[kmhour]

location is very important.

but for med school? when you're still young and it's a four year commitment? go to school at a good school, preferably the best you can get into. then go practice in Ft Lauderdale when you're done.

[keysersoze]

First, I must say I'm overwhelmed with gratitude for all the helpful responses! Thanks.

A few things...

As I stated in the OP, if I were to be accepted into an elite or even a top ~60 school, I'd attend regardless of location. I'm talking Wisconsin, Ohio State, Pitt, Cinci, Indiana, Boston U, Rush. I'd attend any of these awesome schools in a heartbeat. But as I stated, I am not a slam dunk for admission - I wouldn't bet the house on it.

What I really meant, was if the decision were between lower tier MD schools (I'm talking Toledo or similar) in the midwest and a DO school in a kick-ass location, I'm torn. This is a very likely scenario.

Furthermore, the disparity of prestige between the MD and DO degrees is quickly diminishing. Being a DO doesn't imply becoming some second rate scrub doctor that gets stuck prescribing tylenol every day in Zanesville. Also, to a degree, it's not about where you went to med school, it's about how good of a doctor you become. Being a sociable, likable, and charismatic doctor is much more desirable than a dweeby chemistry-obsessed nerd with no interpersonal skills. They're weeding these guys out. It's all about your work ethic, your passion, your skill, and your ability to work with people. Typing this out is actually giving me quite a bit of clarity.

In addition, you can find your way into any specialty if you kick ass on your boards. My dad went to a DO school and became a vascular surgeon. I'm shadowing an orthopedic surgeon this week in fact.

I have a few friends in med school. The level headed ones all tell me the same thing - if you're on your game and know how to get shit done, you'll be able to go out occasionally. I'm talking one weekend night or once every two weekends. Not a bad deal if you ask me. Sure, it's not undergrad where I can go out boozing 3-4 nights a week, spit some game on campus, pump iron between classes, and go on stimulant-infused study binges to make up for the last week's hedonism, but I will have some free time to keep level-headed.

I just think it'd be nice on a Saturday to work out, kick it at the beach, game some skimpy-clothed hotties, and have a few beers in the sunshine with a nice view. Sounds like a great day to me. Especially compared to walking through grey slush as I have to go to the Starbucks just to see a pretty girl.

I just want to exist in a state of grace between school, fitness, girls, and happiness.

Today I'm going to call some DO schools and ask for match lists to see which specialties and hospitals the students are getting into. Thanks for the tip, The_CEO.


Off day spent here?



Or here?




Seriously though guys, thanks for the input. There are many thought-provoking posts in this thread. It's great to hear different perspectives, especially coming from guys who have more life experience than me.

[Alfa]

You can say the stigma is going away all you want, but to the layman the reputation is still there. If anything the stigma will get worse because "average is over." I know guys that I graduated with who chose the caribbean schools over DO ones. But good luck man, the pay will always be great.

[Drazen]

Yeah, try to see the ratios of MDs to DOs in a place like Cedars Sinai or New York Presbyterian or any other high demand location. Try being a DO Dermatologist or Plastic Surgeon. They are out there, but chances are, most are MDs. It just makes it easier for you for the rest of your life if you want to choose where you want to live and practice. By becoming a DO, you do definitely limit your options. Hell, i know several plastic surgeons that went to Chicago Med and that's pretty bottom of the barrel and they are printing money. Do you think people care they went to Chicago Med? No, they care more that they have an "MD" at the end of their name.

I mean think about it, you look in the phone book and you see "John Smith, MD" or " John Smith, DO". Who do you go to? You get this perspective BECAUSE you live in a low value area right now and your dad is a DO. You're skewed to a certain perspective. Is your dad pushing you to be a DO because he is one as well?

Who do you think gets the edge when a patient selects who to go to? I'm sure you can build a solid rep through hard work and referrals, but you're being very shortsighted here. You're making a decision on your entire career and life based on whether you can hang on a beach with hot women during your down time.
I mean its useless to try to figure it out right now, just apply to all the programs and see where you like the best. That's really the best indicator.

