[DonovanVC]

I've found that success comes with girls I approach during the "peak" hour(s) of a night out. For example, around 11:45-12:30 if the bar/club closes at 2 am.

However, last night I rolled solo and met two cute girls around 10:15 pm and we chilled for a good 40 minutes or so, before the girls decided to bounce to another venue.

I was a bit confused as to what to do with the set because I had things going good, but the "feeling" wasn't the same, as when you got a set hooked at the peak hours, when everyone is drunk, the dance floor is packed, and generally, that feeling of unpredictability is in the air.

What to do with a set you got something good going with early in the night, when the bar/club is barely full, the dance floor ain't got much going on, and everyone is sober?

I had a feeling those girls would be leaving at some point because frankly that club wasn't really one I would see girls like that at.

A few things ran through my mind:

1) Bounce them to another venue, especially since I could tell that wasn't their kind of spot

2) Escalate the set at the same venue (start doing shots, start more heavy kino/touching with the one I was more interested in)

3) Get their number(s) so that if they left, I could follow up later

I wasn't in favor of #3, since numbers in the club/bar haven't really worked for me. I was going for #2 but I think I should have gone with #1. Some other kinda weak guy jumped into the set at one point and started talking to one of the girls, but it wasn't really a good thing, he just was a bit awkward and didn't seem dangerous.

Anyway, I lost that set after investing some 40 minutes into it, but it felt different ,because the vibe of the venue was so chilled out, all I had was light kino going on and I didn't feel like pushing it too hard until the energy of the place went up as the night would go on, but by that time, it was too late.

[WestIndianArchie]

Must vets don't run into this, because those early sets are all throwaways and warm ups. A girl's state/buying temperature isn't up to where it needs to be that early. The mistake was arguably investing when you should have been circulating. On the other hand, if the chicks look good there oughta be a way to keep the party going.

So if you find yourself with a good vibe early on, you've got to bounce the set someplace hype but keep them with you. You can't go from mega dance club to mega gags club, because you'll lose the chicks. Too much comp, too familiar.

So if you're at a regular club, you take them to the international spot. High enough energy, but now they're less likely to stray or get pulled by the next dude. Getting a chick out of her comfort zone and into your world is the move.

Cocktails or chill out spot next, then bounce to the end locale.

Also, if your number closes suck, means your front end game needs work. A strong game that leads to quality day 2 is better than a random cold approach ONS game. So much can go wrong with a one night stand from a cold approach.

Overall the pattern is three or so warm up sets, followed by real sets. The chick with the best logistics is the ons target, but all the rest of the cooperating chicks should be number closed. Word to Brad P.

WIA

[DonovanVC]

(12-14-2014 11:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Must vets don't run into this, because those early sets are all throwaways and warm ups. A girl's state/buying temperature isn't up to where it needs to be that early. The mistake was arguably investing when you should have been circulating. On the other hand, if the chicks look good there oughta be a way to keep the party going.

So if you find yourself with a good vibe early on, you've got to bounce the set someplace hype but keep them with you. You can't go from mega dance club to mega gags club, because you'll lose the chicks. Too much comp, too familiar.

So if you're at a regular club, you take them to the international spot. High enough energy, but now they're less likely to stray or get pulled by the next dude. Getting a chick out of her comfort zone and into your world is the move.

Cocktails or chill out spot next, then bounce to the end locale.

Also, if your number closes suck, means your front end game needs work. A strong game that leads to quality day 2 is better than a random cold approach ONS game. So much can go wrong with a one night stand from a cold approach.

Overall the pattern is three or so warm up sets, followed by real sets. The chick with the best logistics is the ons target, but all the rest of the cooperating chicks should be number closed. Word to Brad P.

WIA

Thanks for the advice.

I do agree about the transition path you set out, and its something i've pulled off before. But we were already in the club with the "highest" energy - any alternative would have been lower, but it may have still been worth it because it may be more of "their" kind of spot, and in fact, even more my kind of spot. I just happened to be at the club because a promoter friend of mine was hosting an event in another part of the bar, but I ended up seeing this girls in the main area and didn't leave them for the first 40 or so minutes.

I don't know if I agree that its "too early" so that its a throw away set. I've seen guys literally go in, hit one set up, hook it, and stay with it the whole night and then pull the girls at nights end. It'd be a shame to be open that set up, spike their buying temperature, move on to another because its "too early", and then look back and see some other guy killing that previous set because you set the buying temperature up for him.

