[georgec]

It has always seemed to me there is a lot of bad info out there on Thailand and I want to correct some of it, at least. I've lived on and off there for about 10 years, throughout my twenties, and partied exensively, sometimes pretty much every night for weeks on end, in pretty much all areas, both nice and naughty. BKK is an huge heaving ugly city with no culture to speak of and tons of grit and dirt, but it's enormous good fun. It has incredible vitality and gets your blood going, for all it's ugliness.

1) Clubs. Unfortunately, clubs in BKK suck balls. It's incfredible to me that such an energetic city has such incredibly lame nightlife. No dancing. None. Standing around tables in groups. Huge crowds stuffed into small spaces making walking around impossible. You're stuck with your immediate surroundings. Thais morose and silent until they start drinking, then they open up. The only clubs that are fun as clubs are the after hours and a few foreigner oriented places on Suk 11, but they rarely get the best looking girls (although there are always a few hotties). All the best looking girls go to the lamest clubs, where the culture of timidity and caution makes sure no one knows how to have a really good time. It's a shame, and surprising that such a chaotic and vital city as BKK should have so cautious a club scene, but that's how the Thais like to do things. They are quite prim in their partying. Music sucks for the most part too, the most popular being cookie cutter hip hop - the worst of the worst - or some kind of bland techno. Occasionally some places have decent house or decent dance, but the clubs with the hottest girls play it safe and conventional - generally hip-hop.


1) Girls. This is a matter of personal taste, of course, but I suspect most white guys will not find them amazingly attractive. There are better looking girls in half a dozen European/A American cities, even American cities for that matter (NYC, Miami). Even if you walk through the upscale malls on weekends with the hottest girls, you won't be blown away. In sheer looks, Thai girls are average (with, of course, the occasional beauty to be seen, that every population has). They are often less attractive than other Asians as well. Their stregnths are their bodeis - it is extremely rare to find a genuinely pretty face, although they do exist, while finding a great hourglass figure is not unusual at all. I say this not only from my own taste- and I like Asian girls in general - but I've had many friends travel with me to Thailand and say the same thing. Of course tastes differ, but I think this would probably be the majority for white guys.

But Thai girls DO have certain excellent things going for them even if they are not the best looking. 1) They cultivate charm and grace, it is part of the feminine ideal there. They are good at it, too. It gets old after a while but they can be irresistably charming in the cutest feminine way, which is a huge pleasure for any guy to experience. They dress exquisitely well in a classy "glam" way that hasn't been seen in the West since the 20's. Since they are all thin, those with the delicious female hourglass shape have a chance to display their excellent figures - so many American girls who would be hot are ruined by fatness, it's a disgrace.

As you can see, most of what distinguishes Thai girls is a result of culture, not natural endowoments. They have made the best of fairly average gifts. That's admirable. All that being said, Thai girls are not ugly - there are some prefectly nice looking ones, some pretty ones. There are just few, very few, stunners, and few genuine beauties.

But they make up for it in other ways - they may not be the hottest, bbut the peculiar combination of personality, style, and reasonable looks can be quite compelling.

2) The popular myth has it that you have no chance with the respectable upper class women and should focus on the lower class ones. Funny thing is, this is the exact opposite of the truth - but only if you're young, stylish, and good looking, and good with women. If you're a young good looking white guy, there is a percentage of upper class girls that will be totally into you, many of them extremely pretty. They are savvy, sophisticated, have often been abroad, and there is no way anyone will mistake them for a whore seeing them with a young, cool guy. Of course, if you're older/uglier you had better stick to the low class girls. But that should be obvious.

The funny thing is that the lower class girls are often much less international minded and much less interested in foreingers, they are parochial and uncomfortable around the unfamiliar. The prettiest girls from this group will feel most comfortable with Asian guys, Thai guys prferably, but any other Asian category. They feel insecure about their social status and might well be seen as whores in the company of a white guy (social status is obvious in Thailand one you learn the markers, largely a matter of skin color, facial features, accent, and region of origin). A high status girl will never be mistakenf for a whore being seen with a foreigner,

The idea that the lower class girls are most interested in foreigners - an exact inversion of the reaity - is usually written from the perspective of older men who get women through money. That's why it's such a widespread meme - but it's false, trust me.

3) Money. Ahh, money. The girls for money. This is another interesting subject. No girl HAS to go with you - the prettiest p4p girls get tons of attention and can be just as choosy as a regular girl in a club, which makes them only good options for older guys who have little chance with the regular hotties in clubs. But for young guys, forget it. You might think you can get hotter girls for money, but you'd be wrong. The girls you'll get for money will be the exact smae level as those that you'd pull at a club. No better. If you can't get a hot regular girl, you won't be able to get a hot p4p girl. It may seem wierd and twisted but prostitution simply doesn't work in Asia the way we think it should in the West. It's ambiguous and full of rough edges and odd dimensions, neither fish nor fowl. I could write reams on this subject as it's endlessly fascianting and defies expectations in so many ways. Suffice it here to say that it's not just about money, there is an element of emotion involved, and it's not quite mercenary - they're more like mistresses than cutthroat mercenary whores, a dash of emotion, a dash of illusion, all lubricated by money and self-interest (which should never be lost sight of), but it takes more than money. The after hours places are FULL of hos and pros, but nearly all of them will go with you for free if they like you and you just treat them as a normal girl (unless you're older, in which case they'll expect money). If they don't like you - and they can be as fickel as normal girls - they won't go with you even for money.(Important caveat. I am talking about the top 10% of hot ho's - the ugly ones, as you'd expect, are far less demanding. )