I get you feel isolated and whatever, I think you should take a year off, go travel, bang all the girls, see all the cities, and have the time of your life. You'll gain way more perspective than living in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. Get that all out of your system and make the smart decision for your future.

[keysersoze]

(04-17-2015 12:34 PM)Drazen Wrote:  

I mean think about it, you look in the phone book and you see "John Smith, MD" or " John Smith, DO". Who do you go to? You get this perspective BECAUSE you live in a low value area right now and your dad is a DO. You're skewed to a certain perspective. Is your dad pushing you to be a DO because he is one as well?

Who do you think gets the edge when a patient selects who to go to? I'm sure you can build a solid rep through hard work and referrals, but you're being very shortsighted here. You're making a decision on your entire career and life based on whether you can hang on a beach with hot women during your down time.
I mean its useless to try to figure it out right now, just apply to all the programs and see where you like the best. That's really the best indicator.

I get you feel isolated and whatever, I think you should take a year off, go travel, bang all the girls, see all the cities, and have the time of your life. You'll gain way more perspective than living in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. Get that all out of your system and make the smart decision for your future.

Very different perspective than most in the thread. Thanks for the blunt honesty. I completely get what you're saying and I'm inclined to agree. I need to see things outside of my bubble. For me, I just don't know how "worth it" it is. Maybe I'm being an idiot. Maybe not. I just don't know.

But yeah, my dad has always pushed me toward DO. To his dismay I've always been against it. I said no, I'm going MD. It's only been recently that I've entertained the idea and decided to apply DO.

A year or two ago I was obsessed with academics/med school. I had a perfect GPA, research, the whole nine yards. I wanted to go somewhere like Duke or Vanderbilt. I was fixated on prestige and recognition. It was kind of an ego thing. Starting last spring or summer... things just changed. I still wanted to go to medical school, but my taste for life just increased ten fold. It was an incredibly exciting time - hot girls, travel, festivals, drinking, drugs. It was incredibly eye opening. I was no longer a mental slave to the dick waving rat-race and pretentious competition with medical school. But I never lost track. It's hard to explain.

On the subject of taking a year off, I'd absolutely love to. However, I'd feel like a huge letdown to my parents, friends, and myself if I didn't go directly out of college.

[Drazen]

It seems to me that your desire to go to a DO school has less to do with the school being in an awesome location, but for you to please your father, family and friends as part of your "expected" path. The fact that you are heavily considering a location like Ft Lauderdale, at least to me, is merely a subconscious justification for you to choose a path that you really aren't 100% into.

You are recently leaning towards DO, I think its a case of you rebelling but then eventually submitting to what is expected of you. Do what makes you happy, but just consider that you are likely being influenced others who may not have your best interests in mind.

[keysersoze]

(04-17-2015 03:42 PM)Drazen Wrote:  

It seems to me that your desire to go to a DO school has less to do with the school being in an awesome location, but for you to please your father, family and friends as part of your "expected" path. The fact that you are heavily considering a location like Ft Lauderdale, at least to me, is merely a subconscious justification for you to choose a path that you really aren't 100% into.

You are recently leaning towards DO, I think its a case of you rebelling but then eventually submitting to what is expected of you. Do what makes you happy, but just consider that you are likely being influenced others who may not have your best interests in mind.

No, that's really not it at all. The only person who actually wants me to go DO is my father, and even he doesn't really care. It's more like an "Oh I went to this college so you should too!" type of thing.

No one expects me to go DO. I feel like DO is actually the "rebellious" route, so to speak. MD would be the preferred path, but I feel like I may enjoy Ft. Lauderdale much more in terms of my own well-being and happiness.

[Drazen]

I guess just go wherever you get the best gut feeling then. If its an Allopathic, then go there. If its an Osteopathic, then go there.

