[JamesW95]

Hi there guys. Just wanted to take this opportunity to introduce myself.

My name is James, I'm 19 years old, 5'7, half Turkish half English (Caucasian).

Like many people here I have struggled immensely with women and have become incredibly jaded and cynical at life as not much has gone my way in terms of companionship and life in general. I grew up in a single parent family with a mother who is quite crazy. We were poor (naturally) and moved around a lot staying in crummy places all the time.

As I hit my adolescent years, I tried so hard to get a girlfriend and I was a huge white knight until I hit around 16 after I started learning about red pill. However, nothing has changed if anything things have gotten worse for me. I am currently studying at university doing an international business degree. I chose this as it allowed a travel year to anywhere of my choice, however, I've totally fucked up this year as I've hardly attended nor handed in any essays. I'm going to fail this year and I really do not want to go back to university but I'm struggling to figure out what I want to do.

My social life is non existent. I have 3 close friends, one being my brother, one being a very good looking guy who I go out with often to bars etc and another close friend who doesn't go out at all. I've tried making "go out friends" but it didn't work. I cut contact a month ago as we agreed to go to a club but then they ended up ignoring my calls when I got there.

I'm also quite ugly in terms of looks. I have a severely recessed chin and a huge over bite (front teeth protrude much further than my bottom teeth). This has caused my great anxiety when it comes to my looks and I feel like the ugliest guy anywhere I go. I also have a problem where I feel inferior to other guys when I'm out in a social setting.

What advice would you guys give me based on the above. I've done a lot of reading (rok, this forum etc) and I feel as if I've nailed the theory but I just can't seem to put anything into practice.

Sorry for the long post and sorry if this is the wrong section. Thank you guys.

FYI I'm still a virgin although I've kissed two girls.

[Novus]

There's literally the same topic being discussed right now in the newbie section. http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-44196.html

[Cobra]

I think it's fine to start personalized threads in the newbie section even if there are similar threads. Every newbies problem is unique as there are many variables. Mods can disagree of course.

Getting back to your request, firstly, you need to post a little more information. There was a thread recently about this and I can't find it. Your location would be a start. This way you'll find another RVF member that can wing you and/or push you to approach.

Do you hit the gym? And provide some detail on your wardrobe although this seems less important at a University.

Approaching and getting rejected many times is the only way to become good. On the other end you need to also be proud of who you are and let that radiate as you speak with people.

Can you at least start with approaching random people asking them questions about school, buildings, events? I think this is where you start given the abundance of people on campus. Try it with girls (without the intention of gaming) and report back your observations.

[Dalaran1991]

(02-09-2015 08:21 AM)Cobra Wrote:  

I think it's fine to start personalized threads in the newbie section even if there are similar threads. Every newbies problem is unique as there are many variables. Mods can disagree of course.

I beg to differ. I am not disregarding the OP's problem by any means, but we all tend to think our problems are unique. There's a saying in psychology "the more personal our problems feel, the more universal it actually is"

Unless you are missing a body part/have some serious medical condition/in legal trouble, all the basics apply to anyone starting redpill:

-Start approaching a lot. Even vets players still have to approach. I don't care if you are naturally sociable or you get nausea at talking to strangers. Start somewhere and eventually you need to approach a dozen girls each time you go out. Ask them about the time/their clothes etc. Anything, I don't care. As long as you approach you are getting better.

-Start hitting the gym. No excuse there. "But there are skinny lanky guys who can get women!" For every such guy there are 10 more jacked up guys who are even better with women. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

-Make new friends and build a social circle. Pick up a hobby. I dont care which one. Anything that puts you in contact with people. Make an effort to connect with people. At the beginning you HAVE to reach out. Do not expect people to come to you because you have nothing to offer yet. Bring value to others and they will come to you.

-Get better style. Dont tell me you have no $. At H&M you can have a fitted vneck for 10 bucks, slim Levis at 30$ and a decent blazer at around 40$-60$. Go to zappos and grabs some nice boots at 60$.