As for number closes not exactly working well from night game... I've actually seen that sentiment from a lot of guys on this board. To me, its more what happens after you get the number that night. If just talk to the girl for 10 minutes, get her number, but then hang out with another set for the rest of the night...then that number probably isn't going to be reliable. If you get the girl's number and 3 hours later, your at your crib having drinks, then that number suddenly gains some substance. For me, the problem is more "end game" rather than "front-end" game leading to numbers not working - I'm not consistently pushing the sets towards the end of the night ,so the numbers just aren't as reliable.

[WestIndianArchie]

(12-15-2014 12:06 AM)DonovanVC Wrote:  

I don't know if I agree that its "too early" so that its a throw away set.

Throwaway in the sense that when you see those first few sets, you're just "conversating" and not trying to seal any kind of a deal. You're not mentally investing/forecasting these chicks. They might as well be the door guy or the guy selling flowers. You use them to build up your own party state. And a secondary effect is that other people see you being social.

You might come back to that set later on in the night when they've been drinking, dancing, and been hit on by lames.

But I understand the problem.

2 chicks that look RIGHT @ 10pm, especially if you get rhythm from them, it's hard to walk away from. Provided that you and yours are not killing their vibe, but actually making it live.

The question then becomes, you've got these chicks on tip for 40 minutes, but they're willing to bounce. It means whatever good will you generated was lost if they're willing to bounce. A chick that is having a good ass time doesn't want to leave that good ass time.

They had to be either tired of you, bored, or think they could do better as the club got more packed.

(12-15-2014 12:06 AM)DonovanVC Wrote:  

I've seen guys literally go in, hit one set up, hook it, and stay with it the whole night and then pull the girls at nights end. It'd be a shame to be open that set up, spike their buying temperature, move on to another because its "too early", and then look back and see some other guy killing that previous set because you set the buying temperature up for him.

That's the game though. A chick in a club wants attention and alcohol, and then hopefully some guy will jump through all of her hoops and take her home.

The chicks you end up swooping @ 1:47 am are the result of a bunch of dudes hyping them up @ 11:10 pm.

(12-15-2014 12:06 AM)DonovanVC Wrote:  

As for number closes not exactly working well from night game... I've actually seen that sentiment from a lot of guys on this board.

I rarely see guys talk about night game/club game here. It's Day Game, OkCupid, "I'm in a foreign land talking to foreign girls in a language one of us is not fluent in"

But if you meet a chick and she's in to you (because of what you are saying and doing i.e. your game), and she's not too drunk - that should be a solid #. She's not going to meet anyone cooler and sexier that night.

I don't get the impression that guys are doing real work when it comes to a chick's headpiece on that first meet. It's certainly not in the details that people write about in their questions. Even in this query, you don't mention anything about banter, back and forth, body language changes, touch barriers being broken, any sort of compliance, whether or not you got logistics, if you handled any obstacles.

(12-15-2014 12:06 AM)DonovanVC Wrote:  

To me, its more what happens after you get the number that night. If just talk to the girl for 10 minutes, get her number, but then hang out with another set for the rest of the night...then that number probably isn't going to be reliable. If you get the girl's number and 3 hours later, your at your crib having drinks, then that number suddenly gains some substance. For me, the problem is more "end game" rather than "front-end" game leading to numbers not working - I'm not consistently pushing the sets towards the end of the night ,so the numbers just aren't as reliable.

A lot depends on your night game habit.

If the club is a "lock in", where people pay cover - they tend to stick around from 11-2. IMO, solid club game is opening multiple sets during the night and rocking with them sporadically. Chat with a bunch of chicks @ 11, dance with some @ 12:30. Figure out who the winners are @ 1, and then reconnect with everyone you met. Like the whole club is your personal house party.

If the club is easy in and easy out, or the club is dead, those early #'s require phenomenal game.

Which should lead into a discussion about Identity as a part of your Game, but I don't know if folks are into that aspect

WIA

[DonovanVC]

WIA...I love your writing. Damn, that shit is captivating.

Sorry, I don't know how to quote specific passages from your last reply.

- On the girls leaving after 40 minutes

They could have left early because they were bored. I had a random guy come in 30 minutes in and start talking to one of the girls, and he was awkward as fuck. In fact, he started talking to my target and I started to talk to the other girl, who was also bangeable. I'm not sure what happened, but I could tell they weren't feeling his presence and when they decided to leave, my original target came up to me and said bye, almost as if she didn't want to leave.

