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Homework for children
#1

Homework for children

This was originally a response to Atlanta Man on the "Things that don't exist but should by now" thread. I've decided that it probably derails the thread, so I've put it here. I'm not a parent, but I'm a teacher and I've always been lucky to work in schools where the teacher is given the right to decide the appropriate amount and nature of homework given to students. My advice relates to pre-teen children.

Quote: (06-29-2015 08:27 AM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

All boys schools without homework. Homework is the stupidest thing ever invented, I do not know how it has persisted so long.School should be year round and homework should be eliminated. Boys and girls learn differently and core subjects should be taught separately while bullshit classes and easy stuff should be co ed.

The aim of homework shouldn't be for the child to learn new material, or even to practise what's being taught at school. The value of homework is to get the parents to take an interest in what their children are learning. Children whose parents have a positive attitude towards their learning will themselves have a more positive attitude towards their own learning.

Homework should never be lists of maths problems. It shouldn't be "read four chapters and answer this list of questions." It shouldn't be "research gay acceptance in classical Greece and write a 1000 word essay." The skills that would supposedly be developed while doing this should instead be developed during school hours.

Homework instead should take the form of enjoyable, quality time spent with parents and family. Remember how your grandfather used to read to you when he visited? Remember how, as your reading ability improved, you began reading the stories with his help? Remember how when you visited your grandfather he always had a novel sitting on the sofa which he would pick up to read after the six o'clock news? There's a lot of research that shows that parents reading with/to their kids is the single biggest factor in developing high functioning literacy skills.

There are three things a parent can do to improve their children's reading. There is no mystery, it's not hard, and it is always enjoyable.
  • Read to/with your child everyday - 10 minutes is enough, but with time, most children will demand much more. Ask them questions, not just literal questions, but ask them about their own response to what they've read.
  • Share you love of literature. Talk about the books you are reading - perhaps even share some passages and discuss it with your child. (I wouldn't recommend "Bang" or "Day Bang" until they are at least 16 years old).
  • Be a role model. If your child sees you reading on a regular basis, he/she will wish to emulate you.
The homework sheet I send home to my kids each week generally consists of:
  • Read with a family member for 10-20 minutes each day. (I send home books appropriate to their reading level, but I also encourage them to use books from the library on topics which interest them, even if it's beyond their reading ability. It's amazing to see a child (usually boys) overcome literacy difficulties when they are reading about a topic that really interests them.
  • There will be two or three maths problems related to skills learned during the week. The purpose isn't to practise these skills, but to give the students a sense of accomplishment as they demonstrate their newly acquired skills to their parents.
That's it. Children who are made to spend significant time after school completing boring, mindless homework assignments will lose interest in real learning and develop social handicaps. There's also a lot of research that shows physical activity has a positive effect on academic development - if a child is given time to run around, he/she will attain skills and knowledge faster than the child who sits at a desk for two hours before dark completing homework.
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#2

Homework for children

Quote: (06-29-2015 10:14 AM)Horus Wrote:  
  • Read to/with your child everyday - 10 minutes is enough, but with time, most children will demand much more. Ask them questions, not just literal questions, but ask them about their own response to what they've read.
  • Share you love of literature. Talk about the books you are reading - perhaps even share some passages and discuss it with your child. (I wouldn't recommend "Bang" or "Day Bang" until they are at least 16 years old).
  • Be a role model. If your child sees you reading on a regular basis, he/she will wish to emulate you.

Just having books around would be enough if nothing else.

Growing up, none of my neighbourhood friends read. I did, loved to do it, and preferred to spend an afternoon reading than playing out. My house was the only one in the neighbourhood with books and actual bookcases, they had nothing but their schoolbooks, not even a coloring book that I can remember.

