[TheWastelander]

The fact of the matter is that most of the whiners would've been shitting themselves and begging for those evil white men they hate to save them had they lived on the American frontier. A lot of the Indians made ISIS look like pikers by comparison. If you're interested in the subject of the Indian Wars you should pick up Scalp Dance: Indian Warfare on the High Plains, 1865 - 1879 for a more balanced view.

[crazyfingers]

For me what Columbus achieved is simply not worthy of celebration. I don't care about Indians or about this being an official holiday, I simply find his accomplishments uninspiring. Many native tribes were very violent and constantly at war with one another as was mentioned, but how you get from that to considering what amounted to their genocide as being in some way heroic confuses me.

[The Beast1]

(10-12-2015 12:55 PM)crazyfingers Wrote:  

For me what Columbus achieved is simply not worthy of celebration. I don't care about Indians or about this being an official holiday, I simply find his accomplishments uninspiring. Many native tribes were very violent and constantly at war with one another as was mentioned, but how you get from that to considering what amounted to their genocide as being in some way heroic confuses me.

Do you feel the same way about Thanksgiving as well?

Seeing as both adventures had people stuffed in a tiny boat with poor provisions traveling at best 5-8 knots for a few miles at a time. Oh darn, wind isn't blowing today. Looks like the ship isn't moving.

[shameus_o'reaaly]

Not American, but I still think it should be called Vespucci Day. Anyway, the Vikings made one of the first journeys there, via Iceland, Greenland and Newfoundland, but who stops to dwell on that?
Perhaps someone should draw an unfavourable comparison between Columbus, who came to America and brought diseases, conflict and exploitation, and those who today arrive bringing...well, you get the idea.

[Akwesi]

Columbus is an interesting figure. He never accepted the fact that he had found a new continent, showing the degree to which Europeans of that time still relied on established authorities and what they thought they knew about the world. At the same time, his discoveries (along with the scientific revolution, print culture, and new ways of studying authoritative texts) enabled or forced Europeans to start thinking differently - to rely on critical, rational thought and science and thus begin to create the modern world. Columbus himself was not really of the modern world, toward the end of his life he walked around in the habit of a Franciscan friar despite being very wealthy, and died unhappy, feeling that he had not been properly recognized for his achievements. It is a paradox that this man was so alpha that he could obtain financing from monarchs and lead other men in an incredibly daring venture, yet always remained a needy bitch when it came to seeking the approval of his social superiors.
While his discoveries and conquests had tremendous influence on European history and greatly assisted the ascendancy of the West over the following centuries, his adventures certainly also had extremely detrimental effects on the Indians. Some of the effects were intentional, but the most important one by far - mass death - was an unintended consequence and not properly understood until centuries later. The death of most of the Indians in the wake of European conquest was, for the most part, not the result of genocide but simply caused by the spread of diseases to which the Indians had no immunity. For this reason the coming of Columbus led to one of the greatest demographic disasters in world history, but it seems unfair to say that it was somehow his fault. The mass death of Indians also helped spur the transatlantic slave trade because of the consequent labor shortage.
The balance sheet, then, is a complicated matter, with both great contributions to the growth of civilization and the death of tens of millions of people being results, both largely unintended, of the coming of Columbus. I think it is a little odd, really, to be either all positive or all negative about his legacy. It is more natural to look at it and feel a sense of ambivalence and a certain awe for history and the randomness of it all.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Quote:

Not American, but I still think it should be called Vespucci Day

[WalterBlack]

(10-12-2015 12:55 PM)crazyfingers Wrote:  

For me what Columbus achieved is simply not worthy of celebration. I don't care about Indians or about this being an official holiday, I simply find his accomplishments uninspiring. Many native tribes were very violent and constantly at war with one another as was mentioned, but how you get from that to considering what amounted to their genocide as being in some way heroic confuses me.

The fact that he reached the Americas changed the course of world history. That's a big fucking deal in my book.

Columbus did some bad shit but what he did was par for the course in those days. People we celebrate like Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar did lots of bad stuff too...

[kosko]

The Columbus story has morphed into almost Disney type tales. The dude was a crook and much of his narrative we celebrate has way too many holes .I don't give a fuck about Buzzfeed drooling pink hair types who try and remind me to hate on a guy when they have likely never met a real Native American in thier lives.