[ikemen]

(02-09-2015 08:37 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

-Start approaching a lot. Even vets players still have to approach. I don't care if you are naturally sociable or you get nausea at talking to strangers. Start somewhere and eventually you need to approach a dozen girls each time you go out. Ask them about the time/their clothes etc. Anything, I don't care. As long as you approach you are getting better.

-Start hitting the gym. No excuse there. "But there are skinny lanky guys who can get women!" For every such guy there are 10 more jacked up guys who are even better with women. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

-Make new friends and build a social circle. Pick up a hobby. I dont care which one. Anything that puts you in contact with people. Make an effort to connect with people. At the beginning you HAVE to reach out. Do not expect people to come to you because you have nothing to offer yet. Bring value to others and they will come to you.

-Get better style. Dont tell me you have no $. At H&M you can have a fitted vneck for 10 bucks, slim Levis at 30$ and a decent blazer at around 40$-60$. Go to zappos and grabs some nice boots at 60$.

These are all excellent gems of practical advice, but you need to take a good long hard look at your mindset and self-defeatist language:

(02-09-2015 12:09 AM)JamesW95 Wrote:  

I grew up in a single parent family with a mother who is quite crazy. We were poor (naturally) and moved around a lot staying in crummy places all the time.
...
However, nothing has changed if anything things have gotten worse for me.
...
I've totally fucked up this year as I've hardly attended nor handed in any essays.

Your mum might seem crazy, but you can't be blaming her. If anything you learn from her craziness on how women should and shouldn't be treated. Why (naturally) that you were poor? This is "woe is me" talk.

You say things have gotten worse after ceasing your white knighting and understanding red pill thinking. Realise that 90% of guys continue to make these mistakes. You MUST celebrate these sorts of minor victories. Otherwise you risk a situation where nothing is a victory (eg. kiss your third girl but negatively complain that actually she was ugly etc.).

And you totally fucked up the course because you didn't show up? This is basic adult accountability James. With willpower, you can knuckle down and achieve in what should be a straightforward area, then springboard off this confidence into your social life.

Inner game, optimism and drive to achieve. Girls will be able to sniff that you don't have these and your gym efforts will be pointless. Do it concurrently, but prioritise the reorganisation of your language and approach to your non-game life.

[Cobra]

(02-09-2015 08:37 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 08:21 AM)Cobra Wrote:  

I think it's fine to start personalized threads in the newbie section even if there are similar threads. Every newbies problem is unique as there are many variables. Mods can disagree of course.

I beg to differ. I am not disregarding the OP's problem by any means, but we all tend to think our problems are unique. There's a saying in psychology "the more personal our problems feel, the more universal it actually is"

Unless you are missing a body part/have some serious medical condition/in legal trouble, all the basics apply to anyone starting redpill:

As it relates to practical self improvement I'm not sure I buy into the whole universality thing. While psychologists believe that and it's true scientifically, us normal human beings are left to fight with our own personal inner demons. No psychological theory is going to bail us out,

OP can read various blogs, posts on the forum here and even watch pick up videos. Yes, because these things can teach him some universal truths and ingrain theories and concepts in him. Yet, there is no accountability. That's the key word. The reason it's so important is that when things become so universal, they STOP becoming personal. Accountability makes them personal.

People starting threads like this are taking that first step towards accountability. Lot of times because they don't have a figure in their life that ever held them accountable. The forum has helped a lot of newbs this way. I myself started a couple newbie threads and knowing that I was out there with the community helped me convert those personal issues into more universal ones. The forum is powerful like that.

When someone like Gio steps in and provides personalized tips, that shit is powerful.

Now, OP may not even come back. But if he does and practically starts applying things and tracking it here, I think there is a higher chance he will hold himself accountable and be encouraged to go further.

That being said OP: what does a general one of your weeks look like and have you reached out to any RVF members in your area?

[JamesW95]

Thank you for the responses guys, it really means a lot. I'm on mobile and it's not letting me quote so I'll be editing as I write a long.

