[PHC19]

(04-17-2015 03:34 AM)sixsix Wrote:  

Definitely touch your chest.

It is a 'real' bench press, like doing proper squats.
It provides a fixed point where you pause (lower slowly, keep tension, don't rest on chest).
Otherwise, as you see with many guys, the bar follows an unstable and variable path.
E.g. first rep 2" from chest, second rep 4" from chest.
Then, if you lose control and lower it more than usual, your shoulder can get fucked.

If you switch to this, first considerably lower the weights so your shoulders can adapt.
In the end a full ROM makes you stronger instead of just bigger.

This.

[Hades]

(04-15-2015 10:12 AM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

Similarly, on dips, do you guys stop once your arms are at 90 or do you go lower? Didn't mean to hijack the thread but since we are on chest exercises might as well.

I go until my thumbs touch my armpits.
You can do "partial" dips for mass reps to increase strength in them, but you should always go as low in the hole as possible. Otherwise working up to a muscle up is going to be a considerable challenge.

[kosko]

(04-17-2015 10:33 AM)PHC19 Wrote:  

(04-13-2015 12:33 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

Should you use the whole range of motion, meaning that you hit your chest with the bar or do you just lower the bar till your arms form a 90° angle?

I googled it and people mostly say that you have to use the full rom, but whats your take on the matter and why?

Powerlifting to Win has some pretty extensive analysis of bench form.

Powerlifting also has regulation benches where they keep form 100% consitant.

This thread has no cohesiveness in a general theme for answers.

I find this break though technology works wonders I. Getting any issues on arm movement and ROM...

Use Dumbells.

Simple. Effective. Done.

[whitenoise]

no, there is absolutely no reason why you need to touch your chest. just a moment's reflection would reveal this - think about the huge variety of body types and what that means for the bar path. plenty of big chests have been built without using barbell powerlifting legal bench presses, which is all you really need to know.

it's a trade-off of course. more ROM means more work but it absolutely can compromise your shoulders, no matter your form. there's a reason why we don't all deadlift off foot high blocks...

in a way, this isn't a super important question because you should use dumbbells primarily for chest. much easier on the shoulders, more chest activation. it's a no brainer.

[Saweeep]

Let's be honest here...the main reason non-athlete/competitors i.e your average gym goer doesn't use a full ROM is so they can put more weight on the bar.

I also see too many guys not gripping the bar wide enough; as a result they put too much strain on the shoulders and never feel the amazing sensation of the chest "stretch" at the bottom of the rep.

Whitenoise, I really don't like the tendency people have on this particular board to say things like "you should xyz (in your case"use bumbles for chest")" as if it's some sort of inarguable fact. Especially when said with no real explanation for what is ultimately an opinion, not fact.

Don't take it personally; it's just something that seems to be happening with greater and greater frequency and just adds to the white noise of internet gym-bro-science.

[Kamikaze]

This is a personal thing. Some guys swear by full range of motion, others believe in protracted reps to keep constant tension on the muscle. Check out this vid of the Hodge Twins training chest with Kali Muscle from 0:28 to about 1:10

As the Hodge Twins say:

Quote:

Some of y'all will say that's bad form, he's doing half-reps... Hey, if you wanna tell this dude, as big as he is, that he doesn't know what he's doing, go ahead and do it. But I think he knows what he's doing.

I second the use of dumbbells mostly, though not exclusively. I use dumbbells to really push to failure, not the barbell.

Edit: some of you saying not going full range of motion helps you do higher weight. Try what Kali does in the above video, keeping tension on the chest throughout the entire set. You'll be surprised that you'll probably have to do less weight, the twins do less too.

Don't knock it till you try it.

[Saweeep]

^^^

There's one major difference between most of us and them though...

[H1N1]

(04-22-2015 05:06 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

^^^

There's one major difference between most of us and them though...

It's the lifting gloves, isn't it?! Man, I knew that was all that stood between me and killer gains. Should never have listened when they said only pussies wear gloves.

[Hades]

I'm not sure there's a lot that can be learned from Kali Muscle, outside of if you stick to a story, however unbelievable, some people will accept it.