I dont remember my parents reading to me (probably they did when I was a little kid and I cant remember) discussing a book, or seeing them reading (though im sure they read, just that I didnt saw it, they where working people and I dont think they had a lot of free time). But there where a lot of age-appropriate and age-innapropriate books in the house, and after learning to read at a very young age, the best memories of my childhood are sitting on the carpet reading, which was more fun to me than my second preferred activity, which was catching bugs in the park in a mayo jar and then taking them back home to identify its species from an encyclopedia.
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#3

Homework for children

Quote: (06-29-2015 11:07 AM)germanico Wrote:  

Quote: (06-29-2015 10:14 AM)Horus Wrote:  
  • Read to/with your child everyday - 10 minutes is enough, but with time, most children will demand much more. Ask them questions, not just literal questions, but ask them about their own response to what they've read.
  • Share you love of literature. Talk about the books you are reading - perhaps even share some passages and discuss it with your child. (I wouldn't recommend "Bang" or "Day Bang" until they are at least 16 years old).
  • Be a role model. If your child sees you reading on a regular basis, he/she will wish to emulate you.

Just having books around would be enough if nothing else.

Growing up, none of my neighbourhood friends read. I did, loved to do it, and preferred to spend an afternoon reading than playing out. My house was the only one in the neighbourhood with books and actual bookcases, they had nothing but their schoolbooks, not even a coloring book that I can remember.

I dont remember my parents reading to me (probably they did when I was a little kid and I cant remember) discussing a book, or seeing them reading (though im sure they read, just that I didnt saw it, they where working people and I dont think they had a lot of free time). But there where a lot of age-appropriate and age-innapropriate books in the house, and after learning to read at a very young age, the best memories of my childhood are sitting on the carpet reading, which was more fun to me than my second preferred activity, which was catching bugs in the park in a mayo jar and then taking them back home to identify its species from an encyclopedia.

Your house was filled with books. Your parents were readers.

You learned to read at an early age. You didn't pick up a book and magically read the symbols on the page. Children learn to read early as a result of their parents' input - I will bet that your parents read to you even though you don't remember it.

I remember spending entire weekends after soccer/cricket matches doing nothing but reading. There was always something on the shelf to read as a result of my dad's obsessive trips to garage sales and hoarding tendencies.

Would the present-day child of parents obsessed with Facebook and Buzzfeed and Daily Mail also develop the same love of reading?

And Germanico, you're absolutely right. A house filled with books is invaluable for children after they have gained basic literacy skills.
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#4

Homework for children

School should be year round with 1-2 week breaks for christmas, summer, easter, etc, run from 9-4, with an hour and a half gym class that teaches strength training. You get graded by how much weight you pull, you don't pull as much weight you don't get a good grade.

Homework shouldn't exist in any form especially with a solid 8-9 hour school day.

I always found school sports to be stupid and a waste of time. Gym time with a focus on strength training in a fully stocked weight room.

When i'm a bazillionaire this is the type of school i'd run.
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#5

Homework for children

Quote: (06-29-2015 12:18 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Homework shouldn't exist in any form especially with a solid 8-9 hour school day.

Do you not think that there's value in giving students small amounts of homework as described above in order for the parents to understand and have a role in what their children are learning? I consider reading with children to be the most important part of my students' "homework." It's hugely beneficial. Add a couple of relevant maths problems each week and that's it. The key is that it is viewed as quality, enjoyable time where the child is able to share his/her accomplishments with the parents, and the parent has the chance to share and discuss his/her skills, knowledge and ideas through literature.
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#6

Homework for children

Quote: (06-29-2015 12:18 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

School should be year round with 1-2 week breaks for christmas, summer, easter, etc, run from 9-4, with an hour and a half gym class that teaches strength training. You get graded by how much weight you pull, you don't pull as much weight you don't get a good grade.

There is a charter school in Brooklyn which has 3 hours of physical education a day.

Many charter schools do indeed have longer school days and shorter summer breaks, and find increased student performance from that.

There are also many charter schools that, unlike public schools, regularly kick out students for poor behavior and have very strict discipline, and as a result, have better results.

You could, if you were inclined, start a charter school along these lines. There already are many.

I feel like this might be a great project for the manosphere to work on, developing a charter school or eventually a network of charter school for boys that actually provided a positive challenging environment to shape young men. Physical education, study of the classics, strict discipline to help bring out the best in them without scolding them for actually being boys, allowing them outlets to express their masculinity instead of drugging them up to suppress it.
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#7

Homework for children

Quote: (06-29-2015 12:37 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

There is a charter school in Brooklyn which has 3 hours of physical education a day.

