[balmainjeans]

I posted this in the main thread but it got buried. I've been following threads here on the topic and have read some media reports, but I still have several questions regarding the migrant situation Hungary is facing. I'm hoping someone knowledgeable here can help me understand it more completely, specifically the train situation where there was a standoff between police and "refugees" who were refusing food/water:

1) Where are these people entering Hungary from? Is it Serbia? Are they all coming directly from Syria by land, by sea? Were they living/safe in Turkey and then decided to take a crack at entering the EU? Who is paying for their transportation?

I found some interesting quotes on refugees and their rights:

Quote:

- "...during a mass exodus, it may not be possible for a host country to carry out individual screening. In such circumstances, particularly when civilians are fleeing for similar reasons, a 'group' determination of refugee status may be declared, whereby each civilian is considered a refugee, in the absence of evidence to the contrary."

- "International law recognizes the right to seek asylum, but does not oblige states to provide it."

- "...refugees should not be penalized for having entered a country illegally if they have come directly from a place where they were in danger and have made themselves known to the authorities."

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/edumat/stud...fugees.htm

2a) Are these migrants being stopped at the border or are they being allowed to enter Hungary then kept in another location within the country? Did Hungary do anything illegal by not allowing them to continue to Germany for two days? Is the country within it's rights to hold migrants who are currently at camps?

2b) Does possessing a train ticket to Germany, who are accepting refugees, exempt these people from Hungarian border control, thus allowing them to enter the Schengen Area hassle-free?

I'm asking because the information out there can be used to argue both sides and I'm wondering which is correct in legal terms. On one hand it seems Hungary can process and refuse them if they don't meet refugee criteria. But on the other hand they are just a route country with Germany being the host, so perhaps it is up to Germany to process them? Also the question if they are coming in mass or not appears to play a factor as well.

Any answers and/or clarifications are much appreciated.

[MikeS]

I can't answer all your questions, but I believe most of them are coming in from Syria or Turkey, up through Greece, Macedonia and Serbia and into Hungary.

Here in Bulgaria they've actually built a fence along the border to Turkey - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...month.html - and I frequently see in the news that immigrant traffickers and corrupt border guards are being arrested. Still apparently more immigrants making it in here than in previous years, but it largely seems like most decide to go the other way around and up through Greece instead.

[johnfortunebg]

Hungary could stop and process them but the cucks in Germany suspended the Dublin agreement so they have no actual motivation to.

As a sidenote to MikeS post, this year there have been less immigrants than the previous one in Bulgaria. Part of this is the border fence (although it was generally poorly constructed), part of it is the fact that the Bulgarian border police became known for physically beating migrants and shipping them back to Turkey (often by sheer physical force) without processing them. Apparently, the word got round and now migrants try not to enter through Bulgaria. Which shows that you simply need to be tough with them and that'll somehow turn the tide.

Unfortunately, the cucks in our government are down with Junker's plan for 'refugee' resetlement and apparently we will be getting 2100 of them from Hungary, Greece and Italy. How they will survive in Bulgaria where the economy (apart from the software industry and the business process outsourcing one for which the migrants are unfit) is in shambles, people with a master's degree and 2 foreign languages are unemployed/underemployed and the welfare is non-existent, I don't know. Probably the EU taxpayer will foot the bill as usual.

[Belgrano]

(09-09-2015 02:43 PM)balmainjeans Wrote:  

1) Where are these people entering Hungary from? Is it Serbia? Are they all coming directly from Syria by land, by sea? Were they living/safe in Turkey and then decided to take a crack at entering the EU? Who is paying for their transportation?

From what I´ve heard about 25-40% of them are Syrians, the rest is mainly from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Iraq, Balkan countries.
They main route is Turkey-Greece-Macedonia-Serbia-Hungary.
If they actually are Syrians, they are coming from the refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon and maybe Jordan. Most of them were living there in safety for years now.
They either are paying themselves, as it is the upper-middle/middle class that is on the way now, or family and friends pool money and send the most promising guy.