[Blackwell]

If your tall with long arms you don't have to be bringing the bar low. Some can but you only really need to bring it down just enough to get a little stretch and some tension on your pecs.

It may take a year, it may take 5 but rest assured if your repeatedly bench press heavy weights multiple times a week lowering the bar too much and stressing your shoulders you will pay the price.

Don't listen to the has to be full ROM crowd. Not everybody is the same height, width or has the same skeletal and joint structure. It's all bullshit.

Full disclosure I don't even bench press anymore because my shoulders can't take it anymore. My rotator cuffs flare up bad for up to a week after a session and I can't even lift my arms above my head.

I just use dumbells now and never have any problems. They just seem to allow a free and more natural range of motion that is easier on your joints over time.

You have to consider what doing repetitive stressful exercises will do to your body long term when you carry them out multiple times a week. Some people just aren't built for it.

[Kamikaze]

(04-22-2015 05:20 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(04-22-2015 05:06 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

^^^

There's one major difference between most of us and them though...

It's the lifting gloves, isn't it?! Man, I knew that was all that stood between me and killer gains. Should never have listened when they said only pussies wear gloves.

(04-22-2015 07:38 AM)Hades Wrote:  

I'm not sure there's a lot that can be learned from Kali Muscle, outside of if you stick to a story, however unbelievable, some people will accept it.

So if Barry Bonds were to give you advice on your baseball swing, you'd be like 'Nah, I'm good,' just because he was on gear?

Not saying Kali is the Barry Bonds of lifting, but because a guy is roided up doesn't mean his advice is not sound, nor does it make it absolutely right either. Discounting an argument just based on that is not good debating.

I used to be a full ROM guy. But I see a few benefits to 3/5 movements, as say, Larry Scott does:

Namely, the way I've been doing it, I get tired faster which is a plus for me because I like to get out of the gym quickly, and it feels like a much safer movement. I also feel a much more exhausting pump. Basically, it feels fucking good.

Again, full ROM seems like a logical thing. But really, physiologically, there are very few scenarios where a person would do a barbell bench press in a real-world setting. We are proposing a full 'natural' motion for a movement that actually isn't very 'natural.'

Finally, have you tried the 3/5 motion? If you haven't, give it a shot. If it ain't for you, it ain't for you. But don't discount people's experience, especially when they look like Larry Scott or Kali Muscle, and especially when you haven't tried it out yourself.

[Repo]

@ Kamakazi

I've done 3/5s before, their very intensive. I don't thinl I would ever only do it though, I would cycle it with my regular full ROM lifts.

Pause reps are great too. Bring it down all the way, hold the bar just half an inch above your chest for three to five seconds, then do a rep and repeat. Do light weights with sets of at least 8. I end my chest workouts with these, incredibly intensive.

[kbell]

Just to the chest? That's a half rep. The bar should touch the spine through the chest for the full range of movement.

[alexdagr81]

(04-17-2015 10:33 AM)PHC19 Wrote:  

(04-13-2015 12:33 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

Should you use the whole range of motion, meaning that you hit your chest with the bar or do you just lower the bar till your arms form a 90° angle?

I googled it and people mostly say that you have to use the full rom, but whats your take on the matter and why?

Powerlifting to Win has some pretty extensive analysis of bench form.

Nice find!

[Hades]

Kali is self proclaimed natty. He claims to have gotten that big in prison doing garbage bag workouts and eating ramen. Barry Bonds has nothing to do with it.

I think heavy partial lifts are very useful, as are isometrics. They make up a substantial part of my routine. Pause reps, slow eccentrics, drop sets, heavy lockouts, and anderson style reps are also useful. Lifting in general should be done as an understanding that there is much beyond the set and rep. That all being said I still think benching one-third reps not even to lockout is dumb as hell. If you're going to do partial benching you might as well lock out.

[StrikeBack]

Two reasons why guys aren't touching the bar on their chest in the bench:

1. (as Crash already mentioned) they think they can lift more. Same reason they quarter-squat.

2. They don't know how to use their chest on the bench. Simple tip: bring your chest up to meet the bar will stretch the pecs muscles and work them harder. Passively flatten the chest (and upper body) on the bench with the bar half a foot away will not work the chest much and instead destroy your shoulders.

