[Sourcecode]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio.../14987977/

Quote:

WASHINGTON — Command of the Army's main combat units — its pipeline to top leadership — is virtually devoid of black officers, according to interviews, documents and data obtained by USA TODAY.

The lack of black officers who lead infantry, armor and field artillery battalions and brigades — there are no black colonels at the brigade level this year — threatens the Army's effectiveness, disconnects it from American society and deprives black officers of the principal route to top Army posts, according to officers and military sociologists. Fewer than 10% of the active-duty Army's officers are black compared with 18% of its enlisted men, according to the Army.

Video

While I think overall.. the best man should be given the jobs period..
At a certain level.. minority enlisted men and women don't connect with their commanders.
Many enlisted men on the lower level.. aren't the smarted most educated and cultures people.
Some of them need people from the same background as them too look up to. and provide directional guidance.

[TonySandos]

All I see is p.c. agenda attempting to further ruin the military's efficiency.

Let the army reflect society. Until more black men get degrees in greater numbers, there won't be greater numbers of them in highest ranking officer positions. In the same brush that women are outnumbering men in college and degrees, it's easier for women to get an officer post if they bother to join the army in the first place.

" minority enlisted men and women don't connect with their commanders."

You're military right? Who actually does connect with officers? I know few people that desire being around officers of any stripe longer than a fifteen minute conversation.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Meh - no racism. In fact if you are an exceptional black man with a high IQ you might get promoted faster.

I believe it has more to do with the fact that most blacks who join the US military are derived from men who rather join due to lack of options in their own environment coming from bad schools, tough neighborhoods etc.

The ambitious highly intelligent black student usually does not think military when considering his career options.

The German military has an even stronger example, where the sizable Turkish immigrant population (2nd and 3rd generations already) is practically not represented in the officer ranks. The reasons are similar to the black community in the US, though it's more extreme there.

[WD-40]

The article states that

Quote:

Fewer than 10% of the active-duty Army's officers are black compared with 18% of its enlisted men, according to the Army

Still, overall, these numbers are roughly in line with black college enrollment, as black males currently make up 5.5% of all college students ages 18 and older.

[aSimpNamedBrokeback]

(12-12-2014 11:18 AM)Sourcecode Wrote:  

While I think overall.. the best man should be given the jobs period..

Nowhere in the article does it suggest promoting unqualified men into undeserved positions.

[WD-40]

(12-12-2014 12:34 PM)aSimpNamedBrokeback Wrote:  

(12-12-2014 11:18 AM)Sourcecode Wrote:  

While I think overall.. the best man should be given the jobs period..

Nowhere in the article does it suggest promoting unqualified men into undeserved positions.

No, but the implication is certainly that the military may be leaving precious leadership talent on the table, and this is something that needs to be looked at.

[TheWastelander]

Alternative theory: black officers, like many whites and latinos, are smart enough to get the fuck out before before they're even eligible to become Colonels.

[etshella]

I see this the same way, I see the faux argument about lack of blacks in Silicon Valley. The educational system isn't turning out enough blacks to be in these type of positions. Just like building a house, you need a foundation before putting the roof up.

It's not racism in the usual sense. It's racism in the sense that the educational system and the people who protect that system are failing young black men.

[SupaDorkLooza]

Quote:

The lack of black officers who lead infantry, armor and field artillery battalions and brigades — there are no black colonels at the brigade level this year — threatens the Army's effectiveness

effectiveness at what???

[TheWastelander]

(12-12-2014 01:01 PM)SupaDorkLooza Wrote:  

Quote:

The lack of black officers who lead infantry, armor and field artillery battalions and brigades — there are no black colonels at the brigade level this year — threatens the Army's effectiveness

effectiveness at what???

At appeasing a bunch of SJW journalism majors.

[AntiTrace]

Leadership is in the man, not his skin.

[Sam1234]

I think the left fears a military coup. A military run by white officers is a huge threat to the leftist cathedral.

[aSimpNamedBrokeback]

(12-12-2014 01:18 PM)Sam1234 Wrote:  

I think the left fears a military coup. A military run by white officers is a huge threat to the leftist cathedral.

[Foolsgo1d]

Maybe smart black men who could be officers aren't stupid enough to warrant throwing their life into the grinder. Smart black guys have avoided the trap most of their less intelligent peers have sprung by their communities. Give them that credit.

