[oldnemesis]

I'm reading more and more about them, but the whole idea is extremely alien to me. In the culture where I grew up such things simply do not exist. People do not approach strangers on a street/subway/bar with something like "my friend wants to give his girlfriend a boobjob gift certificate for the birthday, but she is very sensitive about her size; how should he proceed?". For someone who genuinely has such questions you usually ask your friends. If you ask a stranger, they would immediately think you have a hidden agenda, and either trying to sell them something or hitting on them. So this is something which looks extremely artificial to me - even worse than "what do you drink?" or "you first time here?"

So the first question would be, is it normal in US? Do people really ask the strangers of their opinions about their real-life situations, without having an agenda? If yes, is it East Coast-specific thing? In my almost six years living in US I have never seen it, and nobody ever asked me an opinion like that.

Now, what about Europe? Anyone used it in any European country? Especially Eastern Europe?

[Brian]

they've worked for me. i think the reality is that if the girl has an interest in you she really doesnt care what you use to open as long as you open.

[Amour Fou]

I am with oldnemesis here.

I've always found opinion openers strange, and I also considered that it was due to cultural differences. I don't know where he is from, but here in Brazil I'd say they would sound somewhat "alien" or artificial as well, but there is always the way you deliver it. I actually tried it once, but I think that the venue I was at contributed somewhat to this kind of opener, as I managed to talk to a group of girls who were seated on a table in a relatively quite environment. But it didn't work too well either, as it wasn't clear to them what I was trying to do - hit on them.

And I also think it falls back to the direct X indirect discussion (or how indirect can "indirect game" really be) such as was discussed on this thread:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-1694.html


And hasn't the opinion opener been overused in the english-speaking world? Don't girls immediately associate it with "The Game / PUA lingo"?

[flashbang]

(06-05-2011 01:05 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

I'm reading more and more about them, but the whole idea is extremely alien to me. In the culture where I grew up such things simply do not exist. People do not approach strangers on a street/subway/bar with something like "my friend wants to give his girlfriend a boobjob gift certificate for the birthday, but she is very sensitive about her size; how should he proceed?". For someone who genuinely has such questions you usually ask your friends. If you ask a stranger, they would immediately think you have a hidden agenda, and either trying to sell them something or hitting on them. So this is something which looks extremely artificial to me - even worse than "what do you drink?" or "you first time here?"

So the first question would be, is it normal in US? Do people really ask the strangers of their opinions about their real-life situations, without having an agenda? If yes, is it East Coast-specific thing? In my almost six years living in US I have never seen it, and nobody ever asked me an opinion like that.

Now, what about Europe? Anyone used it in any European country? Especially Eastern Europe?

I can only speak about Europe(including Eastern Europe). What I usually do is ask her about good clubs/bars in the city. This gives me information as to whether she's into that kind of scene or not. If not, ask her something else about the city. Play the newcomer card while using humour. Since you're a foreigner(exotic) you'll have a decent chance of getting a phone number. In some cases I even hijacked the girls' plans and got them to show me around the city. Try this out but approach en mass because as always it's a numbers game. Hope this helps!

[iknowexactly]

I'm from the US, and they always seemed cheesy to me, but I agree with the previous poster that, again, anything is better than nothing

For me it would be reasonable if I was asking, or asking an implicit question, about something I actually really was curious about.

For instance, I don't really like high heels. It indicates someone who generally doesn't like tomboy stuff like long bike rides, etc.

So I thought of the idea of hitting on women who WEREN"T wearing heels, (slightly fictionalized dialog follows)

Me: "You look good, and no high heels."
Her: "What's wrong with high heels.?"
Me: Well, do you think women wear high heels for themselves?
Her: Blah Blah
Me: I think because women are fixated on height, so they think men are. But we're not. Women who like to do things don't wear them. They want to shop."
Her: "I like to shop. For gear " [meaning outdoor gear.]
Me: "Yes, but then you want to DO something."
She nods agreement.

( That was the end of the real conversation, it could go into the outdoor activities she likes etc. )

So you're trying to get into her head but it's based on SOMETHING you know about her, even if it's just not wearing high heels.

Asking the typical "Do women lie more?" etc does seem canned to me but women will play along if they like you as they sort of know it's hard to start conversations-- they certainly hardly ever do it. It's sort of like playing a game of chess-- in a cafe you could sit down at a table with a chess set if the person didn't have a partner and playfully make a move P-K4.

If the guy was sociable he probably wouldn't say "WE DIDN'T AGREE TO BE PLAYING CHESS", he'd just make a move or
tell you his friend is coming back. Since courtship is essentially the same over 3-4 billion years the externalities are almost completely insignificant. She's screening based on unfathomable, deep neurological devices millenia old.
the verbal content of what you say is a very, very small part of success.

I've also had fun with just playing very dumb lately; asking an obvious question that any fool would know.
Like stare at the 100 muffins in the cabinet and ask
"Do you sell muffins?"