Three hours of physical activity a day sounds like the right amount to me.

If I had my way, academic lessons wouldn't last longer than thirty minutes and would be interspersed with physical activity. Children, especially boys but also girls, are much more focused when they return to class after this in my experience.

Some of this physical activity should be supervised, such as sport or PE class.

Most of it should be unsupervised. When you provide 8 year old children with a jungle gym, a few soccer balls, tennis balls, a cricket bat and a large field, they will do what comes naturally. They will play, they will fight, they will develop social skills, and they will love every second.

And when they come back to class, exhausted and covered in dirt, they will be dying to write a story about the strange insect they saw while they became distracted during their game.
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#8

Homework for children

I disagree, in maths which I have tutored privately but not taught, to some degree drilling and repetition are needed to reduce needless mistakes.
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#9

Homework for children

Quote: (06-29-2015 01:06 PM)tom Wrote:  

I disagree, in maths which I have tutored privately but not taught, to some degree drilling and repetition are needed to reduce needless mistakes.

True. Drilling and repetition in maths is important, but only after the concept is understood. I can literally teach a parrot to recite the times tables, but it will not understand the meaning of what it is reciting. A student telling me that 3x5=15 is only useful when he understands that this means 3 groups of 5 objects totals 15. Without this understanding, his "knowledge" is useless and has no practical application.

I remember learning how to divide fractions in school. When given the problem 5÷½ the solution is simple. Flip the denominator and the numerator and multiply by the original number. 5x 2/1 =10. By using that method I would get the answer correct every time but I didn't understand what it meant and therefore it had no practical application for me.
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#10

Homework for children

There is a whole red pill for school that you might want to examine. This is a good introduction:

http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html
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#11

Homework for children

I love reading and my parents never read to me, ever. They couldn’t speak English.

I’m not sure if a parent needs to be involved in the homework at all, my parents wanted me to study, but did they ever sit there and go through anything with me? No. I think it’s more about the parents pushing and supporting the kids in their academics.

There’s plenty of kids with parents from Asia who never got read to by parents, and who are now doing well academically.

As an aside – we need more male teachers in the classroom. This is the current situation in Southern California:

SoCal schools may see more interns, substitutes in classrooms as teacher shortage grows

Quote:Quote:

School is out for the summer, but for some in education, the work is just beginning on a problem that is growing more acute: the teacher shortage.
….
A recent state report found that candidates in teacher preparation programs declined for the 12th consecutive year. The number of new teachers is down 26 percent over the past five years.

Interest in teaching fell following recession-era budget cuts that also drove many experienced teachers from the field. Some university students who had sought degrees in education changed majors to pursue more secure careers.

“What is worrisome is that, you know, we’ve worked really hard to place fully credentialed teachers in the classroom and now that is becoming more and more difficult because they just aren’t out there,” Glassman-Sommer said.

The good news for school districts is the tide in teacher candidates may be starting to turn, according Aimee Nelson, interim director of Cal State Fullerton's Center for Careers in Teaching.

“We’re starting to see more of an interest in our incoming freshmen, even in terms of who's interested in teaching, we're seeing more students coming in for advising," she said. "It’s definitely ramping up."

During a campus visit to Cal State Fullerton earlier this month, 16 teacher hopefuls — all women —filled a conference room to learn about the university's teacher program.
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#12

Homework for children

Quote: (06-29-2015 12:31 PM)Horus Wrote:  

Quote: (06-29-2015 12:18 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Homework shouldn't exist in any form especially with a solid 8-9 hour school day.

Do you not think that there's value in giving students small amounts of homework as described above in order for the parents to understand and have a role in what their children are learning? I consider reading with children to be the most important part of my students' "homework." It's hugely beneficial. Add a couple of relevant maths problems each week and that's it. The key is that it is viewed as quality, enjoyable time where the child is able to share his/her accomplishments with the parents, and the parent has the chance to share and discuss his/her skills, knowledge and ideas through literature.

No I don't. Work, whether it is "homework", chores, or a job is just that work. I don't have any desire to partake in any of it unless my kid has questions such as, "how do I do this?" My involvement with my child's education is when they don't perform well on their subjects and an intervention is needed. They're struggling? Send the teacher an email and meet in person if necessary.