But I don't want to blame outside forces. I know when my game is dangerous, and days when its just sort of harmless small talk. This tended towards the small talk side - there wasn't active kino going on but I was very close up in these girls' space.

- On other guys taking girls whose temp I spiked early in the night

I agree, that is the game. But I didn't see any better alternative sets. In fact, I didn't see any better alternative sets the whole night, so I was hesitant to leave them. I guess I needed a better plan to bounce them to a better venue and I didn't execute on time.

- On numbers not sticking at night

I agree, there is a trend away from night game discussion on this forum. But like Roosh says, its all about the venue. Each city is different. As I mentioned, with this 2-set, my dialogue tended towards playful small talk, rather than dangerous flirting. It may have been the time of night. It may have been me not dialing it up enough yet (I probably would have dialed it up if I could have isolated the girl I preferred).

- Key takeaways


I like your emphasis on turning the club into a personal house party. I've used this approach in the past but shied away from it in recent times, because I don't like warming sets up for other guys. I've had experiences where guys I got friendly with in a club or bar came and crashed my sets later, or just came in innocently and fucked them up. But I might try it again and see how it goes.

What is "Identity...as part of your Game"? Could you elaborate on that?

Thanks...

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

If the club is a "lock in", where people pay cover - they tend to stick around from 11-2. IMO, solid club game is opening multiple sets during the night and rocking with them sporadically. Chat with a bunch of chicks @ 11, dance with some @ 12:30. Figure out who the winners are @ 1, and then reconnect with everyone you met. Like the whole club is your personal house party.
^^^
For the average player coming into any new club environment, I would concur this technique as the best way to leverage your potential for success

This can be called "seeding" your prospects, checking on them on occasion while you plant more through the night

Typically you want to give yourself as many options as possible but in estimation having 3 solid leads usually tips the odds in your favor for a pull.

This technique will keep you from placing all your hopes and eggs in one basket, keeps you social and open you uo to new opportunities, and builds up interest in those girls you've already chatted up because hopefully they can see you putting in work.

Choose from who shows the most interest from there

On those rare occasions when a hottie hooks heavy early in the night, promising her a dance later in the night while you mingle more only creates anticipation for you

*If you find your guys getting in the way, try arriving separately or doing your dirt all by your lonely

[XXL]

(12-14-2014 10:28 PM)DonovanVC Wrote:  

However, last night I rolled solo and met two cute girls around 10:15 pm and we chilled for a good 40 minutes or so, before the girls decided to bounce to another venue.

I was a bit confused as to what to do with the set because I had things going good, but the "feeling" wasn't the same, as when you got a set hooked at the peak hours, when everyone is drunk, the dance floor is packed, and generally, that feeling of unpredictability is in the air.

What to do with a set you got something good going with early in the night, when the bar/club is barely full, the dance floor ain't got much going on, and everyone is sober?

Flirt and get to know them a bit. Ask for their plans for the night, find out where they live, what they're doing tomorrow etc to know how to proceed.

Exchange phone numbers. It's OK. 40 minutes of face time is something. If they stay that long without with you getting bored then you're in good shape. Make sure they have your name in their contact lists. Don't leave right after exchanging phone numbers.

If there is a good chance to meet up later at night arrange that. Hammer it into their heads a bit.. "what's my name?", "when we're hanging out?", "cool, i'll text you later", "don't mute you phone", "you gotta party with your friends i gotta party with mine, but we're hanging out, when?". Really emphasize that you want to meet up with her later on and that you're taking her number to make it happen, not because it's some sort of nice routine.

If it's not possible, set up a date then and there. Don't just take their phone number as a routine. Let her know you want to see her again soon. Ask when she's free tell her when you're free. Negotiate a bit when you're seeing each other again. And again hammer it into her head that you want to SEE HER AGAIN and that her phone number is not just little meaningless trophy but a way to meet up again. So the emphasis is on the meeting up again, not the number itself.

It's important. Girls often give out their numbers left and right like it's nothing cause they don't expect it to go anywhere and that's when all those fucking flakes come from.

But first you have to know what's her situation and plan for the night so get to know each other and ask figure out logistics in between.

[WestIndianArchie]

(12-16-2014 12:44 AM)DonovanVC Wrote:  

What is "Identity...as part of your Game"? Could you elaborate on that?

Thanks...

I'm still mulling it over in my mind. But essentially, becoming a "character", but not "acting".

Lemme see if I can explain.

