[BBinger]

I have been a RooshV reader for quite a long time and with the sheer amount of travel experience and knowledge I see on this forum I must wonder what information this forum might offer me with regards to permanent expatriation from the United States.

Having spent 2004-2008 in undergrad an 2008-2012 in grad school I can see where the lines fall, any person who wants to think for a living is doomed if the contemplate such a career in the present United States. One only needs to chart Noam Chompsky's career ark in the United States where he went from tolerated dissident to fringe blogger to see that the Effect of Bush II through Obama has been a nearly complete takeover of media in the United States by god only knows who.

At present I imagine as a first destination the Phillipines in order to decompress and learn to not suck in the way Americans do. As a second destination I plan for Argentina, because their immigration laws are the shit and they actually offer useful passports to naturalized (2 years) citizens. I do not at present plan to renounce my United States citizenship, but the future course of events seems such that I may be compelled to.

Any advice on moving to the Phillipines or Argentina indefinitely is welcome. Any advice on other destinations is exceedingly welcome. Over the course of this thread and my journey I further beseech serious respondents to entertain the possibility that I might out of necessity be a less than reliable narrator. In contrast to the Disney song it is a large world and I am but a small person seeking survival amongst it.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Best is if you can become a citizen of an EU country or better Switzerland or Norway. Then have a Green-card for the US. That settles most issues.

Personally I would never exchange the US citizenship for the Phillipines or Argentina. The only option I would consider is when I am rich enough to get a citizenship similarly like a new shirt - you need to be roughly 100 mio. + to do that or invest a sizable portion of your income for that.

[Akula]

Giving up your US passport isn't advisable unless you have a huge amount of money and are doing it for tax reasons or if you can get one from an EU country, Switzerland, Canada etc. The amount of travel freedom you get from the top-tier passports is worth it's weight in gold.

But of course it's fine to get another passport and advisable - increasingly we'll all need a second way out in the future.

If you can start an online business that location independent then go for it. But for better or worse the money is still mostly to be made in the US and West (for now) so you can always stack cash at home and then spend some time abroad checking out the scene.

Definitely need to do some exploring and living in these places before you just up and move there. First need to see if you really can live there full time and if you miss all the conveniences of home and/or fit into the culture.

I am personally fine living outside the US forever if I have to but I really enjoy coming back a few weeks a year to reconnect and live at home for a bit.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

You write like someone who has been in an academic bubble for way too long.

All of the crap in your head is just that - crap that really has nothing to do with your practical, day to day life.

All of the Game of Thrones political stuff that you read about and consume in academia, basically doesn't exist in real life. Sure, it's happening, but you never see it, it doesn't effect you, and you have no role in it, so what the fuck does it matter?

In real life, in the real world, from an individual's self interest and point of view, it is a HORRIBLE idea to renounce your US citizenship.

Spend a couple years living and working in a place like Thailand, Venezuela, or the Philippines. Then spend a couple years living and working in Florida, California, or Colorado. You will change your anti US sentiments very quickly. You will also gain a new found appreciation for having drinkable water, clean streets, breathable air, an educated population, efficient public services, a government that spends at least part of its time serving rather than exploiting its citizens, and an economy that provides opportunity to people who aren't blood relatives of the prime minister.

[BBinger]

I apologize if drunk post took a bit of a paranoid turn. I indeed spent way too long in the academic bubble, but I got to see the decline of the American University over 8 years and three campuses. I've been out nearly three years now.

Watching what happened through 8 years of Bush II and 8 years of Obama... The prospect of Hillary Clitler in the White House... Leaving forever might be extreme, but leaving for an indefinite period of time is on the table.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(04-15-2015 07:10 AM)BBinger Wrote:  

I apologize if drunk post took a bit of a paranoid turn. I indeed spent way too long in the academic bubble, but I got to see the decline of the American University over 8 years and three campuses. I've been out nearly three years now.

Watching what happened through 8 years of Bush II and 8 years of Obama... The prospect of Hillary Clitler in the White House... Leaving forever might be extreme, but leaving for an indefinite period of time is on the table.

How does any of that affect you?

I'll quote myself from the HRC thread:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-46680-...#pid998857

Quote:

I'm a former political junkie, and I find it hard to understand how people still get so excited about politics, especially on RVF.

Once I became red pill is when I stopped caring about politics, let me explain why.

For me, the central part of being red pill is realizing that you are in control of your own destiny, that you decide what experiences you have in life - no one is going to give you anything or solve your problems for you.