What kind of Doctor do you want to be and where do you want to live after Medical School?

[jake1720]

Do not move to Louisiana.

That is my only advice.

[worldtraveller85]

Location is very important but not to the detriment of financial/career/business expense.

BALANCE is the key.

[polymath]

Yo man.

Put your career first. Everything else will follow.

If you are in a shit location but you're killing it in life and you're confident, the world is yours.

If you're in the best place in the world but you're struggling, all the pussy in the world can walk right past you and you'll still jerk off at night.

That said, life is about far more than pussy and you have to make some choices that are consequential but unclear. Nobody can prioritize that for you but yourself.

Also, a little struggling is healthy. Don't make decisions based on what seems easiest or most enjoyable.

Just my thoughts.....if you end up a doctor you can't go wrong any way you do it.

[robreke]

I'm in a town with few and far between opportunities in terms of young hot 20 somethings that will bang an older guy like me on the regular. Actually, it was kind of like this when I was younger too as I live in a cliquish city and state. However, I have a successful and profitable advisory business here that provides me with a good residual income (I don't have to work a whole lot if I don't want to and still make a good income)
However, there's one or two "big" cities I travel to regularly and I literally get laid on the first night by a new girl, the second night by a new girl or another girl I banged before in that city...and I have multiple date/bang opportunities. I'm really questioning if I should move or stay. The thing is my company also has an office in this big city that I could transfer to...so I could just 'transfer' to this office here in the big city BUT, how many of my clients (in my current city/state) would stay with me once they find out I'm living two states to the west? I know some....maybe some big ones....would leave me and go with another local guy. I've worked for years to build that business....but my sex life is WAY better in this bigger city and I have a feeling I could build a quality rotation here too. So, I'm at a quandary in my life. I'm also kicking the idea around of just spending half the month here in the big city and half at home working my business. One thing's for sure, a good location can definitely add to one's happiness.

[keysersoze]

(04-17-2015 05:56 PM)Drazen Wrote:  

What kind of Doctor do you want to be and where do you want to live after Medical School?

That's a whole other huge debate.. I'm leaning towards surgery. Not exactly sure which subspecialty, but I like orthopedics. Other specialties such as cardiology and anesthesiology also interest me.

I'm not insanely picky... but if I am destined to stay in the midwest, I would need to be in a city like Chicago, Columbus, or Pittsburgh. Not bad places, but the climate and lifestyle doesn't "inspire" me as a poster said. Not at all. Climate wise, I think a coastal carolina city would suit me well. I just need to be somewhere where there's more going on and more to do.

Also, this weekend we had beautiful weather after a long, frigid winter. It was 70 and sunny for the first times since early fall. Downtown at my bar I work at, there were people sitting on the patios drinking, girls in sundresses, and everyone seemed to be in a nice, outgoing mood. The days are much longer and my productivity is skyrocketing. I'm in the mood to lift, grill out, talk to girls, study, drink beer, throw a football.

I just can't imagine staying in a place that makes everyone so dreary and down in the dumps half of the year.

[keysersoze]

(04-17-2015 11:16 PM)polymath Wrote:  

Yo man.

Put your career first. Everything else will follow.

If you are in a shit location but you're killing it in life and you're confident, the world is yours.

If you're in the best place in the world but you're struggling, all the pussy in the world can walk right past you and you'll still jerk off at night.

That said, life is about far more than pussy and you have to make some choices that are consequential but unclear. Nobody can prioritize that for you but yourself.

Also, a little struggling is healthy. Don't make decisions based on what seems easiest or most enjoyable.

Just my thoughts.....if you end up a doctor you can't go wrong any way you do it.

I am in a shit location, and I am killing it in life and I'm confident. I still want out. Put it this way, if I weren't in undergrad surrounded by girls, I'd despise this place. It might be a nice area to raise a family, but for a young player, this city doesn't have enough for me. I've truly outgrown it. I need more.