6) Fights. Obviously, avoid them, but don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. The idea that the whole street will join in to beat you up is not only false - I've never seen this my entire time in Thailand - but absurd on the face of it. Think about it - would YOU risk injury to join in on a fight that you know nothing about simply becaus a foreigner is involved, especially if he's a big foreigner? In Thailand, people are even more into midning their own business than at home. Most Thais guys are quite small and won't be able to do a big guy damage even with the best intentions in the world. I"ve seen my fair share of Thai fights - more often than not it's small guys flailing away like mad with little fists, with almost no damage done. Of course, like in every country, there IS a tough-guy element that can be real dangerous charachters. Use your judgement. If the guy's big and mean, maybe you should back down. f there's 8 of them, maybe you should back down. Point is, use judgement, and don't be afraid to legitmately stand up for yourself. I've seen LOTS incidents involving foreigners in tense, almost violent sand-offs with Thais, and rarely did it become full blown violence. I've also seen some cases of Thais being bullied and threatened by foreigners, with nothing happening. It wasn't pretty, but it happens. The idea that Thais are just raring for a fight is completely false. They are infinitely less violent than people back in the West, and I've seen bouncers at shady after hours places use less violence than amost any big, black bouncer in NYC would use for a much smaller incident. Violence is extremely rare and easily avoided in Thailand, but subject to the same judgement you would use in your own country, don't be afraid to stand up for yourself.

I just can't sand the cowardice of the guys who tell you never to fight Thais - of course you should avoid violence if possible, but don't be a neutered, submissive, loser. That's just disgusting, guys.

[JoeDirt]

(04-19-2011 09:35 PM)georgec Wrote:  

It has always seemed to me there is a lot of bad info out there on Thailand and I want to correct some of it, at least. I've lived on and off there for about 10 years, throughout my twenties, and partied exensively, sometimes pretty much every night for weeks on end, in pretty much all areas, both nice and naughty. BKK is an huge heaving ugly city with no culture to speak of and tons of grit and dirt, but it's enormous good fun. It has incredible vitality and gets your blood going, for all it's ugliness.

1) Clubs. Unfortunately, clubs in BKK suck balls. It's incfredible to me that such an energetic city has such incredibly lame nightlife. No dancing. None. Standing around tables in groups. Huge crowds stuffed into small spaces making walking around impossible. You're stuck with your immediate surroundings. Thais morose and silent until they start drinking, then they open up. The only clubs that are fun as clubs are the after hours and a few foreigner oriented places on Suk 11, but they rarely get the best looking girls (although there are always a few hotties). All the best looking girls go to the lamest clubs, where the culture of timidity and caution makes sure no one knows how to have a really good time. It's a shame, and surprising that such a chaotic and vital city as BKK should have so cautious a club scene, but that's how the Thais like to do things. They are quite prim in their partying. Music sucks for the most part too, the most popular being cookie cutter hip hop - the worst of the worst - or some kind of bland techno. Occasionally some places have decent house or decent dance, but the clubs with the hottest girls play it safe and conventional - generally hip-hop.


1) Girls. This is a matter of personal taste, of course, but I suspect most white guys will not find them amazingly attractive. There are better looking girls in half a dozen European/A American cities, even American cities for that matter (NYC, Miami). Even if you walk through the upscale malls on weekends with the hottest girls, you won't be blown away. In sheer looks, Thai girls are average (with, of course, the occasional beauty to be seen, that every population has). They are often less attractive than other Asians as well. Their stregnths are their bodeis - it is extremely rare to find a genuinely pretty face, although they do exist, while finding a great hourglass figure is not unusual at all. I say this not only from my own taste- and I like Asian girls in general - but I've had many friends travel with me to Thailand and say the same thing. Of course tastes differ, but I think this would probably be the majority for white guys.

But Thai girls DO have certain excellent things going for them even if they are not the best looking. 1) They cultivate charm and grace, it is part of the feminine ideal there. They are good at it, too. It gets old after a while but they can be irresistably charming in the cutest feminine way, which is a huge pleasure for any guy to experience. They dress exquisitely well in a classy "glam" way that hasn't been seen in the West since the 20's. Since they are all thin, those with the delicious female hourglass shape have a chance to display their excellent figures - so many American girls who would be hot are ruined by fatness, it's a disgrace.

As you can see, most of what distinguishes Thai girls is a result of culture, not natural endowoments. They have made the best of fairly average gifts. That's admirable. All that being said, Thai girls are not ugly - there are some prefectly nice looking ones, some pretty ones. There are just few, very few, stunners, and few genuine beauties.

But they make up for it in other ways - they may not be the hottest, bbut the peculiar combination of personality, style, and reasonable looks can be quite compelling.

2) The popular myth has it that you have no chance with the respectable upper class women and should focus on the lower class ones. Funny thing is, this is the exact opposite of the truth - but only if you're young, stylish, and good looking, and good with women. If you're a young good looking white guy, there is a percentage of upper class girls that will be totally into you, many of them extremely pretty. They are savvy, sophisticated, have often been abroad, and there is no way anyone will mistake them for a whore seeing them with a young, cool guy. Of course, if you're older/uglier you had better stick to the low class girls. But that should be obvious.

