[lskdfjldsf]

I'm having a damn near impossible time putting on noticeable leg bulk. I tore my medial miniscus in high school football, then my ACL and MCL on the same knee while in the Army.

Endurance isn't a problem, but my knee swells up pretty badly with heavier weights.

Any recommended exercises to bulk up the knee area & quads? I'm stuck with light dumbell squats and lunges with free weights, and low-weight machines for leg presses and extensions.

[H1N1]

(02-16-2015 06:10 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

I'm having a damn near impossible time putting on noticeable leg bulk. I tore my medial miniscus in high school football, then my ACL and MCL on the same knee while in the Army.

Endurance isn't a problem, but my knee swells up pretty badly with heavier weights.

Any recommended exercises to bulk up the knee area & quads? I'm stuck with light dumbell squats and lunges with free weights, and low-weight machines for leg presses and extensions.

I'm no expert on knee injuries, never having had one so far, so my suggestions might be wrong for you.


Is it full ROM that kills you with heavier weights? Heavy squat partials, ie doing the last 1/4 of a squat, not much more than going from a slight knee bend to lockout, have definitely put on some leg mass for me, and have strengthened my whole knee joint.

Can you run? Obviously your genetics will determine how much running can pack on mass to your legs, but back when I was boxing seriously, and sprinting hills 3x a week, my legs grew to 25.5" without ever lifting a weight. So if you can handle it, hill sprints would probably be my top suggestion.

[KC4]

Yeah recently got the all clear from the doc. Acl injuries suck. What helped at first was front squatin Lightly. I later started superseting in with lunges with weights from a bench. Just go easy and don't overdue it. Strength wise my legs are the same but dont really have the same size.

[jSinSaTx]

I have found that time under tension counts for a lot. THT training covers this if you google it. Basically slow your descent. I currently am doing a 1s/3s rep. I lift a smaller weight but my growth matches what I achieved with a 1s/1s. I also stopped aggravating a shoulder injury.

[Hades]

Anything high impact (running, hill sprints, etc) I wouldn't bother. That's just playing with fire.

Have you tried step-ups (weighted or unweighted)? Bulgarian split squats? If heavy weights give your knees grief then there are some bodyweight variations that ought to work.

[RichieP]

+1 for stepus, split squats. Natural movements and kind to the knees. I'd also suggest pistol squats, sitting back onto a box at the bottom (to limit the ROM). These will be enough to have decent non-skinny quads, but you wont get the full-on bulk of barbell squats. Then again, I think health and strength and settling for moderate muscle mass should be your priority after such injuries. Just IMO.

You could focus on deadlifts and kettlebells for overall leg and glute size strength/power/explosiveness. Both are pretty kind to the knees. You can get big legs from hamstring and glute development. Take it easy on your knee man.

Also, look into trigger point therapy. Knee injuries often leave tight knots in muscles that keep the quads tight and pulling the knee out of it's natural alignment.

There are 3-4 common trigger points in the quad that you can easily find with a google search. Massage them with a lacrosse ball or palm of your hand... it can really loosen things up and reduce pain and tightness in the knee.

[Thatdude]

I tore my acl and had reconstruction surgery 8-9 months ago. The quad on my reconstructed acl leg is still a bit smaller than my normal leg, but it's getting better with squatting. I've found that just doing normal squats is fine but you have to ease into it. Also be conscious of going below parallel. I only go down 90 degrees tops. After that it puts a lot of stress on the acl and I usually have pain. Honestly you shouldn't really be having too much of an issue doing normal exercises aside from open chain exercises. I guess I should ask if you had surgery to repair the acl?

Edit: I had torn my acl about 2 months before having it operated on.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

I recommend swimming. Use a kick board and different types of kicks to isolate legs. My legs were massive when I was a competitive swimmer.
There are also various forms of physical rehab that involve standing in the shallow ends of pools and having weights attached to your ankles or whatever. I am not specifically familiar with them but a pool I swam at when I was competing would have certain days/times when half the pool was blocked off and reserved for rehab sessions. I remember seeing people doing this. It might be something worth looking into.

[vinman]

I'm 46 years old with arthritis in my right knee. I would squat heavy and my knee would blow up like a ballon. What I started doing to prevent the swelling from going "heavy" was to strip down the squats and deadlifts.

1. Stretch. And when I say stretch I mean squat down into a good squat position with an empty bar and hold it there. Try to do this for a few seconds at a time to warm up the knees, and stretch out the scar tissue. The direction that your toes are pointed in is important as well.

2. Squats. Proper form throughout, with a good stretch at the bottom. Your hip crease should be below slightly parallel. Go light, and deep to build up strength in every phase of the exercise. Increase the reps to get a good pump. Alternate with different squat movement as well.
Goblet squats
Dumbbell squats
Front squats
Overhead Single Armed Dumbbell or Kettle Bell Squats as well.

