[younggun]

I find as a Canadian, I tend to follow American politics more than those of my own country.

For this year's election, I am of voting age and I'm not entirely sure what to think I'm curious as to what some RVF members think.

I personally haven't seen anything wrong with Harper. To be fair, I am an engineering student and the oil sands could be my future, so Harper would be the obvious choice. The only people I've seen complain about him are left wing nutjobs.

Trudeau seems like our version of Obama, but his father was apparently a great PM (before my time) so who knows. The NDP's seem way too left wing for me, promising lots of gold at the expense of the taxpayers.

I believe in lower taxes, fewer services. I hate the idea of supplying money to services I will never need. On that principle, which candidate would align most with my thinking?

[Tytalus]

As another Canadian, your only choice is Conservative or fringe parties.

Trudeau Jr, IMO, is being very carefully managed by the senior liberal party who want their turn on the gravy train again. His father was a good PM in some ways (getting the government out of the population's bedroom) but a terrible, terrible fiscal leader. Trudeau is saying whatever the hell will get him elected and putting a bit of his own spin on things. Really, this guy needed another 10 years in parliament to really get his feet wet in politics and learn the system. Instead we have a neophyte with no power, no influence in his own party, and beholden to hidden masters within his own ranks.

The NDP have a centrist leader, who I think the party will chuck ASAP if they get in power and replace Mulcair with a properly crazy nutjob that will fulfill the feminist agenda.

I don't think the Conservatives are a great party, their moderately competent only in some areas. I'd give them a score of 4.5/10. It's just that the other parties, ARE WORSE.

That said, if your riding has a truly amazing one in a generation candidate who is a Liberal or NDP, who despite the party, you think is really the kind of man/woman who should represent your riding, vote for 'em.

[Suits]

He's a dickhead with a smug attitude and smile.

I'm also of the opinion that precisely who is prime minister is mostly irrelevant.

I haven't voted in years and I'm not even technically a Canadian resident any more, as of this year.

[Laner]

Quote:

That said, if your riding has a truly amazing one in a generation candidate who is a Liberal or NDP, who despite the party, you think is really the kind of man/woman who should represent your riding, vote for 'em.

This is how I vote first.

That said Canada needed a guy like Harper, and even though Canadians have been bitching about him non stop, he stays in power. I think that many Canadians agree that a man who gets things done and does not seem worried about what others think of him. Just look at him when he tries to come across as human. Its hilarious.

He really is a strange man, but who cares. Charismatic leaders are often ineffective anyway.

Canada cant afford Liberal or especially NDP governments right now. Conservative might not always be my first choice, but lately its been nice not having to get pissed off with Canada leadership.

[kosko]

He is a cunt. I ussually leave that word for wacked out females but the title fits his style very much.

He is proof the Canadian system does not work as I believe he has only carried the proportion of the popular vote once but has maintained power for over 10 years.

He has stayed on so long to see his coveted majority Government and he has wasted no time in dismantling the nation behind the scenes with new terror laws, folly fighter planes, super prisons, the destruction of the best Stats/Data body on earth, and further destruction of the economy by letting the largest Real Estate bubble balloon to a size greater in proportion to the USA housing crisis in 2007-2008. Canada will be critical hurt once that bubble pops and he will likley be gone once it happens but it was all his doing. It was the only way to get marginal growth in a slowed economy and he sold out the future for it.

His done this all while still being a weirdo who has the vibe of that nerdy kid in school nobody could get along with because with being so smart and nerd he was still a pompous piece of shit.

Trudeau I don't like either. He is wishy washy and does not stand for anything. He sounds like a robot alot of the times as leader, he hasn't had a concrete vision or goal since he was promoted. Plus he is a closet bisexual and I don't trust a dude who leans like that and won't even be frank about it. Not like anybody in Canada would give a shit anyway.

[komatiite]

Quote:

but his father was apparently a great PM

If you plan to move to Alberta and work in oil then you better not say anything good about Pierre Trudeau, and his National Energy Program from 1980 to 1985- you will not be too popular out here!

Basically, in 1973, the Yom Kippur War between Israel and Egypt prompted OPEC to establish an oil embargo for nations that supported Israel, namely, the United States. Canada had discovered massive oil pools in Leduc, Alberta in 1947, and began a productive oil business. But after the embargo, the US needed a new source for oil amid skyrocketing oil prices, so they turned to Canada. Almost overnight, Alberta became the dominant economy in Canada due to the petroleum business. American investment in Canada increased and more and more people from the West made fortunes. In 1979, another 'oil crisis' occurred as global output of oil fell due to the Iranian Revolution, and once again, oil prices climbed and the oil companies in Calgary raked in the cash. However, this made manufacturing out East expensive, as people in Ontario and Quebec struggled to economically adjust to higher energy prices.

