[TripleG]

Hi Guys,

I returned recently from Minsk and Moscow, mostly for tourism but some gaming as well. I figured I will post this question in the newbie forum as it does not fully deal with travel but deals with amateur game. To be honest I am ashamed of my lack of success in this case that I thought I'd report it to this manosphere forum.
Perhaps, other forum guys have had similar experiences to me while traveling abroad, where they had time with a girl and couldn't succeed have gone through this and if they can report if this is/is not so unusual with Russian girls?

I just came back to the states and would like to dump a bit of my emotions here.
(Btw, before anyone calls me beta or says that I should have escalated non-stop with this girl please mind that i am a bit paranoid about doing this in other countries and also that I am a nice, mellow guy not know for being aggressive)

So, during my 1 week stay in Moscow I went out for 3 days to different bars&clubs and got a bunch of numbers and did well infiltrating social circles of both women and men. Met a few local russian guys with whom I partied and they introduced me to their female friends. Had 2 cougars at a night club invite me
for the weekend to their dacha but did not follow-up. Also, never was really shot down in Russia by any sets that I approached. However after 3 straight days of night gaming I got too tired so then took things easy, sat on my bed, sent a few messages and met a girl online. Next day met her on the red square for a tour. This girl whose about a 7.5 (by extremely high Russian standards). She's taller than me (when wearing heels), is a former ballroom champion dancer (no joke),
has been offered modeling jobs, college educated, athletic as heck, and on paper looks like great GF material. Similar looks to young Demi Moore.
If she fixed her teeth and stopped smoking she could be an 8.5. I'm 36, she is 27 so the age difference is perfect and I stopped my night game in Moscow
as soon as I met her. I had been looking for an overseas STR.

We had 4 dates together...all of them lasting at least several hours and the last 2 ending at my place. She was kind enough to show me many sights in the city.
We were walking hand-in-hand almost immediately from the start of the first date and kissed within an hour. From their though it got a bit weird.
While on continuous dates she showed few signs of affection in public and I had to initiate every move. She wouldn't even actively hold
my hand unless I took the lead. I'm used to dating girls who at least do some stuff, such as stroking my hair while in public, kissing spontaneously,
stroking my cheek, etc.
However I was initiating continuously and also when walking/talking she was rarely looking at me but frequently straight ahead.
So, other than kissing and holding hands I was constantly feeling some distance from her and sometimes had to try hard to get her to carry a conversation and smile
(btw, I speak semi-fluent Russian so language was not supposed to be a barrier). She seemed closed off as if she was keeping some secrets from me.

I took her back to my place on 3rd date, no resistance but after a make-out and "petting session" she asked me for a blanket and crashed on the couch. TV was on and she was watching some
Eurovision final. Hard as I tried
I couldn't get her to my bed. I didn't really care about getting laid at this point but after 3 nights with someone and her showing me all over the city
the least she'd do is just lay down in my bed to rest and play "doctor"
She said that she was a good girl and tired. I got pissed, turned
off the tv (which she was keenly watching), stripped to my undies and went to bed alone while she was on the coach. I thought that she'd get the hint and maybe
stumble to me at night but that was not the case.

Fast forward to "date 4" next evening. She never left my place so as soon as I woke up I took her with me so she could watch me compete in a semi-pro Tennis tournament and be my private photographer
Her time investment in me at this point is approaching almost a full time job. Over these 4 days I bought her a couple drinks, a dinner and tour tickets (money investment in her is moderate). Get her back to my place again without any problems. She immediately asks me to show the bathroom and take a shower (I am thinking I got this in the bag).
She takes like 30 minutes in the bathroom while I'm drinking alone and watching tv. She emerges from the bathroom all showered but in full clothes again. The only
thing she removed after the shower was her high heels. She sits down next to me and I pour her a Jim Bean and Coke. She doesn't mind the drink but sits on edge of coach and refuses to uncross her arms or legs. I get on top of her and try to escalate ever so slightly. Kissing her lips, her neck, stroking the thighs and arms with my arm.
She is completely unemotional. When I try to french kiss her she barely opens her lips. Perhaps my technique is off because i've had a bit to drink
but alas at least she could smile and look in my eyes once in a while. She barely does any of that. We have ackward moments of silence so I proceed to put on youtube and play some of my "favorite" songs which include quite a few love songs. She looks bored at the laptop and keeps her pose, arms completely crossed.
I ask her then what song she likes and she tells me she likes "Hess is More - Yes Boss"

I think this is as strong a clue as any that she wants to go further as the whole song is about a guy seducing a girl. I think of going caveman for a second but my arms don't move.
So I make all types of remarks about her body, how I want to feel it, and keep massaging her. However nothing really works. I escalate and get on top and sloppily kiss. I'm getting some thoughs of performance anxiety even though
she keeps most clothes on
She stops me and crosses her legs & arms and she says that she doesn't do that. Finally, after resistance I give up as I need at least 3 hours of sleep before my
international flight and just go to bed alone while she sleeps on the coach again. I don't have the guts to kick her out and honestly don't want any drama this late in my journey so I toss and turn and barely sleep.

