[alteca]

When I get girls on first dates, I don't know what I'm doing wrong that make them not see me again for a second date.

On a typical second date, I take them to a cool lounge. I get some drinks and I talk to them. As I'm talking to them, I'm grabbing their hand and releasing it (sexual tension). I say some stories about my travels, what I do, etc. In all of this, I'm being playful, joking a bit, and being physical. Then when I try to kiss them, I go no where. And I never see them again after this. I seriously don't get it and it's making me crazy angry!

Has this ever happened to you guys? If so, what have you done to turn your game around?

[Geekzor]

(04-11-2015 04:36 AM)alteca Wrote:  

When I get girls on first dates, I don't know what I'm doing wrong that make them not see me again for a second date.

On a typical second date, I take them to a cool lounge. I get some drinks and I talk to them. As I'm talking to them, I'm grabbing their hand and releasing it (sexual tension). I say some stories about my travels, what I do, etc. In all of this, I'm being playful, joking a bit, and being physical. Then when I try to kiss them, I go no where. And I never see them again after this. I seriously don't get it and it's making me crazy angry!

Has this ever happened to you guys? If so, what have you done to turn your game around?

First you have to elaborate more so you get the help or advice you're looking for. What do you do on the first date? how's the interaction? did you build enough rapport? and I think the important question is how you get them to go on a date in the first place.

What you're doing on the second date is what should be done in the first date, If I number close a girl and we set a date to hangout I usually go for the kiss or bang on that same day ( Read Rooshs articles on his blog regarding dates ). Sure thing that does not usually happen, but as I've recently started the Roosh program I'm learning as I go and till now the most effective advice/tip I feel that it works as a charm is to go as far as you can on your date. Don't postpone that kind of interaction to your second date, hell you should be trying to get as intimate as possible on your first date through the following:

-Building comfort (assuming you already have the foundations for that since she agreed to go on a date with you)

-Escalating (You have to use the Search feature on the forum, plenty of good tips on that)

-Rapport, dropping bait, rambling and I've put these together because I feel that they are connected (You ramble while dropping some bait in your talk, which gets her to talk or ask you about something hence building your rapport according to the bait you dropped)


As for the kiss close, till now I've figured that when a woman is not receptive to a kiss it is because I did not build enough physical comfort and sometimes it is because of the environment (Her friends are around,ect) But is usually, and I would say 70% of the time, due to the lack of sexual tension. My advice would be to read Roosh article and to use the search feature on the forums, there are many posts by experienced members that I'm sure will give you a proper insight.

[alteca]

(04-11-2015 06:00 AM)Geekzor Wrote:  

What do you do on the first date? how's the interaction? did you build enough rapport? and I think the important question is how you get them to go on a date in the first place.

Hi Geelzor. To answer your questions, on a first date I take them to a lounge and order drinks. The interaction isn't as good as when we first met. I start by doing some palm reading and teasing. Then I grab her hand again and get her closer to me. We talk about mundane things like what we do, etc. I don't think I build enough rapport. When I find things in common, there are still no sparks. When I try to kiss them, they kind of back off politely. I get them on a first date by telling them that I know a cool place to go to.

Quote:

I'm learning as I go and till now the most effective advice/tip I feel that it works as a charm is to go as far as you can on your date. Don't postpone that kind of interaction to your second date, hell you should be trying to get as intimate as possible on your first date through the following:

-Building comfort (assuming you already have the foundations for that since she agreed to go on a date with you)

-Escalating (You have to use the Search feature on the forum, plenty of good tips on that)

-Rapport, dropping bait, rambling and I've put these together because I feel that they are connected (You ramble while dropping some bait in your talk, which gets her to talk or ask you about something hence building your rapport according to the bait you dropped)

When you say drop bait, I assume you mean leave out specific details from your topics so that she can ask more about them. I've begun to do this but I should do it more often, I admit.