The 1980 federal election was a massive turning point in Canadian political history- Trudeau won a majority government, despite having not won a single seat in BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan, but 74/75 seats in Quebec and another 52 in Ontario. As his base was out East, he clearly needed to appease them, so he implemented the National Energy Program (NEP). The plan had three principles:
1) security of supply and ultimate independence from the world oil market;
2) opportunity for all Canadians to participate in the energy industry; particularly oil and gas, and to share in the benefits of its expansion; and
3) fairness, with a pricing and revenue-sharing regime which recognizes the needs and rights of all Canadians.
The third point was the kicker- Trudeau set a ceiling on the selling price of Canadian oil, meaning that Alberta had to sell Ontario and Quebec oil below market value. As well, he levied an export tax, meaning that profit on every barrel of oil sold to the USA went directly to the feds. He established Petro-Canada as the nationalized oil company, which used these tax dollars to compete with private Albertan companies.

Due to the high oil prices across the globe, manufacturing declined, and a glut of oil in the world market led to a price collapse in the early 1980s. Still, Alberta was penalized for selling oil to Americans and could not sell their oil at market price to Easterners due to the NEP, and the economies of oil-producing provinces collapsed. Trudeau became public enemy #1 as unemployment soared out West, and Petro-Canada Square became known as Red Square to the locals.

This led to the concept of 'Western Alienation.' The Liberals didn't have the interests of the West in mind as their entire base was out East, which began the rise of the Reform Party. in 1987, Preston Manning kicked off the party, which preached Conservative values, a hard-right rise in response to what many saw as a spineless federal Progressive Conservative party led by Brian Mulroney that still pandered to Eastern interests. The influence of the party slowly rose over time, and after Jean Chretien destroyed the federal PCs in 1993, the Reform became the face of conservatives in Canada. They became the Official Opposition in 1997, and slowly gained prominence through the rest of the country. They became the Alliance in 2000, and finally merged with the remaining PCs in 2003, creating the current Conservative party. They continued to gain seats, forcing the Liberals into minority governments in 2004 and 2006, finally winning in 2008.

Stephen Harper is the result of the NEP, without a question. It took almost 20 years, but the Reform party, initially a bunch of Christian hard-right conservatives, managed to evolve to more moderate Conservatives we see today, and Stephen Harper is the face of this transition that the Reformers had to undergo in order to appeal to the rest of Canada. Some people, especially your elite Toronto types, resent the rise of Western influence in Canadian politics, but personally, I think Harper has done a solid job as leader. The economy has been strong, as shown by Canada's impressive stand during the so-called Great Recession of 2008. He isn't Obama in terms of riling up the public, but he has been the steady hand Canada has needed after decades of Liberal, Ontario-focused dominance. Compare him to Justin Trudeau, a former substitute drama teacher (who admittedly has great hair) with no formal education in law or economics and only a few years as an MP & is ditzier than a blonde chick. It's a no brainer in my opinion, but I'm a redneck oil industry guy from the prairies, so I am obviously biased

[kosko]

East of Manitoba P.E. Trudeau was the man. Old school nationalist, and I view him as no different then the nationalist of the era such as Nasser whom had grand ideas for his country, maybe not all panned out but he didn't ever do things small. People forget Canada was still UKs bitch via the Monarch and Westminster also could fuck around with us if it wanted until he got us out of 100% bondage.

Dude couldn't solve the Quebec question though. Threw his hands up when that was log jammed. Honestly his time was the only interesting time in modern Canadian history, its all oatmeal shit aside from that.

(03-01-2015 01:30 AM)komatiite Wrote:  

Quote:

but his father was apparently a great PM

If you plan to move to Alberta and work in oil then you better not say anything good about Pierre Trudeau, and his National Energy Program from 1980 to 1985- you will not be too popular out here!

