[sonoran_]

I had my court date last week. The cop actually didnt submit my seatbelt ticket, only the U turn ticket.

I talk to the prosecutor and he says the cop is sick so we have to reschedule. I basically tell him thats not my fault. He says we will wait for the judge.

In front of the judge, the prosecutor himself waived it.

So I got super lucky, going from 300$ and demerit points to still having a clean record.

Thanks for all your advice and my suggestion for anyone else, go to court if the opportunity cost is in your favor.

[Rawmeo]

The system is based on everyone paying like sheeps going to the slaughterhouse. Go figure: Currently in my home country, 6% of people plead non guilty to their tickets, and the average time between pleading and going to court is 5 months! Now imagine if everyone decided to fight: the system would be overwhelmed. Do not pay the ticket mafia - plead non guilty, and you'll help make the system collapse and enjoy driving in peace.

[sonoran_]

exactly, let the snakes work for their money. I dont understand how people just take this stick up their ass without atleast making them work for it.

The only time you shouldnt go is if your time is worth more that the ticket.

[Rawmeo]

Mistake in my above post: 3% fight, not 6%. And it's still 5 goddam months. Imagine the number of cases dropped if 20%+ would fight. After 2 years, you can plead that the excessively long delay prevents you from making a proper defence... works in some places.

[Hypno]

after 2 years, the cop that wrote the ticket is probably not working for the same department. I had a motorcycle cop write a ticket for me. (You know his superiors thought highly of him that they didn't even give him a car and made him ride a bike.) I asked for a trial. They kept delaying because he crashed his bike and was in the hospital. They eventually dismissed the case.

[Steelex]

Its best to just not speed.

I used to get tickets all the time.

I don't speed now. No more tickets.

20 percent of the drivers get 80 percent of the tickets

[sonoran_]

never gotten a speeding ticket, however if everyone is going at 90+ while the limit is 80 and you follow the limit, youre kind of hindering traffic.

I always go 10% over the limit as I feel that is a fair tolerance range.

However in places like Australia I here that even 1 km/hr above is a penalty.

[Goldin Boy]

(05-30-2017 11:58 PM)Steelex Wrote:  

Its best to just not speed.

Fuck that. Speed limits are made for the worse, least capable drivers on the road. Just like all other rules in society, actually.

Bumping this thread because I have a trial for a ticket (79MPH in a 55MPH zone). This same cop has busted me 3 prior times and let me go the first 2. I was looking for way to defend myself and came across this method called the "tipmra".

It sites a lot of relevant, landmark case law (US only) and gives you bunch of different defenses(varying on how you were clocked). I paid $30 for it but since it's just a link to website you guys can have it for free(no login):

http://tipmra.com/kgb/new_page_5.htm

My state has a ton of case law and I'm preparing several of the defenses. Has anyone heard of or tried this before?

[Goldin Boy]

Either no tried it or cared to respond but bumping this because I tried the tipmra today at a trial.

Background:

1) My 79 in a 55 was a 6 pt speed.

2) 12 more pos = license suspension.

3)Female judge presiding.

TLDR; I lost. Might work for you though as the reasoning behind the defenses sounds good.I'll be concise.

1) ADA tries a last minute deal, I decline.
2) Clerk calls me.
3) Officer is present so I can't move for dismissal for that.
4) I move for dismissal(In Feb, is sent the DA a discovery request for info which he refused). The judge pulls out the discovery law and interprets it as not applicable to non-criminal offenses. 1 defense down.
5) Officer testifies. It was airtight, can't use the radar defense.
6) I go for the CFR hail mary (demanded an engineering survey done in the last 5 years as the per a fed law must be done on pub highways lest the limit is arbitrary/unenforcable because fed law supersedes state law) and move for dismissal. Denies on grounds that the prosecution no doesn't need to provide this.
7)I had to little to cross-examine Officer on. I rest my defense, guilty verdict.

All things considered it was educational but I'll probably get a lawyer next time.

[NewDayNewFace]

Just admit to speeding and asks prosecutor to bump it down so you get no points. I do this all the time when I get caught speeding. I have no problem paying the fines, I just don't want the points.

[Goldin Boy]

(06-21-2017 04:53 PM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  

Just admit to speeding and asks prosecutor to bump it down so you get no points. I do this all the time when I get caught speeding. I have no problem paying the fines, I just don't want the points.

Yeah I considered that but:

1) I wanted to test tipmra method. I would never know if it worked unless I try it.
2) I can take a defense driving course and reduce my points by 4.
3) Points in my state expire after 18 months. Point count from the day you get the ticket not the day of conviction. I was convicted today of an offense that happened a year ago, so they'll fall off in December.

I'm working on a appeal though.

Anyone have any suggestions for a good radar detector in the 200-300 dollar range?

