[The Beast1]

Hey gents,

I've been pushing my bench over 200lbs for the firs time in my life. Something that has taken me a very long time, but well worth it.

However, I've noticed when I am lifting I don't have any pain. However, the second I release the weight after a set, I get this pain through my arms after immediately after I let the bar hit the rack.

What causes this and is this something I should be concerned about? It almost feels like the joints in my arms are angry that I took all of that force off.

[KeepMovingForward]

(08-21-2015 12:55 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Hey gents,

I've been pushing my bench over 200lbs for the firs time in my life. Something that has taken me a very long time, but well worth it.

However, I've noticed when I am lifting I don't have any pain. However, the second I release the weight after a set, I get this pain through my arms after immediately after I let the bar hit the rack.

What causes this and is this something I should be concerned about? It almost feels like the joints in my arms are angry that I took all of that force off.

Could be a number of things, I would definitely keep an eye on it.

When I was 20, I maxed out on bench at my gym. It was a slow grind to get the weight up, and I could feel it in my joints when I was grinding the weight up. There was no pain until the next day, when I felt it in my left shoulder joint, and it stayed with me for a few weeks.

Definitely double and triple check your form, make sure you're not relying too much on your shoulders to carry the load, and post a vid of you benching 200 and put it up for people to critique.

[Saweeep]

I've never heard of this before.

Perhaps could be nerve issues? It's odd that the pain only strikes after the lift.

[monster]

Where's the pain at? You don't mention.

Also, are you warming up? After I reached 30+ all these pains on my shoulder and wrist developed on my bench. I have to warm up with escalating pushups now and some stretches too then work up the weight slowly.

[The Beast1]

It's most intense right under my elbows but radiates through the entire arm.

A mysterious poster sent me this information:

Quote:

This sound more like *tight, short tendons* than joints. If you do a lot of typing, office work, smart phone and have a forward disposed posture, the tendons in the arms tend to become "short."

They have less flexibility than the muscle tissue and they can easily be strained.

The solution is intense massage of all tendons on top and bottom of the forearms, from wrist to elbow.

This is a superb device:

http://www.armaid.com/

I think this is might be the cause as I spend an inordinate amount of time at a computer. I'll book a massage too and hopefully have them focus on my arms.

[ladderff]

(08-21-2015 04:01 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

It's most intense right under my elbows but radiates through the entire arm.

A mysterious poster sent me this information:

Quote:

This sound more like *tight, short tendons* than joints. If you do a lot of typing, office work, smart phone and have a forward disposed posture, the tendons in the arms tend to become "short."

They have less flexibility than the muscle tissue and they can easily be strained.

The solution is intense massage of all tendons on top and bottom of the forearms, from wrist to elbow.

This is a superb device:

http://www.armaid.com/

I think this is might be the cause as I spend an inordinate amount of time at a computer. I'll book a massage too and hopefully have them focus on my arms.

Your secret admirer may have a point or he may be trying to sell you whatever's available at that link. The first thing I would do is check out http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-41045-...#pid845857, with particular attention to #1 and #3 on that list. When you have the correct grip and when you remember to supinate the wrists during the lift (pretend you are trying to "break the bar in half"), you will feel very stable and I would not be surprised if whatever's getting pinched or tweaked or whatever in your arm to produce this "radiating" pain, got better. Let us know if you make any progress on this.

[The Beast1]

(08-21-2015 05:17 PM)ladderff Wrote:  

(08-21-2015 04:01 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

It's most intense right under my elbows but radiates through the entire arm.

A mysterious poster sent me this information:

Quote:

This sound more like *tight, short tendons* than joints. If you do a lot of typing, office work, smart phone and have a forward disposed posture, the tendons in the arms tend to become "short."

They have less flexibility than the muscle tissue and they can easily be strained.

The solution is intense massage of all tendons on top and bottom of the forearms, from wrist to elbow.

