[Luckystar]

For many years, it was a Lebron James lovefest, and overnight its turned into a lot of hate at times. There are many strong opinions about his game, his mindset, his brand, and about 'The Decision'.

On the one hand, he seems to have it all (money, global icon, women, Miami, etc...and once the Heat beat the Mavs, he'll have a championship).

On the other hand, he doesn't have as much respect as you'd expect him to have (from fans, media, and NBA legends). Much of the argument centers around how much of an alpha he is.

Since the forum has pretty strong opinions on what Alpha is...I ask...Lebron James....Alpha or Beta?

As a massive NBA junkie, I'm interested to hear your opinions.

[hoops330]

(06-08-2011 06:47 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  

For many years, it was a Lebron James lovefest, and overnight its turned into a lot of hate at times. There are many strong opinions about his game, his mindset, his brand, and about 'The Decision'.

On the one hand, he seems to have it all (money, global icon, women, Miami, etc...and once the Heat beat the Mavs, he'll have a championship).

On the other hand, he doesn't have as much respect as you'd expect him to have (from fans, media, and NBA legends). Much of the argument centers around how much of an alpha he is.

Since the forum has pretty strong opinions on what Alpha is...I ask...Lebron James....Alpha or Beta?

As a massive NBA junkie, I'm interested to hear your opinions.

I was waiting for his name to pop up on this forum. First, let me explain my background. I am from NE Ohio, about 15 minutes outside of Akron. I used to go and watch Lebron play in high school all the time. Everyone in the area would talk about how he would go straight to the NBA but the national media still hadn't picked up on him to the extent that they would. Ohio was in love with Lebron. Then, he got the Sports Illustrated cover and ESPN televised some of Akron St-V's games nationally and we were even more proud to call him our own. Today, the media feeds the story but to really and truly understand it you have to be from Ohio.

Nine out of ten people I know hate Lebron and wish the worst on him but I find that a little extreme. Obviously I was extremely upset that he left but I cannot blame him. I'd like to see Lebron get a ring but choosing to do so with Wade and Bosh is a beta move and thats why I hope Dallas pulls through (the bars here in Ohio are cheering for Dallas like they're our own team). IMO he is still the most dominant player in the game but he lacks the cutthroat mentality that Kobe has and Jordan had. Note, I think he is the best player in the game and not the best winner, as an NBA junkie I'm sure you understand what I mean. We will never see another physical specimen like Lebron for 100 years. To be that big, that strong, that athletic, and that fast is mind blowing. I don't think that he wanted to live up to the Jordan comparisons. I think he sees himself more as a Magic Johnson and wants to win his championships as that type of player.
To answer your question, Lebron is physically Alpha and mentally Beta...if that makes any sense. His physical presence and the way he carries himself and the way he plays the game, he is unstoppable, a complete alpha male. But, he doesn't have that same alpha swag when it comes to his mental game. He has a tendency to be soft, a baby, and to shy away from a challenge, and he does so at his own choice. He was so used to being praised and the best as he grew up that when he is confronted with a difficult situation, sometimes he will accept the challenge and other times he will back down. I'm interested to hear everyone elses opinion on this since I am obviously slighly biased.

[Dash Global]

Complete BETA.

not even debatable really....

[raliv]

What this video if you haven't already. Jordan calling out Lebron.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEVCjUG1Mww

Michael Jordan was the premier alpha athlete of his time and he just made Lebron look like a bitch in that video. Athletes have always been dependent on the fans: the people paying to see him and support him play. When Lebron dissed his entire city publicly, he lost the support of the fans across the nation.

I guess the same can be said about alphas. We love them when they make us happy, but when we see them abuse their power and hurt someone weak, we will turn on them.

I hope the Mavs win and Lebron never gets a ring. Such is life. You reap what you sow.

[MrM27]

[quote] (06-08-2011 07:21 PM)hoops330 Wrote:  

[quote='Luckystar' pid='64117' dateline='1307576862']
To answer your question, Lebron is physically Alpha and mentally Beta...if that makes any sense. His physical presence and the way he carries himself and the way he plays the game, he is unstoppable, a complete alpha male. But, he doesn't have that same alpha swag when it comes to his mental game. He has a tendency to be soft, a baby, and to shy away from a challenge, and he does so at his own choice.[/quote]