I used mobility exercises from Kelly Starrett to get a better range of motion.

[Ryre]

Try the exercise bike, with the seat set lower than is comfortable so you can't straighten your leg--a range of motion that forces your quads to work. Keep a pace of about 60 revolutions/minute and do 30 seconds of high resistance, so you can barely keep pace, alternating with 30 seconds of light resistance. Good conditioning workout too.

Landmine reverse lunges are more stable, knee-friendly lunge variant. You don't need the landmine gadget, you can just wedge the end of the bar into a corner--use a towel to keep it from damaging the wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-JvMasujrw

[TheFinalEpic]

I'm In a similar situation, broke my back a year and 3 months ago, and atrophied legs was a side effect. I started training with a slower eccentric and concentric, and noticed the effect was staggering. I'm still nowhere where I was before my accident, but it brought my legs back up to 23" from 17ish at the worst.

Edit: by slower I mean about 5 seconds up and 5 seconds down.

[Hannibal]

I would do super high rep slightly weighted squats, try to get to 50-100 reps in a set and then go up from there.

Derek Poundstone likes to do 100 rep sets of really light dumbbell curls to protect his elbow joint from all that pressing he does. It might have a similar effect to your knee.

[Dirtyblueshirt]

Maybe experiment with knee wraps or sleeves during your workout. They do take some pressure off the joints. I had an issue with my elbow, which would chronically ache after lifting. Since I started wearing an elbow sleeve (which was heavy-duty, not the spandex ones you see on tv), its not nearly as sore after I workout.

[Zep]

(02-16-2015 10:56 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

I recommend swimming. Use a kick board and different types of kicks to isolate legs. My legs were massive when I was a competitive swimmer.
There are also various forms of physical rehab that involve standing in the shallow ends of pools and having weights attached to your ankles or whatever. I am not specifically familiar with them but a pool I swam at when I was competing would have certain days/times when half the pool was blocked off and reserved for rehab sessions. I remember seeing people doing this. It might be something worth looking into.

I could see this working for sure.

The leg is straight so you`re not bending it, which I`ve found aggravates mine. I think it`s the movement that aggravates bad knees. During my rehab I would get into a squat position and stay there, and drop the weight if I couldn`t move back up. This way I could get a solid quad burn without any movement, and that spared knee joints until I built up enough muscle to begin minor movement with weight.

[void]

What surgery did you have? patella/semitendinosus
How is your meniscus? Do you have arthrosis?
How big is your movement range in the knee joint without any load/weight?
Do you have pain doing certain exercises/movements?

What you mentioned,
-Leg press / you can do it one-footed too, so you could double the weight the machine offers
-partial squats, 90°//parallel. descend very slow, ascend controlled; perfect technique execution required (especially foot stance)
Riptoe probably would not be pleased with this, but the strain with impaired mobility beneath 90° is quite high if you can't drop down into the squat position smoothly.
If you had surgery, your ACL may be shorter now, than naturally.
-leg extension / flexion machine
-deadlifting. I wouldn't do it, if I still had knee problems.
-swimming, was rather bad for my knee.

Controlling your movement range is more important for the health of your knee, than the weight you put on (my experience, I had your injuries minus the MCL)

http://fitness.stackexchange.com/questio...h-torn-acl read the top answer, here are some sources the poster linked to
http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/squat2.htm
http://drmillett.com/wp-content/uploads/...otocol.pdf
Effects of technique variations on knee biomechanics during the squat and leg press.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11528346

[lskdfjldsf]

Fantastic advice, big thanks everyone!

I've incorporated some new things into my workout now and haven't had any problems.

Running with weights (outdoors, with a backpack) seems to prep up my knees for the more intensive strength exercises.

[Giovonny]

Walk up mountains.

Walk up sand dunes.

Walk up stairs.

[OBERYN_]

(02-16-2015 06:10 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

I'm having a damn near impossible time putting on noticeable leg bulk. I tore my medial miniscus in high school football, then my ACL and MCL on the same knee while in the Army.

Endurance isn't a problem, but my knee swells up pretty badly with heavier weights.

Any recommended exercises to bulk up the knee area & quads? I'm stuck with light dumbell squats and lunges with free weights, and low-weight machines for leg presses and extensions.

I certainly don't want this to read like an attack or putdown to any of the members here, the advice given is well-reasoned and intentioned. But man, since you have serious knee issues, I think you should consult a doctor or certified strength and conditioning coach (not the certificate-mill personal trainers at planet fitness)*. Even established contributors to the weight lifting community advise a face-to-face consult with a professional when they get these types of questions on their websites. In part due protecting their asses against lawsuits, but also because no one can really know without examining you.

*You should NOT go to planet fitness if you have other options.