This is a superb device:

http://www.armaid.com/

I think this is might be the cause as I spend an inordinate amount of time at a computer. I'll book a massage too and hopefully have them focus on my arms.

Your secret admirer may have a point or he may be trying to sell you whatever's available at that link. The first thing I would do is check out http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-41045-...#pid845857, with particular attention to #1 and #3 on that list. When you have the correct grip and when you remember to supinate the wrists during the lift (pretend you are trying to "break the bar in half"), you will feel very stable and I would not be surprised if whatever's getting pinched or tweaked or whatever in your arm to produce this "radiating" pain, got better. Let us know if you make any progress on this.

His advice was solid. This advice also is very good. I'm not supinating my wrists either.

[Hades]

Do you get the same pain with less weight on the bar?

[The Beast1]

(08-21-2015 07:16 PM)Hades Wrote:  

Do you get the same pain with less weight on the bar?

No, it only becomes noticeable around 190 lbs over 200 is when it starts getting intense.

[Saweeep]

Don't take this the wrong way but is it possible that you're misinterpreting the general sensation one feels after lifting heavy with something being wrong?

[TornadoByProxy]

As you get older, you should be concerned about everything. Things you ignored at 20 can become real problems if ignored at 40.
Two more things to think about are form and speed. Is the bar crossing your chest at the correct location, or are you cheating as it gets heavier? I've seen guys start crossing the bar lower on their chest and pulling their elbows in to handle the weight. If you can't do a rep with correct form, don't attempt it.
Also, lower the bar as slowly as it goes up. If you are snapping it down, you are stressing your tendons.

[scorpion]

Stop benching. It's a totally unnecessary lift that's responsible for more serious injuries than all other lifts combined. The biomechanics of doing a heavy bench press are very unnatural for the human body. Unless you are specifically training to compete in powerlifting, there's zero reason to bench. You can build a tremendous upper body (both in appearance and strength) without any benching whatsoever (focus on the overhead press for pure strength and HIT slow reps on a pec dec followed by cable flies to build the pectorals).

Honestly, it's ridiculous how many injuries I've seen guys get over the years from benching. Wrist problems. elbow problems, tons of shoulder issues, pec tears, even catastrophic head/neck injuries and deaths from dropping the bar. It's a stupid fucking lift that 99% of guys (i.e. everyone who is not a competing powerlifter) just do for ego reasons and because they think they have to in order to "get big". But you really don't. Focus on the other main compound lifts - squat, deadlift and press - and supplement with other good upper body compound lifts like barbell rows, weighted dips and pullups. Your physique and strength levels will suffer nothing from not benching, and you will drastically reduce your risk of injury over time, ensuring that you can continue to enjoy the benefits of lifting for decades.

[kbell]

Is the dumbbell press good as well?

I found this video on pec decs.

I have a similar machine which allows full flies as well. There is no dedicated pec dec machine though. However if you angle the arms so that it doesn't go out to 180* would that help reduce tension on the shoulders? I have a injured shoulder and the doctor said not to do full flies. I wasn't aware there was a shorter range of motion variation.

[Zep]

(08-22-2015 10:20 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

Stop benching. It's a totally unnecessary lift that's responsible for more serious injuries than all other lifts combined. The biomechanics of doing a heavy bench press are very unnatural for the human body. Unless you are specifically training to compete in powerlifting, there's zero reason to bench. You can build a tremendous upper body (both in appearance and strength) without any benching whatsoever (focus on the overhead press for pure strength and HIT slow reps on a pec dec followed by cable flies to build the pectorals).

Honestly, it's ridiculous how many injuries I've seen guys get over the years from benching. Wrist problems. elbow problems, tons of shoulder issues, pec tears, even catastrophic head/neck injuries and deaths from dropping the bar. It's a stupid fucking lift that 99% of guys (i.e. everyone who is not a competing powerlifter) just do for ego reasons and because they think they have to in order to "get big". But you really don't. Focus on the other main compound lifts - squat, deadlift and press - and supplement with other good upper body compound lifts like barbell rows, weighted dips and pullups. Your physique and strength levels will suffer nothing from not benching, and you will drastically reduce your risk of injury over time, ensuring that you can continue to enjoy the benefits of lifting for decades.

