last girl. Car bangs and public bangs come to mind. The girls ASD might kick in knowing they'd totally fuck you the second date - the problem is you're giving them time to think and hamster the second date.

That's the beauty of having logistics on lock on a first date, the red head would've been a first night bang for sure.

Also, to play things safe, always censor names of both parties in pics you upload on here.

kaotic,

you post helpful updates in the Player's Lounge, especially recently, about good first dates you've had. It was mentioned by another member that you didn't go for the first date bangs and you explain your reasoning here.

I, like the OP, have had great first dates, sometimes first date bangs, sometimes not but with good, same night feedback, never to see the girl again. It doesn't always happen, thank God, but happens more than I'd like.

I'm curious, do you mostly always have success getting these girls on second dates and beyond? Or do you experience 'ghosting' after good first dates also?

If you do mostly always get second date and beyond, I'd like to know what you may be doing, tactics etc. post date, that some others here, the OP and myself included, could tweak better to increase the probability of seeing the girl again.

[griffinmill]

(10-19-2015 05:01 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Text game isn't bad at all, girls are doing most the talking and questions. You're also taking the time and space to text her back.

Clearly you're doing something right on the date.

Instead of asking are you home safe - tell them to text you when they get home safe. Then reply to them in the afternoon the next day.

If a girl texts me goodnight or nice meeting me, of course I'll reply the next after noon. Just not immediately.

Keep things flirty and funny until then. You might be too aloof, there is such a thing. Maybe don't wait too long to respond, see if that works.

Shitty logistics are definitely killing you right now, especially that last girl. Car bangs and public bangs come to mind. The girls ASD might kick in knowing they'd totally fuck you the second date - the problem is you're giving them time to think and hamster the second date.

That's the beauty of having logistics on lock on a first date, the red head would've been a first night bang for sure.

Also, to play things safe, always censor names of both parties in pics you upload on here.

I realise I have become quite sloppy in not going for the SDL - even if it's in the backseat. I've become lazy; thinking that their investment was so frigging high that I'd risk it for a bed on date two. That risk never pays off, so I'm going to have to correct this mindset.

Yes, aloof might be hurting me, too.

[griffinmill]

Quote:

I, like the OP, have had great first dates, sometimes first date bangs, sometimes not but with good, same night feedback, never to see the girl again. It doesn't always happen, thank God, but happens more than I'd like.

I'm curious, do you mostly always have success getting these girls on second dates and beyond? Or do you experience 'ghosting' after good first dates also?

If you do mostly always get second date and beyond, I'd like to know what you may be doing, tactics etc. post date, that some others here, the OP and myself included, could tweak better to increase the probability of seeing the girl again.

Girls may text me after the first date like the ones above - but some I'm not interested in and don't pursue. When I have had the logistics and have lead, the first date bang has been pretty easy. Second date bangs often impossible now, though have had some luck with them in the past even if there was a heavy makeout at the end.

It's nearly ALWAYS the girls I've really dug, and who seemed to have really dug me back, who have went ghost after a few days of texting if I didn't nail them immediately. I'm thinking, maybe, my problem is I have been overly analytical with the ones I've really liked, and so have been a little more aloof on the text, which is hurting me. I'm usually just very flirty over text and never get logical, but I space the interval between my texts quite carefully.

[darktranquility]

A small point, but something I've noticed myself doing in the past...

You're following that chick's lead in whether to put an "x" after your message. She puts one, you reply with one. She replies without one, you omit it too. I see this as a minor shit-test on her part to test how submissive you are. I think you need to hold frame and lead on this.

[NewMeta]

Coincidence you posted this ive had a couple of instances recently of the same experience. Like the dates go so well there's no way anything could go wrong but somehow over time spent apart it does.

Women unfortunately live in the moment, once you're gone you lose them to an entire world of distraction and you have to navigate your way back in yet again.

Are there other guys? Almost certainly
Did they hit it off with her as much as you did? Probably not if you have game.
Does it matter? No because she's still getting attention which is ultimately all she needs to get her fix of satisfaction.