That is beautiful about Lebron. He actively chooses these situations. I love basketball and this is the missing analysis in all of the media babble over Lebron in the last year (post-Decision). Bill Simmons mentions Lebron's lack of "Jordan's killer instinct", and that is as close as a sportswriter has come to calling him out in alpha terms. Lebron's been given the gift of alpha physical features with the mental capacity of a beta (blame the mom who abandoned him?). No alpha would join up with his greatest rival who has something he doesnt, a ring. No alpha would share the spotlight and be cool with it. No alpha would be upstaged on their craft's greatest stage, be called out on it publicly, then follow up that puss out with a bigger puss out. I think he wears the alpha's jacket to cover his beta core. He loves the luxuries he gets from his abilities, but doesn't want the pressure. Damn, he doesn't have one post move, and if he did, he'd be unstoppable given the difficulties he poses in matchups and his vision & passing ability out of a double team. He reminds me more of a teen TV star who is a product of SI & ESPN.

His claims of being the best player in the game will ring hollow when Wade holds up the Finals MVP trophy.

[rudebwoy]

Alpha - there is nothing Beta about the man. So he chose to play for another team, he did his time in Cleveland and they did not bring any quality players to support him. Yes maybe the style and manner he did it was a bit over the top. Other players in the past have always gotten together and decided to play on a particular team to win a ring(just maybe not so public).
The man is a freak, specimen and yes the most dominant player in the league.
How did the Cavaliers do this season??

[mikeymike]

(06-08-2011 08:35 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Alpha - there is nothing Beta about the man. So he chose to play for another team, he did his time in Cleveland and they did not bring any quality players to support him. Yes maybe the style and manner he did it was a bit over the top. Other players in the past have always gotten together and decided to play on a particular team to win a ring(just maybe not so public).
The man is a freak, specimen and yes the most dominant player in the league.
How did the Cavaliers do this season??

how does his sporting ability make him Alpha, he can ball and he's a physical specimen it doesn't mean he's Alpha. Wade is infinitely more Alpha than Lebron, Wade wants the ball, Wade has the swagger, when the games on the line if you're Alpha you take the ball, Brons always come across the reluctant leader, the guy who has the talent so he has to take charge but it's not in his character.

[AJ]

I think the difference between James and Jordan is that

James was coddled his whole life and just doesn't have that fire that jordan had. Perhaps there are stories about how James got cut or beaten down and then came back stronger than before... but I doubt it. Yet in Jordan's history there are many stories from high school till his last year. That man had a chip on his shoulder and would not stop. A similar example are some of the SEAL training stories out there. In a given group they would have pro athletes, olympians, and macho men. However, usually those guys would be the first to quit and it was because they've never failed in their lives. The ones left surviving would be the mentally strong ones. The ones who've learned to pick themselves up after failing time and time again.

In my opinion, Alpha and Beta is such crude terminology and the debates kind of stupid - it's like arguing who is smarter or stronger. Remember, that on any given team minus a handful Lebron would be the top dog. If you put Lebron in any room with anyone on this forum I'd bet he'd attract all the attention and lead. The real tragedy here is that he was blessed with ridiculous talent and isn't using it all which is a bit of an insult to any fan who has dreamed of playing in the NBA.

He reminds me a lot of vince carter. Incredible talent but so complacent.

[Brian]

he's alpha, although not the highest of the alphas.

here's the thing w/basketball - some days you have it and some days you dont. this can depend on a variety of things - injuries, matchups, confidence, etc. i think Dwayne Wade is a better basketball player and last night he was fucking awesome. people are saying Lebron crumbled down the stretch or disappeared during crunch time but he just deferred to the better player last night. thats why he went to Miami. in the Chicago series he was awesome and DWade deferred to him. part of the quality of a good basketball player is that he knows when to let others take over and Lebron did that last night.

[txbeachbum]

1000% Beta, I can smell the fear on him a mile away, just cause you have $$ doesn't make you a Alpha, take away the $$, fame and he would be be a dusty dude walking around ohio.

Case in point, another beta with $$$, if tiger woods wasn't world famous golfer he would get no play, he had millions and still felt the need to get acceptance by his peers by getting married (to a fucking nanny at that).

A real alpha is a alpha with or with the $$ doesn't matter, like a sean connery.

Lebron is trash, boring player. How they call you the King but you not even the best player on your team. wtf?

[blurb]

Alpha is a man with whom a lot of women want to sleep with. A lot of women want Lebron James. Therefore, he is alpha. End of story. Nothing else matters.

[CJ]

(06-08-2011 07:21 PM)hoops330 Wrote:  

We will never see another physical specimen like Lebron for 100 years. To be that big, that strong, that athletic, and that fast is mind blowing.