[Quintus Curtius]

The military is probably the most integrated institution in the US.

The days of there being "discrimination" in the armed services (or any government job) are long, long gone. If anything, there is a preference for minorities of all backgrounds for government jobs. All things being equal between two qualified candidates, preferences will be given for women and minorities. I say this not with bitterness but simply as a declaration of fact.

Those wishing to find the root causes of the small numbers of minorities at top levels of the military would be better advised to examine other factors. Institutionalized racism is not one of them.

[vinman]

This horseshit again. I could show you a pic of my Ranger School graduation class. I was easy to find because I was one of the few black guys in it. People forget we only make up 13% of the population so we're not going to be represented everywhere. It's always curious to me why so many "progressives" look for women and minorities everywhere, and if there aren't enough it's a problem. Maybe they don't want to participate?

[weambulance]

Promoting people for reasons other than merit is why two of my squad leaders were dangerously incompetent fucktards. One tried to get me to murder someone because he was "planting an IED" 100m from the road in a field, and the other couldn't keep his shit together to direct my fire in combat (I was gunning a bradley and didn't know where my dismounts were).

Another squad leader who was promoted for Diversity damn near let one of my friends die when said friend got shot in the face (ricochet, not direct) and the squad leader in question froze up and didn't render aid, causing the driver of the humvee to have to stop to help the wounded guy, endangering the whole section.

No, they were not all black. But they were quite clearly promoted early for Diversity. It wasn't exactly a secret that that shit was going on in my unit. This is the same unit that was happy to sweep crimes by NCOs under the rug so the commanders wouldn't look bad for having made poor promotion decisions. Go Army.

[Aliblahba]

   

[Truth Teller]

I know a black guy who went to West Point, was a Ranger, the whole nine yards. He got up to Captain before he decided that he'd had enough.

He now works for the FBI. I asked him why he left the Army, and he said that he couldn't deal with all the bullshit.

This isn't a question of racism. It's a question of people being smart enough to get out when they can.

"According to officers and sociologists." You mean the same officers and sociologists who are completely careerist, have never commanded anything outside of a desk, and then drive combat veterans out of the Army? Those officers and sociologists? I know of a Medal of Honor winner who was driven out of the Army by the careerists.

[Sourcecode]

(12-12-2014 01:24 PM)aSimpNamedBrokeback Wrote:  

(12-12-2014 01:18 PM)Sam1234 Wrote:  

I think the left fears a military coup. A military run by white officers is a huge threat to the leftist cathedral.

Troll worthy.but if anything.
With the amount of blacks in logistic roles..
A coup run by white officers would go nowhere without forward support logistics

(12-12-2014 12:11 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

Who actually does connect with officers? I know few people that desire being around officers of any stripe longer than a fifteen minute conversation.

I'm not saying there should be a friendship.. but a general respect.
An inner city black kid or a compton latino boy... are gonna have a hard time looking at their white officer as an authority figure.
The same way they look at white cops as scum.

The same way a country redneck farm boy from alabama.. probably won't think as highly of his black superior.

The military does a lot to mitigate problems, but with obvious tension in the social climate right now... you can look over these facts.



For the record...The army isn't saying they are planning to give unqualified people jobs.
They are trying to find ways to get a more "diverse" group of qualified people into combat positions.. as opposed to logistics and supply

[Sp5]

Military service is a tradition among black Americans. Their motivations are often different than white Americans who join. So it's not surprising that numbers in the combat arms branches might be less.

First, maybe because of the ambiguous relationship black Americans have had with the USA for historical reasons, they are not as big on the rah-rah flag waving that whites indulge in. They have a more pragmatic view of military service.

I can remember a couple of sardonic reactions to the expression of overtly patriotic sentiments among black NCOs and officers. It's not that they're not patriotic, it's that they are not the "by jingo" type of patriots.

It also means that less black guys are likely to enlist to just to fight "Hajii" than white guys.

Second, there are family and community traditions that have led black troops to military occupational specialties with more applicability in the civilian world. Quartermaster corps, Adjutant Generals' corp, Ordinance MOSs in the Army. My dad was a supply sergeant, etc.

Third, since the wars we had recently have turned out poorly and the survival of the USA is not at stake, the pragmatic and alienated view is to stay away from fighting in those wars.