It makes no difference to me who wins the race for president in 2016, it will not affect my real, actual, day to day life in anyway at all. How often I go to the gym, what books I read, how many approaches I do, how many quality women I bang, how many good meals I cook, all of these things will have a MUCH bigger impact on my life than which figurehead claws their way to the top of a corrupt heap by lying most convincingly.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(04-15-2015 07:10 AM)BBinger Wrote:  

I apologize if drunk post took a bit of a paranoid turn. I indeed spent way too long in the academic bubble, but I got to see the decline of the American University over 8 years and three campuses. I've been out nearly three years now.

Watching what happened through 8 years of Bush II and 8 years of Obama... The prospect of Hillary Clitler in the White House... Leaving forever might be extreme, but leaving for an indefinite period of time is on the table.

Honestly there is a bigger problem if you still believe in some kind of meaningful difference with regard to the fake left-right-paradigm.

I would recommend the books by Carroll Quigley (CFR historian) and Antony Sutton (Stanford history professor) to get a different viewpoint on things.

Even if you happen to disagree with the takes of the professors above it is always helpful at least to take a look at other highly educated intelligent viewpoints. You may see the world for more than what the media and the world of academia has shown you (both essentially preaching the same crap).

[Sherman]

One possibility is to get a technical visa in the Netherlands. This is possible if you have a technical skill that is in short supply in the Netherlands. You need a company to hire and sponsor you. After you live there for five years you are eligible for Dutch citizenship. Also, when you get Dutch citizenship, they require you to relinquish your previous citizenship which gives you a nice excuse to renounce American citizenship. I had a technical visa years ago and it was a good deal. It gives you a break on taxes and the right to a Dutch driver's license in exchange for your country driver's license.

http://www.expatica.com/nl/employment/Wo...02331.html

The other possibility is to go to Mexico. Mexico is probably the easiest place for an American to get permanent residence and eventually citizenship. Mexico has also served as a refuge for persecuted Americans. There are still Mormon and other religious colonies in Mexico like the Mennonites. Mitt Romney's father was born in Mexico. In Mexico you have the freedom to do pretty much what you want and are left alone. There is even a statue of Abraham Lincoln in Tijuana.

   


Blake Sawyer claims to live in Argentina and has downloadable podcasts from his radio show. He has a website with information for expating but I haven't joined.

https://escapetheusanow.com/aggregator/sources/1


I think it is good for men to consider an escape option, particularly if you are a conservative or Christian heterosexual male. Your persecution is just beginning and is going to get much more intense in the future. And there will be little hope for your children. It takes a lot of planning to leave, so you want to start thinking about a backup plan. Your other option is to become a homosexual and stay in America.

[BBinger]

(04-15-2015 08:59 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(04-15-2015 07:10 AM)BBinger Wrote:  

I apologize if drunk post took a bit of a paranoid turn. I indeed spent way too long in the academic bubble, but I got to see the decline of the American University over 8 years and three campuses. I've been out nearly three years now.

Watching what happened through 8 years of Bush II and 8 years of Obama... The prospect of Hillary Clitler in the White House... Leaving forever might be extreme, but leaving for an indefinite period of time is on the table.

Honestly there is a bigger problem if you still believe in some kind of meaningful difference with regard to the fake left-right-paradigm.

I would recommend the books by Carroll Quigley (CFR historian) and Antony Sutton (Stanford history professor) to get a different viewpoint on things.

Even if you happen to disagree with the takes of the professors above it is always helpful at least to take a look at other highly educated intelligent viewpoints. You may see the world for more than what the media and the world of academia has shown you (both essentially preaching the same crap).

I'm not a big fan of the American left/right fiction either. The only way to stay sane on campus is reading the stuff they don't want you to. I floated Clitler out there as one example of the largely disappointing slate of potential successors to Obama.

I see a long trend of increasing higher real taxes. I know of too many former classmates starting families and living in their parent's houses, a tri-generational living situation more typical of the poorest places in Asia.

The increased melding of the National Security apparatus on mundane law enforcement and the current proliferation of laws designed only to please forty year old little girls isn't encouraging either. Some sort of legal construct in the style of the completely conscionable British style ASBO seems like it can't be much more than a decade away. The point where anti-social behavior as a generality can subject a person to legal sanction, would be an advent I would want to watch from a safe distance.

[worldwidetraveler]

A change in location will more than likely be a temporary solution. From reading your OP, it sounds like you need to change your focus. If you focus on the negative, you will find the negative and be unhappy.