Basically, in 1973, the Yom Kippur War between Israel and Egypt prompted OPEC to establish an oil embargo for nations that supported Israel, namely, the United States. Canada had discovered massive oil pools in Leduc, Alberta in 1947, and began a productive oil business. But after the embargo, the US needed a new source for oil amid skyrocketing oil prices, so they turned to Canada. Almost overnight, Alberta became the dominant economy in Canada due to the petroleum business. American investment in Canada increased and more and more people from the West made fortunes. In 1979, another 'oil crisis' occurred as global output of oil fell due to the Iranian Revolution, and once again, oil prices climbed and the oil companies in Calgary raked in the cash. However, this made manufacturing out East expensive, as people in Ontario and Quebec struggled to economically adjust to higher energy prices.

The 1980 federal election was a massive turning point in Canadian political history- Trudeau won a majority government, despite having not won a single seat in BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan, but 74/75 seats in Quebec and another 52 in Ontario. As his base was out East, he clearly needed to appease them, so he implemented the National Energy Program (NEP). The plan had three principles:
1) security of supply and ultimate independence from the world oil market;
2) opportunity for all Canadians to participate in the energy industry; particularly oil and gas, and to share in the benefits of its expansion; and
3) fairness, with a pricing and revenue-sharing regime which recognizes the needs and rights of all Canadians.
The third point was the kicker- Trudeau set a ceiling on the selling price of Canadian oil, meaning that Alberta had to sell Ontario and Quebec oil below market value. As well, he levied an export tax, meaning that profit on every barrel of oil sold to the USA went directly to the feds. He established Petro-Canada as the nationalized oil company, which used these tax dollars to compete with private Albertan companies.

Due to the high oil prices across the globe, manufacturing declined, and a glut of oil in the world market led to a price collapse in the early 1980s. Still, Alberta was penalized for selling oil to Americans and could not sell their oil at market price to Easterners due to the NEP, and the economies of oil-producing provinces collapsed. Trudeau became public enemy #1 as unemployment soared out West, and Petro-Canada Square became known as Red Square to the locals.

This led to the concept of 'Western Alienation.' The Liberals didn't have the interests of the West in mind as their entire base was out East, which began the rise of the Reform Party. in 1987, Preston Manning kicked off the party, which preached Conservative values, a hard-right rise in response to what many saw as a spineless federal Progressive Conservative party led by Brian Mulroney that still pandered to Eastern interests. The influence of the party slowly rose over time, and after Jean Chretien destroyed the federal PCs in 1993, the Reform became the face of conservatives in Canada. They became the Official Opposition in 1997, and slowly gained prominence through the rest of the country. They became the Alliance in 2000, and finally merged with the remaining PCs in 2003, creating the current Conservative party. They continued to gain seats, forcing the Liberals into minority governments in 2004 and 2006, finally winning in 2008.

Stephen Harper is the result of the NEP, without a question. It took almost 20 years, but the Reform party, initially a bunch of Christian hard-right conservatives, managed to evolve to more moderate Conservatives we see today, and Stephen Harper is the face of this transition that the Reformers had to undergo in order to appeal to the rest of Canada. Some people, especially your elite Toronto types, resent the rise of Western influence in Canadian politics, but personally, I think Harper has done a solid job as leader. The economy has been strong, as shown by Canada's impressive stand during the so-called Great Recession of 2008. He isn't Obama in terms of riling up the public, but he has been the steady hand Canada has needed after decades of Liberal, Ontario-focused dominance. Compare him to Justin Trudeau, a former substitute drama teacher (who admittedly has great hair) with no formal education in law or economics and only a few years as an MP & is ditzier than a blonde chick. It's a no brainer in my opinion, but I'm a redneck oil industry guy from the prairies, so I am obviously biased

Sounds like something out of the National Post. "Toronto elite" are you from Winnipeg or something? Last time I checked there are way more snobby rich assholes in the Lower Mainland of B.C. then in Toronto. I was with you until the last part until your bias started to show lol.

I would argue that Harper has done more to harm the national economy then Trudeau with the looming housing mess. I don't think many Canadians understand the scope of this. Here is some quick numbers. On the books Taxpayers are on the hook for $500 Billion in CMHC liabilities if prices go south and Banks can't cover their loses.

Since the the big Banks who Harper trolled as being "stable and secure" post 2008 simply just bundled all of their risk and dumped it in the Federal Agency CMHC which has liability insurance for high risk mortgages, the majority of mortgages that were issued during Canada's property rise until the Feds.. sorta.. slowed it down with deposit hikes. Household debt now equals 162% and is the highest in the developed world, 3 out of 5 Canadians have exposure to mortgages as we have one of the highest proportion of citizens whom hold housing debt also.

