[Enigma]

Quote:

The video, recorded in August 2013, was released by Dover police after a federal judge ruled last week that it was no longer considered confidential. The judge’s ruling came in a lawsuit filed on behalf of the suspect by the American Civil Liberties Union.

Recorded by another officer’s dashboard camera, the video shows Dover Cpl. Thomas Webster IV kicking Lateef Dickerson after Dickerson gets down on his hands and knees in response to commands to get on the ground.
Dickerson, 30, was knocked unconscious and suffered a broken jaw, police said in a news release Monday after Webster was charged.

Webster, 41, was arrested Monday and placed on unpaid leave after a grand jury indicted him for second-degree assault. A previous grand jury declined to indict Webster in March 2014, and the U.S. Attorney’s Office, after reviewing the case, found no violation of Dickerson’s civil rights.
The ACLU subsequently sued Dover police on Dickerson’s behalf.

“We believe that the video demonstrates the need for large-scale reform of the Dover Police Department, specifically improvements to their use of force and internal affairs practices, and supervision of their officers,” said Kathleen MacRae, executive director of the ACLU of Delaware.

“The people of Dover have a right to know about this incident and deserve a dialogue with law enforcement about how they can create a safe and equitable Dover community for all.”

Webster and a second officer encountered Dickerson while responding to a fight at a local service station possibly involving someone with a gun. Court records show that Dickerson has a long criminal history. He was arrested by Dover police last July after a traffic stop for expired tags and was charged with DUI and several weapons charges, including possession of a firearm by a person prohibited, carrying a concealed deadly weapon and receiving a stolen firearm.

Webster’s attorney, James Liguori, said once the dashcam video from Webster’s own patrol car and audio from the dispatch center come out, “everybody’s going to be satisfied that no crime was committed.”
“They’ve only seen half the movie.”

The president of the Central Delaware Branch of the NAACP criticized the police department’s decision to release the video, saying he feared it could lead to unrest before his group has had a chance to meet with members of the community.

“This premature release I don’t believe sends the right message, and it places unnecessary risk on members of the community,” said La Mar Gunn.
Gunn said the release of the video was an attempt by police to “control the narrative.”

Police said they had not received any tangible threats of violence, but that they had notified store owners and local schools that the video was being released.

“This is just us being pre-emptive. … It’s obviously a concern with the lawlessness that we’ve seen across the country,” said Lt. Jason Pires, the police department’s patrol unit commander.

Mayor Robin Christiansen said at a hastily arranged news conference that the city will honor the First Amendment rights of citizens to protest.
“But I must assure the members of our community that lawlessness and violence will not be tolerated,” he said.

Webster was placed on paid leave in November 2013 pending an internal investigation and a review of the case by then-Attorney General Beau Biden’s office, which took the case to a grand jury but failed to get an indictment against Webster.

Police have said they “acted accordingly” after an internal investigation found that Webster’s action did not comply with department policy, and he returned to patrol duty in June 2014.

Attorney General Matt Denn, who took office in January, reviewed the case last week and instructed prosecutors to present it again to a grand jury.

Besides for the obvious kick to the face, notice the usual escalation by the police. The suspect immediately puts his hands up, but is only given seconds to respond to the multiple officers shouting at him before one tries to tackle him from behind.

Then when he doesn't lower himself to the ground fast enough for them, he's again being shouted at. The police are instigating the situation from beginning to end on someone who is moving slowly and showing no signs of aggression.

Also, notice how the "good" cop doesn't even flinch when his partner kicks a defenseless man in the face. You've got to assume this is just another day on the job for these fine men.

[mikado]

Make a general thread about policemen suspected of undeserved brutality, like the male student-female teacher sex one

[kbell]

I don't think that's a rough area too like Baltimore. I hope he loses his job for this and gets some jail time for assault.

[Atlanta Man]

(05-09-2015 08:39 AM)kbell Wrote:  

I don't think that's a rough area too like Baltimore. I hope he loses his job for this and gets some jail time for assault.

It messes with me because I do not know what else he could have done not to be kicked like that. He did not run, did not talk back, did not raise his voice, did not make any sudden movements, he just followed the officers commands just like I would do. And now he has a broken jaw and a concussion? Keep in mind, no camera= false incident report, medical bills, and a criminal conviction for obeying officer commands to the letter. Even with the footage the first grand jury did not move forward with the indictment.....strange world.

[IvanDrago]

Just doing my job sir.

[Cattle Rustler]

Anti-trace in 3...2...1.....

[Dr. Howard]

'bad cops, bad cops'

[AntiTrace]

(05-09-2015 04:10 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Anti-trace in 3...2...1.....

Dude deserved it, he should have submitted faster.

[DeusEX]

I worked with the guy many years ago. It's a shame but he has had numerous chances to clean up his act. He deserves what is coming.