Every country has it's problems. You will just start focusing on the problems in [insert country here] after some time and be in the same situation as you are now.

By all means, get out of the US and experience some new cultures. It will only benefit you. Do it because it will enrich you as a man. Don't do it because you can't stand the US or your perceived problems the US has.

I can say if you don't ditch the negative thinking, you won't enjoy yourself as much no matter where you may end up.

[Zooxanthellae]

Wise words

(04-15-2015 05:48 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

You write like someone who has been in an academic bubble for way too long.

All of the crap in your head is just that - crap that really has nothing to do with your practical, day to day life.

All of the Game of Thrones political stuff that you read about and consume in academia, basically doesn't exist in real life. Sure, it's happening, but you never see it, it doesn't effect you, and you have no role in it, so what the fuck does it matter?

In real life, in the real world, from an individual's self interest and point of view, it is a HORRIBLE idea to renounce your US citizenship.

Spend a couple years living and working in a place like Thailand, Venezuela, or the Philippines. Then spend a couple years living and working in Florida, California, or Colorado. You will change your anti US sentiments very quickly. You will also gain a new found appreciation for having drinkable water, clean streets, breathable air, an educated population, efficient public services, a government that spends at least part of its time serving rather than exploiting its citizens, and an economy that provides opportunity to people who aren't blood relatives of the prime minister.

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Unless you have citizenship in another developed country renouncing your American citizenship is a terrible idea. Instead of thinking of your American passport as a liability I would advise you to research your genealogical tree; you might be able to claim citizenship by descent. Furthermore, as a US citizen you can move to the Netherlands via the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty (DAFT) or obtain citizenship or residency by investment if you have enough money. You could also apply for working holiday visas but those require you to leave after ~one year; you cannot settle in the country.

[Dirtyblueshirt]

I agree with the advice given, cooler heads prevail. US citizenship has its worth and is something to be valued, despite the recent push to give it away freely to illegals in this country.

However, when they come out with a law requiring single men to marry 250+ pound wildebeasts, then it may be time to abandon ship.

[Orson]

I appreciate the back and forth in this thread and valences the discussion has gone. But to bring us back to viable backup strategies, one ought to consider the utility of second citizenship - does the passport allow you to travel easily or not?

On this score, Argentina ranks quite well (SEE http://www.vagablogging.net/the-best-pas...vel.html). Knowing how many nations a given passport will give you easy travel is an important element in choosing second citizenship; freedom to easily travel adds to your range of freedom. Look lower on the list at the LINK - these countries are often less desirable for other reasons. (Wikipedia has listed this information also, but I don't find it there today.) And yes, gaining citizenship in two years of residency in Argentina is what I've learned is true - but often finding the right judge to approve your application can be important there, I understand).

Furthermore, a political (and thereby economic) turn-around is likely with the next government. Thus, spending time there working may be time well spent!

Another option is Dominican Republic. People eager for an exit have turned the passport into almost a liability. With a DR passport, one can travel visa free to only certain Caribbean nations; that's it!

But the DR citizenship can be "rushed" through back dating residency time there. Fixers can be hired and documents arranged and some judges are easier gatekeepers than others - or so I understand.

Like nearly all of Latin America, corruption is pretty common. (And this has it's benefits and penalties.)

One of the great problems of exiting the US is simply lacking a second passport - you cannot do the first without having the second. North American people needing that door can easily see DR as a primary - and not at all distant from the US - objective. Consequently, other nations have progressively restricted the utility of having the DR passport.

Some say Paraguay is similarly useful; not a holiday destination, it has not been as abused as DR. Paraguay is inexpensive to live in, but unlike DR, gains you easy visa-free access to an assortment of nations close the to cone of SA.

Thus, should the 'quick option' appeal to you without the tropics of DR, you ought consider that option. On the other hand, the capital of DR is seriously big city - and Paraguay does not offer any true equal.



There are two related topics the OP has opened up. First, by implication from my discussion (and others), why do we not hear about certain labor poor nations as citizenship destinations?

Many nations of the former Soviet Union, for instance, and many in Asia. And especially Russia itself! Russia is vast in area and natural resources, close to billion plus China - and too close for Russian security. And the average man there dies very prematurely. The population is shrinking. She needs to import people.

The second topic is this: is the US in decline? If so, when did it begin?

I have been debating this among both friends and new friends, recently. I think the period 2004 to 2009 marks the inflection point of an irreversible self-inflicted decline of the US. And as the OP indicates, educational decline is a big part of the problem. The lack of seriousness of education; the marginalization of true and deeper education that comes from real engagement with ideas, issues, alternatives, and discussion.