No other nation I can think of does not have a full scale distribution system as a net oil producer. You still can't ship oil past Toronto in this country, it has been like this for decades and bloats economic costs for no reason. How Canada deals with energy/oil makes no sense. We are bound by treaty to always give surplus to America, Halifax is never guaranteed a barrel of Canadian oil but Kansas is. Petro-Canada may have been a bloated Crown Corp but look at its opposite present today. Instead of producing and getting revenue streams of all aspects of production Alberta and Canada now just relies on royalties which fluctuate and can't shield your citizens from downturns like we have now. Free market is all nice when oil is at $115 but in this deflationary period we see now there will be no pick up for some time and Canada can't do anything to mediate that bleeding.

The Suadi's and Russians all still develop and produce oil/gas via State means. Its propaganda to think that the market will produce better your most strategic and vital resource. Alberta with all of its royalty cheques just got a bank account full of money and nothing else. Now with oil in the dumps we see the sham that Alberta's "developed" economy really is. All that monopoly money does not automatically create industry and divergence away from primary resources but having a hand in those primary resources is still something tangible and real.

This might just turn into a Canadian rant thread. So much foolery in this nation some times with politics and policy.

[PABeaulieu]

I support Harper and his government, not because they are the best, but simply because they are the best of the worst. I would never be capable to support Trudeau or Mulcair.

[Chemistry]

If you're curious what other RVF members think, I was personally surprised to see that I was in great company in the "I don't vote" camp (Source thread)

My personal reason is that the same party wins over and over in my riding, and there is ZERO chance of an upset ... my vote will not matter. I'd rather spend the time on myself. If it was going to be close, I might reconsider...might.

So, please consider whether or not your vote, in your riding, has a chance of making a difference.

[komatiite]

Quote:

"Toronto elite" are you from Winnipeg or something

NO! Saskatchewan you damn Toronto Elitist!

I'm not going to say that Harper is some incredible leader who has done no wrong. You are right- the CMHC and the whole housing situation is a horror show. While Canada never went as far down the rabbit hole as the US did with those ridiculous NINJA mortgages (doesnt the CMHC refuse to give out high-risk mortgages?), and I have no idea why the CMHC hasn't been privatized? People in Canada are fucking retards when it comes to housing. Average salary in Van is like 70K and I'm seeing semi-detached bungalows for over a mil there. I guess we are just anxious people who need constant re-affirmation of our worth. But I'm no expert on this subject AT ALL. Been renting apartments and saving money for school instead of researching home buying the last three years... I hadn't even thought about the CMHC since Jim Flarhety died (remembered reading how he was the big advocate for privatization)... took me a while but I found this article from the bowels of the Internet that I remembered reading years ago: http://mises.ca/posts/articles/the-canad...rporation/ which is a pretty bleak outlook for when things go wrong.

I dunno, we'll see what happens. Won't make me a Trudeau supporter though.

One thing about your oil comments: yes, Saudi, Russia, and places like Norway have these state-run oil companies, but I personally don't think that would work in Canada. We have already seen how nationalizing the oil here fractures the nation along regional lines. Saudi Arabia is 100% Islamic, so when the government controls the industry, I think people can get behind that, because it is what is deemed best for their fellow man. On the other hand, in Canada, we are too diverse to ever do that. It's why socialism works in Scandinavia but won't work here- everyone there is the same background and will accept the bigger role of government in their lives for the benefit of society as a whole, because everyone is the same. Sven from Norway may study for years to become a drilling engineer in the North Sea, but can accept a lower pay grade as long as the money his work generates goes to benefit Magnus the museum curator in Oslo. Canada can't even get along on regional lines, so as the country becomes more and more multicultural, I don't ever see people out West ever happily giving control of their oil to the government. If you want to get your hands on the oil money, come out here and help us get it out of the ground, but don't expect the government to watch us do it then skim the profit off the top to redistribute to Alexandre in Montreal so he can have lower tuition to study Sociology. We don't spend years in Uni studying sciences and engineering or grind it out in the trades/drilling rigs in -40 degree weather for that.

Maybe we have just been influenced too much by the entrepreneurial spirit of our American neighbours.

It will be fascinating to see what happens if oil prices stay low for a while and the Canadians cannot get their oil to market. Personally, if Harper fails to find a solution for this glut of supply, even I may have to take off my rose-coloured glasses...

[Darius]

(03-01-2015 03:27 PM)komatiite Wrote:  

Maybe we have just been influenced too much by the entrepreneurial spirit of our American neighbours.