Quote:

As for the kiss close, till now I've figured that when a woman is not receptive to a kiss it is because I did not build enough physical comfort and sometimes it is because of the environment (Her friends are around,ect) But is usually, and I would say 70% of the time, due to the lack of sexual tension.

I encounter that lack of sexual tension myself in my interactions also. What would you recommend for that?

[Geekzor]

well the first thing that caught my eye that you said and I quote "We talk about mundane things like what we do" and I wanted to know does the interaction at this stage go into an interview style? because if it is then that is one thing you should improve. If you feel the conversation is mundane then probably she thinks the same way or atleast picking the vibes off you which is killing your rapport big time.

I do understand that such questions are boring, but they are the same questions that will get your conversation going or opens a window of opportunity for you to drop bait so it is up to you to convey them in an interesting manner and that can only come by learning to talk in general. When you learn to ramble you learn how to keep things going in a convo and I may not be the best rambler there is, but I did get better and now the conversation part is not an issue aslong as I got myself in the mood to talk. I practiced rambling by doing the following:

1-Roosh says watch an episode of Seinfeld a day as it is the perfect example of rambling.
2- I interact with anyone no matter age/sex on a daily basis, just open that old guy on the subway, chat with this girl and her dog in the park, talk to that old lady buying cat food at the store..just talk.

As for dropping bait, it comes with conversational skills, you just don't give full answers to up your mysteriousness, to get her to ask more, also you might say something along these lines:

You: Ya that bracelet reminds me of an old gypsy in Romania, that was the most weird encounter I ever had.
She: really what happened? / you went to Romania what did you do? ---> Hence rambling.

Look Bait doesn't mean baiting her and getting you pussy, it is just a way to get her engaged and increases the comfort level in the interaction it is a means to an end.

Now regarding the lack of sexual tension, think about this, if you the guy who wants to bang that girl that you asked her out, can't feel sexual tension then how should she feel it? Again vibes vibes vibes. If there is a lack of sexual tension in an interaction I'm having, it is because I didn't escalate properly, plain and simple. There's no manual to a proper escalation, it just takes practice.
Ofcourse the palm reading and all of that is OK kino I supposed, but are you making subtle kino to make her comfortable with your touch?
A light touch on the forearm, putting your arms around her waist lightly as you maneuver through the crowd at the bar? then you sit down and have a good eye contact as you ramble about something THEN you do the palm reading, maybe as she talks reach out and tuck her hair behind her ears if its dangling with a straight face as if that's how I roll. These are not ofcourse from the ACME manual of seduction it is just to show you that kino has to be escalated, it is like a meter from 1-100 you don't switch it on and off you rather go from 1 to 100%

Hope this helped out, and again you shouldn't wait for the second date, do all of that on day one, try to go as far as you can and keep on approaching you will get better as you do it more. Here are some articles I think you should give a read.

http://www.rooshv.com/how-to-pick-up-girls-for-real
http://www.rooshv.com/7-things-a-guy-can...-right-now

[Spider]

If she's agreed to go on a 2nd date with you, she's obviously into you and probably already thinking about having sex with you.

I would look at your sexual escalation a little more and make sure you're making it clear to the girl that you're a masculine guy who wants to connect but also wants to fuck. She likes you enough to see you again, she's probably waiting for you to make a more serious move.

You don't always have to go for the kiss at the bar/venue...some girls don't like PDA and often times it works in your favor to build up a lot of sexual tension and actually wait until you get her back to your place to kiss her.

Squeezing her hand may not be enough to show her your physical intent. Build rapport and tell stories about your life and travels, but alternate that with sexual honesty - get handsy with her and tell her you think there's something really sexy about her. Let her know verbally that you find her desirable, tell her you'd kiss her if there weren't so many people around.

Try being a little more hot/cold where you engage in typical rapport building conversation while being blunt and sexual with her. Lastly, don't focus so much on finding things in common with your girls. Just focus on having a fun conversation. Sometimes the dates where I just tease the girl and make it fun while learning hardly anything about her, are actually the best ones.