Quote:

2a) Are these migrants being stopped at the border or are they being allowed to enter Hungary then kept in another location within the country? Did Hungary do anything illegal by not allowing them to continue to Germany for two days? Is the country within it's rights to hold migrants who are currently at camps?

They are finally being stopped at the border now.
Hungary did not do anything illegal by not allowing them to go further, they did their duty.
The country is obliged to protect its borders by the Schengen Agreement, which grants citizens of member states free movement in Europe, meaning no interior border controls. In order for this to work, the contracts require countries on the fringes of the EU to especially protect their external borders, as they are EU borders too.
Crossing the border illegally is a crime, if not done with a good reason, like seeking asylum. In order to see if the asylum claim is justified the authorities have to register the person, determine his/her identity, let them file the necessary documents and see if the person has a valid claim.
While their case is processed, they are brough to camps where they are provided for and have to wait for the result. This is because until a positive result is achieved, they are still illegals and technically guilty of a crime. If positive, they are allowed to stay in Hungary, if negative, they are deported.
All this is or rather should be standard procedure in EU member states.

Now, according to the Dublin III Regulation, the EU member state responsible to process an asylum claim is the one through which the asylum seeker first entered the EU. So in this case, Hungary.
If this state comes to the conclusion that the claim is not valid, the applicant is not allowed to try again in this or any other EU country and will be deported.
As almost none of the so called refugees have a valid reason for asylum, but are instead illegals trying to immigrate for economical/financial reasons, and Hungary has a low percentage of asylum requests granted, and they have only one attempt, they will try everything to not be registered there or anywhere else but their target country, usually Germany or Sweden. For example, throwing away their passports, so they cannot be identified and the veracity of their claims not determined, running from or resisting the police or using smugglers.
The bad conditions the illegals are shown in, camping outdoors, at railways stations, families/women/children lacking basic necessities etc. is due to them strictly refusing any help by the authorities, as it would mean getting registered in Hungary. So their "suffering" is their own choice, facilites for asylum seekers in Hungary are operated on a reasonable standard.

Quote:

2b) Does possessing a train ticket to Germany, who are accepting refugees, exempt these people from Hungarian border control, thus allowing them to enter the Schengen Area hassle-free?

Of course not. Hungary would break a lot of bi- and multilateral agreements doing that. Pacta sunt servanda. If Germany unilaterally suspends the Dublin III Regulation, that´s nice for them, but doesn´t release Hungary from its obligations. It only means that Germany won´t deport refugees from Syria back to Hungary.

Now if Hungary will go out of its way to enforce their own and, even more importantly, the EU law, when other European nations are so desperate to welcome the poor, disenfranchised migrants and yearning to take them in while painting Hungary as a heartless and cruel bogeyman, that´s a different question.

[balmainjeans]

Thanks a lot for the responses. Just have a couple quick follow-up questions.

(09-09-2015 04:08 PM)Celtic_Austrian Wrote:  

They main route is Turkey-Greece-Macedonia-Serbia-Hungary.

Are they travelling legally through these countries or as refugees? Do they pass through Greece as tourists? What is the reason they forgo trying to seek asylum in Greece? Is it simply because transportation to Germany is more difficult from there?

Quote:

Crossing the border illegally is a crime, if not done with a good reason, like seeking asylum. In order to see if the asylum claim is justified the authorities have to register the person, determine his/her identity, let them file the necessary documents and see if the person has a valid claim.
While their case is processed, they are brough to camps where they are provided for and have to wait for the result. This is because until a positive result is achieved, they are still illegals and technically guilty of a crime. If positive, they are allowed to stay in Hungary, if negative, they are deported.

So did Hungary end up processing them in the end or did they just get bullied by the EU and media into letting the train continue to Germany? Or did Hungary declare them refugees as they were large groups and couldn't carry out individual screening?

Quote:

Now, according to the Dublin III Regulation, the EU member state responsible to process an asylum claim is the one through which the asylum seeker first entered the EU. So in this case, Hungary.
If this state comes to the conclusion that the claim is not valid, the applicant is not allowed to try again in this or any other EU country and will be deported.

Again, if the first point of entry into the EU is through Greece, a Schengen country, then why aren't the asylum seekers being processed by the Greeks first?