I'd be a debt-riddled med student, but I don't see myself truly struggling. There's a bright light at the end of the tunnel. I love academics and I'm level headed, so I can't see myself succumbing to stress.

"A little struggling is healthy". Truer words have never been spoken!

Thanks for the feedback.

[Sebastian]

People hang out with similar people. Its because they feel they belong to the group (comfort) and don't get judged.
Its the same for where you live. You don't want to get judged when you go outside and want to run into people who understand you.

I lived in small city in Midwest for awhile.

I liked visiting big cities because you can dress modern/metro and you don't stand out.
People ride bicycles and use public transportation without getting judged 'you can't afford a car?'
You can also drive small cars like mini or fiat. No one would care. I think driving a Vespa in a suit is very cool. You can only do that in the big city.
Its nice to have parking lot everywhere in small town but I think its also cool to just skateboard to your work or ride bicycle (electric, no sweat these days)
You don't walk around in small town. I thought it was cool to walk to local businesses in the city.

I'm also into a tech business. You will just run into techy guys at a bar and talk about apps and other IT Business. Its not by nerdy guys anymore. they are normal dudes you see everywhere. I haven't met anyone in my small town who's into IT startup yet. If you want to network with those people, yeah you can do that just by hanging out at bars (especially Polk st in SF)

so it depends on your interest. If you are outdoorsy guy in north face gear all the time, you don't want to hangout in the city talking about next climbing trip. If you are city guy, you don't want to hangout in a blazer among other outdoorsy people talking about boring stuff they don't find interesting.

I think visiting the place and standing out is one thing but if you constantly run into differences, you will get stressed out and start bitching 'people are different here' then you should consider moving.

[Vaun]

Looking back on my life, leaving the midwest earlier would have been on the top 5 of better choices I could have made below the age of 25. Had I known, I would have done college as quickly as possible and left much earlier in life. I took a few years off before college to travel and started a business. It was a good decision looking back, but damn I wish I would have had the foresight to apply to Stanford. And trust me, it would have been on all luck.

Those cities you mentioned all have fine schools and can be fun for a few years while you study. I attended one. Those good midwest schools will almost guarantee you a job anywhere you go. Whose going to turn down a Univ. of Chicago graduate? Remember that the school you pick, and the alumni connections as a result can and do really make a difference many years down the road.

One option is to get into a good program in the midwest, then focus on finishing as quickly as possible with the best possible grades. You'll save money, you'll get a good degree. You can take the time to pick your place while you work. Stay focused and get away from the aimless friends and family that define the midwest, who will suck you in to their ambivalent approach to life, and try to keep you there.

Another option is just to go. Pick the college you want to go to. Stanford, Princeton, UT? Just pick a spot and go. If you are like me at 18 in the midwest, this would have been a viable option. But no one in my life went to college(family,friends, etc), and I literally had to discover it on my own.

Once you leave the judgemental rusted out little towns full of drug addicts, you will notice that the rest of the world has much more opportunity. You will likely end up making way more money and open up more doors for yourself. Big cities have lower unemployment rates. Some cities have booming industries like tech, finance, real estate, etc. The weather is always better, pretty much anywhere else you go. Good cities are full of eligible attractive women. Personally I wouldn't go anywhere else in FLA except for Miami. If you are leaving the midwest only go to the top, the best cities with the best weather and the best opportunities. To me thats only a few places (Southern California, Northern California, Miami, NYC).

[Deepdiver]

I used to work with the woman who started this medical dental tourism business http://www.healthbase.com - no one really knows what the long term socialist impact of ACA (Obamacare) will have on the US Healthcare industry - forecasts are downward pressure on compensation with upward pressure on number of patients assigned per day. Can be as little as 15 minutes per patient.

