[MidWest]

I've been following this story for a while. The Dominican government is set to deport most Haitians from the country in the next few days, whether they were born in the DR or not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/18/world/...rants.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worl...-haitians/

I know the country has had a history of Haitian immigrants and a bloody history that went back to the dictator Trujillo who ordered the slaughter of hundreds of Haitians in the 40s.


Thoughts on this?

[TheWastelander]

None of my business. If this is what the Dominican Republic's people want then that is on them.

[Fast Eddie]

Hmm, something tells me that Dominican Republic's loss will end up as America's gain.

I just hope that this much needed boost of diversity will be delivered straight to the wealthier parts of NYC and Silicon Valley (preferably Fuckerberg's block and environs). Those two places have a long track record of heroically calling for more of the ol' huddled masses yearning to be free, but have consistently struck out when it comes to actually landing the newcomers and getting them to settle there. I think its about time their luck turned.

Cleveland didn't win the NBA championship this year, but there is no reason at least SV and Manhattan can't break the curse and finally get some undocumented Americans to move in.

[Brodiaga]

Their house, their rules.

[Suits]

I somewhat pro-immigration. Not open immigration, but I think it's very civilized to let people who want to live in your country do so, if they meet certain standards and as long as the numbers entering don't lower the quality of life that you'll be able to continue to offer to both local born and immigrant people in the future.

So, while this pisses me off, I think that countries like the US, Canada and Britain should simply not let people immigrate from countries that are being dicks with their own immigration policies.

Of course, that would be punishing the people instead of those who make the decisions, but I'm OK with that.

This may be controversial, but I'd like for my own country to stop letting Chinese immigrate until China starts offering Canadians the same opportunities in China.

[MajorStyles]

(06-17-2015 09:34 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

I've been following this story for a while. The Dominican government is set to deport most Haitians from the country in the next few days, whether they were born in the DR or not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/18/world/...rants.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worl...-haitians/

I know the country has had a history of Haitian immigrants and a bloody history that went back to the dictator Trujillo who ordered the slaughter of hundreds of Haitians in the 40s.


Thoughts on this?

I live in the DR, so I can throw in my two cents - perhaps even a nickle.

Haitians do a lot of the grunt work around here, from selling gum, to cleaning windshields, to guarding apartment complexes. I am on fairly good terms with some of them. However, like all groups of immigrants, there are always a few bad apples that always spoil the lot. I imagine the government has honed in on a few of them, and is ready to send them westward.

The long and short of it is this - Haitians are too ingrained in Dominican culture to force a whole-scale removal. What is more likely is a removal of those who scooted here under dubious circumstances.

For what it's worth....I've noticed that the Western media has a knee-jerk narrative on this topic; Haitians must be in the right, because they are the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. The poverty must be the result of international racism (rather than their own corruption and mismanagement).

The reality is far more complex.

The issue for many working-class Dominicans can be boiled down to this:

1.) They don't make much ($400 a month, roughly). Thus, a contingent of Haitian immigrants is weakening the low monthly wage. That would piss off anybody, regardless of race, nationality or religion.

2.) Many Haitians do not assimilate, but rather, they hold on tightly to their cultural ways. The DR is not a place with self-enclosed barrios like the US, where cultures remain inclusive even after arrival. You are forced to immerse yourself in Dominican culture. So people who blatantly reject this are ultimately frowned upon.

3.) Many Dominicans feel that Haitians do not adhere to quality hygeine. For what it's worth, I have heard this same complaint made by Jamaincans against Haitians. Even though the DR is pretty dirty is spots (i.e. trash in the streets), people are still very proud of how they dress.

Of all these issues, I would say that the economic one is the strongest.

On a related note, it's interesting to watch the dynamics of Carribean politics. Several months back, the president of Grenada called the DR a racist country, due to its dealings with the Haitian immigrants. The ambassodor for the DR fired back, reminding him of all that the DR has done for the Haitian populus: foreign aid during the earthquake, access to school systems and hospitals, the ability to work here without a visa or, in some cases, without an ID. He also reminded him that the DR is 80% mulatto, so the race card was a weak hand to play.

I think it's a non-story. However, if it's true, they need to find two new security guards for the building I live in.

[Hotwheels]

Quote:

1.) They don't make much ($400 a month, roughly). Thus, a contingent of Haitian immigrants is weakening the low monthly wage. That would piss off anybody, regardless of race, nationality or religion.

2.) Many Haitians do not assimilate, but rather, they hold on tightly to their cultural ways. The DR is not a place with self-enclosed barrios like the US, where cultures remain inclusive even after arrival. You are forced to immerse yourself in Dominican culture. So people who blatantly reject this are ultimately frowned upon.

Sounds very similar to the majority of Mexicans in the US.

And yes, we should kick them out as well.

Won't ever happen though.

[2Wycked]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[Yeti]

For what it's worth, the Haitians whom I met in the DR were hard-working and nice. They also spoke Spanish. It makes me a little sad to think of them being sent back.

[MidWest]

(06-18-2015 01:52 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

Quote:

1.) They don't make much ($400 a month, roughly). Thus, a contingent of Haitian immigrants is weakening the low monthly wage. That would piss off anybody, regardless of race, nationality or religion.

2.) Many Haitians do not assimilate, but rather, they hold on tightly to their cultural ways. The DR is not a place with self-enclosed barrios like the US, where cultures remain inclusive even after arrival. You are forced to immerse yourself in Dominican culture. So people who blatantly reject this are ultimately frowned upon.

Sounds very similar to the majority of Mexicans in the US.

And yes, we should kick them out as well.

Won't ever happen though.