Thats the way I see it anyway, it's just the times we live in, have to go for broke on the first date now. Which sucks for people like me with shit logistics so that's just not possible like 90% of the time.

[The Black Knight]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Why do you need to book a hotel in advance? Just go on the Hotel Tonight app (or other hotel app) and get anything that is close to you.

2. How old are you and why are your logistics shot? You mentioned that your blue pill buddies are running provider game and getting second dates. Are you targeting younger girls who live at home or have roommates?

If you live in an expensive area for instance, don't have logistics (live at home), and most chicks live at home too (the younger and more in-demand ones usually do), I could see that being a major reason second dates aren't happening.

Simply put: most chicks who live at home want a reliable escape from it. You can't provide that. 3 others guys she went out with this week can. You are cooked at this point. Slut might want your cock but she wants to get the fuck away from dealing with her parents and have a relaxing place to chill and fuck consistently a lot more.

I've dealt with this before. There is no winning this and you will frustrate the hell out of yourself to no end. Even if you find the odd chick who lives at home and has a place you can chill/fuck at, you will run into issues.

Best thing you can do is target older women who have their own logistics until you get your own place again; with the primary focus on doing everything possible to get your own place ASAP (especially so if older).

When you are first getting to know a chick by the way, you should be trying to figure out her logistics early on in the conversation. The age dividing line where people go from home/roommates to independent varies from city to city. In a lot of US cities with above average cost of living, 28-30 seems to be the dividing line. Meaning anything below that is probably a lost cause. It's 2015... a decent looking 23 year old who lives at home has endless options; many who have bankroll and logistics. If you can't get the bang that night, it won't be long (I'm talking less than 72 hours) before some guy with some game and logistics shows up and hence why, she goes radio silent. Online is already a stacked deck as it is and you are playing with a major handicap on top of it. You have to accept this reality and play the game accordingly.

[griffinmill]

(10-20-2015 05:30 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

A couple of thoughts:

1. Why do you need to book a hotel in advance? Just go on the Hotel Tonight app (or other hotel app) and get anything that is close to you.

2. How old are you and why are your logistics shot? You mentioned that your blue pill buddies are running provider game and getting second dates. Are you targeting younger girls who live at home or have roommates?

If you live in an expensive area for instance, don't have logistics (live at home), and most chicks live at home too (the younger and more in-demand ones usually do), I could see that being a major reason second dates aren't happening.

Simply put: most chicks who live at home want a reliable escape from it. You can't provide that. 3 others guys she went out with this week can. You are cooked at this point. Slut might want your cock but she wants to get the fuck away from dealing with her parents and have a relaxing place to chill and fuck consistently a lot more.

I've dealt with this before. There is no winning this and you will frustrate the hell out of yourself to no end. Even if you find the odd chick who lives at home and has a place you can chill/fuck at, you will run into issues.

Best thing you can do is target older women who have their own logistics until you get your own place again; with the primary focus on doing everything possible to get your own place ASAP (especially so if older).

When you are first getting to know a chick by the way, you should be trying to figure out her logistics early on in the conversation. The age dividing line where people go from home/roommates to independent varies from city to city. In a lot of US cities with above average cost of living, 28-30 seems to be the dividing line. Meaning anything below that is probably a lost cause. It's 2015... a decent looking 23 year old who lives at home has endless options; many who have bankroll and logistics. If you can't get the bang that night, it won't be long (I'm talking less than 72 hours) before some guy with some game and logistics shows up and hence why, she goes radio silent. Online is already a stacked deck as it is and you are playing with a major handicap on top of it. You have to accept this reality and play the game accordingly.

I've had a lot of success in the past, even when my logistics were as bad as they are now. I only had to lead, and they followed. Coming out of a cold streak, I'm a little reticent about leading straight to a hotel room. On a date, if things are going well, a little voice tells me to take my time... she's into you... wait for the second date, only to regret that. But yeah - I will take your advice on board and download that app.

I had to give up the apartment I had in a UK city. Even if the girl has her own place, getting back to it on a first date is difficult.