The first question was my location. I'm located in the east end of London UK. It's pretty damn stark here. I signed up to the gym yesterday and had my first workout, I'm following jasonsb 5x5 routine which is on bodybuilding.com. I'm not too fussed about my diet yet just going to try to get into it first. I feel like I dress okay for how much money I have. Most of my shit is from Zara which is decent.

To the approaching part. I've read about approaching so many times and I agree whole heartedly but it's like when I step outside my mind goes blank and I completely forget about approaching and red pill philosophy. I tend to just go about my day place to place with my headphones in and ignoring everyone. The most I've approached is about a month ago I went out 2 weekends in a row with my buddies. I had some conversations but they never amount to anything. I've been rejected so many times I feel as if I'm scared to escalate as my ego is easily shattered.

My university is located in central London and I commute. I feel as if I did the wrong thing by not moving out to a dorm. I'm currently looking for a job and I'm looking to move out once I get one. I'm done with uni.

The advice in this thread is overwhelming and I thank you guys so much. Also sorry if this post sounds a bit like gibberish. I've just popped a zoplicone.

My next question is where do I start? I want to use this thread to track some progress

[Travesty]

Save up for braces if your teeth are bad or Invisilign.

This is real talk chicks do care alot about a guy's smile. It is crucial like have clean well fit good looking clothes, and your hair is washed etc... it is a basic that needs to get sorted, same with bad acne (or any other skin problem) need to try everything in the book to fix those asap.

You have so much time ahead of you and you were so insanely lucky to find this forum...

1 step at a time it will not all come at once.

I was pretty high when I wrote this... it doesn't mean I don't care tho

[JamesW95]

You're right I was damn lucky to find this forum

I've currently been wearing braces for 13 months. In 5 months I'm having surgery to correct my jawline and my chin is going to be moved forward as well. This will get rid of all my insecurities when it comes to my looks. I will go from a 3 to a 6 which is perfectly fine with me. Not everyone can be a model. I believe I have my looks down to an extent, it's more my face which is my biggest insecurity but yeah that's going to take long.

I don't have acne or anything like that to sort out. I don't wash my hair with shampoo because it dries the shit out of it. I'm also growing it out quite a bit and people have started giving me compliments which is cool because it's never happened before.

And it's okay, I'm quite high my self

[lowhead360]

delete

[Sketness]

@JamesW95... I had the same surgery that you're going to have though I had it on both my upper and lower jaws and let me tell you things are going to get a lot better.

You said that you are already wearing braces? + you are getting a jaw re-alignment surgery. My man you are in a prime spot to start self improving.

If I were you id start hitting the gym and getting some mass or losing weight ( don't know if you are a smaller guy or a bigger dude)

In like a year after your surgery you are going to be a whole new person. Jaw surgery changes EVERYTHING trust me.

So yo keep your head up son,hit the gym, start talking to Everyone (old people, young people, ugly girls, cute girls)

You live in london bro! your in daygame heaven take advantage my boy!

[JamesW95]

Did your looks change dramatically? I look very ugly to myself but I think I'll be decent looking with a nice chin and jaw. At the moment it just plays on my mind constantly that people or girls just laugh in their head when I talk to them. Hopefully ill have it done in a couple of months time.

I'm a small guy and rather weak. I weigh 125 lbs at 5'7. Gonna consistently hit the gym. I used to go about a year ago and I was weighing 145 lbs and had a decent amount of strength but had to quit because of finances. Hopefully I'll get back up there.

[Sketness]

(02-12-2015 11:40 AM)JamesW95 Wrote:  

Did your looks change dramatically? I look very ugly to myself but I think I'll be decent looking with a nice chin and jaw. At the moment it just plays on my mind constantly that people or girls just laugh in their head when I talk to them. Hopefully ill have it done in a couple of months time.

I'm a small guy and rather weak. I weigh 125 lbs at 5'7. Gonna consistently hit the gym. I used to go about a year ago and I was weighing 145 lbs and had a decent amount of strength but had to quit because of finances. Hopefully I'll get back up there.