Huge difference between that and deliberately not doing full ROM through a variation like a pin press, floor press, board press or Spoto press.

[H1N1]

(04-23-2015 08:38 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

Two reasons why guys aren't touching the bar on their chest in the bench:

1. (as Crash already mentioned) they think they can lift more. Same reason they quarter-squat.

2. They don't know how to use their chest on the bench. Simple tip: bring your chest up to meet the bar will stretch the pecs muscles and work them harder. Passively flatten the chest (and upper body) on the bench with the bar half a foot away will not work the chest much and instead destroy your shoulders.

Huge difference between that and deliberately not doing full ROM through a variation like a pin press, floor press, board press or Spoto press.

'Do you even bench, brah' clinic. Just saying.

[kbell]

I found hip location to be key. One time I lifted my hip wasn't fully on the bench and my one arm was was lifting more than the other. Not a huge amount but noticeble. I also like to have a decent foot plant on the floor. When I broke my foot I didn't do the lift since it was hard to balance with the airboot.

[philosophical_recovery]

I've always gone all the way to chest. The biggest change that kept my rotator cuffs from getting injured was tightening the shit out of my shoulder blades, locking them together, before even lifting the weight off. I've since been trying to engage my lats as much as possible, and tightening my grip more. It seems to make a difference.

I haven't been able to increase my bench while doing pauses. I touch on my chest then immediately try to explode the weight upward. Hesitating here, not exploding on the press, has caused many failed reps and zero gains.

One thing I'm going to try tomorrow, when I bench, is spreading my legs more. I think that'll help get even more of the right kind of chest arch as well as better foot drive.

[kbell]

I've been capped out at 190 lately, and my front deltoids feel tighter in a bad way. I may be overusing them in the lift.

[philosophical_recovery]

Spread my legs and went for tight tight tight shoulders, lats, and abs. Got to 210x3 on my last madcow set. Spreading legs seemed to help get put out of the sticky point at the bottom.

kbell are you doing dips and overhead pressed too? When I make gains on ohp and dips, it seems to translate to bench.

[kbell]

I do a military press with 40lb dumbbells every other week when my shoulders feel up to it. I do dips unweighted dips like 30 in 3 reps. Last time I added 10lbs with a weight belt.

[philosophical_recovery]

Last time I stalled, it was close to you. I kept on failing around 2-3 reps @ 200lbs. I backed off, back down to 185. I noticed my grip could be a little bit wider, so I widened it. I also started concentrating a lot more on tightening everything, especially abs during the press. That got me past that weight about 4 weeks later (5 pounds added a week on the Madcow stronglifts routine).

I've also been adding accessory exercises like flys & others. Getting my barbell rows up to 145ish has also seemed to help tighten my back.

Maybe try going to 175 and working your way back up. Get some more volume at lower weight.

[kbell]

I added dual 60 lb dumbbell chest press. I always seem to rotate them when I go from parallel with chest to arms full up. The hardest part of that exercise is getting up from lying down to drop the weights. Tons of abs strength needed.

I think I may take a week off benchs since my front deltoid still seem off. I think maybe some healing is order. Than going back to doing the two ways of hitting it might help. I get some discomfort if I keep my arms above my head for not long.

How do you keep your balance on a barbell row?

[philosophical_recovery]

(04-25-2015 10:18 PM)kbell Wrote:  

I added dual 60 lb dumbbell chest press. I always seem to rotate them when I go from parallel with chest to arms full up. The hardest part of that exercise is getting up from lying down to drop the weights. Tons of abs strength needed.

I think I may take a week off benchs since my front deltoid still seem off. I think maybe some healing is order. Than going back to doing the two ways of hitting it might help. I get some discomfort if I keep my arms above my head for not long.

How do you keep your balance on a barbell row?

I'm not familiar with that pain. The pain I got with bench was rotator-related and really bothered me when opening doors, not lifting overhead.

For barbell row I get my back as horizontal as possible, with a tight of a core as possible. I keep my knees slightly bent and try to keep my neck neutral, touching my chest each time. Focus on quick pull to the chest and a slow lowering down to the starting position.

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