[TheWastelander]

(01-25-2015 10:43 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

Your screenshots are less clear than going frame by frame in the actual video. But yes the dude turns and starts running away, and then the first shot comes at that instant. For the other shots he is completely turned and running away.

My problem with these videos starts much before a shot is fired at all. It starts when cops starts harassing someone on the street and arrest or detain them. Where was the warrant? Apparently this guy has made death threats to his ex gf? Get a warrant. Go to his house, show it to him, and arrest him.

He threatened his ex and showed up to the wedding at THAT very church where she was and where the video takes place with a gun, no less.

Are you serious?

http://kfor.com/2015/01/23/graphic-polic...ee-church/

This whole incident, at least to me, highlights the dangers of oneitis, betahood, and men not keeping their emotions in check above all else.

[Slim Shady]

Now to answer the other question: Ofcourse what this guy who ran did was extremely stupid. Stopping to pick up the gun was also stupid and wrong.

[MMX2010]

It also matters that the suspect, 21-year-old Terrance Walker, was being patted down because his ex-girlfriend claimed he was threatening her.

From a NY Daily News article: "On the day of the Muskogee shooting, Walker repeatedly threatened his ex-girlfriend, Sgt. Mike Mahan told the Tulsa World. Walker — who lives in Texas but was in Oklahoma to pick up a car he left at his ex’s house — told her he “had a bullet with her name on it” before she went to church."

To me, suspicion of a violent action + possession of weapon + running away from police = threat to the public.

[Slim Shady]

^ But does not mean he deserves to be killed, especially without a trial.

[MMX2010]

(01-25-2015 11:00 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

^ But does not mean he deserves to be killed, especially without a trial.

You can't simultaneously run away from the officer who's trying to provide you with a trial AND complain that you deserved a trial.

[Enigma]

Ah, the classic intimidation tactic, "why are you shaking?"

The implications are obvious here. There's no reason that anyone NOT guilty of something would be afraid of police, jail, or fines, right?

The truth is, many people get scared when put in these situations. Police know this. I remember a family member telling me about a young guy they had questioned that day -- about some small misdemeanor -- pissing himself on a sidewalk in the middle of the city.

They also understand the mind fuck of pointing out the shaking. It's effective on so many levels.

There was one time a cop asked a friend this as we stood on the side of the road in the middle of winter and they searched our car for whatever drug it is that all young people are on. Even though he was obviously shivering due to the cold and lack of outerwear, you could tell that question still sent him for a loop.

[TheWastelander]

(01-25-2015 11:00 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

^ But does not mean he deserves to be killed, especially without a trial.

Join your local police force and take your chances chasing down and subduing a man armed with a handgun.

[Slim Shady]

Are you going to debate risk/difficulty vs the fundamental right on which a free nation is founded?

[GoldHawkStar]

You don't run from a cop.

You don't resist arrest.

You don't stand in front of a cop and argue with him after he just shot someone, even if he is your friend.

Don't be an idiot and put yourself in danger.

[Peregrine]

(01-25-2015 11:02 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

Ah, the classic intimidation tactic, "why are you shaking?"

The implications are obvious here. There's no reason that anyone NOT guilty of something would be afraid of police, jail, or fines, right?

The truth is, many people get scared when put in these situations. Police know this. I remember a family member telling me about a young guy they had questioned that day -- about some small misdemeanor -- pissing himself on a sidewalk in the middle of the city.

They also understand the mind fuck of pointing out the shaking. It's effective on so many levels.

There was one time a cop asked a friend this as we stood on the side of the road in the middle of winter and they searched our car for whatever drug it is that all young people are on. Even though he was obviously shivering due to the cold and lack of outerwear, you could tell that question still sent him for a loop.

There's nervous shaking and then there's "I'm getting ready to run/fight" shaking. I watched the video and didn't get the sense that the officer was fucking with the guy. He was being cordial while assessing the guy for threats. Asking him why he's being fidgety is part of that process.

Quote:

Are you going to debate risk/difficulty vs the fundamental right on which a free nation is founded?