The funny thing is that the lower class girls are often much less international minded and much less interested in foreingers, they are parochial and uncomfortable around the unfamiliar. The prettiest girls from this group will feel most comfortable with Asian guys, Thai guys prferably, but any other Asian category. They feel insecure about their social status and might well be seen as whores in the company of a white guy (social status is obvious in Thailand one you learn the markers, largely a matter of skin color, facial features, accent, and region of origin). A high status girl will never be mistakenf for a whore being seen with a foreigner,

The idea that the lower class girls are most interested in foreigners - an exact inversion of the reaity - is usually written from the perspective of older men who get women through money. That's why it's such a widespread meme - but it's false, trust me.

3) Money. Ahh, money. The girls for money. This is another interesting subject. No girl HAS to go with you - the prettiest p4p girls get tons of attention and can be just as choosy as a regular girl in a club, which makes them only good options for older guys who have little chance with the regular hotties in clubs. But for young guys, forget it. You might think you can get hotter girls for money, but you'd be wrong. The girls you'll get for money will be the exact smae level as those that you'd pull at a club. No better. If you can't get a hot regular girl, you won't be able to get a hot p4p girl. It may seem wierd and twisted but prostitution simply doesn't work in Asia the way we think it should in the West. It's ambiguous and full of rough edges and odd dimensions, neither fish nor fowl. I could write reams on this subject as it's endlessly fascianting and defies expectations in so many ways. Suffice it here to say that it's not just about money, there is an element of emotion involved, and it's not quite mercenary - they're more like mistresses than cutthroat mercenary whores, a dash of emotion, a dash of illusion, all lubricated by money and self-interest (which should never be lost sight of), but it takes more than money. The after hours places are FULL of hos and pros, but nearly all of them will go with you for free if they like you and you just treat them as a normal girl (unless you're older, in which case they'll expect money). If they don't like you - and they can be as fickel as normal girls - they won't go with you even for money.(Important caveat. I am talking about the top 10% of hot ho's - the ugly ones, as you'd expect, are far less demanding. )

6) Fights. Obviously, avoid them, but don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. The idea that the whole street will join in to beat you up is not only false - I've never seen this my entire time in Thailand - but absurd on the face of it. Think about it - would YOU risk injury to join in on a fight that you know nothing about simply becaus a foreigner is involved, especially if he's a big foreigner? In Thailand, people are even more into midning their own business than at home. Most Thais guys are quite small and won't be able to do a big guy damage even with the best intentions in the world. I"ve seen my fair share of Thai fights - more often than not it's small guys flailing away like mad with little fists, with almost no damage done. Of course, like in every country, there IS a tough-guy element that can be real dangerous charachters. Use your judgement. If the guy's big and mean, maybe you should back down. f there's 8 of them, maybe you should back down. Point is, use judgement, and don't be afraid to legitmately stand up for yourself. I've seen LOTS incidents involving foreigners in tense, almost violent sand-offs with Thais, and rarely did it become full blown violence. I've also seen some cases of Thais being bullied and threatened by foreigners, with nothing happening. It wasn't pretty, but it happens. The idea that Thais are just raring for a fight is completely false. They are infinitely less violent than people back in the West, and I've seen bouncers at shady after hours places use less violence than amost any big, black bouncer in NYC would use for a much smaller incident. Violence is extremely rare and easily avoided in Thailand, but subject to the same judgement you would use in your own country, don't be afraid to stand up for yourself.

I just can't sand the cowardice of the guys who tell you never to fight Thais - of course you should avoid violence if possible, but don't be a neutered, submissive, loser. That's just disgusting, guys.

I'm Spanish and I noticed that Thais in general are racist as fuck, i'm not even black i'm basically Spaniard but was born in Dominican Republic my skin is white but i have dark hair and dark eyes, but seriously if you are a white guy that dresses in trendy gap clothe with blue eyes and blonde hair, Thais will be all on your dick, hell you might be last in the line to get food but they will give you the food first and bypass the rest of the people.

Anyway the time invested to get a upper class girl is just too much, i prefer the whores with booty shorts and tattoos, i'm not interested in relationships when i go to SE asia.. if i want a relationship i'll stay right here in Miami.

[JoeDirt]

Oh yeah and about the fights, my last day in thailand some thai dudes were jealous as fuck of me being with some pretty chics and spending money, the dude was eyeballing me the whole night and when i said what are you looking at, the cat went crazy and started walking in circles and yelling and his boys were holding him back, I was ready to smash a bottle in his face if he kept getting closer but he was rolling deep i would've gotten my ass kicked that night by like 8 of them.

Anyway the thai males that hang around in bars and shit or just kick it where foreigners chill are jealouse as hell, they think everyone is rollin with a extreme amount of cash and just because your from America your life is made.

But whatever.. just don't pay no attention to those dudes next time i wont even bother to say " what are you looking at" just keep on laughing and enjoying my time and let the haters hate

[hydrogonian]

yeah, be careful with that. that dude and his friends might not stop until you aren't breathing / moving.

[Beavis]

georgec, awesome post.

in terms of the dynamic with upper class women, does it also apply in Phuket or is Phuket not really part of Thailand. I understand that Pattaya is just a big brothel but my sense is that Phuket is tourism driven but by no means exclusively sex-tourism driven.

are there parts of Bangkok that are actually pleasant in terms of air quality, greenery, neighborhood feel? or is it all either hyper glitzy nouveau riche chauffered cars or worn down congested slumy

also, how is yr Thai? I am only interested in picking up the basics (ie everyday conversation to start, and then being able to follow tv w time). do you think that one can get a solid foundation in 3 months. i've learned a bunch of languages but always in a comprehensive/academic/overly time intensive way. wondering if thai is a good candidate for a crash-course, just the basics approach.

thanks!

