[jbkunt2]

Hi all,

Are any of the so-called fat burners on the market any good? Obviously when used with a good diet, etc.

I saw Ubervita W700 Thermogenic Hyper Metabolize has like 9k reviews on amazon with a 4.1 rating but I've no clue if they are mostly fake or what...

[kinjutsu]

Most of the stuff is low quality and will cause you more trouble than it's worth.
Your best bet is to cut calories and be more active.
There's only one way to lose weight without hurting your health.
You already know what it is.

[Hades]

One thing with thermogenics that you want to be aware of is that it's pretty ridiculous to just go out and buy thermogenic compounds and dose up on them when (in general) 99% of people haven't bothered looking up what a thermogenic is, how it works, or if thermogenics exist that aren't in pill form.

Whatever can stimulate the metabolism is considered thermogenic. Protein itself is thermogenic, cinnamon is thermogenic, ice water is thermogenic, capsaicin and black pepper are thermogenic, green tea is thermogenic, caffeine and nicotine are thermogenic, etc. If you're not dosing up your protein shakes with cinnamon, spicing your chicken breasts heavily, drinking like a gallon of ice cold green tea or water every day, and considering taking caffeine supplements (risky if you don't want disturbed sleep) then you're approaching the whole concept of thermogenics wrong.

Now you can go out and buy a fat burner but if you're not trying to compound it with stuff you can basically do without spending any money or hardly any effort, you're just bending over and asking somebody to take your money.

For instance I wrote a post a long while back about the benefit of drinking very cold water if you think it's trivial.

Hades Wrote:

I keep a pitcher of water in the fridge and rotate it to the freezer once I get home from work, so after a half hour I can drink about two liters of ice-cold water.

Jamie Lewis at Chaos and Pain says that cold water has a thermogenic effect and can actually cause some fat loss. I'm working off the cuff here but it takes a calorie to raise one gram of water by one degree celsius, there's a thousand grams of water in a liter, so going from (say) 3 degrees celsius (ice water) to 37 degrees celsius (body temperature) would be 34 degrees celsius difference, or 34 calories per gram. This would make it 64 thousand calories.

Since food calories are actually kilocalories though, you're at 64 Calories of fat burned just by drinking water.

You can sit on the couch and watch reruns of Futurama while burning the same amount of fat as if you just jogged a mile, and all you have to do is get up every half hour or so and piss.

Look at that, 64 calories worth of fat burned just by drinking two liters of ice cold water.

Edit: If you've done all that and are seriously interested in drugs, an ECA stack or the cannibal series of fat burners on chaos and pain are the real deal for burning fat.

[Virtus]

The real deal is dnp but unless you learn all there is stay away as it kills. Clenbuterol also works well

[blck]

No thermogenics/fat loss pills works alone.
People still believe in the "magic pill" but without a calorie counting diet you won't find it useful.

For what I've tested on myself:
1) the first commercialised Ripped fuel was the strongest pill I've ever tested, causing you insomnia and stomach ache due to the amount of caffeine in it

2) Jack3d, Not for the calorie burning purpose but it was a really strong side effect due to the geranium robertanium that cut the soreness so moreintense training and more often.

3) Right now I'm testing grenade thermo detonator but due to the fast I'm doing the result can't be relied on but it's what I found having almost the same effect as the Ripped fuel

[redbeard]

(06-21-2015 05:57 PM)Hades Wrote:  

One thing with thermogenics that you want to be aware of is that it's pretty ridiculous to just go out and buy thermogenic compounds and dose up on them when (in general) 99% of people haven't bothered looking up what a thermogenic is, how it works, or if thermogenics exist that aren't in pill form.

Whatever can stimulate the metabolism is considered thermogenic. Protein itself is thermogenic, cinnamon is thermogenic, ice water is thermogenic, capsaicin and black pepper are thermogenic, green tea is thermogenic, caffeine and nicotine are thermogenic, etc. If you're not dosing up your protein shakes with cinnamon, spicing your chicken breasts heavily, drinking like a gallon of ice cold green tea or water every day, and considering taking caffeine supplements (risky if you don't want disturbed sleep) then you're approaching the whole concept of thermogenics wrong.

Now you can go out and buy a fat burner but if you're not trying to compound it with stuff you can basically do without spending any money or hardly any effort, you're just bending over and asking somebody to take your money.

For instance I wrote a post a long while back about the benefit of drinking very cold water if you think it's trivial.

Hades Wrote:

I keep a pitcher of water in the fridge and rotate it to the freezer once I get home from work, so after a half hour I can drink about two liters of ice-cold water.

Jamie Lewis at Chaos and Pain says that cold water has a thermogenic effect and can actually cause some fat loss. I'm working off the cuff here but it takes a calorie to raise one gram of water by one degree celsius, there's a thousand grams of water in a liter, so going from (say) 3 degrees celsius (ice water) to 37 degrees celsius (body temperature) would be 34 degrees celsius difference, or 34 calories per gram. This would make it 64 thousand calories.

Since food calories are actually kilocalories though, you're at 64 Calories of fat burned just by drinking water.

You can sit on the couch and watch reruns of Futurama while burning the same amount of fat as if you just jogged a mile, and all you have to do is get up every half hour or so and piss.

Look at that, 64 calories worth of fat burned just by drinking two liters of ice cold water.

Edit: If you've done all that and are seriously interested in drugs, an ECA stack or the cannibal series of fat burners on chaos and pain are the real deal for burning fat.

Can you drop some reasons why the Cannibal fat burner is best?

I have always shyed away from fat burners because it seems like a shortcut.