We kiss as I get the taxi to the airport and she leaves me with a bunch of pics of her and tells me to visit her in Moscow soon. I say ok and just leave. One of the last conversations I had with her she said I was a nice, average guy. Ouch, that hurts a bit.
She mentioned that she had a boyfriend when she was 18 who still keeps contacting her from time to time, I kind of get the feeling she might have had just that 1 boyfriend in her life. I wonder if I had been more aggressive on first date and tried more physical instead of verbal communication if I had gotten her more turned on for the following dates instead of just trying to impress her with my Russian skills and intellect. Maybe I should have done more exciting dates with her, such as carnival games or going out of the city to some lake.
I have no clue as the signals were so mixed. I've never worked this much in my life and with so little to show for it

What do you guys think?

[reco2100]

Sounds to me like she was basically asking you to go caveman on her. She probably wants to be led forcefully. If she was still there she was Interested.

Russian men are real cavemen she most likely wants more of that. Also the song talks about tellin her what to do. I have had much sucess telling women to do things especially sexually.

Also your short stay I am sure does not help.

[chochemonger1]

Triple G, I would say the main factor was that she knew you were leaving in a few days. I just arrived to Kiev and 80 percent of the girls I have pipelined, ask about how long I am staying. I would never have come here, if I did not have at least a month to figure things out.

[Brodiaga]

You could have pushed it harder and go caveman. Maybe you would have gotten the bang that way, maybe not. Generally, I don't go on so many dates unless the girl puts out or at least gives a bj. I don't care if she's from Russia or Zimbabwe, no timewasters for me. I'd rather stay home and read a book than waste my time on pointless dates.

[WashedUPVet]

I don't think there is much to breakdown here. It sounds like you met a nice girl who was afraid of developing an emotional connection. I think all out caveman on night one at your place would have worked. At least you would have had your answer and this post would not exist. Caveman gives her an out as she would have been seduced instead of leading you, which she might think herself slutty. The most important thing I have learned here on this forum: "If she is still there, she is interested." Secondly, it sounds like your confidence worked against you and your motivation was low.

It is too bad you did not get the bang. In my small sample size experience with slavic women, once you get the bang the Russian ice melts away and a new woman full of warmth emerges.

[TripleG]

Thanks for advice guys but I honestly don't see how I could have brought her back to my place on 1st date. That is territory of more experienced gamers who don't give a fuck about relationships and that's just not me. 3rd date I brought her back but I almost feel like if the women is resisting all advances and not even trying reciprocate (for example pulling away during french kissing) that something is not right and going caveman would just make her run out of the place.

[Brodiaga]

(05-25-2015 05:18 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

Thanks for advice guys but I honestly don't see how I could have brought her back to my place on 1st date. That is territory of more experienced gamers who don't give a fuck about relationships and that's just not me. 3rd date I brought her back but I almost feel like if the women is resisting all advances and not even trying reciprocate (for example pulling away during french kissing) that something is not right and going caveman would just make her run out of the place.

That is exactly what you want, to polarize them. Escalate until they either bang or leave.

[WashedUPVet]

(05-25-2015 05:25 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(05-25-2015 05:18 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

Thanks for advice guys but I honestly don't see how I could have brought her back to my place on 1st date. That is territory of more experienced gamers who don't give a fuck about relationships and that's just not me. 3rd date I brought her back but I almost feel like if the women is resisting all advances and not even trying reciprocate (for example pulling away during french kissing) that something is not right and going caveman would just make her run out of the place.

That is exactly what you want, to polarize them. Escalate until they either bang or leave.

I was saying 1st night at your place, 3rd date go caveman. Not the first date. @Brodiaga was spot on.

[ohionukes]

I find this post interesting. I have found Russian and Ukrainian women to be very cold and hard. I have not figured them out. On one occasion, I called out a Ukrainian woman for not kissing me at the end of the date and she told me if I wanted to kiss her, I should have been much more forceful (i.e. caveman). When I told her I wasn't going to ask her out again because she showed me no interest, no offered to drive back and meet me again that same night to prove she was. I was sort of pissed at that point and told her I didn't want to see her. I am definitely thinking they are not worth the time and hassle.

[Rawmeo]

Go caveman. Losing a bang is when the girl throws intensive LMR, but she was probably just waiting for you to make the move.