I've never had problems like this before. 1-2 years ago, even if my logistics were bad, I could still see them for a day 2, even if things got really heated on the first date and by rights their ASD should have kicked in. So either my luck is bad at the moment, or the landscape is changing more rapidly than anyone could have guessed.

My friends do safe provider game with online chicks. They get stung sometimes with girls going ghost after 4 or 5 dates, after the bang, but they always get them out for a 2nd date at least.

I think, ultimately, my problem is pushing things too far on the first date, and then not closing, when I should be going for all or nothing.

[Kane12:00]

"I think, ultimately, my problem is pushing things too far on the first date, and then not closing, when I should be going for all or nothing."

My guess is this is your problem- the poor logistics are changing your behavior. These girls are down for same night lay and you aren't giving it to them. You aren't escalating as far as possible because you know the logistics don't work.
Maybe you can find a decent, reliable go-to hotel that has a nice bar. If the date is going well take her to the bar and see if it is worth getting a room.

[Phoenix]

I think the 'sexual tension and escalation' rules should be included in a 'newbie pack', along with other items agreed upon by consensus in this forum.
We get a guy showing up every other week with the "she was really into me and then she went cold on me, btw I made out with her but didn't bang her" speech.

[The Black Knight]

(10-20-2015 06:57 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:30 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

A couple of thoughts:

1. Why do you need to book a hotel in advance? Just go on the Hotel Tonight app (or other hotel app) and get anything that is close to you.

2. How old are you and why are your logistics shot? You mentioned that your blue pill buddies are running provider game and getting second dates. Are you targeting younger girls who live at home or have roommates?

If you live in an expensive area for instance, don't have logistics (live at home), and most chicks live at home too (the younger and more in-demand ones usually do), I could see that being a major reason second dates aren't happening.

Simply put: most chicks who live at home want a reliable escape from it. You can't provide that. 3 others guys she went out with this week can. You are cooked at this point. Slut might want your cock but she wants to get the fuck away from dealing with her parents and have a relaxing place to chill and fuck consistently a lot more.

I've dealt with this before. There is no winning this and you will frustrate the hell out of yourself to no end. Even if you find the odd chick who lives at home and has a place you can chill/fuck at, you will run into issues.

Best thing you can do is target older women who have their own logistics until you get your own place again; with the primary focus on doing everything possible to get your own place ASAP (especially so if older).

When you are first getting to know a chick by the way, you should be trying to figure out her logistics early on in the conversation. The age dividing line where people go from home/roommates to independent varies from city to city. In a lot of US cities with above average cost of living, 28-30 seems to be the dividing line. Meaning anything below that is probably a lost cause. It's 2015... a decent looking 23 year old who lives at home has endless options; many who have bankroll and logistics. If you can't get the bang that night, it won't be long (I'm talking less than 72 hours) before some guy with some game and logistics shows up and hence why, she goes radio silent. Online is already a stacked deck as it is and you are playing with a major handicap on top of it. You have to accept this reality and play the game accordingly.

I've had a lot of success in the past, even when my logistics were as bad as they are now. I only had to lead, and they followed. Coming out of a cold streak, I'm a little reticent about leading straight to a hotel room. On a date, if things are going well, a little voice tells me to take my time... she's into you... wait for the second date, only to regret that. But yeah - I will take your advice on board and download that app.

I had to give up the apartment I had in a UK city. Even if the girl has her own place, getting back to it on a first date is difficult.

I've never had problems like this before. 1-2 years ago, even if my logistics were bad, I could still see them for a day 2, even if things got really heated on the first date and by rights their ASD should have kicked in. So either my luck is bad at the moment, or the landscape is changing more rapidly than anyone could have guessed.

My friends do safe provider game with online chicks. They get stung sometimes with girls going ghost after 4 or 5 dates, after the bang, but they always get them out for a 2nd date at least.

I think, ultimately, my problem is pushing things too far on the first date, and then not closing, when I should be going for all or nothing.

Well I have to speculate given the limited data but its likely a multi-front problem:

1. The general consensus is that online dating has deteriorated over the last 1-2 years. More bullshit, more work, weaker results.