For me who grew up with many Native people I've learned enough of thier side of history to know when and when not to sympathize with them.

Fuck holidays to recognize phony men. The father of a nation or movement is one thing, but for some guy who maybe got his ship lost and found Hati or some shit whatever. Much rather have a day for aam who made a ground breaking discovering in space or science, stuff that transcends us as humans, and not a day to prop up a crook.

Enjoy the day off though..

[zaqan]

Its all typical white guilt bullshit perpetuated by the Marxists who run academia and the media. It gets even more tragic when you see libertarians and normal people post the same memes. What none of them ever seem to accept or understand is that they literally would not be alive today if Columbus did not DISCOVER America and if the aboriginal peoples did not massively die off of disease (not genocide). Not to mention, who really cares that a bunch of backwards savages who regularly killed each other died en masse. That is how nature works. Things are not meant to be a zoo where all sorts of exotic tribes are to be displayed. That is the real racism.

So I always find myself celebrating Columbus Day and arguing with idiots on Facebook. I am so sick of this white guilt crap, and I am Ashkenazi Jewish, you know the evil controlling group that is trying to corrupt Western civilization according to half the alt-right. Its not a Jewish thing, its a high IQ thing, which is what makes no sense. Hyperintelligent people have an extreme moral compass that corrupts healthy society.

/rant

Thanks, Columbus. We owe it to you.

[Truth Teller]

People seem to have some belief that the Indians were peaceful and harmonious until the "evil Europeans" came. Many Indian tribes were unbelievably brutal to their enemies, in some cases (Aztecs) sacrificing their enemies and butchering them wholesale.

On another note, Columbus has some of the biggest myths in history associated with him.

[Dr. Howard]

(10-12-2015 12:17 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

The fact of the matter is that most of the whiners would've been shitting themselves and begging for those evil white men they hate to save them had they lived on the American frontier. A lot of the Indians made ISIS look like pikers by comparison. If you're interested in the subject of the Indian Wars you should pick up Scalp Dance: Indian Warfare on the High Plains, 1865 - 1879 for a more balanced view.

Even in Canadian history, the Cree aligned themselves with the English and the Huron the French because they were enemies already.

Here in appalachia, the cherokee fought the chickasaw and shawnee for territory and further north the Iroquois kicked everyone's ass around the great lakes/piedmont.

People forget that war existed before white people, and well beyond the boundaries of Europe. SJWs want us to think that ancient people were like pre historic hippies.

[kaotic]

You can't change the fucking past man. It's that simple. (Well you can rewrite it to fit your narrative of course).

He did some good, and some bad, he's not some saint.

[TonySandos]

(10-12-2015 07:31 AM)Tokyo Joe Wrote:  

2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb7BIaaxGAU

The surname on my Italian side is Calabrese. That's as Sicilian as sliced bread is American. As far as I know, that side of my family hails from eastern Sicily. When my great grandfather arrived, he swiftly acquired multiple jobs regardless of any discrimination he faced. I was told he sometimes took out his frustrations with the world on his family. My grandfather retold his life with those resentments in mind, but maintained a similar success in careers as his father did. In one instance I know of, my grandfather held five jobs at once. I'm witness to him being discriminated against, but these setbacks never deterred him.

Columbus doesn't mean much to me. It's fond to see statues of him among other popular Italian-American icons. Regardless of the man's character or achievements, it's a moot point in relation to the potential controversy surrounding most American holidays. No American holiday could stand in a trial based on popularity or righteousness, not even MLK day. I take the backlash against Columbus day as a cultural affront intended to make us more susceptible to the borg-like Marxist assimilation by white-shaming us like mainstream WASP culture. it's a shame that anglo-americana is under siege by the cultural relativists, but I won't go with quiet acceptance down the same road. Tony soprano is right; the most distinct traits of healthy cultures around today are backbone and work ethic. I'd take the welfare handouts. Doing so dictates your people have to always fall under a narrative of weakness, servitude and complacency. The characteristics and unique aspect of your culture face destruction anyway.

I'm surprised no one mentioned that Columbus was ethnically Irish in light of all the nationalistic discussion surrounding him.