[jariel]

Like I said before, shit like this is the reason nobody cries when they cross the wrong one and end up pushing up daisies.

[Dr. Howard]

(05-09-2015 07:56 PM)DeusEX Wrote:  

I worked with the guy many years ago. It's a shame but he has had numerous chances to clean up his act. He deserves what is coming.

The amount of times "oh yeah I know that guy" has popped up on this forum related to various incidents amazes me.

[Enigma]

(05-09-2015 07:02 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Make a general thread about policemen suspected of undeserved brutality, like the male student-female teacher sex one

Apples to oranges. How many student/teacher sex threads have gone 50 pages, like the Ferguson thread (not to mention its offshoots)? Or even 10 pages like the Baltimore thread?

Why don't we have one Muslim Thread, one Race Thread, one Feminism Thread, one Politics Thread, etc. as well?

Hell, there are more threads on celebrity gossip than there are on the police.

But no, talking about what Muslims do halfway across the world has more relevance than what police do domestically to US citizens, right?

How about this... you stick to your Muslim/race threads, and I'll stick to talking about what I want to talk about.

[mikado]

(05-10-2015 07:38 AM)Enigma Wrote:  

(05-09-2015 07:02 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Make a general thread about policemen suspected of undeserved brutality, like the male student-female teacher sex one

Apples to oranges. How many student/teacher sex threads have gone 50 pages, like the Ferguson thread (not to mention its offshoots)? Or even 10 pages like the Baltimore thread?

Why don't we have one Muslim Thread, one Race Thread, one Feminism Thread, one Politics Thread, etc. as well?

Hell, there are more threads on celebrity gossip than there are on the police.

But no, talking about what Muslims do halfway across the world has more relevance than what police do domestically to US citizens, right?

How about this... you stick to your Muslim/race threads, and I'll stick to talking about what I want to talk about.

First, calm down.

I was not suggesting it in a bad way. It was more like instead of having different threads scattered, make a big one where all the evidence and stories related to police brutality would figure, giving us more arguments and insights.

Why are you talking about Muslim threads? Who talked about Muslims?

It's incredible that you are derailing your own thread. First time I see this on the forum.

[Enigma]

^ Saying "do this" with no context or explanation does not come across as a suggestion but rather a dismissive statement. If that's not the way you meant it, then simply make that clarification so we can move on, instead of following up with more dismissive and sarcastic language.

I've already pointed out why I disagree with your basic premise, which you failed to address in your follow up, so I'm not going to go back and forth with the petty bickering. "Muslims" (along with the other topics I brought up) was quite obviously used as an analogy, which you're purposefully taking out of context to avoid having a real discussion.

[mikado]

Chill out man.
If you asked me what I meant BEFORE bickering and starting drama, then I would have given my answer, and THEN you'd have your clarification.
Everyone can notice that I did not start any drama, nor used snarky remarks. Things that you exclusively did. You get petty, then say you are not going to resort to petty bickering?


Now get back to the topic of the thread please. Which is police brutality. That I do agree to discuss.

[Sherman]

"He was arrested by Dover police last July after a traffic stop for expired tags and was charged with DUI and several weapons charges, including possession of a firearm by a person prohibited, carrying a concealed deadly weapon and receiving a stolen firearm."

Why does the video say he was "innocent"? According to the above, he was carrying a stolen firearm if it was on his body at the time. The cops were informed he had a firearm. The cop clearly screamed at him to get down on the ground. I tested it myself, and from the time the cop gave the command I had plenty of time to get to the ground. Not following the command and moving slowly is passive-aggressive resistance. While he was standing, it would give him plenty of time to reach for the gun. The cop got him down quickly and removed the threat.

[Enigma]

(05-11-2015 11:45 AM)Sherman Wrote:  

"He was arrested by Dover police last July after a traffic stop for expired tags and was charged with DUI and several weapons charges, including possession of a firearm by a person prohibited, carrying a concealed deadly weapon and receiving a stolen firearm."

Why does the video say he was "innocent"? According to the above, he was carrying a stolen firearm if it was on his body at the time.

Key points: "last July", "traffic stop", "expired tags", "DUI"

He's not even driving in the video and it was "recorded in August 2013". They're two entirely different incidents.

Quote:

The cops were informed he had a firearm.

They were informed someone with a yellow shirt had a firearm. He's not wearing a yellow shirt.

Quote:

The cop clearly screamed at him to get down on the ground. I tested it myself, and from the time the cop gave the command I had plenty of time to get to the ground. Not following the command and moving slowly is passive-aggressive resistance. While he was standing, it would give him plenty of time to reach for the gun. The cop got him down quickly and removed the threat.

His hands were on the pavement and he was lowering himself to the ground.

[TheWastelander]

He shouldn't have kicked him in the head. It was unprofessional, excessive and a clear example of brutality.