2. The overall general dating market (online and offline) has deteriorated. Worse ratios, increase militant feminism, more thirst, better economy, fatter chicks.

3. You don't mention your age but being even 1-2 years older and not having your own place could put you in a "loser" category. You don't say your age (and that's fine; I don't need to know it) but there is a big difference being 23 living at home vs being 28 living at home in how a lot of women will view you. With the overall economy during a bit better, the competition among men increases. 2 years ago ago in a shittier economy and when you were younger, women might have been a bit more forgiving because a lot of people were in the same position.

4. Why is getting a girl back to her own place if she has logistics difficult? Meet near her place and just lead the interaction that way. 1-2 venue changes, you are 5 minutes away from her place and then say, "Hey lets get a nightcap at your place!" If girls are digging you as much as you say on the first date, this should be easy.

I think it comes down to an overall shittier dating environment than before with in your particular case, a decrease in overall value (since you don't have your own place). Competition is fierce and you are fighting with one hand tied behind your back. Perhaps the attitude is different in the UK but not having your own place in the US is a major cockblock and a lot of women will shut you down because it. I think you are downplaying how important logistics are; especially as a slightly older man in a tough dating environment.

Roommates may be acceptable but living at home/with relatives (you don't say in your case but I'm just speaking in general) instantly puts you in certain category with most women that they associate with negatively. They rarely say it outright but younger women who live at home take note when a guy lives alone or not. Women in general notice but younger women without logistics (and tons of cock options) are FAR more prone to use it against you. I promise you this to be true.

Again, I think your best bet is women with their own logistics (older sluts typically) or lying/omitting about your living situation and finding a plausible way to get them into a hotel room or go for the bang first night wherever possible. Going for the hotel could prove to difficult and expensive, however.

[Chetthebaker]

I'm even having trouble getting girls on a 2nd date after I bang them on the 1st one- and I own a pretty awesome place. I'm mid 30s, and of my last 4 bangs I've had two that I maybe cared to see again.
Learned my lesson several times from squandering bangs to always go for the SNL. I have em meet me in the park near my house, bounce to a bar a few blocks over, one drink and then back to my place chill a bit and then start hooking up. Now that it's getting cold I'm skipping the park. It's a great system and as long as I can get the girl there closing ratio has been very high. Keep in mind though flake rates are literally like %70-80. I may start double booking.

With the few I've wanted to see again, we text for a few days or a week after the date and then I get the slow fade. Bullshit about being out of town, ghosting when I suggest the meetup, flake on day of date. I can pretty much feel the flake coming on in my gut earlier in the day.
It's tough out there. I think it's just a reality that with what the female mind has become dating, especially online, is only good for SNL casual sex. Like Roosh said years ago- "you'll never see her again."

[kaotic]

(10-19-2015 05:10 PM)robreke Wrote:  

I'm curious, do you mostly always have success getting these girls on second dates and beyond? Or do you experience 'ghosting' after good first dates also?

If you do mostly always get second date and beyond, I'd like to know what you may be doing, tactics etc. post date, that some others here, the OP and myself included, could tweak better to increase the probability of seeing the girl again.

I just experienced ghosting this week from the black 7, one great date, make out, our schedules weren't working out and she likes weekends only, she stopped responding.

I remember one recently, she was 18, tight body, a 6 face, we had a great make out she even said "i'll be your tinderella" we texted a few days then she ghosted. Shame, I loved her body.

Some tactics:

-Don't respond the same night or morning.
-Do respond maybe that afternooon evening, maybe the next day.
-Do drop hints you'll be busy as fuck the next day.
-Don't send her a goodnight I had a great date text
-Do have her send you a i got home safe text and don't respond.
-Do keep things light and funny, make sure you do keep a strong connection.
-Don't act super thirsty though, there is a balance.
-Do call her or send her funny pics.

If you know you can't bang the first night (or if you can't bang in the car or somewhere in public):

-Don't constantly make out with her.
-Keep her guessing, maybe don't kiss her till the end of the date.
-Don't makeout with her, keep her guessing.
-Do create some sexual tension, don't be boring.
-You have to lead her with breadcrumbs.