[georgec]

Beavis - I've only been to Phuket once, for about a week, but I remember metting some great middle class girls in a club. The club was in the middle of the tourist area so it is quite likley these girls had a particular thing for white dudes - the mostly Thai areas in Phuker, where you'll find the best girls, are away from the beach and in town proper. Unfortnately I never partied there, so I can't say for sure what kind of reaction you'd get. If I had to guess, I'd say odds are pretty good there is a decent percentage of the upper class Phuket girls are quite open to foreigners. I can't say for sure, though. I know that in Chiang Mai, another provincial town, there definitely IS the same kind of thing going on - i.e, a healthy percentage of girls quite into of young, cool foreign guys.

I want to add, as I might not have made it clear in my initial post, that the very far from ALL upper class girls are accepting of foreigners. Most probably are not. But a HUGE minority are, enough to give you tons of options - and fun!

As for your second question, short answer;no. No parts of BKK proper are green and pleasant. There are some outlying suburban areas that are very pleasant and nice, but their a longish way from where the action is. Asians don't like to organize their cities like Westerners. Asians like to cram as many people as possible into the smallest place, add tons of shops and signs and billboards, and make things as exciting as possible. The result is heady, even intoxicating, but hardly peaceful. Don't despair, though. For once, you quickly get used to it, even to crave it and get a buzz off it. Two, there are countless sanctuaries from the din and heat - the endless commercial actvitiy means countless cool, air-conditioned stores like 7-11's and enormous malls which might sound tacky, but are actually great for people watching, etc. And finally, many apartment buildings are set off the main roads and are SOMEWHAT quiter.

Most neighborhoods have a very mixed feel - nice apartment buildings fronting grimy streets with traditonal vendors outside. To me, this is part of Bangkoks charm. Few neighborhoods in BKK proper have an "exclusive" rich feel, and few are outright slummy. It's a huge sensory assault, but the calm and good nature of the people make it easy to bear, and it really isn't so bad!

If you're good at languages, Thai should be a snap to pick up - no grammer to speak of. Only problem is the tones. The same word can mean different things depending on the tone. It's not nearly so difficult as it sounds once you get used to it. Once that's mastered, Thai is a snap. I myself only speak it to a fairly basic level, but then I'm lazy.

[nomadicdude]

(04-19-2011 10:06 PM)JoeDirt Wrote:  

(04-19-2011 09:35 PM)georgec Wrote:  

It has always seemed to me there is a lot of bad info out there on Thailand and I want to correct some of it, at least. I've lived on and off there for about 10 years, throughout my twenties, and partied exensively, sometimes pretty much every night for weeks on end, in pretty much all areas, both nice and naughty. BKK is an huge heaving ugly city with no culture to speak of and tons of grit and dirt, but it's enormous good fun. It has incredible vitality and gets your blood going, for all it's ugliness.

1) Clubs. Unfortunately, clubs in BKK suck balls. It's incfredible to me that such an energetic city has such incredibly lame nightlife. No dancing. None. Standing around tables in groups. Huge crowds stuffed into small spaces making walking around impossible. You're stuck with your immediate surroundings. Thais morose and silent until they start drinking, then they open up. The only clubs that are fun as clubs are the after hours and a few foreigner oriented places on Suk 11, but they rarely get the best looking girls (although there are always a few hotties). All the best looking girls go to the lamest clubs, where the culture of timidity and caution makes sure no one knows how to have a really good time. It's a shame, and surprising that such a chaotic and vital city as BKK should have so cautious a club scene, but that's how the Thais like to do things. They are quite prim in their partying. Music sucks for the most part too, the most popular being cookie cutter hip hop - the worst of the worst - or some kind of bland techno. Occasionally some places have decent house or decent dance, but the clubs with the hottest girls play it safe and conventional - generally hip-hop.


1) Girls. This is a matter of personal taste, of course, but I suspect most white guys will not find them amazingly attractive. There are better looking girls in half a dozen European/A American cities, even American cities for that matter (NYC, Miami). Even if you walk through the upscale malls on weekends with the hottest girls, you won't be blown away. In sheer looks, Thai girls are average (with, of course, the occasional beauty to be seen, that every population has). They are often less attractive than other Asians as well. Their stregnths are their bodeis - it is extremely rare to find a genuinely pretty face, although they do exist, while finding a great hourglass figure is not unusual at all. I say this not only from my own taste- and I like Asian girls in general - but I've had many friends travel with me to Thailand and say the same thing. Of course tastes differ, but I think this would probably be the majority for white guys.

But Thai girls DO have certain excellent things going for them even if they are not the best looking. 1) They cultivate charm and grace, it is part of the feminine ideal there. They are good at it, too. It gets old after a while but they can be irresistably charming in the cutest feminine way, which is a huge pleasure for any guy to experience. They dress exquisitely well in a classy "glam" way that hasn't been seen in the West since the 20's. Since they are all thin, those with the delicious female hourglass shape have a chance to display their excellent figures - so many American girls who would be hot are ruined by fatness, it's a disgrace.

As you can see, most of what distinguishes Thai girls is a result of culture, not natural endowoments. They have made the best of fairly average gifts. That's admirable. All that being said, Thai girls are not ugly - there are some prefectly nice looking ones, some pretty ones. There are just few, very few, stunners, and few genuine beauties.