Totally agree. In my 20's and 30's I loved bench press, but, now my rotator cuffs go "click" and my joints hurt. Can't do it anymore. I can "bench" to failure with dumbells lying on a ball with no problems at all. So look at the mechanics. The ball doesn't freeze the shoulder blades in place like a fixed bench, the position of the hands angle naturally when you lower the dumbells, this is how the body parts want to move.

[The Beast1]

(08-22-2015 10:20 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

Stop benching. It's a totally unnecessary lift that's responsible for more serious injuries than all other lifts combined. The biomechanics of doing a heavy bench press are very unnatural for the human body. Unless you are specifically training to compete in powerlifting, there's zero reason to bench. You can build a tremendous upper body (both in appearance and strength) without any benching whatsoever (focus on the overhead press for pure strength and HIT slow reps on a pec dec followed by cable flies to build the pectorals).

Honestly, it's ridiculous how many injuries I've seen guys get over the years from benching. Wrist problems. elbow problems, tons of shoulder issues, pec tears, even catastrophic head/neck injuries and deaths from dropping the bar. It's a stupid fucking lift that 99% of guys (i.e. everyone who is not a competing powerlifter) just do for ego reasons and because they think they have to in order to "get big". But you really don't. Focus on the other main compound lifts - squat, deadlift and press - and supplement with other good upper body compound lifts like barbell rows, weighted dips and pullups. Your physique and strength levels will suffer nothing from not benching, and you will drastically reduce your risk of injury over time, ensuring that you can continue to enjoy the benefits of lifting for decades.

Your post reminds me of the big deadlifting debate we had a few months ago.

I'm confused by your post. You start by discouraging the bench press then go and proceed to recommend pressing in your post. Do you mean a standing over head press? At the moment, I'm training to become a competitive power lifter and in terms of mass the bench and overhead press have helped me gain a lot of mass on my upper body. Powerlifting is a hobby for me.

I'd rather incorporate more active stretching and massaging while focusing on form then go over to the machines or worse stop benching altogether. Thanks for the advice.

(08-21-2015 08:01 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

Don't take this the wrong way but is it possible that you're misinterpreting the general sensation one feels after lifting heavy with something being wrong?

No. I feel a good rush and burn. This is more sharp and intense. It feels similar to the type of pain I had when I had a shin splint.

[alexdagr81]

It could be that the heavier weight is exposing an injury or weakness you may have. I would try some myofacial release on the forearms, but also the upper back.

[Dirty Dan]

(08-22-2015 10:20 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

Stop benching. It's a totally unnecessary lift that's responsible for more serious injuries than all other lifts combined. The biomechanics of doing a heavy bench press are very unnatural for the human body. Unless you are specifically training to compete in powerlifting, there's zero reason to bench. You can build a tremendous upper body (both in appearance and strength) without any benching whatsoever (focus on the overhead press for pure strength and HIT slow reps on a pec dec followed by cable flies to build the pectorals).

Honestly, it's ridiculous how many injuries I've seen guys get over the years from benching. Wrist problems. elbow problems, tons of shoulder issues, pec tears, even catastrophic head/neck injuries and deaths from dropping the bar. It's a stupid fucking lift that 99% of guys (i.e. everyone who is not a competing powerlifter) just do for ego reasons and because they think they have to in order to "get big". But you really don't. Focus on the other main compound lifts - squat, deadlift and press - and supplement with other good upper body compound lifts like barbell rows, weighted dips and pullups. Your physique and strength levels will suffer nothing from not benching, and you will drastically reduce your risk of injury over time, ensuring that you can continue to enjoy the benefits of lifting for decades.