Some girls be a ONS type but if you don't have the logistics, then she's long gone. Woman are already entertaining the idea of fucking you, especially if they're on a date with you.

It's your job to keep her guessing, wanting more, wanting to see you again, and wanting to fuck you.

There is some great advice above, use this knowledge, that hotel app is a solid idea.

[OregonToSoCal]

Kaotic is spot on in his recommendations. I've been doing a lot of thinking back and analyzing the women who I did not bang on the first date but was successful in scheduling a second date and banging. This is by no means scientific and it didn't always work but at least the odds weren't horrible of getting the second date.

It comes down to two scenarios:

A. The first date was short (hour or less) and very casual, usually an afternoon coffee or ice cream date where I did not kiss her at all during the date. There was touching, flirting and light sex talk but no other physical escalation. The second date was then for drinks or sharing an app plate (go team appetizers ). We then went back to my place to "see my photography" and I escalated from there.

B. This scenario is a little more interesting. The first dates were my go to evening drink dates and we kissed during the date while at the bar. On our way back to our cars we would have a nice (but short makeout) and I would pull away, smirk and say "let's have another drink at my place." Almost always the girl would giggle in a flirty and coy way and say something along the lines of "noooo....but maybe next time" and we would part ways. When this happened the odds of getting a second date were at least 50/50 or better. Not great but at least I had a shot.

Here's when the girls would almost always flake on me attempting a second date. We meet at the bar, I run the traditional first date bang recipe, am careful not to kiss her and then weave my bait into the conversation. Later in the date I pull the bait trigger and invite them home and they decline. I figure the first date bang is off the table so I switch gears and at least attempt to set my intentions by going for the kiss at the end of the date. Again, this often times ends up in a nice but short makeout where I pull away first and then tell them good night. A lot of these women I could tell were really into the makeout but I cut it short and in essence teased them and then left them hanging. Those I whiff on 100% of the time for getting a second date.

So, take that very unscientific information for what it is but I'm suspecting there could be something to this. It's something I'm going to really focus on in the future.

[Player_1337]

I've been at odds on this frustrating topic for a while now. After really getting into game and discovering the forum- my most successful strategy has always been escalating the interaction as far as possible on the first meet. This is also congruent and in line with my goal to achieve only sex (a casual, physical relationship) and sex as soon as possible (not wasting my time and setting the frame accordingly). Getting some female companionship used to be a part of this, but not so much anymore since I have a great main. Women seem to have a keen sense of one's energy/vibe- maybe they can detect they'll only be a side piece.

Lately, fast escalation seems to be backfiring (I think their player alarms are going off and/or they know I won't commit to anything, thus they don't want to put out and feel used)- consequently I've tried holding off on making a move (too early of a kiss/make out), and instead implementing some push-pull. Results have still been mixed, but mostly poor- as I feel it left the girls thinking I was afraid to make a move, not really interested or exhibiting incongruence. It all comes down to using your intuition to read her and calibrate accordingly which takes a lot of practice.

The only absolutes I consistently adhere to are remaining confident, fun and non-needy (before, during and after the meet). Apart from that, getting the bang or a second date at this point just feels like a crap shoot.

[AneroidOcean]

(10-19-2015 04:39 PM)griffinmill Wrote:  

There's some good advice in the responses so far so I won't cover those aspects, but I'm very surprised that nobody has pointed out your bad text game. I'm not going to type out all of this to point things out. I'll go from each of your texts in order.

Text 1 - No need to include the "x" this is feminine and falls into her frame.

Text 2 - "But of course." What are you, an English gentleman? Why so proper? Then you followed it up with "100% alive!" which is WAY try-hard on top of using special characters (again, taking more effort than necessary). She didn't ask if you were alive, she asked if you were home safe. A simple "k" or "yep" would suffice.