[DarkTriad]

(10-12-2015 12:55 PM)crazyfingers Wrote:  

For me what Columbus achieved is simply not worthy of celebration. I don't care about Indians or about this being an official holiday, I simply find his accomplishments uninspiring. Many native tribes were very violent and constantly at war with one another as was mentioned, but how you get from that to considering what amounted to their genocide as being in some way heroic confuses me.

I think it's the Explorer stuff being lauded, not the genocide. If he had invaded some well known island off the coast of Portugal and enslaved/genocided the natives, I doubt we we would be celebrating his birthday. He would have just been another brutal conqueror in an era full of them.

[Drazen]

I don't care because they don't give me the day off work.

If they forced everyone to take a day off for Indigenous Persons day, then I'm all for it, well as far as it being a day off work. But I'm not dwelling about shit that happened 600 years ago in a different culture, different time. Everyone in the past can be portrayed as a murderous scumbag, its all a matter of frame of reference.

[blacknwhitespade]

Columbus in and of himself is an awesome, innovative, and inspiring figure. His influence? I have mostly positive mixed feelings. Columbus' discovery of America was the top event of the Age of Exploration, the Europeans conquering and taming the rest of the world, leading on to where we are today, and the story continues on... The good news is that Spain, Portugal, England, France, and Netherlands defeated some very savage civilizations and brought Christianity to these areas. Spain was particularly impacting with their preference for direct conquest, Christianization, leading even to intermingling to create a new race of people. The Spaniards were a machine, and were successful to a long extent in integrating their colonies, hispanicizing, Christianizing, creating stable, safe communities with strong families and solidarity between neighbors. The sad news is that Spain squandered away much of that wealth on unsinkable armadas, religious wars, castles of gold, and other excesses. Spain lost ground over the years as the other European superpowers powered past them. As she turned to protect her own native land, Spain gradually lost control over all those colonies, one by one, leaving behind a poor continent to rot with poverty, crime, and racism. They left a job unfinished.

It's upsetting that many Latin American nations to this day are very classist/racist. Even in relatively prosperous countries like Mexico, many mestizo/indigenous-looking women struggle with self-esteem, white worship, etc. Latin media sources still put out "white is beautiful" messages, which is disappointing considering that imo there are many beautiful mestizo and indigenous people, and their cultural contributions are invaluable. Many Latin governments are still rife with corruption, the wealth is very concentrated, and crime is still a real thing in many areas. The story continues... the job is not finished yet.

[Lucky]

I'm taking a class on Western history and what led Europe to dominate the globe. The short answer is that geography (terrain dividing European states), decentralization (European states constantly at war with one another), and rapid adoption of new technologies (or else they'd be conquered) all played a role.

The European powers weren't suddenly handed immense wealth, advanced technology, and disciplined militaries. It was a painful, gradual process of development that led to the Age of Exploration and Columbus's journey.

One thing I know for sure is that if any other group of people developed the means first, they would have just as easily gone to Europe and done the same shit.

[Eskhander]

Good day for trolling:

[Hannibal]

Another day of revisionist history in the lives of people who literally have nothing better to do with their time.

George Orwell Wrote:

People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

These delusional faggots would do better to glorify violent men who make their mediocre lives possible. It's the only reason why they can afford to spend so much time bitching on the Internet and why they have food in their fridges or why they have fridges at all.

A bunch of do-nothing, know-nothing degenerate scumbags made Indigenous Peoples day possible.

[Eskhander]

^ That's why Gladiator games were a pretty good idea. It was to remind the Roman people that their lives were only possible by blood.

[Steve_Jay]

Our society has adopted the mindset of beta losers, it is no wonder we worship savages who killed each other off and couldn't come up with basic tools of civilization like written language and the wheel. We do this instead of honoring brave alphas like Columbus who discovered the Americas for Europeans and set the foundation for civilization on the American continent. It's disgusting and an inversion of nature, and the opposite of the Faustian spirit of Western man that helped bring up the entire world to some basic level of civilization. We are consumed with this guilt, and it is leading to the decline of Western Civilization. This guilt comes to mind with the migrant crisis in Europe and literally engaging in national suicide like Germany and Sweden are at the moment.

If any White person, or anyone who isn't an American Indian doesn't like Columbus, they are free to leave the US at anytime. They should put their money where their mouth is and stop bitching about what Columbus did to secure an existence for our people here.