I have no desire to re-learn subjects that I already learned as a child. My kids job is to go to school and get good grades. My involvement as the "manager" is to intervene when things go awry. I'm not going to be there 100% of the time to hand hold and make education an enjoyable process. Quite honestly, not all learning is enjoyable and no amount of hand holding will make it so.

If I want to read a book with my children, I'll get a book that I want to read with them not some busy work assigned by their teacher.
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#13

Homework for children

Quote: (06-29-2015 01:27 PM)Horus Wrote:  

Quote: (06-29-2015 01:06 PM)tom Wrote:  

I disagree, in maths which I have tutored privately but not taught, to some degree drilling and repetition are needed to reduce needless mistakes.

True. Drilling and repetition in maths is important, but only after the concept is understood. I can literally teach a parrot to recite the times tables, but it will not understand the meaning of what it is reciting. A student telling me that 3x5=15 is only useful when he understands that this means 3 groups of 5 objects totals 15. Without this understanding, his "knowledge" is useless and has no practical application.

Agreed, you need to see that spark in their eyes("OH that's how it works"), before you assign them exercises to reinforce that.
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#14

Homework for children

When my son was young I made sure to find out what his Math curriculum would be for the upcoming year and would start teaching it to him in the summer so he would have a leg up.

There's nothing more satisfying in the world than teaching your son and seeing him learn and grow from your instruction. Whether it's Math, doing chores, or sports. They all build self-confidence.
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#15

Homework for children

Quote:Quote:

There are three things a parent can do to improve their children's reading. There is no mystery, it's not hard, and it is always enjoyable.

My father would read to me every chance he got. At least that is what I remember, he would read long several hundred page novels to me and my siblings. I remember being enthralled by the stories and just generally loved the time my father was giving to us.

I'm certain I developed my love of reading from being read to as a child. I was devouring 300+ page novels on a weekly basis from 7-8th grade. Some kiddy stuff, but I really started to enjoy Michael Crichton and John Grisham as authors. Of course I read all the LOTR books in about 2-3 weeks [The Silmarillion and hobbit included].

It was also from my father that I garnered a healthy love of physical competition and possessed the proper mindset to compete since I was big enough to try to push him over.
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#16

Homework for children

Quote: (06-29-2015 04:02 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

If I want to read a book with my children, I'll get a book that I want to read with them not some busy work assigned by their teacher.

We seem to be more or less in agreement. When parents tell me that they read with their child regularly but are concerned that there could be something more they could do, assuming that the child is making steady progress at school, I tell them to simply continue what they are doing. There is no need to make it any more complicated than that. I do send home books every day that the parents have an option to use, since many families simply don't own books or make trips to the library, but if the parents and children are choosing books themselves then that is even better. When I have a new class, I am able to tell within a week those students whose parents read with them regularly - parental involvement makes that much of a difference.

Perhaps I shouldn't even use the word homework as that seems to cause confusion. When we think of "homework," we recall the long, boring set of tasks - (essentially busy work as Beast puts it) - that had to be completed before we were allowed to go outside to play. It's been demonstrated time and time again that not only is this useless in consolidating a child's learning, but also kills a student's natural love of learning.

I consider time spent reading with a child to be a basic responsibility of any parent. If it feels like a chore, if it's stressful or not enjoyable, then there is something wrong. It could take the form of sharing a story before bed or after dinner. It could be flipping through the child's favourite book on dinosaurs and discussing the content. It could be consulting a recipe book before cooking a meal together and asking him to help you with directions while you're cooking. It doesn't matter how you do it - as long as there are books and quality time involved, it will undoubtedly have a huge positive impact on his literacy abilities.

One misconception regarding the teaching of literacy is that reading is simply the act of pointing at a series of words, saying the words you recognise, sounding out the words you don't, and getting to the end of the story. However, once children have acquired sound phonics skills and can recognise high-frequency words, this is no longer the case. In fact, I rarely have students read a text out loud. These decoding skills are merely a means towards developing comprehension, inference and higher level thinking skills.