This is the big problem right here.

Are politics are influenced by actors from outside the country. We are too close and too strategic to have our politics not be constantly interfered with by US.

It's the reason why are pipelines blocked and it's the same reason why no political party will be independent.

We aren't that different than the states when it comes to politics. The Liberals and Conservatives may differ on minor issues but they will both do exactly what they are told.

[Sidney Crosby]

Trudeau is a douche bag. Harper is way too conservative and I'd never vote for the faggot NDP party, so I'm just not gonna vote in the next election.

[Tytalus]

(03-01-2015 01:06 AM)kosko Wrote:  

He is a cunt. I ussually leave that word for wacked out females but the title fits his style very much.

He is proof the Canadian system does not work as I believe he has only carried the proportion of the popular vote once but has maintained power for over 10 years.

He has stayed on so long to see his coveted majority Government and he has wasted no time in dismantling the nation behind the scenes with new terror laws, folly fighter planes, super prisons, the destruction of the best Stats/Data body on earth, and further destruction of the economy by letting the largest Real Estate bubble balloon to a size greater in proportion to the USA housing crisis in 2007-2008. Canada will be critical hurt once that bubble pops and he will likley be gone once it happens but it was all his doing. It was the only way to get marginal growth in a slowed economy and he sold out the future for it.

His done this all while still being a weirdo who has the vibe of that nerdy kid in school nobody could get along with because with being so smart and nerd he was still a pompous piece of shit.

That's about the reasoning for the -5.5 points, especially since I'm a statistician by profession.

[DjembaDjemba]

I'm one of the few people I know around my circles who happily seems to follow local politics more than US politics. I can see how Canadian politics can seem 'boring' and 'tame' compared to the House of Cards esque dog-eat-dog world of US political theatre.

Canadian politics for the most part are very divisive and even more partisan than US politics. The ways in which democrats and republicans behave today, with government shutdowns, fullibusters, and hardcore partisan cheerleading from both sides by voters has been order of the day in Canada since the Trudeau era. Canadians are far better at slicing each other at the throats than Americans could ever imagine.

The second time Stephen Harper was elected with a minority government (winning the most seats in parliament, but not winning the majority of seats, thus being unable to pass bills without opposition party support) the opposition parties ganged up on him and tried to form a coalition. Stephen Harper shut down parliament for 3 months. All of these actions were taken on technicalities. Normally losers don't form coalitions in parliamentary systems right after an election in which they received no mandate from the voters, however it's legal. Prime ministers don't normally use the power of the Governor General to shut down parliament to fuck the opposition over, but it's legal.

It's Canadian politics, cut-throat.

To answer the OP's question, you have to look at the backdrop of the current situation. Has Stephen Harper and his conservative party been good to Canada and does it matter? The answer is subjective.

Personally, I hate the social conservative ideology. However fiscally, Harper has done a very decent job at the helm, and has for the most part kept the ultra-right wing (the Christian bible thumper types) in lockstep and in the closet. The Canadian conservative party are small 'c' conservatives. Just as the liberals are small 'l' liberals. On the economic issues both parties seem to converge. There are fundamental differences however.

Canadians east of Manitoba, and in BC, are generally more for a tighter union, more wealth 'spreading' and a bigger demand for the welfare state. Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, are essentially very lefty when it comes to economic issues. This has always been the case, as far back as the pre Trudeau days. Alberta and Saskatchewan, are abselutley the opposite. Both provinces have generally shirked the idea of a large federal welfare state and more 'wealth distribution'. Saskatchewan for example has had balanced budgets for 10 years. They're the true conservatives. Small government, balanced budgets, low taxes. Cuts to essential services to balance the budget as needed. Alberta, while very lucky to sit on a fat stack of oil, still could be much worse. It still has low taxes, high wages, and half decent services. Most importantly, the political will to balance budgets is strong with the electorate.

This is in contrast to Ontario, which has ran deficits since 2007 and is now broke. Quebec hasn't had a balanced budget since some time in the 80s. The Maritimes provinces have been perpetually broke and haven't bothered to do anything about it.
In Canada we have equalization payments, the poor (have not) provinces get federal transfers from the rich provinces (imagine Alabama receiving enough Federal funds so its standards of living match NY, with NY money!).

This can give you an idea of why people in Canada are so divided on things such as resource royalties, revenue sharing, taxation, and Quebec sovereignty.