But they make up for it in other ways - they may not be the hottest, bbut the peculiar combination of personality, style, and reasonable looks can be quite compelling.

2) The popular myth has it that you have no chance with the respectable upper class women and should focus on the lower class ones. Funny thing is, this is the exact opposite of the truth - but only if you're young, stylish, and good looking, and good with women. If you're a young good looking white guy, there is a percentage of upper class girls that will be totally into you, many of them extremely pretty. They are savvy, sophisticated, have often been abroad, and there is no way anyone will mistake them for a whore seeing them with a young, cool guy. Of course, if you're older/uglier you had better stick to the low class girls. But that should be obvious.

The funny thing is that the lower class girls are often much less international minded and much less interested in foreingers, they are parochial and uncomfortable around the unfamiliar. The prettiest girls from this group will feel most comfortable with Asian guys, Thai guys prferably, but any other Asian category. They feel insecure about their social status and might well be seen as whores in the company of a white guy (social status is obvious in Thailand one you learn the markers, largely a matter of skin color, facial features, accent, and region of origin). A high status girl will never be mistakenf for a whore being seen with a foreigner,

The idea that the lower class girls are most interested in foreigners - an exact inversion of the reaity - is usually written from the perspective of older men who get women through money. That's why it's such a widespread meme - but it's false, trust me.

3) Money. Ahh, money. The girls for money. This is another interesting subject. No girl HAS to go with you - the prettiest p4p girls get tons of attention and can be just as choosy as a regular girl in a club, which makes them only good options for older guys who have little chance with the regular hotties in clubs. But for young guys, forget it. You might think you can get hotter girls for money, but you'd be wrong. The girls you'll get for money will be the exact smae level as those that you'd pull at a club. No better. If you can't get a hot regular girl, you won't be able to get a hot p4p girl. It may seem wierd and twisted but prostitution simply doesn't work in Asia the way we think it should in the West. It's ambiguous and full of rough edges and odd dimensions, neither fish nor fowl. I could write reams on this subject as it's endlessly fascianting and defies expectations in so many ways. Suffice it here to say that it's not just about money, there is an element of emotion involved, and it's not quite mercenary - they're more like mistresses than cutthroat mercenary whores, a dash of emotion, a dash of illusion, all lubricated by money and self-interest (which should never be lost sight of), but it takes more than money. The after hours places are FULL of hos and pros, but nearly all of them will go with you for free if they like you and you just treat them as a normal girl (unless you're older, in which case they'll expect money). If they don't like you - and they can be as fickel as normal girls - they won't go with you even for money.(Important caveat. I am talking about the top 10% of hot ho's - the ugly ones, as you'd expect, are far less demanding. )

6) Fights. Obviously, avoid them, but don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. The idea that the whole street will join in to beat you up is not only false - I've never seen this my entire time in Thailand - but absurd on the face of it. Think about it - would YOU risk injury to join in on a fight that you know nothing about simply becaus a foreigner is involved, especially if he's a big foreigner? In Thailand, people are even more into midning their own business than at home. Most Thais guys are quite small and won't be able to do a big guy damage even with the best intentions in the world. I"ve seen my fair share of Thai fights - more often than not it's small guys flailing away like mad with little fists, with almost no damage done. Of course, like in every country, there IS a tough-guy element that can be real dangerous charachters. Use your judgement. If the guy's big and mean, maybe you should back down. f there's 8 of them, maybe you should back down. Point is, use judgement, and don't be afraid to legitmately stand up for yourself. I've seen LOTS incidents involving foreigners in tense, almost violent sand-offs with Thais, and rarely did it become full blown violence. I've also seen some cases of Thais being bullied and threatened by foreigners, with nothing happening. It wasn't pretty, but it happens. The idea that Thais are just raring for a fight is completely false. They are infinitely less violent than people back in the West, and I've seen bouncers at shady after hours places use less violence than amost any big, black bouncer in NYC would use for a much smaller incident. Violence is extremely rare and easily avoided in Thailand, but subject to the same judgement you would use in your own country, don't be afraid to stand up for yourself.

I just can't sand the cowardice of the guys who tell you never to fight Thais - of course you should avoid violence if possible, but don't be a neutered, submissive, loser. That's just disgusting, guys.

I'm Spanish and I noticed that Thais in general are racist as fuck, i'm not even black i'm basically Spaniard but was born in Dominican Republic my skin is white but i have dark hair and dark eyes, but seriously if you are a white guy that dresses in trendy gap clothe with blue eyes and blonde hair, Thais will be all on your dick, hell you might be last in the line to get food but they will give you the food first and bypass the rest of the people.

Anyway the time invested to get a upper class girl is just too much, i prefer the whores with booty shorts and tattoos, i'm not interested in relationships when i go to SE asia.. if i want a relationship i'll stay right here in Miami.

Yeah, Thais are pretty messed up. I'm Indian-American. Thais hate Indians more than any thing in the world. It is fucking unbelievable. My theory is that they are self-haters. They hate that they have darker skin and features and they take it out on anyone else who has it. It is fucking lame. I avoid Thailand like the plague. Basically all Asian countries are filled with self-haters who love the white man no matter what, but Thailand is in a league of its own.