Dwight Howard? He doesn't have the handles LeBron does, but he's bigger, stronger and just as athletic.

(06-08-2011 10:04 PM)AJ Wrote:  

James was coddled his whole life and just doesn't have that fire that jordan had.

If you put Lebron in any room with anyone on this forum I'd bet he'd attract all the attention and lead. The real tragedy here is that he was blessed with ridiculous talent and isn't using it all which is a bit of an insult to any fan who has dreamed of playing in the NBA.

He reminds me a lot of vince carter. Incredible talent but so complacent

He reminds me more of T-Mac, as pre-injury plagued Carter is a different player, but those are all good points.

You can't exactly measure LeBron like you do normal people, because from a very young age he got everything he wanted. Ironically it's his sense of entitlement that has kept him from obtaining true greatness on the basketball court and taking his place in the pantheon of the greatest to ever play the game, alongside Michael, Magic, Mr. Russell, Wilt, The Big O and so on.

Regardless of how you feel about him on the court, the man is most likely alpha. How many of you have actually hung out with him off the court? Or even seen what he's like away from the game of basketball? Oh, none of you? Of course I haven't either, but IIRC, it was Bill Simmons who had an article about seeing LeBron at a club in Vegas, and he had a near Jordan-aura with the crowd he generated.

Take it for what it's worth, but off the basketball court the guy can get anything he wants, when he wants, sounds pretty alpha to me.

[Agent_GQ]

Among the normal populace (picture everyone at a club and LeBron walking in) LeBron is alpha. Fame, money, extreme height, physical presence, great at what he does, etc. he is more alpha than anyone on this board.

In the 'ring of greats' (all the past and present NBA legends) and among current NBA players, he is beta. He teamed up with a rival and was too afraid to lead his own team. He'll get some rings before it is said and done. However, in the eyes of many they will be 'tainted' rings because he took the easy way out.

So he is both alpha and beta, albeit in different circumstances/groups of people.

[txbeachbum]

$$ and fame does not make you alpha....

"The term "alpha male" is sometimes applied to humans to refer to a man who is powerful through his courage and a competitive, goal-driven, "take charge" attitude. With their bold approach and confidence "alpha males" are often described as charismatic. While "alpha males" are often overachievers and recognized for their leadership qualities, their aggressive tactics and competitiveness can also lead to resentment by others."

[blurb]

Quote:

Off the basketball court the guy can get anything he wants, when he wants, sounds pretty alpha to me.

Quote:

Among the normal populace (picture everyone at a club and LeBron walking in) LeBron is alpha. Fame, money, extreme height, physical presence, great at what he does, etc. he is more alpha than anyone on this board.

While we're talking about LeBron, does anyone think that Obama is alpha?

[AJ]

Quote:

Regardless of how you feel about him on the court, the man is most likely alpha. How many of you have actually hung out with him off the court? it was Bill Simmons who had an article about seeing LeBron at a club in Vegas, and he had a near Jordan-aura with the crowd he generated.

Take it for what it's worth, but off the basketball court the guy can get anything he wants, when he wants, sounds pretty alpha to me.

So the last thing I'd like to put up is....

ESPN had put up an article of LeBron's bday but then quickly took it down under the suspicious pretense that "it was going in for more edits". It never appeared again. In the article a writer follows LeBron around and reports that "the more you hang around LeBron the more you realize he's a child wrapped in a 6'8 260 lb frame."

This coupled with the fact that he makes poor PR decisions often (the decision, shoulder checking coach), was constantly coddled, and is a NBA player makes me suspect the dude is slow in the head. Kobe behaved better but similar until his 30's when he finally learned to be a little more mature - remember him ratting out shaq like a kid when he raped the girl?

The aura you describe when you meet him is celebrity. But you have to realize, he is only good at putting a ball in the hoop. He never had to overcome adversity or be classy. i.e he doesn't have character. Celebrity is nice but over time anyone will become used to it (see ESPN reporter) and see what really lies underneath.

Who knows if he grows up maybe he'll grow up. But judging by MJs induction speech making fun of his kids... I'm doubtful.

That being said, as hoops fan I'd still be awed if I saw him.

[Moma]

I don't know if I have enough personal information on Lebron to determine if he is alpha or not.

However, from what I gather, I think he is smart and a lot of times you guys seem to overlook logic in this need to always seem to be the one in charge.
Sometimes, you have to step up and sometimes you need to step down.