What does that mean for Stephen Harper and the next election? The same thing it's meant for every prime minister for the past 30-40 years. The issues are the same. Alberta and Saskatchewan (Prairies) want to keep more money within the provinces. Quebeckers, Ontario, and BC prefer more wealth spreading (in general, obviously the electorate is made of individuals who have different goals and aspirations).

Alberta and Saskatchewan have grown in influence due to growing populations. Their model of slash and burn economics to balance budgets at any cost is spreading across the country and is becoming more popular with the immigrant community too (conservatives in Canada are the only conservative party in the West, and perhaps the world to have more support from non-white citizens than liberals).

Should Harper be given another 5 years? It all depends because there's a chance that he may step down after a year even if he wins, handing the mantle to someone more unstable. Jim Prentice would have made a better bet, but like Paul Martin, he's too pragmatic to win. Voters like their leaders a little crazy it seems.

I'm personally hoping for another minority government, with the conservative party having its wings clipped so they can stop ramming Christian agenda down our throats. However an outright Liberal win would be bad for the budget. They've hinted that they'd be willing to plunge the country into a deficit (just like the liberals did in Ontario) to keep their backers (public sector) happy. That would be a disaster for the country.

At the end OP, vote however you want.

I'll most likely be leaning blue (conservative) this fall, but it's not set in stone as of yet.

[lovejoy]

(03-01-2015 12:41 AM)Laner Wrote:  

Quote:

That said, if your riding has a truly amazing one in a generation candidate who is a Liberal or NDP, who despite the party, you think is really the kind of man/woman who should represent your riding, vote for 'em.

This is how I vote first.

That said Canada needed a guy like Harper, and even though Canadians have been bitching about him non stop, he stays in power. I think that many Canadians agree that a man who gets things done and does not seem worried about what others think of him. Just look at him when he tries to come across as human. Its hilarious.

He really is a strange man, but who cares. Charismatic leaders are often ineffective anyway.

Canada cant afford Liberal or especially NDP governments right now. Conservative might not always be my first choice, but lately its been nice not having to get pissed off with Canada leadership.

Harper has been a disaster, his party inherited a country that had back to back budget surpluses for almost ten years and one of the lowest debt ratios in the G20 nation. Within in a year his party plunged the country back into a deficit position increased the debt and has never run a balanced budget since.

[komatiite]

(03-04-2015 08:00 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

with the conservative party having its wings clipped so they can stop ramming Christian agenda down our throats.

Can you elaborate? I have never come under the impression that Harper has been doing that. Canada is basically a secular paradise with its thriving gay marriage movement and government-subsidized abortions...

[scotian]

I will add more to this conversation later but I can't believe that in this entire post (which I mostly agree with), you didn't once mention the word "Quebec". Djembadjemba mentioned it but not in the context of seperatism, in my opinion, you cannot speak of Canadian politics over the past 30 years or so without mentioning the Qc factor. Think of the 2006 election, the fucking Sponsorship Scandal and how big of a deal Harper's "nation within a nation" speech was. Trudeau Jr is a flaming homo and won't get my vote, they should have picked that astronaut dude.

[DjembaDjemba]

(03-04-2015 11:58 PM)komatiite Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 08:00 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

with the conservative party having its wings clipped so they can stop ramming Christian agenda down our throats.

Can you elaborate? I have never come under the impression that Harper has been doing that. Canada is basically a secular paradise with its thriving gay marriage movement and government-subsidized abortions...

The crime bill, attack on marijuana, minimum sentencing laws, prostitution laws, etc, those just come to mind off the top of my head. Most of the legislations come from the deepest bowels of the Christian, conservative wing of the reform party.

Small government should be extended to all facets of society, not just in tax domains and business regulations. If conservative party ignores the identity politics it would make them even more formidable. They would essentially have my guaranteed vote, and many other middle of the road voters. A conservative party willing to dabble in bedroom issues, most likely will get my vote but far more reluctantly, only due to the incompetence of JT, and idioticy of the NDP. If the Liberals had a strong leader with a proven track record of fiscal conservatism (like Christy Clark for example), I'd vote for them in a heartbeat.