[Dalaran1991]

(04-13-2015 01:53 AM)Spider Wrote:  

If she's agreed to go on a 2nd date with you, she's obviously into you and probably already thinking about having sex with you.

I would look at your sexual escalation a little more and make sure you're making it clear to the girl that you're a masculine guy who wants to connect but also wants to fuck. She likes you enough to see you again, she's probably waiting for you to make a more serious move.

You don't always have to go for the kiss at the bar/venue...some girls don't like PDA and often times it works in your favor to build up a lot of sexual tension and actually wait until you get her back to your place to kiss her.

Squeezing her hand may not be enough to show her your physical intent. Build rapport and tell stories about your life and travels, but alternate that with sexual honesty - get handsy with her and tell her you think there's something really sexy about her. Let her know verbally that you find her desirable, tell her you'd kiss her if there weren't so many people around.

Try being a little more hot/cold where you engage in typical rapport building conversation while being blunt and sexual with her. Lastly, don't focus so much on finding things in common with your girls. Just focus on having a fun conversation. Sometimes the dates where I just tease the girl and make it fun while learning hardly anything about her, are actually the best ones.

Great advice Spider.

Question: what if you've known the girls for a while but never really game her? It has happened to me that there are a few girls I know in social circles but never really talk to, but then eventually I find myself hanging out with them alone whereas usually it was in a group setting (i.e, went out with this girl to dance twice, but she gave me no signal to escalate)

Its tricky, cant say Ive been friendzoned because I never really engaged them or do anything orbiter-like, but theres something about the vibe that is just non-sexual and hard to break, as if it wasnt even a date

[brick tamland]

I've had my battles going on dates and I had to learn. Looking back, a date (as we traditionally understand it) is a gamble. Just like a gamble, very rarely will most men profit from it. To keep my answer relevant I submit this - there's a miniscule probability that you'll raise her attraction by going on that 1st and then that 2nd date. The communication BEFORE the prissy 1st date is decisive. I've had girls go from warm before 1st date to cold after it. Asking a girl you haven't banged to go on a 'traditional' prim and proper date implies that YOU are proving yourself to her (girls don't understand it any other way) - keep it simple because no number of negs will change this framework. And so we go further along the slippery slope - objectively speaking the 1st date was a flop (because you know what your preferred outcome was). Yet you still ask her to go on a 2nd date, mistakenly hoping it will be different this time and that you'll score.
The cause of the difficulties are - dates make girls defensive, judgmental, critical etc. The dynamic is not in your favour. It is a pitch and you put her on a pedestal. It's the same sort of prejudicial 'IF-THEN' logic that Rollo has written about. IF we go on a prissy date at a nice place , eat good food and I'm dressed well and I tell her I'm an engineer and I've travelled to 5 continents etc THEN she'll like me more and be open to sleep with me. Rollo Tomassi says girls don't use that same type of logic. That's why it doesn't work.

I started reading more and the experienced players all say they very rarely do the prissy dates. They say its better to have an interesting life and get a girl to go out by just asking them to join you while you do a certain activity at a particular time. Thus you avoid the numerous uncontrollable factors that go hand in hand with prissy dates (such as bitch shields and the pedestal).

[Feo]

Don't go on dates. Take her somewhere that would make her roommate jealous when she recounts the story.

[WestIndianArchie]

Your first sentence doesn't jive with the second.

In any event, in your description, all I hear is "me, me, me".

What are these bitches saying and doing while you're yammering on about your life changing trip to Easton, Pennsylvania?

You're losing these bitches the same way most lames lose bitches. They talk about and brag on themselves.

In a date situation, at the front end you're doing 90% of the conversation.
That doesn't mean you're talking about yourself 100% of the time. You might be yakking about your day, current events, your hopes and dreams - but if you aren't designing the conversation for her to jump and show you a little of her world - YOU'RE LOSING.

When I take a chick out, I might talk 60% of the time, but the chick is revealing 100% of who she is - and by telling me about herself - SHE FEELS CLOSER.