Text 3 - Why are you hoping she's in bed? Saying "sleep well" is nice without putting energy into thinking about what she's doing and hoping she's in bed. What do you hope she's NOT doing? Going out partying after your date and fucking that dude that doesn't give her the time of day normally? That's what it comes off as to me. Then you end it with "x" so you give her an e-kiss. Do you think men that women want to fuck generally give e-kisses?

Text 4 - You fall into her frame about spooning instead of agreeing and amplifying like "well, more like sporking" or "nah, more r rated." You also use a smiley, ellipses, AND a question mark. This text is really bad. You have EIGHT punctuation/special characters and only six damn words.

Text 5 - This isn't necessarily really bad, but combined with all the rest of your texts adding a smiley is overkill. I also think you would've been much better served by telling her she's a naughty girl and you'll give her a spanking.

Text 6 - And you devolve completely into betadom. Actually, what's below beta? You ask her a question. No, worse. You ask her a rhetorical question that is a complete and absolute loss of frame. Again with the ellipses and punctuation, cut that shit out. Then you absolutely kill any possible moistness in her panties by calling her your very pretty Anastasia and asking her how she's doing. Her reply confirms her rapidly declining interest and shows her dislike that you apparently missed that she touched your leg, like the clueless loser that you're communicating like.

Finally, all your texts are nearly instantaneous replies. You only have one that's spaced out a significant time and one where she texted twice after you didn't respond for a long period of time but I won't give you credit for that long period of time because her last text was just a good night (not something that would normally need a response).

Please analyze your texts more and go into some of the texting threads and read, read, read. The good thing is you have some significant room for improvement and it's not all that hard to improve in this area.

[griffinmill]

Thanks very much for all of the responses here. It's given me some food for thought and I've taken everything on board. I'm going to screen hard before the date, and on the date I'm going to either go hard for the SNL - which is what I have done in the past, logistics be damned, or if I'm feeling it out and realise that's a no-go, I'm going to push back considerably so there's no ASD kicking in when the date is over. I think dating and online dating is a rapidly changing landscape.

It's very unpredictable, though. I was in EE a few weeks back and on one occasion I took this chick to the point of no return but didn't close. She still came around the next night. But, ultimately, it has backfired more often than not.

As for my text-game, you'll notice in that first exchange that I posted, I never responded, and she re-engaged with me the next day... But then I lost her regardless. With this new girl only a few days later I was in panic mode after the date realising that the ASD was no doubt going to kick in with this one too, so my concious decision was to pull back with the aloof/cocky/funny to a degree, especially on that night when she got home. I was trying to build some comfort. Even that comment about missing her - I would never ever say something like that usually, but I was trying to show a bit of sensitivity to ensure she left the fucking house to see me again. Ironically, this may have been what killed it.

You live and learn.

[fucksong]

@Black Knight and kaotic- Thanks guys, you guys dropped some great knowledge that helped me get some peace of mind as I also have temporarily fucked logistics.

@OP - Hey man, I am almost in exactly the same boat as you. For another month, I will not have anywhere to pull so have been contemplating how and when to book a hotel from girls I've daygamed and often instadated. I've lost out on two recent girls were extremely receptive to go back to my place, have drinks, etc but since I didn't have a pad, tried to close either at their place and/or car. This is what I plan on doing. I will try to have a either one to three specific days throughout the month on probably a Saturday in a prime location and will schedule my dates around it. I will try to schedule as many dates around it to maximize my chances of closing. Ib the event I don't get any of them to close, it week still be I a prime location where I can day game and go for a quick SDL. If I may also add some data to this thread, my last bang was from my current gf who I'm in an open relationship with and I ate her out within 30 min of meeting her at a hotel I was staying at. After that day, we banged almost everyday in the backseat of a rental car. Because of the way social media and just technology is these days, I think the key to success is to strike while the iron is hot and having the systems in place to do so. Thus, if you have your own place, you're good. If not, as others have mentioned, learn what their logistics are and if you can pull there, do so. If not, try to have filters of who might be down for Fucking in public. The last girl I hung out with, I had told her a story of how me and my very first gf used to "make love" in a park cuz we didn't have our own place and this girl commented it was like a scene out of a movie (wink wink) so in hindsight I should've pushed for that. Or as I type this post, fuck it, whenever you are, we advanced players need to be ultra sensitive to when a girl is feeling us and just kiss wherever, fuck wherever under the premise of passion and spontaneity. I made out with an ex-gf on a park bench for a few hours years back.