[DannyAlberta]

(03-01-2015 12:21 AM)younggun Wrote:  

I believe in lower taxes, fewer services. I hate the idea of supplying money to services I will never need. On that principle, which candidate would align most with my thinking?

honestly younggun? none of the candidates stands for lower taxes or limited government.

although most of the mainstream canadian media brand harper as a right-wing nutjob, he just isn't. although he hasn't really raised taxes (except on income trust) he hasn't done much to cut them either (a modest corporate tax cut aside, which should have been pursued much more under the majority government). he has also backed way off on income splitting between spouses, such that the most it could ever save you now will be on about $2000 worth of income.

at the same time, the existing canadian government revenue collectors (i.e. the CRA) have vastly expanded their motivation to extract every possible dollar out of you and your business under the existing tax laws (trust me i know this as i'm self employed).

as for more limited government, the only time in my 37 years on this earth when the canadian government did not grow was actually not under harper. perversely, it was only 2 years during the mid-90s. under harper, we spent our way out of the recession, bringin on massive deficits and larger more bloated government.

harper is a centrist and only looks like a right-winger because canadian society is generally extremely far to the left as a default and the media paints him as the big right-wing boogeyman.

all that said, trudueau and mulcair are full on progressive sjws who would enact higher taxes, bigger deficits and huger more expansive government (universal daycare anyone? - all the better to start indoctrinating kids into statism at the earliest possible age - and it will be "free" too).

one thing harper does get credit for in my view is completely revamping the immigration system in canada. under his pedecessors, it was almost entirely humanitarian and compassionate based, under harper, it has become less this and more about naturalizing those people with necessary labour skills to the benefit of our economy. that's one thing that could be legitimately called right-wing about him.

hope some of that helps.

[lowhead360]

delete

[Kaizen]

Hate the man.

Shameless behaviour trying to create an issue (read: niqab) and divide people. I've seen 3 niqabs in my life in Canada and dude talking like it's the biggest problem facing the country.

Disagree with:
ignoring the environment
us style war on drugs (proven to be a failure)
us style minimum sentences for crimes (current responsible for the 200 billion us system)
ignores supreme court decisions and tries to subvert them (examples: prostitution and euthanasia)

[scotian]

(03-11-2015 09:51 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  

Hate the man.

Shameless behaviour trying to create an issue (read: niqab) and divide people. I've seen 3 niqabs in my life in Canada and dude talking like it's the biggest problem facing the country.

Disagree with:
ignoring the environment
us style war on drugs (proven to be a failure)
us style minimum sentences for crimes (current responsible for the 200 billion us system)
ignores supreme court decisions and tries to subvert them (examples: prostitution and euthanasia)

As Djembadjemba noted above, many of the policies that Harper introduced were done so to appease his base of social conservatives who are mostly based in the west, I think that will come back to haunt him as those values aren't widely shared in the rest of the country, which still has more political power than redneck Ab and Sask (ex: Toronto and Montreal). I agree with you and DD that his policies on crime, prisons, marijuana and prostitution are pretty dumb and most Canadians don't want to see our resources spent on these things, stats show that crime has been falling year after year, so why are we building new, bigger prisons? If there's one thing that I pride myself on as a Canadian is that we don't throw someone in jail for several years for possessing or growing pot, unlike in the US where so many young people have had their lives ruined over non-violent crimes like a bag of weed or coke.

I think that its time for Harper to step down as leader, the Cons need new blood but overall, he did a decent job during his tenure as PM and saw the country through some rough times but a lot of his success was riding the coattails of former Liberal PM Chretien and especially finance minister Paul Martin. While Harper was leader of the opposition, he was calling for Canada to participate in the Iraq war (which most Canadians would agree was best to stay out of) and to also loosen existing banking rules, which could have seen Canada succumb to a banking crisis as the US did back in 08/09', but fortunately the Liberals stood their ground.

As far as immigration goes, Jason Kennedy has done a good job at getting better immigrants, instead of family reunification, where elderly immigrants who never contributed to our economy arrived to mooch off of our health care system, now we are getting more skilled workers, although I'd like to see the TFW program phased out, which I think they are starting to do now. The whole burka/niqab issue is a populist one which will see Harper score some much needed points in Quebec, honestly I think that the majority of Canadians, whether they're "old stock" or immigrants from non-Muslim places, don't give a shit about the Muslim population (which is about 3%) and you can expect to see more of it. Myself, I don't like seeing women wearing bags on their heads to be honest and if they don't want to take it off in court or during citizenship ceremonies then they can fuck right off back to where they came from.

[Kaizen]

(03-11-2015 11:39 PM)scotian Wrote:  

. Myself, I don't like seeing women wearing bags on their heads to be honest and if they don't want to take it off in court or during citizenship ceremonies then they can fuck right off back to where they came from.