Which is so ironic, since US education is such a very important model - for example - that the EU, at least with the Bologna Accords (of 2002, I think), opted to remake their system along US lines (eg, first degree, masters, then doctorate or equivalent), if only to make international education much easier, more comparable and transferable.

Perhaps others can point out threads exploring this second topic that I haven't seen yet" Or else maybe both topics deserve their own threads in other forum areas?

As one example of American decline, let me offer the case of Edward Snowden and his nearly two-year-old NSA expose, summarized in the documentary "Citizen Four." (Listening to Snowden speak consumes the most arresting parts of the film, to me.)

Snowden says that he wants the old, playful, open and free and welcoming era of the internet, the one that existed before 9/11, to come back! He says it is the self-censorship of expression that's killing internet freedom. Towards the film's end, he says he thinks that he's been successful.

I disagree. Snowden thinks that after his revelations, there is now a debate over privacy versus Big Government surveillance. I think this is clearly wrong.

There is no debate in the US, or else we would do the simplest of things, at least - like having the FISA Court that authorizes subpoenas for government spying on people have privacy and Constitutional advocates to oppose the spy-bureaucrats before the panel of judges.

If even this obvious step cannot be be done, then who can seriously say "Snowden won" in getting a debate about government surveillance versus privacy started? We can't. Therefore, I weep for this nation's future too.

Well. I've strayed from my more "focused" goal. I have to agree that it is difficult to seriously discuss expatriation without defining - or at least offering examples of - motivating dissatisfactions.

[BBinger]

(04-16-2015 03:35 AM)Dirtyblueshirt Wrote:  

I agree with the advice given, cooler heads prevail. US citizenship has its worth and is something to be valued, despite the recent push to give it away freely to illegals in this country.

However, when they come out with a law requiring single men to marry 250+ pound wildebeasts, then it may be time to abandon ship.

Coolers heads suggest there are serious reasons to consider indefinite US citizenship a potential liability. Obviously though the potential inability to return to the US ever is a risk that needs to be weighed.

[BBinger]

(04-16-2015 04:47 AM)Orson Wrote:  

I appreciate the back and forth in this thread and valences the discussion has gone. But to bring us back to viable backup strategies, one ought to consider the utility of second citizenship - does the passport allow you to travel easily or not?

On this score, Argentina ranks quite well (SEE http://www.vagablogging.net/the-best-pas...vel.html). Knowing how many nations a given passport will give you easy travel is an important element in choosing second citizenship; freedom to easily travel adds to your range of freedom. Look lower on the list at the LINK - these countries are often less desirable for other reasons. (Wikipedia has listed this information also, but I don't find it there today.) And yes, gaining citizenship in two years of residency in Argentina is what I've learned is true - but often finding the right judge to approve your application can be important there, I understand).

Furthermore, a political (and thereby economic) turn-around is likely with the next government. Thus, spending time there working may be time well spent!

Another option is Dominican Republic. People eager for an exit have turned the passport into almost a liability. With a DR passport, one can travel visa free to only certain Caribbean nations; that's it!

But the DR citizenship can be "rushed" through back dating residency time there. Fixers can be hired and documents arranged and some judges are easier gatekeepers than others - or so I understand.

Like nearly all of Latin America, corruption is pretty common. (And this has it's benefits and penalties.)

One of the great problems of exiting the US is simply lacking a second passport - you cannot do the first without having the second. North American people needing that door can easily see DR as a primary - and not at all distant from the US - objective. Consequently, other nations have progressively restricted the utility of having the DR passport.

Some say Paraguay is similarly useful; not a holiday destination, it has not been as abused as DR. Paraguay is inexpensive to live in, but unlike DR, gains you easy visa-free access to an assortment of nations close the to cone of SA.

Thus, should the 'quick option' appeal to you without the tropics of DR, you ought consider that option. On the other hand, the capital of DR is seriously big city - and Paraguay does not offer any true equal.



There are two related topics the OP has opened up. First, by implication from my discussion (and others), why do we not hear about certain labor poor nations as citizenship destinations?

Many nations of the former Soviet Union, for instance, and many in Asia. And especially Russia itself! Russia is vast in area and natural resources, close to billion plus China - and too close for Russian security. And the average man there dies very prematurely. The population is shrinking. She needs to import people.

The second topic is this: is the US in decline? If so, when did it begin?