There is a presence of hard-core black men in the combat arms branches: my basic airborne course was full of black "black hats." The archetype (or stereotype) of the tough black DI is grounded in fact. But there are also a lot of black personnel clerks, mechanics, etc.

[Old Fritz]

(12-12-2014 12:19 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Meh - no racism. In fact if you are an exceptional black man with a high IQ you might get promoted faster.

I believe it has more to do with the fact that most blacks who join the US military are derived from men who rather join due to lack of options in their own environment coming from bad schools, tough neighborhoods etc.

The ambitious highly intelligent black student usually does not think military when considering his career options.

The German military has an even stronger example, where the sizable Turkish immigrant population (2nd and 3rd generations already) is practically not represented in the officer ranks. The reasons are similar to the black community in the US, though it's more extreme there.

This. I actually considered joining the military but stopped because I have other options and plans.

[TonySandos]

(12-12-2014 04:03 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  

(12-12-2014 12:11 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

Who actually does connect with officers? I know few people that desire being around officers of any stripe longer than a fifteen minute conversation.

I'm not saying there should be a friendship.. but a general respect.
An inner city black kid or a compton latino boy... are gonna have a hard time looking at their white officer as an authority figure.
The same way they look at white cops as scum.

The same way a country redneck farm boy from alabama.. probably won't think as highly of his black superior.

The military does a lot to mitigate problems, but with obvious tension in the social climate right now... you can look over these facts.

That's a cultural issue that can very well roll over into some topics gleaned over in the Ferguson thread.

My take is that it's on them if they have an innate issue with the authority figure in such an integrative job and organization simply because the figure of that moment is white.

Further, it bother me that these views are often justified using a supposed redneck archetype that is queasy around black people. That's a lot of projection to me. Not to use personally experience a gauge of major level army operations, but I believe that reasonable explanation can prove that sentiments point in the other direction.

If my experiences of basic and the other present, those immediately around me, common conversation approaching the topic, ideals on the topic and directly addressing the topic point in the same direction of there nearly always being an absence of a problem with black leadership; it's logical conclusion that common sentiment that black leaders aren't a problem of white soldiers.

There is am ambiguous, negative connotation of white leadership(nco and commissioned) among black soldiers, but it's not necessarily the leaderships fault. I think it has to do with race being culturally acceptable as an excuse when not wanting to apply elbow grease is the true, underlying source. This explains why only the youngest guys display this behavior. A lot of the same men that complain about racist treatment or a good old boy system have their opinion do a 180 degree turn when they get promoted to sergeant.

It's more about bad character than color by any means to me.

[TonySandos]

Sp5;

From what I remember you saying is that you're Jewish.

You were speaking on reasons why black members end up joining, then mentioned your dad was a supply sergeant.

Does that mean you're Black AND Jewish?

[vinman]

(12-12-2014 04:03 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  

(12-12-2014 01:24 PM)aSimpNamedBrokeback Wrote:  

(12-12-2014 01:18 PM)Sam1234 Wrote:  

I think the left fears a military coup. A military run by white officers is a huge threat to the leftist cathedral.

Troll worthy.but if anything.
With the amount of blacks in logistic roles..
A coup run by white officers would go nowhere without forward support logistics

(12-12-2014 12:11 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

Who actually does connect with officers? I know few people that desire being around officers of any stripe longer than a fifteen minute conversation.

I'm not saying there should be a friendship.. but a general respect.
An inner city black kid or a compton latino boy... are gonna have a hard time looking at their white officer as an authority figure.
The same way they look at white cops as scum.

The same way a country redneck farm boy from alabama.. probably won't think as highly of his black superior.

The military does a lot to mitigate problems, but with obvious tension in the social climate right now... you can look over these facts.



For the record...The army isn't saying they are planning to give unqualified people jobs.
They are trying to find ways to get a more "diverse" group of qualified people into combat positions.. as opposed to logistics and supply

I'm from the projects on south side of Chicago. Don't get much "blacker" than that. Do I have a problem with authority? Fuck yeah, but I also had a job to do, and didn't want to end up in confinement. Or bounced out as a failure to the same neighborhood I was trying to escape from in the first place.

And redneck boys typically had to deal with evil black drill instructors that fixed that shit with a quickness.