However, I echo Mikado's thoughts. We don't need a new thread every time there's one of these incidents.

Also, a lot of your complaints are nonsensical. So what if they yelled at him? They suspected him of being armed and just involved in a fight. It turns out that he has a pretty extensive criminal record, including weapons violations charges. Do you think it's a mere coincidence he's a criminal wearing a yellow hat and walking around in that area at that hour?

I think if you believe you can do a better job then all cops you ought to enroll in a police academy and give it a shot rather than just complaining about them every chance you get. Show them how you think it should be done.

[Sherman]

The video doesn't give the reason why he was stopped. It's true the radio said "yellow shirt", but he had a "yellow hat" , so maybe they were compensating for inaccurate descriptions which they may frequently get. That is the problem with these videos. They only give a narrow view of what happened. We don't know why they stopped him. It turns out the guy was a felon so he clearly knew the routine and was resisting passively-aggressively by moving slow. You have to ask yourself the question, if you are a cop and you are going to have 1000 incidents that fits into this scenario, what are you going to do every time to make sure you survive your entire career? If you suspect the guy is armed and he doesn't follow directions you are going to put him down in the shortest period of time with whatever is available. In the video, the kick did the job.

[Medic42]

Even I think that's excessive and meritless. He's going to lose his job and should be up on multiple charges.

[Sherman]

I put the video on Youtube's slowest speed. The suspect gets down on his knees and puts his hands on the ground and starts to turn towards the camera. It looks like he was positioning himself to start running and it didn't look like he was intending to go to the ground as ordered. Then when the officer kicks him he falls down to the fully prone position. If he would have ran, there would have been a big chase or people would complain if they shot him.

[JohnyBoi95]

(05-11-2015 06:02 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

I put the video on Youtube's slowest speed. The suspect gets down on his knees and puts his hands on the ground and starts to turn towards the camera. It looks like he was positioning himself to start running and it didn't look like he was intending to go to the ground as ordered. Then when the officer kicks him he falls down to the fully prone position. If he would have ran, there would have been a big chase or people would complain if they shot him.

Mate you hamster is in overdrive

"he was dropping too slowly"

"he was a felon"

"he looked like he was about to start running"

Do any of these justify a kick with that amount of force to someone's jaw?

[MasculineOfCenter]

(05-11-2015 06:02 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

I put the video on Youtube's slowest speed. The suspect gets down on his knees and puts his hands on the ground and starts to turn towards the camera. It looks like he was positioning himself to start running and it didn't look like he was intending to go to the ground as ordered. Then when the officer kicks him he falls down to the fully prone position. If he would have ran, there would have been a big chase or people would complain if they shot him.

If the cops think he's a threat to run, then they should restrain him. There's absolutely no excuse for standing over the guy and kicking his face. I usually have some sympathy for what cops have to contend with, but in this video their behavior is despicable.

[Sherman]

(05-11-2015 10:43 PM)JohnyBoi95 Wrote:  

(05-11-2015 06:02 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

I put the video on Youtube's slowest speed. The suspect gets down on his knees and puts his hands on the ground and starts to turn towards the camera. It looks like he was positioning himself to start running and it didn't look like he was intending to go to the ground as ordered. Then when the officer kicks him he falls down to the fully prone position. If he would have ran, there would have been a big chase or people would complain if they shot him.

Mate you hamster is in overdrive

"he was dropping too slowly"

"he was a felon"

"he looked like he was about to start running"

Do any of these justify a kick with that amount of force to someone's jaw?

It depends on the totality of facts and the situation. The first grand jury decided not to prosecute. Also, the kick was done in a split second, while we have time to go through the video frame by frame. A cop isn't expected to pick the perfect strategy.

"Webster's attorney, James Liguori, said before the first grand jury met that he expected criminal charges to be brought but promised to mount a vigorous defense because his client had to use force to arrest Dickerson, a violent felon. "Tom Webster's quick thinking and instincts helped keep a very bad guy off our streets," Liguori said in a March 2014 statement."

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news.../26983293/

[AneroidOcean]

(05-11-2015 11:03 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

It depends on the totality of facts and the situation. The first grand jury decided not to prosecute. Also, the kick was done in a split second, while we have time to go through the video frame by frame. A cop isn't expected to pick the perfect strategy.

So let's assume that you're right, that a kick to get this guy on the ground was justified.

Why not kick/push with his food downwards on the guys back to force him to the ground?

It's clearly an overreaction by a cop pissed that the guy is being lackadaisical in getting to the ground and because the guy is not completely respecting his authority.

Guys like this have massive, massive power trips and that's why they prefer to lay a beating into a guy.

There's a difference between expecting a "perfect strategy" and a "reasonable, lawful one" which is what I expect.

Just because you are dealing with someone who isn't being all that reasonable, doesn't mean that you should throw reason out the window.