Donald Trump wants to kick them all out

Maybe you should vote for him

[Nascimento]

(06-18-2015 05:14 AM)Yeti Wrote:  

For what it's worth, the Haitians whom I met in the DR were hard-working and nice. They also spoke Spanish. It makes me a little sad to think of them being sent back.

This.

I made a Haitian friend while I was in the DR. Guy was nothing but genuine with me. Great lad.

In contrast, one afternoon in Santo Domingo I struck up a conversation with a young Dominican guy that was sitting on the same bench as me. We were both people-watching. We had a good chat about all things for about 30 minutes. Then he asked me for money.

It's not all of them, and it goes both ways I guess. Always some bad apples in the lot.

[Moma]

Parsley Exodus 2015?

[spokepoker]

Parsley?

[Bones707]

(06-18-2015 01:52 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

Quote:

1.) They don't make much ($400 a month, roughly). Thus, a contingent of Haitian immigrants is weakening the low monthly wage. That would piss off anybody, regardless of race, nationality or religion.

2.) Many Haitians do not assimilate, but rather, they hold on tightly to their cultural ways. The DR is not a place with self-enclosed barrios like the US, where cultures remain inclusive even after arrival. You are forced to immerse yourself in Dominican culture. So people who blatantly reject this are ultimately frowned upon.

Sounds very similar to the majority of Mexicans in the US.

And yes, we should kick them out as well.

Won't ever happen though.

^all that wouldn't happen if employers were punished for not complying with labor laws (hiring undocumented workers). Then Messicans wouldn't be coming and staying in México. But of course, blame it all on the beaners because it's easier and doesn't take much thought. It takes two to tango my cheesehead buddy.

And besides, Barry has been deporting Mexicans like crazy ever since he got into office. For a bit, he had that crazy bitch, Janet Napolitano (schemer for Arizona law) in Homeland Security. So your dreams are coming true.

[el mechanico]

If we deport all the mexicans I'm sure the millennials here with step right up to the plate and cover the jobs they'll leave behind.

[spokepoker]

They will. Well, most will. The outspoken problem glasses minority won't, cause those black plastic rimmed things are expensive now.

[Grange]

After they start paying double for low skill job services they might reconsider.

[Sonsowey]

You can read about "The Parsley Massacre", this sort of thing has happened before and will likely continue happening.

Haitians are worse off than Dominicans and so they naturally want to come live where its nicer. Dominicans are not doing so well themselves, but certainly do not want to drop down to Haitian living standards, and so do not want all those Haitians there. You can understand both groups easily. And so probably Haitians will continue coming and Dominicans will continue kicking some out periodically. So it goes...

[Bones707]

(06-18-2015 01:10 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

If we deport all the mexicans I'm sure the millennials here with step right up to the plate and cover the jobs they'll leave behind.

Not sure if they will. Lots of jobs those illegals have pays like shit. I have worked with illegals before when I worked in plumbing and those jobs always pay like shit and shitty conditions. If they paid better, then I'm sure native born people would jump in.

[Kabal]

I enjoy how Westerners react with surprise, shock, and even outrage when a country takes action to preserve its average level of human capital, if not improve it.

We are so acclimated to dysgenic welfare and illegal/low-skilled immigration practices that a country trying to keep low-skilled people out is completely jarring, like seeing an apple fall upwards from the ground into a tree.

Good for the Dominican government and the Dominican people. I am simultaneously happy for and envious of them.

[CactusCat589]

I'm thrilled to see a country saying "No more" and fixing their immigration problems. But, if these are legal immigrants from Haiti, that's not right. If they just walked into the fucking place border-crossing style like Mexicans with the US, then yeah, by all means expel them.

[speakeasy]

(06-18-2015 10:07 AM)MidWest Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 01:52 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

Quote:

1.) They don't make much ($400 a month, roughly). Thus, a contingent of Haitian immigrants is weakening the low monthly wage. That would piss off anybody, regardless of race, nationality or religion.

2.) Many Haitians do not assimilate, but rather, they hold on tightly to their cultural ways. The DR is not a place with self-enclosed barrios like the US, where cultures remain inclusive even after arrival. You are forced to immerse yourself in Dominican culture. So people who blatantly reject this are ultimately frowned upon.

Sounds very similar to the majority of Mexicans in the US.

And yes, we should kick them out as well.

Won't ever happen though.

Donald Trump wants to kick them all out

Maybe you should vote for him

If Trump becomes president I'm sneaking into Mexico.

[jariel]

I understand the rational arguments that Sonsowey and Major have presented because there is some truth in them, but this situation definitely has a racial element to it.

The Dominican government gave white Jews land, some cows, and a mule to come to the country at the same time it was committing mass murder against Haitians who couldn't pronounce "perejil".

Nearly 80 years later, the government is kicking them out, even those who have established themselves in the country legally, but isn't doing shit about the fact that thousands of its own people hop on yolas every month to enter Puerto Rico illegally, which often leads to them using the island as a stepping stone to getting to the U.S., surprise, illegally!

The hypocrisy is embarrassing.

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

(06-18-2015 12:20 AM)MajorStyles Wrote:  

2.) Many Haitians do not assimilate, but rather, they hold on tightly to their cultural ways. The DR is not a place with self-enclosed barrios like the US, where cultures remain inclusive even after arrival. You are forced to immerse yourself in Dominican culture. So people who blatantly reject this are ultimately frowned upon.

In urban centres you don't really notice this with second-generation immigrants and so on but in some rural areas and especially obscure bateyes populated almost exclusively by Haitians you'll meet Dominican-born people who only speak Haitian Creole having only a basic command of the Spanish language.

[Bones707]

Vice covering the situation in the DR.

http://youtu.be/SGQq5ej_Jok