A lot of PUA's/Player's have touched on this concept in various forms.

I'm going to lean on Mystery and Brad P for some of this.

When you come into the pick up game, there are things that you can work on to do better with the ladies

- you can work on your body. Lose the fat, get the muscle, change the way your face looks
- you can work on your style. A new hair cut, clothes that are in style and that fit your body
- you can change your location, change your logistics, change your hunting grounds

- You can work on your game. Which is body language, not falling for the okey doke, and your openers, comebacks, jokes, and stories. Throw in a basic structure of how it's supposed to go, and now you have an idea of how to move things along in the direction you want them to move.

To paraphrase Elliot Hulse, he becomes the strongest version of himself. Maximizing his look, and becoming more social - it's the guy that's always been within him.

But that guy, that vest version of you, tends not to stand out in a lineup. Most of the work that you're doing to "romance" a chick is active.

Even if you've internalized all the "alpha mannerisms" and become that shot calling, big balling, non-reactive, frame controlling ideal - it's still a very active way to get what you want.

It is still just you fighting the good fight.

It's Bigger than Just You

Now bring in Mystery.

When a chick sees you, she sees what tribe you belong to. And she may be amenable to joining your tribe. So if you're in some J's and Athletic gear - you're in one tribe. A plaid shirt and some work boots - you're in a different tribe.

She wants to be in some tribes. Just like a chick wants to be with a muscular guy. So whatever off things that you might say or bad moves, she's willing to tolerate because these largely external things are of value to her.

Brad P has a take on this as well.

Change your "dressed up style" to one of a Sexy Stereotype. So if you enjoy heavy metal or indy rock, you go full on with that style. Not just wear a studded bracelet to look edgy.

A chick sees you as part of this generally sexy group, and all of the cultural conditioning and marketing starts to work on her. The heavy lifting is being done by the NY Ad Agencies, Fashion Magazines, and Beauty Blogs who are selling her a lifestyle.

Mystery + Brad P are hitting on something that most guys don't consider when they get ready for the night, even the way they prepare for the entire endeavor.

Brad P adds another piece called Identity.

Skillset determines the quantity of girls you bang
Identity determines the QUALITY of girls you bang.

So P takes the tribe/sexy stereotype/group membership concept and adds in the rest of his actual life. He was touring musician in a heavy metal band. His peer group was people in that scene, and a lot of his advice and antics derive from that experience

Now the lesson to grab from this is not "become a rock star", it's that he had a very strong identity.

If I tell you that I'm a rock star, you already have an idea in your mind of what that is.

If I were to tell you that I'm a race car driver, a professional athlete, a dj - boom,

Having some cool hobby/occupation and making that a theme throughout your actual life and in your game seems simple enough.

But I think what both Mystery and Brad P were getting at was something entirely different.

Before internet pick up, back when Game was something only black folks talked about, there was a concept called "Selling the Dream". Part of your overall rap to a chick was selling her a dream of what life would be like for her, if she got with you. This was something you did consciously and purposefully. You would literally tell a chick, "together we can do x, y, and z"

What if you were selling a chick the dream without verbalizing it?

I'm trying to get my head around these ideas. I think on RVF we call this passive game/lifestyle game - but it's not differentiated from the typical American Man's dream of being in shape, running his own business, and taking what he wants out of life.

You want to tap into a chick's "vision of what her life should be like".

And you do that through establishing an Identity that she recognizes.

So you're at the spot, she sees that you stand out, but she recognizes your brand before you rap. As you kick the knowledge, she's buying into your words and your image.

Rather than being some random guy with an accounting job and 3 series in the parking lot, you're a Spoken Word artist, and she can be that chick in the crowd who knows that your poem is actually about her.

I'm still working out the mental framework, but maybe this shed some light on the "club numbers typically fake"

A good rap + something bigger. A bitch should be excited when I call her. Right?

WIA

[DonovanVC]

Awesome stuff, all around, thanks everyone.

I agree with XXL - 40 minutes in one set rollin fuckin solo means something. I needed to seed that harder, and push it for a meet up later that night or later on.

But I like the game approach discussed here about locking a few groups down throughout the night. I'll put that in motion this weekend.

WIA - That identity shit is deep. It sounds like a mix of lifestyle, background and experiences that display themselves latently. The question then is how to let that shine without "actively" bringing it to life. I've lived in two countries in Asia and some dope cities in the US, recorded a few music albums, always into something new...how to make that shine passively.