"I can't believe I just told you that"

So she's investing. Meanwhile, a chick might not be sure of what I do for a living, or where I live. She still feels like she knows me. So her guard comes down. Touching her is met with enthusiasm, not reluctance. If there's good food, good music, good alcohol - well, that's all she wrote.

By your description, I'm betting these bitches ain't investing in the conversation, thus not investing in you. You're just another lame braggart.

Step your game up. You need her to talk about herself, you need to talk about yourself less.

WIA

[Spider]

(04-13-2015 03:24 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Great advice Spider.

Question: what if you've known the girls for a while but never really game her? It has happened to me that there are a few girls I know in social circles but never really talk to, but then eventually I find myself hanging out with them alone whereas usually it was in a group setting (i.e, went out with this girl to dance twice, but she gave me no signal to escalate)

Its tricky, cant say Ive been friendzoned because I never really engaged them or do anything orbiter-like, but theres something about the vibe that is just non-sexual and hard to break, as if it wasnt even a date

You can either go full-force or just test the waters.

1. Treat her like you would any girl you're trying to bang at a club or bar. Maybe wait till you guys are out or at a party where you're both a little buzzed and ramp up the touching, teasing, statements of sexual intent. Let her know straight up that you want her and see what happens.

2. Otherwise you can just test things out by teasing a little more than normal and by making more physical contact. Touch her arm when you're speaking, put your hand on her lower back or around her shoulder etc. and if she moves away or looks at you funny leave it alone and continue being 'social circle friends.' If she doesn't react or seems to like it, sexualize like above.

[Il Bersagliere]

I had a 2nd date a while back that was a complete disaster. I decided not to open my mouth and stay in my head for the entire interaction. She drove the conversation forward and it simply became awkward after a while. Our first meeting had a slightly sexual vibe to it, but I needed to establish more rapport.

Rapport and comfort, imo should be Day 2.

[Sonoma]

@Dalaran,

Follow the advice above, and I'd recommend alcohol be involved. She's not into when she's buzzed, she definitely won't be into it sober.

I've kissed a few girls and then been put right back into the friendzone while drinking, and the alcohol keeps it from being an awkward friendship ending blowout

[Rawmeo]

Keep some mystery. You shouldn't talk about yourself that much. Make her talk about herself. The more you ramble about yourself, the more you will burn yourself. Talk and say something about yourself if you see that the conversation is getting ankward or boring. Or just bounce place.

[alteca]

(04-20-2015 07:21 AM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

Keep some mystery. You shouldn't talk about yourself that much. Make her talk about herself. The more you ramble about yourself, the more you will burn yourself. Talk and say something about yourself if you see that the conversation is getting ankward or boring. Or just bounce place.

Hi Rawmeo. Sadly, that's what I've been doing on dates, which is to talk about myself and not be mysterious. I assume that if she asks me questions about me, I should either change topic or talk about myself but leave a chunk about myself hidden. Would this be correct?

And before a conversation gets boring, what should I talk about?

[ordinaryleastsquared]

(04-15-2015 08:58 AM)Il Bersagliere Wrote:  

I had a 2nd date a while back that was a complete disaster. I decided not to open my mouth and stay in my head for the entire interaction. She drove the conversation forward and it simply became awkward after a while. Our first meeting had a slightly sexual vibe to it, but I needed to establish more rapport.

Rapport and comfort, imo should be Day 2.

No. Search for the 'Hug Close' post I made 6 months ago while still getting back into game.

Set up your first dates, and your interactions, to get the girl back to your place and then escalate. Rapport and comfort + sex (or at least a raunchy make out) should be day 1.

If that doesn't happen, keep it fun (for whatever reasons) and make sure it happens on the 2nd.

[Roardog]

I think how I talk to girls on dates is one of the things I need to improve on.
However I'm a bit confused about how you're supposed to do most of the talking on the first date and yet get her to talk about herself and you reveal as little as possible about yourself?