My look changed so dramatically that at certain points after surgery my own mother had problems recognizing me who i was.

People who I grew up with back in the day, can only recognize me by my voice now due to complete change in my facial structure.

I would definitely start working out after your surgery ( i know for me i started before then had to stop due to the recovery time)

I dont know when your surgery is but hopefully that should give you time to possibly save up and get a gym membership. If not you're going to like the results.

Lately ( a year later after surgery) ive gotten so many complements from girls about how nice my smile looks, so its going to get better man.

Just hang in there

[JamesW95]

Very good to hear man. Thanks for sharing. Once I have this surgery all of my insecurities stemming from my abysmal jawline and chin will disappear.

I have a gym membership already and I've began working out. I'll probably lose all gains when I have the surgery so I'm just gonna focus on strength training for now as I'm very weak.

[Sketness]

@JamesW95 ... the most important thing is that you get your change your mindset.

It won't matter even when you get the surgery and your teeth are straight and your jaw is fixed. If you still have a the mind set of the guy before the surgery.

Its like when a ok girl gets a nose job then starts working out and becomes cute. Everyone now sees her as a cute 8 but she still sees herself as a ugly 4.

That will be you if you don't change your mindset.

Now the cool thing is, is that it only takes a couple of positive experiences for your whole outlook (when it comes to women ) to change.

To get those experiences you can start by giving yourself affirmations.

Start telling yourself. " im the fucking shit" "these girls are goofy" "Do they know who I am... Im JamesW95 im the coolest motherfucker out there"

Say that shit to yourself in the mirror ( it sounds stupid but it works)

You start with this + your facial features change from surgery= you're going to kill it man

[JamesW95]

I have come to the conclusion that I will use this thread as a tool to track my progress. Starting now I'll follow the Roosh program and have just bought Day Bang. I'm currently looking for a job as I'm about to drop out of university, and was wondering if any of you could offer me some tips. I've never been to an interview before and I have one for a decent job on Wednesday.

I'm going to use the time now before my surgery wisely and work on other aspects of my life besides my looks.

[Saweeep]

Don't not change your diet to "get into training".

Changing your diet NOW will make the gains in the gym come faster, help keep you on track as a result and you will feel much, much healthier when you start eating clean.

Diet is one of those things that can always be changed NOW. There is no excuse for not eating well.

Discipline.

[coverdoc]

(02-14-2015 10:32 PM)JamesW95 Wrote:  

I have come to the conclusion that I will use this thread as a tool to track my progress. Starting now I'll follow the Roosh program and have just bought Day Bang. I'm currently looking for a job as I'm about to drop out of university, and was wondering if any of you could offer me some tips. I've never been to an interview before and I have one for a decent job on Wednesday.

I'm going to use the time now before my surgery wisely and work on other aspects of my life besides my looks.

That is a great idea. I used two opportunities in my life to improve. When I was first growing my hair, I approached chicks on a daily, received a lot of rejections. When my hair grew longer, my game was already improved so my lay ratio went up.
Second was with braces. I approached everywhere from Europe to boston, received a lot of rejections, after they came off, my lay ratio went up. Use the time now as practice even if you feel ugly, so when that "physical" self improvement comes, the mentality will already be there.
-CD

[boywonder34]

(02-12-2015 12:57 AM)JamesW95 Wrote:  

In 5 months I'm having surgery to correct my jawline and my chin is going to be moved forward as well.

As other posters have said, it will make you feel a like a new person on the outside.

The way I see it, you have 5 months to get everything else in your life in order so that when the surgery is complete, you won't need make the other parts of your life catch up - they're already there.

For now I think you should focus on other things in your life maybe not girls. Focus on the gym and your job. If you have successes in those (and celebrate them, no matter how small), it will slowly build up your confidence. I don't think you should focus on girls at this point because in your mind, your jawline is holding you back. I want every other aspect of your life set up and ready by the time the surgery comes.