You guys said that he had it harder than Jordan..Jordan had two parents to bring him up. Lebron is the offspring of a single teen mother, that shyt eventually comes back to bite a lot of celebs in the ass because teen mums are generally immmature.
So growing up with an absent teen mum can be a huge obstacle, see all the train wreck celebs with such upbringings.

Lebron teamed up with Dwayne Wade because it was a smart move. Who wants to stay with a team that lets Delonte fcuk their moms?
Who cares if Wade got a ring before him? He hadn't gotten one since. In fact, since they won the last ring, I don't know if they even got deeper in the playoffs than the Cavs did.

A lot of people are jeering Bosh for leaving Toronto..the same how Cleveland were jocking Le-Brawn..why?
Your playing career is very limited as a basketball player. I believe if one were to play for a decade, they would actually be above norm.
He was drafted in 2003..7 years down..he is more than halfway towards retirement and you give him scrubs?
I would have flown the coop in a fcuking jiffy, you'll see alpha if you try and stop me..
Same shyt got me to get the fcuk out of UK. Cats were looking at me as a traitor and beta..but now I'm piping lizards and getting my salad tossed on the mere trace of British accent while they are busy toasting some snaggly toothed dragon in Nandos...who is laughing now?

A lot of you Alphas are looking elsewhere for women..why not improve your game to a point where you NEVER need to travel to get women..they travel to your city to get you. Your Russians, Swedes, Latins..etc?

Because that is stupid. Being Alpha doesn't mean you can change beliefs and nature. It just means you operate on your own terms.

Who cares if Wade gets the MVP? You can't have two guys getting the ball at the same time. Did you guys even think the Heat would make it to the Finals when those guys signed up? I bet you Creflo Dollars you didn't rule them in as even contenders..yet here they aare.

Was Allen Iverson alpha? I certainly think so. He was also stupid. He was alpha on most of his teams..as soon as he was asked to step off the bench (see Memphis) he vanished...no rings, just a legacy of playing hard and giving the GOAT the double whip.

Fcuk all that, this is an era of playing smart. The smart man ALWAYS wins. You go hard all the time, it means you are incapable of adjusting your play.
One plays the game of basketball to win. Alpha is for the streets and the gym. Timmy D is as soft as they ever come yet he has four rings.
Alpha is being logical.

If a lizard talks shyt to me, I wanna knock her block off or cut her down with some caustic shyt. But this forum and other peers have taught me to operate with logic and not with emotion.
If I open a lizard and she tells me to fcuk off or gives me a fake number, an alpha response is to not give a shyt.
A semi beta response is to say something sarky or knock her down.

Same applies for basketball. The aim is to win. Lebron strikes me as an intelligent guy and mature for his age.
We talk of Jordan's alpha-ness. However Jordan had women issues, resulting in divorcing Juanita..50/50 split..so she gets 150 mill?

Whatever Lebron is doing (and I know he's tapping skezzies on the side) I haven't heard a peep from his ends. No lizard is tapping needlessly into his cake.
I can't say the same for Gloria however...

[Luckystar]

For the record, I think LBJ has the memorable type of game we all expect of him tonight. I say triple double, a dominating two way performance....I think it's about time.

I will be surprised if it doesn't happen. Even more if the Heat lose Game 5 tonight.

[Caramel Communist]

LBJ is pure alpha..anybody doubting this has no clue as to what a true Alpha is...it ain't being a fucking Kharl Drogo and "mounting the world" one whore at a time. It's about establishing persona, accumulating wealth, and having the power to move things culturally and economically. Lebron has personal goal to be a billion dollar brand by the end of the decade and he is well on his way at $48 million made last year. Keep in mind this is all without a ring, dunk title, or any other defining moment....

You have to understand something when ppl from Ohio bash LBJ...they hate him not for leaving but for confirming what the world already know..Cleveland is a vast shithole built on failed economic, environmental, social and education policy's...I could go on and on....
-lake erie caught on fire....think about that water caught on fire
-the city went bankrupt in the 70's
-high crime rate
-largest population decline for a decade
-highest foreclosure rates
-highest unemployment rates
-segregated like a southern city...blacks on the east. whites on the westside/burbs and they do not intermingle like in other cities...
-education system ranked on par with 3rd world countries...
-a serial killer murdered 11 women..bodies decomposed for months because the police thought it was a butcher leftovers..it took a women but naked and bleeding on the street for them to investigate the killer. Even though this guy had a record for rape and murder...