For example, let's say that I am a student and I am reading the GALNUC section from Roosh's "Day Bang." These are the skills I will need to fully access the text in a meaningful way while reading independently.
  • Decoding - I recognise most of the words. I use phonics skills to sound out the words I don't recognise. When I can't sound out the words, I can make a good guess based on the context of the sentence. By doing this, I can access at least 95% of the text
  • Basic comprehension - When asked what the acronym GALNUC stands for, I am able to answer accurately. This displays that I understand the literal meaning of what I have read, and I can answer questions using information from a single section of the text. This is the point at which most teachers are satisfied that their students have fully accessed the reading material - A+ for everyone.
  • Higher level comprehension - I can answer the question "Why is GALNUC so effective?" There is a clear, literal explanation in the text which I can use to answer this, but I may have to draw on several relevant sections in order to effectively answer this question.
  • Inference - "Your main goal is to get a girl into a night venue, preferably one that serves alcohol." Even though it's not explicitly mentioned in the sentence, I am able to "read between the lines." From this sentence, I can infer that Roosh means that girls will be more relaxed and open inside a night venue and with a few drinks under their belt.
  • Questioning - I fully understand what Roosh has written. However, I have further relevant questions which I feel he didn't adequately cover.
  • Making connections - I can discuss how GALNUC relates to my own personal experience. Perhaps I recall a time when, even though I didn't specifically use the GALNUC process, a girl eventually warmed up to me and asked me questions after five minutes of little response. From what I have read, I will consider refining my conversation techniques based on the advice of the text.
  • Synthesising - I am able to combine my own knowledge and experience with Roosh's knowledge and experience in order to form my own opinions and perspective. I may be heavily critical of Roosh's ideas and provide evidence for this. I may accept some of his ideas, but reject others, again using evidence based on my own experiences. I may completely embrace everything he says.
The above list would seem incredibly complex for the average parent wishing to help their child. My advice would be to completely forget about this list - I am merely pointing out that the main purpose of reading is not reading in itself, but the resulting knowledge, critical thinking skills and enjoyment. The ability to read is merely a tool. My point is that it is the discussions that arise from reading are hugely beneficial. Most guys here are of above average intelligence, and even if they weren't thinking of the list of skills above while reading with their children, discussions would naturally flow towards areas which would enhance these skills. Ideally, these skills would be taught in the classroom. In reality, most teachers are barely aware of the existence of these skills. At best, a competent teacher will be able to coax out some of these skills, but even in small groups it's impossible to achieve the quality of discussions that occur between children and parents on a one to one basis.

Quote: (06-29-2015 04:02 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

My involvement with my child's education is when they don't perform well on their subjects and an intervention is needed. They're struggling? Send the teacher an email and meet in person if necessary.

Do you really want to solely entrust a teacher with your child's literacy and numeracy skills? How would you know that they're struggling if you don't have some involvement? Standardised testing is a very poor indicator of a student's true ability. Are you sure that the all teachers will proactively communicate with you if they feel the child is falling behind?

You must realise that, in most Western countries, the stereotype of teachers is generally true. There is a large amount of teachers that are, at best, mediocre, and at worst, dangerously incompetent. That's not even taking into account the teachers who actually care about your child's development. Nobody will ever have more interest in a child's academic progress that his/her parents, but to find a teacher that is both competent and genuinely cares about their students is rare. If you were to place a secret microphone inside any staff room at a school, you would be disgusted at the way many teachers talk about their students.

It also baffles me why parents are only concerned when their child is falling behind. Falling behind what exactly? The arbitrary list of skills an education board has deemed to be appropriate for children of a certain age? We refer to "underachieving" students as having "special needs." However, all students have special needs. For example, a child of above average ability is wasting his time and talent if he is learning the same material that the average children are learning. He will coast and become bored, while achieving high grades with little effort. If you don't live in an area where differentiated learning appropriate to a student's individual needs is standard, then it's up to you as a parent to provide him with the extra intellectual stimulus which will enable him to reach his true potential.
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#17

Homework for children

Quote: (06-29-2015 06:42 PM)Onto Wrote:  

When my son was young I made sure to find out what his Math curriculum would be for the upcoming year and would start teaching it to him in the summer so he would have a leg up.