Rights entail responsibility. You have the responsibility to obey lawful orders from representatives of the state.

[Enigma]

(01-25-2015 11:03 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Join your local police force and take your chances chasing down and subduing a man armed with a handgun.

The law isn't supposed to work like that. You don't shoot someone you can't safely run down for the same reason most jurisdictions don't allow officers to pursue speeding motorcyclists.

[Quintus Curtius]

(01-25-2015 10:36 PM)Billy Chubbs Wrote:  

And when he ran, instead of jumping the ditch and disappearing into those concealing cat tails and trees only a few short feet away, he runs straight down the open road. Darwinism baby. No tears for idiots from me, crooks or otherwise. If you gonna fight the law, go full bore or go home.

Still you QC.

Hehe...Chuubbbulussss....

That frame-by-frame breakdown helped out a lot. You may have helped convince me, but I still think this one is still tough. One thing I can say: incredible shooting by the officer. Moving target, long distance (for a pistol), while running.

[Tuthmosis]

As much as I think a not insignificant number of these police shootings are unjustified abuses from a militarized police full of power-tripping flunkies, this one isn't such a case.

They found a gun on the guy which is clearly visible in this higher-resolution version of the video.

   

[Enigma]

(01-25-2015 11:19 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

There's nervous shaking and then there's "I'm getting ready to run/fight" shaking. I watched the video and didn't get the sense that the officer was fucking with the guy. He was being cordial while assessing the guy for threats. Asking him why he's being fidgety is part of that process.

You don't point out when someone is shaking for the same reason you don't point out they have a stutter.

People don't just stop shaking or stuttering because you bring it to their attention. In fact, it makes them do it more.

Not to mention all the other psychological implications that come into play when you're dealing with an armed police officer, who according to many on this forum is justified in killing you if you don't do what he says.

[Slim Shady]

Peregrine,

Yes rights do entail responsibility. What the man did was obviously wrong. You don't attack/try to attack or run from a cop. You don't disobey them either. It is just good sense.

But the cop has more rights. In fact he has things beyond rights, he has privileges. And with that comes even more responsibility. The man paid the ultimate price with his life here.

[TheWastelander]

(01-25-2015 11:20 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

As much as I think a not insignificant number of these police shootings are unjustified abuses from a militarized police full of power-tripping flunkies, this one isn't such a case.

They found a gun on the guy which is clearly visible in this higher-resolution version of the video.

Excellent, longer video with a lot more clarity. Good find.

[GoldHawkStar]

Anyone know if he died? I looked at several articles, no mention of his condition.

I only assume...

[Enigma]

(01-25-2015 10:45 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

He threatened his ex and showed up to the wedding at THAT very church where she was and where the video takes place with a gun, no less.

Are you serious?

Maybe she was lying? Maybe he goes to that church also?

Interesting that her word is taken as truth on a forum where women are accused of and assumed as lying in almost every other news story posted here.

[TheWastelander]

I would love, for a day, to go back to a system where there's nothing but street justice, mob violence and clan score-settling instead of police. The people upset over the police officer's conduct in this video would really have something to be upset about when gangs of armed men with far less scruples exacted whatever kind of justice they felt like on anyone they pleased.

You anti-all cops all the time people need to relax. It makes sense to be anti-police militarization, which is most definitely what I am, but you guys take this to a whole other level.

Is there nothing a cop can do besides die that you would approve of?

I don't know if this enmity is racially-based, politically-motivated or just general ignorance of what the job is like but it's getting ridiculous.

[jimukr104]

Cop can shoot any armed person. If you wait to its pointed at you, you are already dead.

Also part of the job is to protect the public. Having a known criminal run off armed isn't safe for whomever he runs into.

Another scenario: Muslim terrorist looking guy is unarmed and starts to run towards a RED button that is obviously a detonator for a big destructive device. Should cop take the shot?
Well many dept's have rules against shooting unarmed perps who are running away, but I suspect an exception will be made there.

Also felons have different rights than perp's. If a felon is on the loose he can be shot running away in most areas since he has already been convicted and escaped. US Marshals are notorious for doing that!