I have been debating this among both friends and new friends, recently. I think the period 2004 to 2009 marks the inflection point of an irreversible self-inflicted decline of the US. And as the OP indicates, educational decline is a big part of the problem. The lack of seriousness of education; the marginalization of true and deeper education that comes from real engagement with ideas, issues, alternatives, and discussion.

Which is so ironic, since US education is such a very important model - for example - that the EU, at least with the Bologna Accords (of 2002, I think), opted to remake their system along US lines (eg, first degree, masters, then doctorate or equivalent), if only to make international education much easier, more comparable and transferable.

Perhaps others can point out threads exploring this second topic that I haven't seen yet" Or else maybe both topics deserve their own threads in other forum areas?

As one example of American decline, let me offer the case of Edward Snowden and his nearly two-year-old NSA expose, summarized in the documentary "Citizen Four." (Listening to Snowden speak consumes the most arresting parts of the film, to me.)

Snowden says that he wants the old, playful, open and free and welcoming era of the internet, the one that existed before 9/11, to come back! He says it is the self-censorship of expression that's killing internet freedom. Towards the film's end, he says he thinks that he's been successful.

I disagree. Snowden thinks that after his revelations, there is now a debate over privacy versus Big Government surveillance. I think this is clearly wrong.

There is no debate in the US, or else we would do the simplest of things, at least - like having the FISA Court that authorizes subpoenas for government spying on people have privacy and Constitutional advocates to oppose the spy-bureaucrats before the panel of judges.

If even this obvious step cannot be be done, then who can seriously say "Snowden won" in getting a debate about government surveillance versus privacy started? We can't. Therefore, I weep for this nation's future too.

Well. I've strayed from my more "focused" goal. I have to agree that it is difficult to seriously discuss expatriation without defining - or at least offering examples of - motivating dissatisfactions.

This is indeed a useful collection of text you have offered.

More sober, the Dominican Republic seems a poor second passport option for the same reason as the Phillipines... Islands kinda suck if it turns out you need to leave in a hurry. The Phillipines has petite Al Queda on Midano and the DR has the failed state of Haiti on the other side of the Island.

I haven't given Mexico too much though as anything other than a waypoint. Anywhere the US has too much of a "Drug War" presence seems to hold a rather high risk of succumbing to an "accident" or "nailgun suicide" but then again... Every place has risks.

One particularly encouraging thing about Argentina is that it seems no matter what happens there their economic situation is destined to get worse which could be very fun and profitable. Another big plus is the general ineptness and independence of government institutions and actors within them in Argentina. The downside to Argentina is people in Buenos Aires view themselves as New Yorkers in a time when New York mattered in spite of living in a poor country. For all of its faults in many other places the people living in the poor country realize they are poor.

Perhaps I haven't given enough thought to labor poor countries as I maybe have should. Russia ought to definitely be on the table for certain classes of US expatriates, but I doubt I am that interesting. With regards to the Snowden/citizenfour business the only clear takeaway I came with is that actual western dissidents ought to not trust Greenwald. I know personally of small efforts underway which move in the direction of "Snowden Winning" by introducing actually trustworthy and auditable computing and encryption tools, but... doing such things without a chip foundry is a hard problem.

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

(04-17-2015 01:24 AM)BBinger Wrote:  

The downside to Argentina is people in Buenos Aires view themselves as New Yorkers in a time when New York mattered in spite of living in a poor country. For all of its faults in many other places the people living in the poor country realize they are poor.

The thing is many Argentines have grown-up in a nostalgic society that bitterly remembers the mid-20th century and how well-off their country was and compare it to the present.

[BBinger]

(04-17-2015 01:59 AM)Porfirio Rubirosa Wrote:  

(04-17-2015 01:24 AM)BBinger Wrote:  

The downside to Argentina is people in Buenos Aires view themselves as New Yorkers in a time when New York mattered in spite of living in a poor country. For all of its faults in many other places the people living in the poor country realize they are poor.

The thing is many Argentines have grown-up in a nostalgic society that bitterly remembers the mid-20th century and how well-off their country was and compare it to the present.

Really Argentina is a bizzaro version of the US, sub Italian influence for Anglos.

[The Beast1]

I've been planning on renouncing my citizenship. Personally I feel that the US is an abhorrent decadent empire that is in decline. I don't want to be associated with that or have some extra-judicial process to bring me back to this 50 state prison. I plan on getting a european passport.

If you want to give up your citizenship, you will need to have a fall back citizenship otherwise the state department will refuse to process your application.