Good luck OP and to everybody else!

[griffinmill]

(10-20-2015 09:59 PM)fucksong Wrote:  

@Black Knight and kaotic- Thanks guys, you guys dropped some great knowledge that helped me get some peace of mind as I also have temporarily fucked logistics.

@OP - Hey man, I am almost in exactly the same boat as you. For another month, I will not have anywhere to pull so have been contemplating how and when to book a hotel from girls I've daygamed and often instadated. I've lost out on two recent girls were extremely receptive to go back to my place, have drinks, etc but since I didn't have a pad, tried to close either at their place and/or car. This is what I plan on doing. I will try to have a either one to three specific days throughout the month on probably a Saturday in a prime location and will schedule my dates around it. I will try to schedule as many dates around it to maximize my chances of closing. Ib the event I don't get any of them to close, it week still be I a prime location where I can day game and go for a quick SDL. If I may also add some data to this thread, my last bang was from my current gf who I'm in an open relationship with and I ate her out within 30 min of meeting her at a hotel I was staying at. After that day, we banged almost everyday in the backseat of a rental car. Because of the way social media and just technology is these days, I think the key to success is to strike while the iron is hot and having the systems in place to do so. Thus, if you have your own place, you're good. If not, as others have mentioned, learn what their logistics are and if you can pull there, do so. If not, try to have filters of who might be down for Fucking in public. The last girl I hung out with, I had told her a story of how me and my very first gf used to "make love" in a park cuz we didn't have our own place and this girl commented it was like a scene out of a movie (wink wink) so in hindsight I should've pushed for that. Or as I type this post, fuck it, whenever you are, we advanced players need to be ultra sensitive to when a girl is feeling us and just kiss wherever, fuck wherever under the premise of passion and spontaneity. I made out with an ex-gf on a park bench for a few hours years back.

Good luck OP and to everybody else!

Hope it starts improving for you! Best of luck. Glad you found some help and support in this thread.

[fucksong]

This past week I went all in on experimenting with the hotel room booking on not just one but two different first dates in two different locations. With the first girl, she had reciprocated on my physicality out of most girls I've met and that's always been a good indicator of bangability in the past. the second girl was someone who I'd flaked on for two weeks straight because i was either broke or had another meetup but she was still responsive. More importantly, she had passed my mini skirt test. Being the assman perv I am, I like to tell girls to wear a mini skirt and heels as I'll be taking them to a place that MAYBE has a dress code. The last two times I've requested this, I got action although in those cases, I had both the physicality and mini skirt filter passed whereas with these girls, only one of the 2 had passed. Here's what happened:

First girl flaked, not just once, but twice (I was able to save the initial miniskirt failed test to reschedule for the next morning but she never answered) BUT what ended up saving the day was it was at least in a prime area which was close to nightlife so I at least had fun that night (no pulls) and the very next day, pulled a girl off daygame back to my place where this chick has 6000 Tinder fans (I don't have any ;( Unfortunately, this was around 11:30 in the morning and my checkout was at 12 so the farthest I got was to drink wine with her and give her a full body massage where at one point I was massaging her snatch

As for second girl, I was also able to pull her back to my hotel room, also gave her a full body massage but at one point where I was massaging up her skirt on her upper thigh, her entire vibe changed and she said let's go eat. Up until that point, she was pretty buzzed, not drunk but like really relaxed and chill. In hindsight, perhaps I should've just kissed her instead of the massage but whatever. What sucked about this location is that after we separated, there wasn't anything else to do in that area PLUS it was a weekday so def nobody else in that area.

Here are my tips if you want to rent out a hotel room in anticipation for bang.

1) Choose a location that is conducive to you meeting other girls either thru daygame and/or near nightlife clubs.

2) Make sure you get there early at checkin. You might as well get your full money's worth. I checked in at 6PM when I could've checked in at 4PM and those two hours were important since it was still sunny at that time and lots of foot traffic.