[Beavis]

exceedingly helpful.

phuket town looks quite charming. something like that or cm appeals. i shouldnt have said 'green' as that is obviously asking too much for anywhere in asia.

i like yr generalization about asian cities, but would say that there is a fair amount of variety between Saigon on one end and Tokyo on the other. Sure Tokyo has hyper centres but it also has lots of little neighborhoods. I guess it boils down to Thailand still being a relatively poor place but I was wondering if there might even be old areas that are getting gentrified rather than torn down and rebuilt. i liked chinatown in bkk but only for a few days.

any suggestions about meeting these upper class thai girls while only town for a few weeks or a month would be appreciated. i have a few male friends who are very well positioned but kinda want to keep the dating and networking separate.

thanks for this quality info

edited for this question/clarification: is there any where in bkk like the french concession in shanghai?

[JoeDirt]

(04-19-2011 11:14 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

yeah, be careful with that. that dude and his friends might not stop until you aren't breathing / moving.

Yeah... that guy was having temper tantrums, he was in his late 20's, he was a little chunky so i figured he probably didn't practice Muay Thai, i had the big bottle of Tiger Beer in my hand ready to smash him in the dome if he got any closer, i actually thought it was going to go down, i figured i'll smash that dude right in his face and just play my back against the bar and try to do something against the other 7, but since i was the one spending $ like it was nothing in cocktails and shit.. my last night in thailand and they were sippin on the same beer for hours the bouncersmanagers stepped in and put them in their place, i just decided to leave at that moment and move on to something else.

but seriously next time i will avoid bangkok all together and just go either to the islands or way north and rock a straw hat with sandals and chill the fuck out..Bangkok is not even a very well planned city.. is like the LA of south east asia a huge sprawling metropolis, nasty looking and so much pollution it will make your ass cough and turn your white shirt into brown in 3 hours.

If i want big Asian cities i'll stick to Seoul and HK..

[georgec]

Indian dude - Thais have negative stereotypes about literally everyone who is not Thai. It's just so much nonsense, though. They have some bad stereotypes about white guys too. It doesn't matter. I personally know Indians in BKK who clean up, with some of the hottest things out there. Some of the richest and most successful families in BKK are sihks. Being Indian in BKK is not great but is far from a death sentence - with respect, though, outside of India where would it be easier for you? if you're cool and young, I bet you BKK is sitll easiest for an Indian dude out of India.

Beavis -I hear where you're coming from. I used to long for the small, green, Thai city that still ha sgreat nightlif and partying, but I haven't found it. CM is a nice little place, but it is WAY less cosmopolitan than BKK, and you make a real sacrifice living there. Thailand is like France in the sense that it is a real One City nation; one city attracts all the talent, all the wealth, all the action. Stuff goes on elsewhere, but the drop-off is HUGE. Still, though, plenty of people enjoy living in the provinces.

There's some older areas around Kao San (banglampu) with older style houses, etc, but they are no refuges from the noise and grime. I suppose it's as charming as it gets - close to chinatown, too. Not everyone's cup of tea, though. As for the rest, there are no neighborhoods with what you'd call real "charachter", or even historical charachter, but amidst the general uniformity of Thai chaos and grime there are small differences in feel and tone - some neighborhoods slightly quiter, slightly ritzier. Thonglor is the poshest (best clubs) but also dullest. Lower Sukumvit is whore central. Best bet is upper Suk for for something more middle-class and Thai try Ratchada - much cheaper, too, and a few subway stops from Suk.

As for meeting upper class Thais, meainly the clubs on Ekkamai, Thonglor, and to a lesser extent RCA. I tend NOT to go on weekends as these places get PACKED and you can't move. It's insane. weekdays often get great crowds and more breathing room. Around RCA there are a few after hours with mostly "good" girls - baroque, and a few others. Ask around - always new ones, and people know. These places get hot girls and can be great fun, and stay open till very late. Most of the clubs on Ratchada road - several stay open very late - tend to not get such hot girls, and a mostly Thai crowd, but can still be fun. The nasty after hours which get uglier girls and tons of trshy foriengers are better on weekends, where they get a real sprinkling of hotties floating on from elsewhere around (all the taxis know these particular after hours). Sukumvut 11 has one good club - Bed, and it's not great. Tuesday on it gets a crowd, with always a sprinkling of hotties, but nothing compared to the regular Thai clubs (wednsdays model night, great crowd, and VERY approachable). The girls here are more used to westerners, tho. Q bar sucks, mostly ugly girls.

Might want to try MIXX club, but only Wednsdays (ladys night), when it's like 10 girls for every guy. Lot of these girls are high end whores, but by no means all.

BKK is highly centralized, and for meeting hotties there is no real reason to stray from Ekkamai, Thonglor (funky villa, etc), and RCA, and then meet people, make friends, and find out about the latest upscale after hours - the nasty after hours are permanent, and the taxis all know.

Dress well and you'll have TONS of opportunity!

[The Duke]

(04-19-2011 09:35 PM)georgec Wrote:  

It may seem wierd and twisted but prostitution simply doesn't work in Asia the way we think it should in the West. It's ambiguous and full of rough edges and odd dimensions, neither fish nor fowl. I could write reams on this subject as it's endlessly fascianting and defies expectations in so many ways. Suffice it here to say that it's not just about money, there is an element of emotion involved, and it's not quite mercenary - they're more like mistresses than cutthroat mercenary whores, a dash of emotion, a dash of illusion, all lubricated by money and self-interest (which should never be lost sight of), but it takes more than money.