Quote:

The law isn't supposed to work like that. You don't shoot someone you can't safely run down for the same reason most jurisdictions don't allow officers to pursue speeding motorcyclists.

You never seen those reality police chases?
Many jurisdictions they do run after motorists. Not in most large cities though but if the motorist has firearms in their hands they would be chased.

[worldwidetraveler]

(01-25-2015 11:28 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 10:45 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

He threatened his ex and showed up to the wedding at THAT very church where she was and where the video takes place with a gun, no less.

Are you serious?

Maybe she was lying? Maybe he goes to that church also?

Interesting that her word is taken as truth on a forum where women are accused of and assumed as lying in almost every other news story posted here.

Maybe the gun was a wedding gift. haha

[Slim Shady]

We don't want cops to die either. We don't want gang war.

A cop certainly has options. It's just that killing should be the very last one.

It's more than that too. It's the constant "policing". The ominous shadow that they pose. The cocksure attitude with which the pose it. I shouldn't have to be afraid of police presence, especially when I have done no wrong. Even if I have committed some infraction, I should not have to FEAR the police. Yet it exists.

Maybe I am paranoid...

[Slim Shady]

(01-25-2015 11:48 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Also felons have different rights than perp's. If a felon is on the loose he can be shot running away in most areas since he has already been convicted and escaped. US Marshals are notorious for doing that!

That is another injustice. The fact that someone who has been convicted has their future rights obliterated is unfair. Criminal history should be mainly a judicial matter, not an executive one.

To start, you don't know how and why they were convicted in the first case. Maybe they were even wrongly convicted, or maybe it was a small thing that got way out of hand.

[jimukr104]

Doesn't matter. Why do you think there are armed guys with guns on towers? to shoot birds?
Most guys working at a max security facility know the type they got there and US Marshals know the history of those they chase , so do other cops that have teams that go after felons.
Pretty sure they aren't shooting unarmed con men! But the guards on the towers do shoot if warning shots are ignored.

Quote:

To me, suspicion of a violent action + possession of weapon + running away from police = threat to the public.

The majority trumps individual freedom..sounds like we have a bunch of liberals here btw lol.


Cops need guns that can instantly switch to firing rubber bullets in a case like this. I can't believe this hasn't been created and issued.


Great idea but a real bullet is still going to be used when the capability force of the perp is a real bullet. Cop use the min. amount of force to get the job done but NOT less than the criminals. Plus rubber bullets don't necessarily stop anyone at a distance.

We been though that already.It was called the 80's and early 90's. Perps had better guns than the cops and the cops had to get better guns.

[Enigma]

(01-25-2015 11:40 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

I would love, for a day, to go back to a system where there's nothing but street justice, mob violence and clan score-settling instead of police. The people upset over the police officer's conduct in this video would really have something to be upset about when gangs of armed men with far less scruples exacted whatever kind of justice they felt like on anyone they pleased.

Yes, anarchy or police state, there's no middle ground. This is the same illogical argument used in all these debates when a "pro-cop" person runs out of things to say.

Quote:

You anti-all cops all the time people need to relax. It makes sense to be anti-police militarization, which is most definitely what I am, but you guys take this to a whole other level.

Is there nothing a cop can do besides die that you would approve of?

I don't know if this enmity is racially-based, politically-motivated or just general ignorance of what the job is like but it's getting ridiculous.

I've already addressed this point the last time you made it a few days ago.

I spent 2 of the last 5 years living with a cop, who has a law degree and is a close family member. This is also someone I spent extremely large amounts of time with growing up. But yeah, I'm anti-cop and hope they all die.

Sorry to ruin your emotional argument, but I think an active police officer talking to me about their job on a daily basis for years probably gives me a better understanding of what the job is like than what you have.

It also gives me insight into how someone who would generally be considered a "good cop" and has a better understanding of the law than most finds it acceptable to bend the rules as they see fit and will defend other officers' ability to do so as well.

Talk to me when you've had coffee at the kitchen table with a police officer as they ask you if them clearly and knowingly breaking the law the day before was "right" because the ends justified the means.