Keep in mind cost of living and brutal weather in the NYC to Boston metroplex, high malpractice insurance rates going higher nationwide as ACA mandates seeing even sicker patients plus Federal and State Income taxes, Social Security, Medicare, Workmen's Comp and Unemployment insurance expenses all above the table employers and employees must pay and 50%+ can vacuumed up in taxes. TurboTax can mitigate this somewhat with the standard deductibles and optional IRS Audit insurance where their vendor handles all IRS interaction - cheap for $70.00 however at the higher income levels lots of tax the rich wealth redistribution pressure.

Any top 100 Med Schools in the USA and you can work anywhere you want in the world - go to where you, your money and your libido are treated best. There is a big world with a lot of women who will treat you better than radical USA feminist indoctrinated women. See the list of countries in the healthbase.com medical and dental tourism locations around the world.

[Alfa]

(04-19-2015 07:18 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

One option is to get into a good program in the midwest, then focus on finishing as quickly as possible with the best possible grades. You'll save money, you'll get a good degree. You can take the time to pick your place while you work. Stay focused and get away from the aimless friends and family that define the midwest, who will suck you in to their ambivalent approach to life, and try to keep you there.

I think that's the conundrum. It's tough to be productive in a place that doesn't inspire you to grow. The difference is significant if you're talking about social opportunities also.

[BasketBounce]

My response is not a direct answer to your question, OP. However, like you, I'm a college student looking who:

a) wants to become a doc
b) really enjoys the company of women

Given our similarity in age, vocational goals, and an penchant for hedonism, it might behoove you to consider the alternative perspective on your situation that I hold.

Drazen Wrote:

Who do you think gets the edge when a patient selects who to go to? I'm sure you can build a solid rep through hard work and referrals, but you're being very shortsighted here. You're making a decision on your entire career and life based on whether you can hang on a beach with hot women during your down time

I think this is the soundest piece of advice anyone else has posted. If you do the right things, you'll be a physician one day. You will be in a position to improve the health of many patients' lives, contribute medical to medical research, etc. and the more work you put in now, the better off you'll be in the long run. My point being is this: do not make your decision based on where you'll get the most play. I would say you should base your decision based on which will be best for your future career.

Others have mentioned that you need balance, and I agree, but the balance that we 20-somethings need is not 50% work and 50% women. It should be more like 70/30 work/women. It sounds like you've put in the work and you're capable of doing the things to get into some really prestigious medical schools...why not just continue to work hard and get women on the sides? Someone else in this thread mentioned that you will be in class with other medical students, half of which will be girls...trust me, if you like talking to "hotties" as much as you say you do, you will have ample opportunity at any medical school that is close to a regular college campus.

But really, if you ask me, meeting cool girls is more of a hobby...you're career isn't going to be like that. If you want to study medicine and go to medical school, you should focus on doing it well. You shouldn't pick a medical school with the expectation that you will be chilling every weekend and hooking up with girls. Again, I'm not saying that you should be celibate in medical school; on the contrary, you should hook up with any girl that makes her interests obvious enough. But electing to learn a rigorous trade on the basis of women seems incongruous to me.

Also, if you continue to make decisions so that you don't disappoint others, you will only end up disappointing yourself. Do an MD if YOU want it, not if you're parents want it. It's your life, not theirs.

Have you considered taking a couple of gap years? I plan to hold a job in a cool, relatively inexpensive city. Hopefully I can get the whole women-chasing thing out of my system and learn more about myself in the process!

[Sonoma]

The additonal money spent for being out of state now might mean you have less options in the future

Also, due to med school much of your game might have to be more day to day (Tinder, daygame) than night game, which generally eats more time, expenses and the health of your body. If this is the case then the cities nightlife may not matter as much if you're only going out once or twice a month

[Seamus]

To the general question of how important location is to happiness:

This is something I've thought a bit about. Have you ever heard of the concept of the hedonic treadmill? The basic idea is that all humans have a relatively set point of "happiness", and that while major positive or negative events in your life will briefly move the needle, eventually you'll return to that set point. So while moving to Miami or doubling your salary might make you happier in the short term, at the end of the day if you were a miserable son of a bitch you're still going to be. This is why both lottery winners and paraplegics generally return to the same level of happiness a few years after winning/becoming crippled (see above link).