Well put georgec! I left Thailand & the Philippines puzzled in terms of this. Your words bring some clarity to what I experienced. Thanks.

(04-19-2011 09:35 PM)georgec Wrote:  

The popular myth has it that you have no chance with the respectable upper class women and should focus on the lower class ones. Funny thing is, this is the exact opposite of the truth

I've experienced the same as a white guy living in India.

[Lumiere]

Glad you agree with me on nightlife. Most people on here rave about it but I mostly think its sucks these days bearing in mind the size of the city.

I first went to BKK in 1995 and it was better back then.

[Gringo]

Nice post.

Quote:

BKK is an huge heaving ugly city with no culture to speak of

It's big and busy sure but no culture? Lots of history & culture IMO.

Quote:

Clubs. Unfortunately, clubs in BKK suck balls. It's incfredible to me that such an energetic city has such incredibly lame nightlife. No dancing. None. Standing around tables in groups.

I know a lot of clubs I went to were like this, everyone just keeping themselves to themselves in groups at tables etc but went to many that were like any normal club with proper dance floors and everyone dancing etc. I never think to take not of club names unfortunately.

Quote:

Girls. This is a matter of personal taste, of course, but I suspect most white guys will not find them amazingly attractive

Yet to meet a single person who goes to Thailand and isn't blown away by the Thai beauties. Definitely the best in SE Asia IMO.

[speakeasy]

(04-20-2011 04:00 AM)Gringo Wrote:  

Yet to meet a single person who goes to Thailand and isn't blown away by the Thai beauties. Definitely the best in SE Asia IMO.

There are beauties to be found in Thailand no doubt about it, but I think the majority of Thai women I saw across the country look like this:


This is the exception:


That's what I observed after 3 weeks there.

[beebopaloo]

Great post, Georgec.

Sure helped to explain some of the weird dynamics going on in BKK.

However about your bar fight analysis, I'd better stay out of it. Even though they are small, I did see a couple of beer bottles being smashed in the faces during bar fights - and I was just in Thailand for a month.

A guy might be small but if you get a beer bottle in your face, the party/fight is more or less over.

What is your perspective on getting numbers vs. make outs in the upper class joints? I am one of those stylish, blue eyed guys you were talking about.

I found it a lot more difficult to extract girls from their groups in places like Funky Villa, RCA and so on, cause they often hang out in mixed groups. So I'd get their phone numbers, but it would just turn into a headache getting them out on a date.

So I ended up pulling from places like Spicy, Narcissus...

[Entropy4]

I hung out with a British-Indian guy in Thailand when I was there and everyone loved him. The accusations of racism on this board, as usual, are blown way out of proportion.

I miss Thailand... want to go back.

[hydrogonian]

Quote:

6) Fights. Obviously, avoid them, but don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. The idea that the whole street will join in to beat you up is not only false - I've never seen this my entire time in Thailand - but absurd on the face of it. Think about it - would YOU risk injury to join in on a fight that you know nothing about simply becaus a foreigner is involved, especially if he's a big foreigner? In Thailand, people are even more into midning their own business than at home. Most Thais guys are quite small and won't be able to do a big guy damage even with the best intentions in the world. I"ve seen my fair share of Thai fights - more often than not it's small guys flailing away like mad with little fists, with almost no damage done. Of course, like in every country, there IS a tough-guy element that can be real dangerous charachters. Use your judgement. If the guy's big and mean, maybe you should back down. f there's 8 of them, maybe you should back down. Point is, use judgement, and don't be afraid to legitmately stand up for yourself. I've seen LOTS incidents involving foreigners in tense, almost violent sand-offs with Thais, and rarely did it become full blown violence. I've also seen some cases of Thais being bullied and threatened by foreigners, with nothing happening. It wasn't pretty, but it happens. The idea that Thais are just raring for a fight is completely false. They are infinitely less violent than people back in the West, and I've seen bouncers at shady after hours places use less violence than amost any big, black bouncer in NYC would use for a much smaller incident. Violence is extremely rare and easily avoided in Thailand, but subject to the same judgement you would use in your own country, don't be afraid to stand up for yourself.

I just can't sand the cowardice of the guys who tell you never to fight Thais - of course you should avoid violence if possible, but don't be a neutered, submissive, loser. That's just disgusting, guys.

Good overall post, but this is dangerous and poorly thought out advice.

Even if what you say you observed is true, which I don't doubt that it is, what's the point exactly of "standing up for yourself" in Thailand? What do you stand to gain other than the possibility of injury, death or incarceration?

Just because YOU didn't observe anything that should tell you to back away from fights with Thais doesn't mean that doing so inst good advice based on what happens on a statistical basis when people fight Thais.

Dude, using shaming language to tell guys to not be afraid to fight Thais is some weak shit. If you can't avoid fights, even if you have to back away, when your a guest in a foreign country then that makes you a fucking huge loser and a bad guest. No offense. You should be willing to put your pride away when your traveling, for both the sake of your own safety and freedom as well as the fact that engaging in such things further ruins the reputation of all westerners.

Honestly, if your a fighter, fight at home. Control yourself when your traveling, unless you get physically attacked.

Also, most guys that think that not fighting makes you a submissive neutered loser haven't been in too many fights. Usually jail sentences or injury makes believers in good behavior out of experienced fighters.

[Gringo]

Quote:

are there parts of Bangkok that are actually pleasant in terms of air quality, greenery, neighborhood feel?