Would you recommend doing push ups? I hate benching, its just feels unnatural and I don't feel good after doing it as I feel when I do deadlifts or squats. So, good to know that its not really required to build the chest. However, I do like to do push ups.

[scorpion]

(08-22-2015 01:58 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Your post reminds me of the big deadlifting debate we had a few months ago.

I'm confused by your post. You start by discouraging the bench press then go and proceed to recommend pressing in your post. Do you mean a standing over head press? At the moment, I'm training to become a competitive power lifter and in terms of mass the bench and overhead press have helped me gain a lot of mass on my upper body. Powerlifting is a hobby for me.

I'd rather incorporate more active stretching and massaging while focusing on form then go over to the machines or worse stop benching altogether. Thanks for the advice.

Yes, "press" generically refers to the standing overhead press. This is because it is the original type of press done in the early days of lifting. The bench press is actually a modified version of what was called the floor press (laying on the floor and pressing the weight off the chest). The bench apparatus itself was designed to facilitate easier loading and unloading of the barbell when performing a floor press. The standing overhead press is a much safer lift from a biomechanical perspective, and will give better strength and athletic gains than the bench press.

And no offense, but unless you weigh < 120 lbs. or you just started lifting within the past few months, I wouldn't advise you to continue entertaining the notion of competing in powerlifting. If you're struggling with 200 lbs. on the bench you aren't going to win shit anyways, and are likely to just wreck your shoulders trying to push weights your body can't handle. Would you rather compete in powerlifting for a few years before suffering a career-ending injury, or would you prefer to lift recreationally for health/aesthetics for the next 40-50 years? You've got to listen to your body and be honest with yourself and your goals. If you're really serious about powerlifting and bench pressing, then by all means don't let me discourage you, just be advised that joint injuries are very likely in your future.

[scorpion]

(08-22-2015 02:20 PM)Dirty Dan Wrote:  

Would you recommend doing push ups? I hate benching, its just feels unnatural and I don't feel good after doing it as I feel when I do deadlifts or squats. So, good to know that its not really required to build the chest. However, I do like to do push ups.

Push ups are highly underrated for pec development. The best way to do them is with your feet elevated 12 - 36" (increase over time). Play around with your hand position until you find something that feels natural and doesn't overly strain your shoulders. You can either put your hands straight on the floor or grab small dumbbells to use as hand holds, whichever feels better to you. Then do high intensity reps - count 5 seconds down, zero pause at the bottom, 5 seconds up, zero pause at the top, repeat. That's one rep. Total muscular contraction sustained for the entire set. Try doing five sets of these to failure, then follow up with cable flies or machine flies.

[The Beast1]

(08-22-2015 02:22 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(08-22-2015 01:58 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Your post reminds me of the big deadlifting debate we had a few months ago.

I'm confused by your post. You start by discouraging the bench press then go and proceed to recommend pressing in your post. Do you mean a standing over head press? At the moment, I'm training to become a competitive power lifter and in terms of mass the bench and overhead press have helped me gain a lot of mass on my upper body. Powerlifting is a hobby for me.

I'd rather incorporate more active stretching and massaging while focusing on form then go over to the machines or worse stop benching altogether. Thanks for the advice.

Yes, "press" generically refers to the standing overhead press. This is because it is the original type of press done in the early days of lifting. The bench press is actually a modified version of what was called the floor press (laying on the floor and pressing the weight off the chest). The bench apparatus itself was designed to facilitate easier loading and unloading of the barbell when performing a floor press. The standing overhead press is a much safer lift from a biomechanical perspective, and will give better strength and athletic gains than the bench press.