It seems to me that fat burners are all a cocktail of random shit that's supposed to burn fat + caffeine. Couldn't you achieve the same results over a longer period of time with increased cardio + diet?

[zatara]

1. Get your diet in order
2. Get your training in order.
3. Once the above two are perfect, you should be able to hit 10-12% bf while maintaining a relatively normal lifestyle (drinking moderately once a week, eating out once a week etc). Then maybe consider 'fat burners' to help push you over the edge. Albuterol/Clenbuterol/ECA stack all have their uses, and relatively minor sides. No point using them before you reach a point you can reach quite easily naturally with some hard work, though. They're something to push you that extra mile when you're plateauing.

All the commercial stuff is trash, basically just caffeine pills. You're far better off just counting calories correctly, which the vast majority of people fail to do.

[Hades]

(06-24-2015 01:33 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

Can you drop some reasons why the Cannibal fat burner is best?

I have always shyed away from fat burners because it seems like a shortcut.

It seems to me that fat burners are all a cocktail of random shit that's supposed to burn fat + caffeine. Couldn't you achieve the same results over a longer period of time with increased cardio + diet?

Not to shill for Chaos and Pain but the fat burners (cannibal claw and cannibal inferno) they're selling are pretty badass in terms of ingredients.

Cannibal claw itself is a thyroid fat burner so it doesn't contain any actual stimulants. It comes with a huge warning label that says "DO NOT EXCEED 6 WEEKS OF CONTINUOUS USE OR INHIBITED THYROID FUNCTION MAY RESULT". That's pretty much an admission of effectiveness.

Cannibal inferno is loaded with thermogenics, some of which I have listed earlier (cayenne pepper, that sort of thing) and a couple I haven't heard of. It even has caffeine and yohimbe so it could probably be taken instead of a preworkout.

Yes, more cardio and limiting carb intake will (over time) make you leaner. I think the biggest reason why fat burners are used is because even with tight diet control and enough activity, weight loss plateaus are inevitable. You can check out some of the reviews of fat burner products and find basically the same thing.

[redbeard]

Good advice, thanks.

Reason I ask is because I've reached one of those plateaus. I was 250 lbs. February 2014 after an injury and have slowly been taking it off. I now float between 200-205 and feel stuck.

I think that I'll aim to maintain for about a month. I averaged 220 for years before this, so I'm pretty happy about 205. I think I'll aim to maintain 205 for a while, make some strength gains, then maybe try cutting more in a month once I equilibrate at 205 better.

Thermogenics still seem a long way off for where I am with my goals.

[mogsy]

Fat burners are going to make a small difference if your diet is not up to scratch.

I'd look at diet, exercise and then supplements in that order.

[Northwest]

As stated above diet & exercise is the most important part.

Depending where you are located and based on its legality, I'd suggest ephedrine. Its worked well for myself and many people I know. It's also my understanding its illegal or hard to obtain in the US and I'm not sure about other countries. Theres some solid guides on the bodybuilding forums out there that are essentially all the same on how to use it.

My only suggestion is start slow incase you have adverse effects, and don't exceed 400mg caffeine per day while on it as some of these guides suggest doubling or tripling this dosage.

[Gorgiass]

(06-24-2015 12:16 PM)Virtus Wrote:  

The real deal is dnp but unless you learn all there is stay away as it kills. Clenbuterol also works well

Hadn't heard of this, sounds brutal but effective. WNB

x2 on the Clenbuterol though. I also used to use the original Hydroxycut that was banned, don't know if you can still buy the active ingredients elsewhere. Once stayed up for the better part of a week straight fueled by it, and lost a bunch of weight as a side effect. That was sooooome crash... These days I just eat right and exercise.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Yeah - they are some, which are bound to work. Personally I have only experimented with useful normal-day supplements, but at higher doses (RDAs are a joke).

The problem with those fat burners is that you can apply them only for a shorter time as some have high doses of herbs and caffeine which can strain your heart. You absolutely must not have a heart condition. And another important point is that many of them will in fact create greater hunger as they speed up your metabolism. Coffee without sugar for example is one such thing. You can drink plenty of it and will see fat being burned away if you couple it with exercise. But it will also impact your blood sugar level and you will experience hunger pangs.

So essentially you will need more willpower, but you have a chance to lose weight faster at some periods where you break through plateaus.

Personally I like the style and contents of the Grenade Thermo Detonator:



Gotta buy myself one of those babies to store my supplements in. Aside from the fun design the ingredients with decent herbs, amino acids and nutrients certainly can help you supplement your exercise routine. But don't let it fool yourself - it has massive doses of caffeine:

Supplement InformationPer 2 caps:
Green Tea500mg - CONTAINS CAFFEINE AS WELL
Bitter Orange Powder420mg
Caffeine225mg - PURE CAFFEINE
Cayenne200mg
Phenylalanine25mg
Green Coffee10mg - CAFFEINE AGAIN

My estimation is that you get some 350mg of caffeine - more than 1 liter of Red Bull - just without sugar. You should definitely take a high potency multi by Swanson, Now Foods or Youngevity in order to couple the aftereffects. Also you will experience strong hunger pangs occasionally.

[Phoenix]

GLL takes T3 and Testosterone, which he says is very effective.

[Captain Gh]

And if you're already a heavy coffee drinker like me and doesn't want to reduce your intake while you taking a fat burner, taking some Yohimbe is a nice alternative. You can get it from Ebay and it helps burn fat by blocking the A2 receptors that are mostly present in hard to lose spots such as Abs and lower back for us men. Yohimbe + caffeine + Dieting works really well for me.