There's a few parks and stuff around. I used to get off one of the BTS stops (forget which now) and go to a big park with pond (few turtles and fish in it), basketball courts, fitness equipment etc in it and sit or walk around with a girl. Found it really funny when every day at a certain time the national anthem would get played and everyone would stop what they were doing and stand up.

[georgec]

Beepo - making out at upper class joints, unless in the bathrooms, is not gonna happen. In the upscale after hours (not to mention the spicy type places) it is a real possibility, as the hour is late and wild. Getting numbers - you are expected to text immediately after you leave the club/separate and continue the interaction through text that same night, if there is any serious interest. It's probably best also to suggest after hour drinks or a late night meal. Generally if there is not SOME level of interaction immediately after the club finsihes - either through text or a shared meal, it probably won't go anywhere. Going home with you that same night is not at all uncommon. Quite possible.

Re violence - Of course you should stick out of fights if possible, but some people write reports that some westerners were beaten up at an apple store for daring to make a complaint about a product! This is preposterous. Point is, many westerners want to spread fear and make it seem as if you can never, under any circumstances, stand up for yourself. It's nonsense. It's a prouct of a loser mentality that is unfortunately all too common amongst a certain type of Western ex-pat. I'm not saying if someone steps on your toes you shoudl challenge him - that's retarded. But some people write as if questioning a bill will get you beaten up by the entire street. Certain types of loser ex-pat exaggerate the violence, and suggest you should never stand up for yourself, in order to paper over their own inability/unwillingness to stand up for themselves. Unfortunately this is extremely common and tarnishes the image of Westerners in Thailand.

Hydro, NOT backing down when you are right gives Westernernes a bad name? Allowing Thais to exploit you is part of being a good guest? One must leave one's pride at home when travelling? These are EXACTLY the kinds of attitudes that give rise to some of the bad things Thais think of us. Many thais think we are weak and easily taken advantage of, because this bizarre attitude of cringing submissiveness seems so widespread amongst Westerners. Thailand is a quasi-aristocratic society where displaying proper pride and self-respect are HUGELY important. Many thais are baffled - and contemptously amused - at the lack of pride we display when dealing with them.

Don't be rude. Be polite. Be respectful. Avoid fights. Don't make a big deal of trivial incidents. But demand respect, don't be afraid of standing up for yourself, and don't allow yourself to be exploited. Seems reasonable, no?

All this being said, you will almost NEVER have real cause for trouble with Thais, who are friendly and polite for the most part.

[Gringo]

Quote:

In the upscale after hours (not to mention the spicy type places) it is a real possibility, as the hour is late and wild

Can you name a few of the more upscale after hour places?

I've been to Spicy a few times and some other equally as sleazy (but not as busy or fun clubs - forget the names) but never anywhere that 'normal' girls go. Always end up in the ones full of pro's due to not knowing where the better ones are. Most of the locals I spent time with didn't seem that aware of after hour places and would call it a night at 2am when the normal places shut down.

[Expandedhorizon]

All this talk of Thais being racist has got me thinking twice….
I’m headed over there in two weeks!!

Although my friend was in south East Asia four six months, two of
Which he spent in Thailand, and he loved it!! In fact he literally said
I must go! And he’s at least 3 shades darker than Wesley snipes…..

I guess I’m about to find out for myself

[JoeDirt]

(04-20-2011 01:14 PM)Expandedhorizon Wrote:  

All this talk of Thais being racist has got me thinking twice….
I’m headed over there in two weeks!!

Although my friend was in south East Asia four six months, two of
Which he spent in Thailand, and he loved it!! In fact he literally said
I must go! And he’s at least 3 shades darker than Wesley snipes…..

I guess I’m about to find out for myself

is not that serious kid..go you will have the time of your life.

[Expandedhorizon]

(04-20-2011 11:18 AM)Gringo Wrote:  

Quote:

In the upscale after hours (not to mention the spicy type places) it is a real possibility, as the hour is late and wild

Can you name a few of the more upscale after hour places?

I've been to Spicy a few times and some other equally as sleazy (but not as busy or fun clubs - forget the names) but never anywhere that 'normal' girls go. Always end up in the ones full of pro's due to not knowing where the better ones are. Most of the locals I spent time with didn't seem that aware of after hour places and would call it a night at 2am when the normal places shut down.

(04-20-2011 01:56 PM)JoeDirt Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 01:14 PM)Expandedhorizon Wrote:  

All this talk of Thais being racist has got me thinking twice….
I’m headed over there in two weeks!!

Although my friend was in south East Asia four six months, two of
Which he spent in Thailand, and he loved it!! In fact he literally said
I must go! And he’s at least 3 shades darker than Wesley snipes…..

I guess I’m about to find out for myself

is not that serious kid..go you will have the time of your life.

Lol …. Hey I’m not overly sensitive in that respect, I’m pretty laid back

Well up to a point!

[Entropy4]

I'm really blown away by all of the racism-mongering that goes on in threads these days. If you're black or Indian in Thailand you may only bang 5 girls a month instead of 8 if you're white. The country is amazing and the people are genuinely more friendly than 99% of the rest of the world. Go there and have a blast.

[Expandedhorizon]

(04-20-2011 02:47 PM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

I'm really blown away by all of the racism-mongering that goes on in threads these days. If you're black or Indian in Thailand you may only bang 5 girls a month instead of 8 if you're white. The country is amazing and the people are genuinely more friendly than 99% of the rest of the world. Go there and have a blast.

lol..... ok ok point taken