Quote: (06-10-2015 08:39 AM)space Wrote:
Quote: (06-09-2015 09:36 AM)Phoenix Wrote:
Yes 1 cell. Birth is just a change in your physical location. It doesn't alter whether or not you are a person.
I sympathise with your point of view (while not necessarily agreeing with it). If you feel that way then these figures must be harrowing.
But what would happen if you impregnated some random girl you were seeing? I'm curious, because this is a forum about meeting and banging chicks, and accidents will happen, right?
Accidents happen a lot less than people think, in my experience. If it was that easy to knock a chick up, every raw dogger on this forum would have a little scattering of kids across the world. So you typically have to make some pretty bold moves to get a girl pregnant (or she has to make them for you).
But as for me, I've thought of this a million times. I talked a girlfriend into aborting about 15 years ago and regretted it instantly, for moral reasons alone, and ever since I've proceeded with the knowledge that it would never be an option again.
And what it comes down to is that if you want the benefits of being a playboy, well, you just have to deal with the consequences of it when shit happens. Lifestyle choices always have consequences, and this whole idea that you can have your cake and eat it too is one of the ugliest characteristics of modern-day humans - we should leave it with the mainstream where it belongs, as far as I'm concerned.
Now, on some level maybe some guys who are anti-abortion can rationalize that a kid out there without your fathering is still better than making a choice to kill another human. I'd say that's probably true, but I still can't get on that train. I think that if you have any pride at all, you should handle business and take care of your own kid. So at least for me, disappearing completely is out.
Is it possible you'll knock up some dumb twat who doesn't deserve your time and money? And end up getting stuck carrying a burden you didn't ask for? Of course it is.
That's life. It has consequences, and no amount of sugar-coated abortions will ever change that fact. Sometimes you get some floozy pregnant.
The whole "impregnated some random girl you were seeing" makes it seem like a guy is some kind of victim who never could have seen the possiblity coming - that's the problem with the whole notion. I'm all for enjoying life, and I'm certainly not knocking the lifestyle embraced by most of us here, but people want to enjoy the perks of living in the moment without the responsiblities it invites.
That's just unrealistic. We all have our choice of who to stick our dick in and who not to - surely if we fancy ourselves as grown men we can also accept that things might not go as planned. Maybe we don't want to give much thought to who we stick in and just want any warm hole we can find. Great.
But then using that as grounds to rationalize abortion is just lazy, dishonest, and immoral. You can't just decide abortion doesn't go against natural law because believing that makes it convenient for your lifestyle.
I say ask yourself what you really believe. Down deep. Take time to actually think about it and reflect on it - don't just check your selfish wants and desires or ego attachments to the image of the man you want to be and then decide whether it's okay based on that. I suggest some serious soul searching here because if the paradigm society has given you is wrong, you might decide it's a pretty serious issue to be wrong about.
Fortunately, there are things you can do about your odds, even if you don't see abortion as an option.
One, be more selective about who you fuck - I definitely haven't always done that, especially when I was drinking. You might miss out on a purely sexual bang from time to time, but at least you'll know you won't be completely screwed if you do knock her up. Two, just be careful about the decisions you make when you do bang women you shouldn't. Also nothing I've managed every time, but it's certainly not an impossible task to take some precautions. None of this is rocket science.
And if you do knock up someone you shouldn't have, well, you don't have to marry her or even be with her just because she's having your kid. Make sure the kid is taken care of and try to have a relationship with it if possible. If she makes that impossible, you could always withdraw, or,if she's a bad mom, take the damn kid away from her (if even possible) and raise it right.
Life is full of shitty turns of the cards, so you just deal with it. And the thing about shitty turns of the cards is they're hardly ever as bad as you imagine they'll be. There are parents all over the world who didn't mean to have kids and interrupt their self-involved life of sex, drugs, and rock n' roll that are doing just fine. Hell, I know men who have knocked up the devil incarnated (with boobs) and they are alive and kicking and still doing okay.
It's funny how humans are so separated from our own Nature that we find something as routine as accidentally breeding to be so frightening that we have to murder fetuses in such appalling numbers before they get big enough to be recognizably human.
And as for the practical benefits of abortion, which I can agree have proven to be real, using that type of reasoning with someone who believes an abortion is the killing of a human is like arguing (to many of them) that killing off the elderly would lower the cost of health care - in other words, the arguments will never work no matter how sound they are on a "practical' level. When someone sees something as morally or spiritually reprehensible, no amount of practical reasoning is going to change their mind - which is why pro-lifers and pro-choicers will never have a productive discussion. They're each having a conversation in a completely different universe.
Such a person - a person such as me - would say that there are other solutions to these problems that abortion supposedly takes care of. Paths that we as a society are too cowardly to take. Because we want a quicky and easy solution instead of having to work and make sacrifices.
Returning to the original question, whether you knock up some hoodrat or not, your life will go on, and I'd say most people out there have just about as much chance to live out their Hollywood-fueled dreams either way - which is to say they probably won't live them at all, and the abortion just delays their inevitable future.
Or maybe they will realize their dreams. But as I see it, a kid will play a very small role in your will and ability to make other shit happen in your life. It'll either become another excuse or it won't, usually depending on who you are already.
Beyond All Seas
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