[XXL]

Lack of understanding of what they respond to. And what they respond to is "you're mine" semi possessive attitude very common for how their BFs treat them.

[DaveR]

(05-25-2015 04:02 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

What do you guys think?

She's probably married. It often happens when they get married young... boredom sets in 5-10 years later, then they start checking their options whenever the husband is away.

[TripleG]

Since Ohionukes and DaveR re-opened this story I may add some more to it. I am 99% sure she was not married as I even had a chance to see her 1 room apartment which she shared with a girlfriend. Unfortunately since i've spent most of my time in the west (which is controlled by feminists) thoughts of "rape" kept going though my mind when I was with this girl in my apt. in Moscow and escalating as she crossed her arms and said no....also the whole "morality" is it right or wrong thoughts kept playing in my head and I got confused...
Fast forward a week later and I was in an airport of another EE city. She sent me a link to a photo sharing site where I was able to open and check out some of the photo's she took of us. All fine and nice. I started to feel sad as I knew that I may not get a chick this hot in my city anytime soon and may never see her again (though we still chat occasionally on Skype). Being an IT guy that I am I did some SQL injection and sure enough running a slightly different query I was able to open another "hidden" folder on that site where "lo and behold" I saw naked pictures of her, some explicit. The photo's were taken about a year before we met and labeled "For you". Obviously she had ridden the "cock carousel"...or perhaps she knew that I may be able to hack those folders and wanted to test me (she knew I had an IT background).

Anyways, this just proves a point that even if these FSU girls act cold and uninterested, doesn't really mean they are that way...most have some
"dirty secrets" from their past and it can take a while to expose them; if they spend significant time with you there is something they must like about you and it is worth going caveman. As long as you keep escalating it should be fair game. If she meekly keeps saying no but does not budge from your place I think she may be just testing.

[ohionukes]

Well - strike 2 for the beta move tonight I guess.

Soooo - I am in Moscow and have a date with an architect. 33, older than I usually date, but a size zero and a pretty face - I give her a 7, although probably a 7.5 naked. She meets me at Gorky Park and suggests a walk. Ok - this won't cost me any money, so what the heck (my usual MO is get them drunk and see how they respond to various stimuli and questions - the poor man's psych test. I am sort of looking for a LTR, but if they are not marriage material, I am not opposed to a pump and dump. But I find that a lot of Russian bitches can really hold their alcohol, so I am thinking outside the box).

We walk for over an hour. Her english is quite good, she is smart, and we have decent rapport. One thing I have found in my Moscow dating, that it is good to throw some negs at the girls once in a while. I guess the bitches like to be put in their place and their interest levels will increase afterwards. Anyways, she starts telling me about her friends who have met foreigners online and married them, so I start pumping her for all the intel I can get (e.g., web sites, motivations, etc - anything I might use).

Ok - to the point. At the end of the date, I walk her to the Metro. There are a thousand people around. I start to approach for good night hug/kiss, and she sticks out her mother fucking hand! I shake her hand, at which time she tells me to text her. WTF!

I pop into a nearby BK for a flame broiled slice of Americano, and she is texting me. Great time, great conversation, yadda yadda. Maybe because I am an older (over 40) man of means whose last american gf was 19, but I dont have time for this shit. So I tell her (which is true) - I never ask a girl out for a second date who does not kiss me on the first date. I think she was a bit surprised, and went on about how she wanted to kissed me, has been single for a long time, been hurt before (great - she has baggage). Apparently, in front of the metro, as others have correctly stated, I should have gone caveman, grabbed her, and had my way. I admit, losing the old beta habits is hard, but I am trying. It is easier when I am drunk and dont really give a shit. She wants to see me tomorrow "to correct how our date ended". I have never gone full throttle caveman, but wish me luck. Either we have sex before midnight, or she gets her walking papers and I go clubbing.

[Rocha]

(10-01-2015 06:34 PM)ohionukes Wrote:  

Apparently, in front of the metro, as others have correctly stated, I should have gone caveman, grabbed her, and had my way. I admit, losing the old beta habits is hard, but I am trying.

What was the point of grabbing her in front of the metro and force a kiss? She was already on her way, and an hipothetical long passionate kiss, followed by her going home with you for an amazing bang only happens in hollywood or in porn... you had all the time before that to figure things out. It only would show real thirst, and probably creep her.
Better survive and live another day. You did the right thing.

[JohnDGregory]

(05-25-2015 05:25 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

Escalate until they either bang or leave.

Exactly, bang or "до свидания". Specially if your time is limited here: The next one is just waiting. This city has thousands of women just waiting for a guy. If you have kicked her in the second night, you could save time, money and psychological energy (game) for the next one who, maybe , would be much more open than she was.
But I also understand your fear of losing her completely after developing a good connection.