Do you ever disparage yourself? Eg see think of something you did in the past that was beta and think fuck I'm a loser for doing that? The only reason I ask is because other posters have picked up a bit of a "woe is me" attitude. I struggle with this but one way that can help is intercepting that thought with something else eg "I am the fucking shit" as another poster has suggested. You need to do it quickly before your self disparaging though completes.

You may have fucked up beliefs (eg I am undersirable, I suck etc) and you WILL act in accordance with those beliefs as if they were true, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT. The only way I know to get rid of those bad beliefs is to constantly present yourself with evidence to the contrary. One of those ways is to say to yourself "I am the fucking shit". Even if you think it is false, you will come to believe it if you expose yourself to it enough times.
The first couple of times you do it (I used to make it my ritual each morning when I saw myself in the mirror to say "I am a great guy"), you will feel a bit stupid for doing it, but over time you will see yourself starting to believe it.

It doesn't matter if you're 19 and a virgin. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, but the second best time is now. I wish I was in your position, with over a whole decade to improve myself.

But my main point is you want everything in your life to be ready in 5 months time. I do NOT want for you to have your surgery, THEN think, ok that is done, I will focus on area 1 and 2 next. They should already be done. A baby is made in 9 months. You can make yourself a new person in the same amount of time or less.

[JamesW95]

(02-15-2015 11:02 AM)boywonder34 Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 12:57 AM)JamesW95 Wrote:  

In 5 months I'm having surgery to correct my jawline and my chin is going to be moved forward as well.

As other posters have said, it will make you feel a like a new person on the outside.

The way I see it, you have 5 months to get everything else in your life in order so that when the surgery is complete, you won't need make the other parts of your life catch up - they're already there.

For now I think you should focus on other things in your life maybe not girls. Focus on the gym and your job. If you have successes in those (and celebrate them, no matter how small), it will slowly build up your confidence. I don't think you should focus on girls at this point because in your mind, your jawline is holding you back. I want every other aspect of your life set up and ready by the time the surgery comes.

Do you ever disparage yourself? Eg see think of something you did in the past that was beta and think fuck I'm a loser for doing that? The only reason I ask is because other posters have picked up a bit of a "woe is me" attitude. I struggle with this but one way that can help is intercepting that thought with something else eg "I am the fucking shit" as another poster has suggested. You need to do it quickly before your self disparaging though completes.

You may have fucked up beliefs (eg I am undersirable, I suck etc) and you WILL act in accordance with those beliefs as if they were true, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT. The only way I know to get rid of those bad beliefs is to constantly present yourself with evidence to the contrary. One of those ways is to say to yourself "I am the fucking shit". Even if you think it is false, you will come to believe it if you expose yourself to it enough times.
The first couple of times you do it (I used to make it my ritual each morning when I saw myself in the mirror to say "I am a great guy"), you will feel a bit stupid for doing it, but over time you will see yourself starting to believe it.

It doesn't matter if you're 19 and a virgin. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, but the second best time is now. I wish I was in your position, with over a whole decade to improve myself.

But my main point is you want everything in your life to be ready in 5 months time. I do NOT want for you to have your surgery, THEN think, ok that is done, I will focus on area 1 and 2 next. They should already be done. A baby is made in 9 months. You can make yourself a new person in the same amount of time or less.

I agree. I place way too much importance on what a girl thinks of me and I've bent over backwards at times to please them and get them to like me which has never worked. Right now I have 0 female contacts in my phone besides family, this is because I've stopped trying anymore and it's futile to continue to try and game when other aspects of my life are so messed up.

I do disparage myself quite a lot and put myself down a lot. My self esteem is at an all time low and I've become extremely jaded and cynical about the world. People around me have also said that I've become very negative In the past 2 years. Truth be told it's really hard trying to think "you're the man" when you have nothing to back it up.

And also the above poster, I literally am in debt and can't really afford the luxury of a high protein diet. I know this sounds dumb but it's the truth, I literally eat pasta all day because I'm unemployed. I have some interviews coming up for jobs so when I get a job I think it will restore some normality into my life and I can afford to change things like my diet and wardrobe.