If you already have dual citizenship, the process is simple:
1. Book an appointment at the nearest US embassy or consulate.
2. Bring new proof of citizenship.
3. Any tax documents (you will have to pay an exit tax).
4. Filled out process forms (see second link below)

The process is outlined here http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/115645.pdf and http://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-guide...-passport/
The second link will have a full list of forms you need filled out.

[Stompin_Tom]

Some more food for thought regarding US expatriation - I read last night that the US population is projected to be 40% white by 2050. It was 90% in 1950 with the remaining 10% being mainly blacks. A 50% drop in whites in 100 years. That's impressive.

Now imagine yourself landing in the JFK airport after a stint in the Philippines in 2050. Almost no one will look or talk like you. Welcome home! I had this experience recently in the Toronto airport. I envy the places I travel to because they still have a place to call home.

[Brodiaga]

There are two different things: expartiating and giving up your citizenship. While it's a great idea for every guy to spend some time abroad, giving up your US citizenship is just a stupid idea for most people and here's why.

-Most US citizens who live and work abroad don't have to pay taxes in the US because of tax treaties. If you earn less than about 100k/year abroad and work for a foreign company, you won't have to pay taxes on foreign income. If you work for yourself, you still have to pay social security and medicare contributions, but this leads to my next point.

-Let's say you get out of the US permanently and move somewhere like the Philippines (or Brazil or whatever). Right now you are young and healthy, but what happens when you turn 65? Who's going to take care of you if (or when) you get sick? In the US, there's Medicare, Medicaid, SSI, even retirement homes paid for by Medicaid. For old people, there's a basic safety net. A hospital won't kick you out if you can't pay. Do you now that, for example, in Russia, ambulances often don't come if the patient is old because old people are going to die soon anyway?

-Most people from the US and other developed countries never experienced the hassle of getting a visa in advance if you have a shitty passport. Imagine spending a couple of days to get a visa to France if you want to visit Paris for a few days. Or not being able to get a visa at all. Or not being able to travel around Asia or South America because you have to apply for a visa to visit every fucking country on your itinerary.

-As a US citizen, you can get protection from the Embassy if you get in trouble. People from undeveloped countries have nowhere to go to in this case.

-You can get sick of living abroad at some point and change your mind and want to come back. Having a US passport will give you that option.

[Orson]

(04-17-2015 06:59 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

There are two different things: expatriating and giving up your citizenship. While it's a great idea for every guy to spend some time abroad, giving up your US citizenship is just a stupid idea for most people and here's why....

These are valid points. And for many people, these are also important considerations!

But some people have fewer and fewer family ties to their home country, and plenty of points raised about convenience and familiarity mean ties with the US matter less and less. Another perspective is that 'safety net' is threatened by being fiscally and demographically unsustainable - the US has too much debt and is wildly and irresponsibly committed to much too much more to make reliance on it certainly irrational. (Just do the math.)

And then there are thers have different motivations - and one rising rationale might be simply "voting with one's feet." The Beast1, for instance, appears to fall into that category.

Look at the statistics. Late in the Bush years, permanent expatriation grew up to four times; under Obama, the last time I looked it grew eight times.

You can brandish this all as "stupid," but SOMETHING is motivating this self-exilation - and I don't think it is because of the good government, prosperity, and superior lifestyle found the US. There is a rising tide of dissatisfaction unseen before.

[Felix 5000]

........

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

(04-18-2015 03:48 AM)JamesRodri Wrote:  

(04-15-2015 05:12 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Best is if you can become a citizen of an EU country or better Switzerland or Norway. Then have a Green-card for the US. That settles most issues.

I can think of nothing worse than being a Norwegian citizen. Norway has a wealth tax. Like Americans, Norway taxes it's citizens on their worldwide income, but takes it even one step further and extends that to your world wide assets!

About 1% of everything you own every year.

To the OP, I'd move to Thailand were I you. It's easier than the Philippines and more fun. It's also more civilised.

Green: No income tax on individuals
Light Blue: Territorial
Dark Blue: Residential
Pink: Citizenship-based

With a Norwegian passport you could live in an EEA country with lower taxes; you'll be fine as long as Norway isn't your primary place-of-residence.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Hehe - fine Norway is good for making a decent wage, but the citizenship is another matter. Did not know about the wealth tax, but there are a few other countries which impose that currently. Switzerland supposedly has such a tax, but that is not relevant in most cantons there.

In most instances if you have to worry about a wealth tax, then you should have more than 7 digits in assets anyway.