There's nothing more satisfying in the world than teaching your son and seeing him learn and grow from your instruction. Whether it's Math, doing chores, or sports. They all build self-confidence.

That's great that you gave your son such an advantage.

Did the teachers recognise that his maths ability was superior to that of his peers and seek to extend those abilities? Or was he stuck learning the same material as his classmates, material which he already understood?

Basically, did the teacher allow your son to build on the advantages you offered to him in order to reach his full academic potential?
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#18

Homework for children

Great thread Horus.

Kid's time today, and to be honest for many decades now, is far too structured. How in blazes is a kid going to really learn and absorb anything if nearly all waking hours are spent in structured activities - either classroom, homework, structured sports and TV/computer. You'll just end up with semi-robots who constantly seek "approval". By getting into a good college, good job etc. But they are not in any position to create anything new.
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#19

Homework for children

Quote: (06-30-2015 07:46 AM)Horus Wrote:  

Quote: (06-29-2015 04:02 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

My involvement with my child's education is when they don't perform well on their subjects and an intervention is needed. They're struggling? Send the teacher an email and meet in person if necessary.

Do you really want to solely entrust a teacher with your child's literacy and numeracy skills? How would you know that they're struggling if you don't have some involvement? Standardised testing is a very poor indicator of a student's true ability. Are you sure that the all teachers will proactively communicate with you if they feel the child is falling behind?

You must realise that, in most Western countries, the stereotype of teachers is generally true. There is a large amount of teachers that are, at best, mediocre, and at worst, dangerously incompetent. That's not even taking into account the teachers who actually care about your child's development. Nobody will ever have more interest in a child's academic progress that his/her parents, but to find a teacher that is both competent and genuinely cares about their students is rare. If you were to place a secret microphone inside any staff room at a school, you would be disgusted at the way many teachers talk about their students.

It also baffles me why parents are only concerned when their child is falling behind. Falling behind what exactly? The arbitrary list of skills an education board has deemed to be appropriate for children of a certain age? We refer to "underachieving" students as having "special needs." However, all students have special needs. For example, a child of above average ability is wasting his time and talent if he is learning the same material that the average children are learning. He will coast and become bored, while achieving high grades with little effort. If you don't live in an area where differentiated learning appropriate to a student's individual needs is standard, then it's up to you as a parent to provide him with the extra intellectual stimulus which will enable him to reach his true potential.

I was spoiled, I went to an excellent high school and I had a blast learning. Though, it was interspersed with some extreme struggling when I got into higher level math and science.

I had to take the same "No Child Left Behind" tests that other students in the rougher public schools had to take. My particular school was one of those "magnet charter schools" gone public after some legal BS. Regardless, they boasted a 100% pass rate on the state exams. 100% percent. Other inner city school districts couldn't even match that. I'm from a 3rd tier city as well.

The SAT and AP tests were way more intense then these state required tests. The state tests were so laughably easy that I managed to score a near 95% on the math section when I was at the time getting a pity pass B- in Algebra 2.

I even went so far as to write about the children's book "Duck for President" for the writing essay. I think they gave me a 9/10 for that too.

If students can't even pass those jokes of a test then they shouldn't graduate, plain and simple. The tests aren't that hard and my teachers certainly didn't teach to any test. They developed a well rounded curricula that happened to include testable content.

I honestly think child tax credits should be variable on school performance. School isn't hard if you show up, listen, and at least try you can score Bs and Cs. It would make parents more inclined to care about their child's performance at school.

If anything, my K-8 experience at a private school fits more of the feminizing BS we complain about here today. A good high school is important. Children should be taught at home until they reach high school freshmen age.

Quote: (06-29-2015 12:37 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

I feel like this might be a great project for the manosphere to work on, developing a charter school or eventually a network of charter school for boys that actually provided a positive challenging environment to shape young men. Physical education, study of the classics, strict discipline to help bring out the best in them without scolding them for actually being boys, allowing them outlets to express their masculinity instead of drugging them up to suppress it.

Agreed, i've been pondering ways to make such a school feasible.
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