[Cattle Rustler]

(06-21-2017 05:33 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 04:53 PM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  

Just admit to speeding and asks prosecutor to bump it down so you get no points. I do this all the time when I get caught speeding. I have no problem paying the fines, I just don't want the points.

Yeah I considered that but:

1) I wanted to test tipmra method. I would never know if it worked unless I try it.
2) I can take a defense driving course and reduce my points by 4.
3) Points in my state expire after 18 months. Point count from the day you get the ticket not the day of conviction. I was convicted today of an offense that happened a year ago, so they'll fall off in December.

I'm working on a appeal though.

Anyone have any suggestions for a good radar detector in the 200-300 dollar range?

With pigglets rolling out Lidar radards, a detector is pretty much pointless. Not to mention that most cops will not give you a warning if you have one and will go straight for a ticket. Radar detectors = you knowingly are trying to avoid cops.

Source: 15 warnings in the past 2 years, 1 ticket (only because I fell asleep at the wheel).

[renotime]

Seems that the way to go is to question the radar.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/7-simpl...icket-win/

[Cattle Rustler]

So I received a citation for driving with an expired car registration (1.5 years outdated). However, the state trooper wrote a bunch of stuff incorrectly on my citation. Should I hire an attorney or represent myself since the mistakes are numerous?

Among his mistakes:
- My license plate is: JAV9126 (fake plate for privacy)...the cop wrote JIV894.
*He is missing one character and only got 2 or 3 out of 7 characters correct. Less than 50% brahs!
- My plates are from Texas, the cop instead typed the state the where I got the ticket.
- My car is a 2011, the cop wrote 2009.
*Those are two entirely different models and look way different, the 2009 is a smaller car and does not look like mine.

Most websites say the judge or prosecutor can amend the license plate to match the correct one...but these are too many errors in my opinion, and the plates and car described in the citation does not look anything similar to what I drive.

[Suits]

How much is the fine and how many points are involved?

[Kona]

(09-05-2017 03:31 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

So I received a citation for driving with an expired car registration (1.5 years outdated). However, the state trooper wrote a bunch of stuff incorrectly on my citation. Should I hire an attorney or represent myself since the mistakes are numerous?

Among his mistakes:
- My license plate is: JAV9126 (fake plate for privacy)...the cop wrote JIV894.
*He is missing one character and only got 2 or 3 out of 7 characters correct. Less than 50% brahs!
- My plates are from Texas, the cop instead typed the state the where I got the ticket.
- My car is a 2011, the cop wrote 2009.
*Those are two entirely different models and look way different, the 2009 is a smaller car and does not look like mine.

Most websites say the judge or prosecutor can amend the license plate to match the correct one...but these are too many errors in my opinion, and the plates and car described in the citation does not look anything similar to what I drive.

Did you sign the ticket?

Aloha!

[Cattle Rustler]

(09-05-2017 03:57 AM)Suits Wrote:  

How much is the fine and how many points are involved?

$250 and the cop told me...0 points since it's not considered a moving violation.

(09-05-2017 04:17 AM)Kona Wrote:  

Did you sign the ticket?

Aloha!

Nope, Oklahoma has a system where they record the whole interaction and at the end the cop tells you "you don't need to sign the ticket because we just recorded you and serves as proof that you received the ticket. It's like an electronic signature".

The cop heard the reason why I was not able to renew it, and suggested I talk to the assistant DA and they might let me off the hook if I pay $200 court costs but maybe not since it's 18 months past due. So I figured these "technical mistakes" might be an easier way out.

[SlickyBoy]

You're lucky he didn't tow your car right then and there - almost always what happens with an expired registration stop.

The cop screwing up the plate number probably won't be enough to dismiss the case. Did he get the law right? And the car, car color, date of the infraction and the location of the incident correct? If not you might have some traction with a dismissal.

Radar/laser detectors won't solve all of your problems but they are definitely not a waste of money, and you do get what you pay for to some extent. Good resource here.

The cop is right - that isn't a moving violation but it is kinda steep. Take the morning from work to go to court, talk to the DA and get the fine reduced. Most people don't bother with this. I've done it for speeding tickets and even when they won't reduce the fine they'll often change it to something like defective equipment or another non-moving violation. Saves you big time on insurance and license points.

[Suits]

The only question is whether a lawyer or just paying the fine will be cheaper. Of course, if you lose, you'll still have to pay for the lawyer (assuming it isn't one that only gets paid if you win).

[SlickyBoy]

Paying the lawyer might be more expensive initially, but in the long run it could be cheaper. Then again, if you're only facing a non moving violation there wouldn't be any insurance increase from points etc. You can talk to the DA at your court date (or call their office) just as well as anyone else.

If you call a lawyer in that jurisdiction who handles traffic tickets a lot, he should be able to tell you up front what's at stake and give you a realistic idea of your chances of success.