3) Try to find a place where checkin is pretty early. First place check in was at 4 and the second checkin was at 12 so that's 4 extra hours you could have to go hunting.

4) Rent on a Friday or Saturday so you can take advantage of weekend traffic/nightlife.

5) To the best of your ability, try to gauge how keen the girl is with you. If you sense even a little bit of hesitation, just save your money and keep prospecting. For me, I have my physicality test and mini skirt request compliance test. If a girl won't comply with your demands and isn't even cool with you touching her hand, how can you expect to fuck her. Yeah, you can still work it but if you're gonna be risking $100, you might as well make damn sure you have the best odds possible.

Good luck

[General Stalin]

Man throwing down on a hotel room "just in case" you get laid must become expensive quick. I imagine it would make the frustration of not being able to close so much more bitter.

I failed to close last night with a girl that was cute, tipsy, and kissing me who got cold feet and hard lmr and I am still a little pissed about it and it didn't cost me a dime (and she approached me).

[fucksong]

Yeah no shit. It sucks ass but similar to OP, I've lost out on several bangs with girls who were keen due to not having a convenient pad so wanted to try a workaround plan that had daygaming as a backup since i met my last gf from daygame instabang but these days my balls are as blue as the Smurfs

[General Stalin]

I understand the struggle. Where I live right now has awful logstics (staying with family until after the holidays) bit fortunately I have a recording/art studio that is setup and private that is also downtown so I bring ladies their if I can't go to their place.

[DonnyGately]

I don't think online dating has changed at all over the past two years. Maybe other guys' Game has improved while some players are doing the same old routines. My results from converting from online to offline meetup within 1-2 weeks hasn't changed.

I think this is an excellent topic for discussion - the post-date flake or ghosting.

The calibration has to be different for girls you day or night-gamed and are going for SNL versus girls you've been texting or chatting with and set up an 'official' first date/meetup. The first girls you escalate and sexualize quickly as has been written here several times by people far better at it than me.

The date needs to be analyzed much harder. Is she a Green light or Yellow light? [If she's red light and only turned up due to zero other options she's not gonna go out with you again, it happens to everyone.] You still want to keep things light and flirty and fun, lead the interactions in all cases.

But after you've invested in the beginning of the date, at some point you have to make them invest. Get them talking about themselves, their friends, hopes, dreams, fantasies - not just sexual. With a DTF girl, she'll be responding to the kino and conversation appropriately. She should know your are the prize by now and be touching you as much as you are her. Once you start making out with her, she's probably ready to go back to your place and you'll get the bang. But if you don't go sexual after getting signals all night, she's gonna think you're beta or she blew the date and is likely to flake on you next time.

With her investing in you and getting the bang or a bj back at your place, the odds of her ghosting go way down. Don't be too aloof. Don't text her back that nite - tell her to text you when she gets home - but reply the next if she texts you about what a good time she had. If she writes me a long text after she gets home, I'll send her a reply around 2-4pm so she's not waiting all day and thinking she got played.

For a yellow light girl, who maybe wants to get sexual with you, incorporate much more push-pulling. If you escalate too quickly and she doesn't respond take it slower. Again, you HAVE to make her invest. If she just sits there listening the whole time things are going wrong. Continue to calibrate the IOIs you're getting or not getting, amp up the flirting. Just because you're having a good laugh over drinks doesn't mean she's gonna want to bang you or even see you again. At this point you have to be a little aloof and mysterious before you end the date. Assuming you got her to invest, she'll keep investing at this point. If you can't get her back to your place that evening, end with deep kissing and some kino and tell her you have to go. Now her hamster will be spinning when she gets home and the following day.

But everybody gets flaked on even from girls we banged. Maybe they slept with us too soon and feel like a slut. Or you were too aloof and she thinks you're a player or an asshole now. Or your communications after were too beta. Or she realizes you don't want what she wants She meets a guy who is more Alpha - there's any number of reasons. It doesn't mean you screwed up. That's why you need multiple plates.