So they're mad at him because he wouldn't hallucinate with them...he recognized that to achieve his financial aspirations he needed to leave and be in environment that was productive, exciting, ambitious, goal oriented, beautiful...the list of adjectives/adverbs could go on...Plus, he ain't thinking about the U.S. market...he's thinking about his merchandise sales and China and champions sell in China...ask Kobe/Jordan...that's alpha logic...

[CJ]

Ok if this is true:

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2..._and_r.php

And Rashard Lewis is banging LeBron's chick, then I was way off and he's as beta as it gets.

[txbeachbum]

(06-09-2011 04:33 PM)Caramel Communist Wrote:  

LBJ is pure alpha..anybody doubting this has no clue as to what a true Alpha is...it ain't being a fucking Kharl Drogo and "mounting the world" one whore at a time. It's about establishing persona, accumulating wealth, and having the power to move things culturally and economically. Lebron has personal goal to be a billion dollar brand by the end of the decade and he is well on his way at $48 million made last year. Keep in mind this is all without a ring, dunk title, or any other defining moment....

Accumulated wealth wtf he plays basketball he didn't build a fucking business or empire he went from broke to rich in a few days, move things culturally .... he hasn't moved a damn thing culturally.

Alpha is about being a leader, and I'm not just talking about on the court, but in life.

You give the most beta bitch made guy on this board 48 million a year and make him famous and he would get treated the same way as lebron.

That's why people follow him around, he has no value outside of basketball.

Anybody who thinks having $$ makes you alpha sounds like one of his groupie girls.

I'm not a basketball fan of anytime so I care less who he plays for or wins what.

Lebron is bitch made..not self made!!


To prove my point look at his current fiance which is his long time girlfriend and see what type of woman he attracted BEFORE he went pro
I wouldn't even date her.

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Savannah+Br...YOF69cbJ4-

And thats in a swimsuit..cmon are you serious.

[Moma]

(06-09-2011 08:03 PM)txbeachbum Wrote:  

(06-09-2011 04:33 PM)Caramel Communist Wrote:  

LBJ is pure alpha..anybody doubting this has no clue as to what a true Alpha is...it ain't being a fucking Kharl Drogo and "mounting the world" one whore at a time. It's about establishing persona, accumulating wealth, and having the power to move things culturally and economically. Lebron has personal goal to be a billion dollar brand by the end of the decade and he is well on his way at $48 million made last year. Keep in mind this is all without a ring, dunk title, or any other defining moment....

Accumulated wealth wtf he plays basketball he didn't build a fucking business or empire he went from broke to rich in a few days, move things culturally .... he hasn't moved a damn thing culturally.

Alpha is about being a leader, and I'm not just talking about on the court, but in life.

You give the most beta bitch made guy on this board 48 million a year and make him famous and he would get treated the same way as lebron.

No, they wouldn't. Look at Charlie Sheen. The guy has mo money and I see him as a twat. Bill Gates has super paper and mo clout than most men and he comes across as beta. So it has little to do with just the money, it's money plus how the person carries themselves.

(06-09-2011 08:03 PM)txbeachbum Wrote:  

To prove my point look at his current fiance which is his long time girlfriend and see what type of woman he attracted BEFORE he went pro
I wouldn't even date her.

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Savannah+Br...YOF69cbJ4-

And thats in a swimsuit..cmon are you serious.

She is also the mother of his children. So do you date women based on looks or character? Most of the NBA guys usually wifey up the women that were down with them before they made it. Those are the women that they are most likely to trust.

You don't need to marry the trophy piece when you have money because you have many other at your disposal.
It's the one who has your back.

But you are right, it's hard to really gauge Lebron on alpha, we don't really know him beside what the media portrays. The same goes for Chuck Norris, Charlie Sheen and those other dweebs.

[rudebwoy]

Trust me tall black dudes with physiques like his do not have trouble with women. He is ALPHA and he tapped Maria Sharapova, so all this other nonsense about his leadership and behaviour on the court is garbage.

[txbeachbum]

(06-09-2011 11:11 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Trust me tall black dudes with physiques like his do not have trouble with women. He is ALPHA and he tapped Maria Sharapova, so all this other nonsense about his leadership and behaviour on the court is garbage.

Trust me, I am tall (not 6'8) but 6'4" black dude 265 and getting women has never been a problem for me, BUT he wouldn't be banging Maria Sharapova if he wasn't famous, plain and simple.

But enough with this debate, its pointless...

[Luckystar]

Considering he did get the triple double, it was very uninspiring. Does he know it's the Finals?