[Higgs Bosun]

I got pulled over by a cop recently for a rear light malfunction. I'm sitting there, parked, waiting for the damn guy to get out of his squad car. When he finally does and walks over, he says I'm not wearing my seatbelt and he's going to write me up for that as well! I tell him I'm fucking parked on the side of the road and I had the seatbelt on when I was actually driving, which is true, to which he says "I don't know that, I see you're not wearing it now."

It's beyond infuriating to be written up for not wearing a seatbelt when parked, but as this is America, I don't know if it makes any sense to show up to court and try to argue it without hiring a lawyer. Any thoughts?

[SlickyBoy]

(09-06-2017 05:59 PM)Higgs Bosun Wrote:  

I got pulled over by a cop recently for a rear light malfunction. I'm sitting there, parked, waiting for the damn guy to get out of his squad car. When he finally does and walks over, he says I'm not wearing my seatbelt and he's going to write me up for that as well! I tell him I'm fucking parked on the side of the road and I had the seatbelt on when I was actually driving, which is true, to which he says "I don't know that, I see you're not wearing it now."

It's beyond infuriating to be written up for not wearing a seatbelt when parked, but as this is America, I don't know if it makes any sense to show up to court and try to argue it without hiring a lawyer. Any thoughts?

Sure - ask to see the dash cam footage of when he pulled you over. So long as you don't have a dark tinted back window it'll probably show the motion of when you removed your seat belt, once the car was stopped. If he were any good as a cop he would have seen that too since he should have been watching you while you were puling over.

Better subpoena the footage soon before it gets overwritten. Call the DA office and ask how to do that.

I would also check the statute of the seatbelt law - what does it say about when you have to wear it? Does it mean when **operating** a motor vehicle or also when you are sitting in it, while parked?

If it only pertains to you while operating, he just admitted that he didn't see you operating with or without it and can only assume you were not wearing it.

Remember that the state has the burden of proof, not you.

[Higgs Bosun]

(09-06-2017 06:10 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 05:59 PM)Higgs Bosun Wrote:  

I got pulled over by a cop recently for a rear light malfunction. I'm sitting there, parked, waiting for the damn guy to get out of his squad car. When he finally does and walks over, he says I'm not wearing my seatbelt and he's going to write me up for that as well! I tell him I'm fucking parked on the side of the road and I had the seatbelt on when I was actually driving, which is true, to which he says "I don't know that, I see you're not wearing it now."

It's beyond infuriating to be written up for not wearing a seatbelt when parked, but as this is America, I don't know if it makes any sense to show up to court and try to argue it without hiring a lawyer. Any thoughts?

Sure - ask to see the dash cam footage of when he pulled you over. So long as you don't have a dark tinted back window it'll probably show the motion of when you removed your seat belt, once the car was stopped. If he were any good as a cop he would have seen that too since he should have been watching you while you were puling over.

Better subpoena the footage soon before it gets overwritten. Call the DA office and ask how to do that.

I would also check the statute of the seatbelt law - what does it say about when you have to wear it? Does it mean when **operating** a motor vehicle or also when you are sitting in it, while parked?

If it only pertains to you while operating, he just admitted that he didn't see you operating with or without it and can only assume you were not wearing it.

Remember that the state has the burden of proof, not you.

My back and side windows are heavily tinted and this took place at night so I doubt the cam shows anything going on inside the vehicle.

Nevertheless, the cop pulled me over solely due to the rear light issue, not because he suspected I wasn't wearing my seatbelt, which he would not have been able to determine at any rate since he was always behind me and never abreast or in front of my car prior to pulling me over. He even informed me that he pulled me over because of the light, and only then asked me why I wasn't wearing a seatbelt.

My argument to the judge would be that I was pulled over for a lighting malfunction and the cop only added the seatbelt to the list once I was already parked on the side of the street, which he has no right to do as the car was parked and obviously not going anywhere. If the cop blatantly lies by disputing this and claims to have seen me not wearing my belt even before pulling me over, I will show pictures of my tinted windows, note the time of night, and point out that the cop was always behind me to try and convince the judge that it's extremely unlikely the cop could have seen me not wearing a seatbelt even if I wasn't wearing one, given the lighting conditions. Whether he'll be reasonable or not is another story.

Another quick question: does disputing a ticket of this nature take more than one court visit?

[sonoran_]

That is almost exactly like my case, if you happened to read previous posts.

He stopped for an illegal U turn but said the whole seatbelt BS as well.

I got lucky in that he didnt even file the seatbelt ticket, only the Uturn and he didnt show up to the court for that so got it waived.

[puckerman]

I know guys who have gotten their speeding tickets changed to muffler violations and stuff like that. You don't get the points that way. It will save you in the long run.