Now I don't necessarily believe this theory wholeheartedly. Certain things definitely have had lasting impacts on my happiness: being in good shape, being pain free, having solid friends, etc. But I'm not sure location is really one of them. I love traveling because it's basically a continuous series of short term highs, but once I've been in a place a year or so I'm basically back at my stable point. Which is fine, because I'm a happy guy in general.

Just some food for thought.

[ikoko]

Your focus needs to be long term here, but from the great deal of uncertainty you seem to currently have, perhaps the best option for you long term would be to take a year off and really find out what you want to do. Its only here in the states that everyone rushes into longer term career paths right away. If your financial situation allows it take a year off and travel.

Regarding which program and which city, again thinking long term is the key and to that end preserving options in my mind is always the way to go. The best way to do that is to get a MD hands down.

Apply to as many schools as you plan to and then, unless finances are not an issue, make your choice based upon VALUE. Value is the best school at the lowest cost. You want quality because 1) the higher quality makes for a better school experience. Ironically, your school experience will be much easier in a top school where everyone is expected to succeed as to opposed to a low level school where they weed out the weak and there is more cut throat competition among students. Your social life will be much better here too as better schools are generally attached to better universities; 2) getting matched and a job will be easier initially, especially if you want to be somewhere other then the immediate area around your school. A degree from a well respected School travels a lot better then a degree from a no name school. You can overcome this through stellar achievement, but..a degree from a well respected school will always have people inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt initially as opposed to you having to prove yourself. I know everyone thinks they are exceptional and they will excel, but that’s just not how it works in real life. Play the odds.

If you are fortunate enough to get into several schools, if one is head and shoulders above the others then go there, regardless of cost for the above reasons. By head and shoulders above I mean top 20 school compared to mid range regional schools or respected regional school compared to strictly local school. But if all the schools you get into are all roughly equivalent (don’t get caught up in the the game of this school is ranked #45 and this is ranked #64 there is no real difference) then cost should be your primary concern, because debt may not seem like an issue to you now, but debt plays a very large role in what type of jobs you can take later and lifestyle choices you can make. A 50% scholarship to School A ranked #64 is a way better deal for you long term then having to foot the entire bill at School B ranked #45.
In my mind location of the school only becomes important if your choices are limited to all lesser known regional and local schools, where almost all the graduates end up practicing in the immediate area. In that case go to the school where you would most like to live as you will probably end up practicing there.

In sum, where you go to school for the next four years really should not play a part in your decision making if you are serious about this career path, unless you only options are lesser known schools. This is only four years and as any of the older guys on here can tell you four years come and go quickly then you have the rest of your life. Going to a well respected school will give you the ability to basically choice which city you want to live in and have the money to enjoy that city to the fullest.

[XII]

Same boat, aiming for osteopathic.

Protip: TUNCOM is 20 minutes from Vegas.

[Augustus]

I can't stress the importance of location enough. I live in a crappy, small town of about 30,000 people and it saps my energy. I routinely travel around the states, though, so it isn't completely debilitating.

That being said, I would try to get into the most prestigious school as possible. Doing so will improve your resources to comfortably travel anywhere you want afterwards.

[Phoenix]

By effect on quality of life, location is about 60%, and what you do there is about 40%.

I exhort you to disregard the opinions of your parents and friends. Giving the slightest shit what my parents or friends thought caused enormous damage to my youth. I've seen countless other men live truly awful non-lives through being concerned with the opinions and guidance of their parents and other authority figures. One particular case made me feel truly sick and angry, that poor bastard could have lived a great life but it was choked off by his parents psychological straight-jacket. The only person who is qualified to direct your life is you. I cannot emphasis this strongly enough. You must not concern yourself with the opinions, guidance, and beliefs of relatives or friends. Whatever path you take must be under your own direction, guided by your own independent research, and for your own happiness.