I've tried something like that twice and they actually laughed out loud both times so far. One of them got right on board
and joked with me, saying something as if she didn't know either.

This sounds a little idiotic but that's its strength.

1) Shows you're not cool, and you're willing to have fun. Shows you're not scared of her opinion.
2) Frees her to be playful, women really dislike looking buffoonish unless it's a shared activity.
3) If you can think of a dumb question that relates to her, it shows that you are particularly interested in her.

[gringochileno]

I don't think opinion openers really get you in "under the radar" since the girl is going to suspect you're hitting on her anyway, but like iknowexactly said, sometimes they'll play along anyway if they like you. I think it's kind of cheesy to open with them but they're great as routines that you can use after you've broken the ice. I like throwing one or two in after a little bit of time has passed because then you can qualify them on how they answer.

Amour Fou Wrote:

And hasn't the opinion opener been overused in the english-speaking world? Don't girls immediately associate it with "The Game / PUA lingo"?

For all the publicity it's gotten I don't the number of guys out there actually practicing game is that large. I've run material straight out of the The Game a number of times and never gotten called on it.

[Roosh]

Quote:

For all the publicity it's gotten I don't the number of guys out there actually practicing game is that large. I've run material straight out of the The Game a number of times and never gotten called on it.

Correct answer. The majority of guys don't try out the stuff they read, especially when it comes to cold approaching.

[CJ]

Opinion openers? Pfft, if I wanted a woman's opinion I'd give it to them.

[Sonsowey]

The only time I do this is when I'm actually talking about something with my friends and there's a cute girl close. When you're actually having a real discussion and you can just bring in a girl by turning your head and including her in the convo as if she had always been a part in it.

A friend had a good one, where he saw a girl and her mom together in the club and just went up to a chick and asked if she would ever go clubbing with their mom. Worked pretty well.

[speakeasy]

I think a situational opinion opener is fine. One time I saw this chic at a bar reading a book completely engrossed in it. I turned to a girl near me and said, "what do you think of getting caught up with reading at a bar on Friday night?" then pointed at the girl reading. We had a quick laugh about it then I segued into something else. It's still an opinion opener but since it's situational it doesn't seem so contrived and forced. Just look around your environment and try to come up with something interesting that can be turned into an opinion opener. I admit though it's hard to find something at times, which I guess is why guys carry some canned material as a backup.

[Tuthmosis]

The only kind of opinion openers I use are of the what-do-you-think-of-this-thing-I'm-wearing-or-have variety. I've found--through pretty extensive trial and error--that those are the only ones that work well. I'd agree with speakeasy that situational opinion openers also land nicely. Over the years, I've gotten good at quickly spotting things to work with in a setting that the untrained eye would find otherwise bland or nondescript.

The "classic" opinion openers (e.g., "which gender lies more") sound stilted and forced. I never thought those worked as openers. They're not bad as canned conversation topics to keep in your back pocket in case an approach starts to go stale.

[jariel]

I find the best "openers" are the simplest.

Anything else is beating around the bush because obviously you're talking to the girl because you want to meet her, but you're trying to do it in an indirect, almost oops this just happened kind of way.

This scene in "Spread" is pretty good...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfY3gM3sGnI

[oldnemesis]

So let me summarize so far - if I read it correctly, it looks like nobody but Brian here is actually using the opinion openers. At least those which are described in books, i.e. "I need a female opinion on something". One exception may be the question about good clubs/bars in the area, but this is more like functional opener (i.e. asking what time it is, directions or to take a picture). I use it too in Europe (even in Russia), with a limited success during daytime - surprisingly quite a lot of girls do not go out, and have no idea, so the conversation dies quickly unless you transition it to something else (and then it feels quite unnatural). At night, in a downtown/party area, it is more useful indeed - but so is asking directions to something relevant to her. I still remember the case in Lviv when a chick walked me all the way to the Museum of Religion, and we spent two hours there walking through. She, of course, was the museum-going type; it would not work for a party girl.

Then there seem to be a consensus among the people here that this kind of opener does not "fly under radar", which basically invalidates the main described purpose of it. If the girl already knows you're hitting on her, then there is no real difference between a situational opener - at least you don't need a difficult transition. It also feels more natural to ask her what she drinks than whether she thinks your friend should marry a girl from Thailand he met a month ago.

Now, to put it together:
- For night game I don't think there is any kind of opener which keep you "under the radar". C'mon, people do not routinely go to clubs to conduct opinion research among strangers. Even if some do, this would rather be interpreted as "he's trying to hit on me" anyway. But then, it is not really relevant, as people who do out to clubs basically expect others to hit on them, so the opening per se doesn't really matter as long as it is not a direct insult or something incredibly lame.
- For day game it matters more, depending on situation, but in this case the consensus so far is that it doesn't "keep you under the radar" because even in US this is NOT something people normally do.

Conclusion: opinion openers do not bring any extra value, and if you do not use them, you're not missing anything. Now, for me this is important because as I said it is not natural in my culture, so I'd have to push myself a lot to say something like that.