Not a fan myself. But how many women in niqab's are working around the streets? Or in Canada period? And how many take this citizenship oath?
This is a such a non issue. But Harper is successful in making it one....people arguing with each other about an event that may well occur once a decade. Sheesh...

If it's legal to walk in the streets in one...then let them swear an oath in one. Could care less

[scotian]

(03-12-2015 07:20 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  

(03-11-2015 11:39 PM)scotian Wrote:  

. Myself, I don't like seeing women wearing bags on their heads to be honest and if they don't want to take it off in court or during citizenship ceremonies then they can fuck right off back to where they came from.

Not a fan myself. But how many women in niqab's are working around the streets? Or in Canada period? And how many take this citizenship oath?
This is a such a non issue. But Harper is successful in making it one....people arguing with each other about an event that may well occur once a decade. Sheesh...

If it's legal to walk in the streets in one...then let them swear an oath in one. Could care less

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It looks like Justin Trudeau's MO is going to be to paint Harper as an anti-Islam lunatic who rules the country through politics of fear, as you can see in this video below:

This issue will ruin Trudeau and boost Harper's popularity, if Trudeau wants to have any chance of success (I think his best chance is a Con minority and official opposition), then he should probably drop it. He speaks of the example that "Canada can and must" give to the world, give me a fucking break, Canada hasn't influenced the world much and if it ever did, those days are long gone and no other country really gives a shit about Canada. How about we focus on whats going on in Canada and do what is best for us, not the rest of the world. I say fuck our image as a "nice, soft country", I would actually welcome a hard line stance from the Harper government regarding immigrants fitting into our culture and not the other way around and I'm confident that a lot of other Canadians would as well. I'm not just talking about white red necks such as myself either, I think that a lot of our hard working successful immigrant communities who don't try to change our laws, rules and culture would agree as well.

As I mentioned, Canada isn't a Muslim heavy country and your typical Canadian won't support bending over to accommodate such backwards cultural practices as women wearing burkas and niqabs. Maclean's published an eye opening article about Canadian's opinions on multiculturalism and the facts don't support what our main stream media would like us to believe, from the article: "Canadians like to think of their country as a model for the world of how all sorts of people can get along together. But when it comes to the major faiths other than Christianity, a new poll conducted for Maclean’s finds that many Canadians harbour deeply troubling biases. Multiculturalism? Although by now it might seem an ingrained national creed, fewer than one in three Canadians can find it in their hearts to view Islam or Sikhism in a favourable light. Diversity? Canadians may embrace it in theory, but only a minority say they would find it acceptable if one of their kids came home engaged to a Muslim, Hindu or Sikh. Understanding? There’s not enough to prevent media images of war and terrorism from convincing almost half of Canadians that mainstream Islam encourages violence." Canadians aren't so open minded to immigration from countries who's people come here and shit all over our values, whether its Sikhs wanting to wear their kirpans to school or Muslims wanting to wear the niqab in court, our patience is wearing thing. I'm just sick of hearing about these stupid court cases that are a massive waste of our tax payers money as well as the ridiculous human rights tribunals which make a mockery of our laws and judicial system, they divide us rather than unite us. Basically I"m of the opinion that these people should fit in or fuck off, I never hear of Filipinos or Ukrainians or Chinese people making a fuss; they fit in, work hard and for the most part, become great citizens. So why take in groups of people whose history, culture and values don't jive with ours and who are going to be trouble makers and drag us all down with them?

If Justin makes himself the defender of Islam in Canada, I just can't see it going too well, he will fuck up in Quebec (who aren't big fans of Muslims, Jews or any other religion) and vote rich Toronto (who elected Rob Ford as mayor, don't forget), he doesn't have a chance in the Prairies anyway, I"m not too sure about BC. He'll probably only really win over the Atlantic provinces where the people only care about milking the system for more EI benefits and don't have to worry about being flooded with third world immigrants because why would anyone want to move to the economic arsehole of Canada anyway?

Harper is a dork but he is a good political strategist, I wouldn't be too surprised if he eases his stance on marijuana (ticket for simple possession) to steal some of Trudeau's thunder with the younger Canadians. Anyway, I like this thread because I haven't been paying too much attention to Canadian politics as I've been out of the country but it should be an interesting election, I predict a Conservative minority.

[lavidaloca]

I just looked up Justin Trudeau because based on the video scotian posted I thought he was late 20s-early 30s...apparently hes 43.

I like Harper. Conservatives all the way.