And no offense, but unless you weigh < 120 lbs. or you just started lifting within the past few months, I wouldn't advise you to continue entertaining the notion of competing in powerlifting. If you're struggling with 200 lbs. on the bench you aren't going to win shit anyways, and are likely to just wreck your shoulders trying to push weights your body can't handle. Would you rather compete in powerlifting for a few years before suffering a career-ending injury, or would you prefer to lift recreationally for health/aesthetics for the next 40-50 years? You've got to listen to your body and be honest with yourself and your goals. If you're really serious about powerlifting and bench pressing, then by all means don't let me discourage you, just be advised that joint injuries are very likely in your future.

None taken, I weigh 205 lbs (started at 160lbs) and have been lifting for over 3 years now. I don't struggle per se, however it has been a slow grind to get up to 205 lbs. I've been making slow but steady gains for over a year now to make it to 205. Still going to stick with stretching, massaging, and form instead of eliminating the movement. Cheers.

[Repo]

You should really seek a trustworthy trainer to meet with you in real life. Unless someone in this forum has personally witnessed you bench press, there is no way that we can determine that this isn't a form issue.

[Truth Teller]

What does your back work look like? Do you do bent over rowing, pull ups, high pulls, or snatches?

As I've said in another thread, I don't get the fascination with bench press. Until the 1950s, however, it wasn't a lift most guys did. Take a look at physiques before then. Guys like Grimek and Stanko were ungodly strong and had tremendous development.

Try clean and pressing or, if you have to bench, incline pressing. I have an old shoulder injury from baseball, and I don't feel any pain on an incline bench. If I use a flat bench, it flares up.

[StrikeBack]

This is not a simple issue that can be diagnosed through your few words of description. You need at least a video, or ideally someone with bench and physiotherapy knowledge to look at your form in person.

As for the "why bench?" debate, I'd learn how to bench properly first before deciding whether it is for you. Bench is a much more complicated movement than press or dips or pushups.

While it's true that there are a lot of injuries in powerlifting, it's the sport with the lowest injury rate, and most injuries are not career ending. Raw powerlifting also has a lot fewer serious injuries than equipped powerlifting, which dominated the last couple of decades until about 3 years ago. The reason is that in raw lifting, few people load up the bar with too much more than what their body can handle, unlike equipped lifting. Joint injuries are rare. Most of the time you get a muscle strain or a minor tear, which will stop you from training at 100% (so no PB possible) but you can still lift more than most gym goers.

I don't get the hate for benching. I hate the press more, fucking thing is so hard sometimes with just an extra 0.5kg on the bar! Olympic weightlifting hated it so much, it was dropped from the sport in 1972!

[Beyond Borders]

For starters, I'd personally back off and "practice" with a lower weight for a while. Just because you manage to lift a certain weight doesn't mean you're quite ready to lift it consistently yet, and sometimes it's best to work on your form at a slightly lower weight and let your body adapt more.

It might be that some of your muscles are ready for the weight but that other supporting muscles aren't. There is nothing scientific about this suggestion, of course, but it just seems to make common sense to me that if you're experiencing pain you're not ready for that weight.

I made a thread earlier this year about elbow pain from an arm wrestling injury haunting me. I slowed things down a tad and now am doing dips and chins with a significant portion of my body weight hanging between my legs and have no pain whatsoever.

It's wise to listen to your body when it's signaling that it doesn't want to be pushed quite that far yet. Unless your form is off and you're setting yourself up for an injury, you'll progress in time. Meanwhile, you can ask for people with more expertise than you to critique your form, do a bit of research, etc.

If you worry staying at the same weight is going to stagnate results, there are other ways to make it more difficult and challenge yourself without increasing weight.

[RedPillUK]

Scorpion, how many injuries have you seen from benching? Have you been a personal trainer for a long time?

I mainly do bodyweight workouts, but I think that lifting heavy weights is great too. I can see how it is harder on your joints but I've never had any injuries and I'm careful to lift with good form. If you have weak wrists, I can see how that would be asking for an injury benching a lot of weight.

I've read both sides of the argument and I think it actually is a natural movement, I don't believe it actually does put your body in an unatural position. I don't ever feel in an unnatural position while benching.