Let me know if I missed something, or you disagree with something.

[sir_seducer]

there is always big difference between theory and practical.....theory needs brain....practical needs courage.

[zanetti]

the effectiveness depends on the person delivering the opener

imagine how you would react if a young pamela anderson asked you if you think men lie more than women, or if a homeless, shopping bag lady with no teeth asks you the same question

[Giovonny]

(06-05-2011 11:22 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

The only kind of opinion openers I use are of the what-do-you-think-of-this-thing-I'm-wearing-or-have variety. I've found--through pretty extensive trial and error--that those are the only ones that work well. I'd agree with speakeasy that situational opinion openers also land nicely. Over the years, I've gotten good at quickly spotting things to work with in a setting that the untrained eye would find otherwise bland or nondescript.

The "classic" opinion openers (e.g., "which gender lies more") sound stilted and forced. I never thought those worked as openers. They're not bad as canned conversation topics to keep in your back pocket in case an approach starts to go stale.

My thoughts exactly. I don't like most "opinion openers". They sound a little forced and unnatural. Its not really common for a stranger to just come up and ask for someones opinion.

I prefer the situational opener or just a good old fashioned.."Hi, how are you"

I like to keep it simple and "accidental" like this guy says..

(06-05-2011 11:31 PM)jariel Wrote:  

I find the best "openers" are the simplest.

Anything else is beating around the bush because obviously you're talking to the girl because you want to meet her, but you're trying to do it in an indirect, almost oops this just happened kind of way.

I never wanna sound forced or pre planned. I try to make it seem like it was a "random" encounter. Just a spontaneous conversation.

[oldnemesis]

(06-06-2011 07:59 AM)zanetti Wrote:  

the effectiveness depends on the person delivering the opener
imagine how you would react if a young pamela anderson asked you if you think men lie more than women, or if a homeless, shopping bag lady with no teeth asks you the same question

Hmm. Do you think it is an opener which matters in this case?

[Vicious]

I think that opinion openers are good for settings where you need to "soften" (ie day game or where the culture is reserved such as Scandinavia) or if your game is not all that tight it is a very safe way of just going out there and talking to women. For the same reason opinion openers can be good when just arriving at a club and you need to be seen interacting with the crowd early, nevermind that it's not the most direct or powerful approach.

[Gmac]

Opinion openers are weaker (in my opinion) but are easier for guys just getting into game because they're pretty indirect and less confrontational. They lessen the rejection blow somewhat and make it easier to exit from.

[haywire]

I have used opinion openers during day game with a decent success rate. It usually consists of asking an innocuous question that most of the women would have atleast some idea about and would elicit more than a yes/no, and with their response you can judge their level of interest and proceed further. For instance, I usually ask them "Do you know where the [insert name] yoga studio is?" Now most women(the fit ones ofcourse!) either already go to one, or want to join one. After that I follow up with "Is it good? have you tried it? etc etc" and get the conversation started.

[Saladin]

I use more situational than opinion openers. Aka I'll use an opinion opener for that specific setting. If I'm outside a restaurant and girls are looking at the menu I'll ask them about the restaurant and whether they would recommend it. This is a great way to open up a 2 or bigger group of girls.

[Giovonny]

(06-08-2011 07:04 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

Opinion openers are weaker (in my opinion) but are easier for guys just getting into game because they're pretty indirect and less confrontational. They lessen the rejection blow somewhat and make it easier to exit from.

Opinion openers and asking girls for directions and stuff like that can defiantly work. But, I think going direct helps to build your Game alot faster. Of course there is always a time to go indirect. But, going direct forces you to "dig deeper" into your Inner Game.

When you say..."Excuse me, can I get your opinion on something"?

That sort of allows you to hide behind the topic of conversation and you don't really display your Masculine sexuality.

When you say..."That dress is hot, you look nice today"

There is no where to hide. Its just you and her. She will feel your true intentions and Masculinity.

This is more risky but more powerful. Going direct (and playful) like this has helped me grow my inner Game much faster. This challenges you much more, and that greater challenge helps you get stronger, faster.

[jariel]

Supreme goes in on "opinion openers", I think this was the same day we started this conversation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-XLMVMwD...age#t=554s

[jariel]

(06-08-2011 01:48 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

When you say..."That dress is hot, you look nice today"

That's two compliments.

If you're going to compliment a woman, it should be about something that's not obvious (i.e. not a dress), and you shouldn't throw a lot of extras on it.

I heard a guy at a club tell a girl she was lovelier than the Mona Lisa.

(Insert Whammy Sound)

[Vicious]

(06-08-2011 01:48 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

When you say..."That dress is hot, you look nice today"

There is no where to hide. Its just you and her. She will feel your true intentions and Masculinity.

This is more risky but more powerful. Going direct (and playful) like this has helped me grow my inner Game much faster. This challenges you much more, and that greater challenge helps you get stronger, faster.

Powerful? How is this any different from random chump supplication? I don't see this getting Joe Schmoe anywhere,