[Steve_Jay]

(10-12-2015 12:55 PM)crazyfingers Wrote:  

For me what Columbus achieved is simply not worthy of celebration. I don't care about Indians or about this being an official holiday, I simply find his accomplishments uninspiring. Many native tribes were very violent and constantly at war with one another as was mentioned, but how you get from that to considering what amounted to their genocide as being in some way heroic confuses me.

There was no "genocide". 90% of American Indians died of disease, this is an established fact. Quite frankly throwing around words like genocide cheapens real genocides like the Armenian Genocide, Holodomor, Holocaust etc.

[Quintus Curtius]

(10-12-2015 02:09 PM)Akwesi Wrote:  

Columbus is an interesting figure. He never accepted the fact that he had found a new continent, showing the degree to which Europeans of that time still relied on established authorities and what they thought they knew about the world. At the same time, his discoveries (along with the scientific revolution, print culture, and new ways of studying authoritative texts) enabled or forced Europeans to start thinking differently - to rely on critical, rational thought and science and thus begin to create the modern world. Columbus himself was not really of the modern world, toward the end of his life he walked around in the habit of a Franciscan friar despite being very wealthy, and died unhappy, feeling that he had not been properly recognized for his achievements. It is a paradox that this man was so alpha that he could obtain financing from monarchs and lead other men in an incredibly daring venture, yet always remained a needy bitch when it came to seeking the approval of his social superiors.
While his discoveries and conquests had tremendous influence on European history and greatly assisted the ascendancy of the West over the following centuries, his adventures certainly also had extremely detrimental effects on the Indians. Some of the effects were intentional, but the most important one by far - mass death - was an unintended consequence and not properly understood until centuries later. The death of most of the Indians in the wake of European conquest was, for the most part, not the result of genocide but simply caused by the spread of diseases to which the Indians had no immunity. For this reason the coming of Columbus led to one of the greatest demographic disasters in world history, but it seems unfair to say that it was somehow his fault. The mass death of Indians also helped spur the transatlantic slave trade because of the consequent labor shortage.
The balance sheet, then, is a complicated matter, with both great contributions to the growth of civilization and the death of tens of millions of people being results, both largely unintended, of the coming of Columbus. I think it is a little odd, really, to be either all positive or all negative about his legacy. It is more natural to look at it and feel a sense of ambivalence and a certain awe for history and the randomness of it all.

This is a great comment. +1 from me.

One of the the things I've learned recently about Columbus is just how incredibly important it was, not just historically, but biologically to the earth.

Whether it was "good" or "bad" is a moral judgment that we will never be able to resolve. It had both good and bad features, but it happened, and that is how life works.

What is more interesting is to learn how incredibly important the "Columbian Exchange" was.

The European discovery of the new continent ushered in an entire new age in the biological history of this planet. For the first time, different species of plants, animals were able to spread over the whole Earth.

Diseases, foods, medicines, cultures, and a thousand other things were diffused over the entire world.

Biologists have used the term "Columbian Exchange" to explain this process. Google this term. You'll be impressed by what you find.

[Steve_Jay]

(10-12-2015 02:45 PM)kosko Wrote:  

The Columbus story has morphed into almost Disney type tales. The dude was a crook and much of his narrative we celebrate has way too many holes .I don't give a fuck about Buzzfeed drooling pink hair types who try and remind me to hate on a guy when they have likely never met a real Native American in thier lives.

For me who grew up with many Native people I've learned enough of thier side of history to know when and when not to sympathize with them.

Fuck holidays to recognize phony men. The father of a nation or movement is one thing, but for some guy who maybe got his ship lost and found Hati or some shit whatever. Much rather have a day for aam who made a ground breaking discovering in space or science, stuff that transcends us as humans, and not a day to prop up a crook.

Enjoy the day off though..

"Natives" can go cry about it. But history doesn't have time for whiners, quite frankly. They lost because they sucked.

[Eskhander]

From what I gather, Columbus was kind of sociopathic and did exploit the welcoming nature of the Taino. To the point where they starved themselves.

Unless of course this is another lie. It would be a very egregious one because they claim to be quoting his own journals.

It is weird to believe such a supplicating people could exist. Even modern Europeans at least gain social cred for pretending to love invaders.