[TheFinalEpic]

(11-29-2014 02:08 PM)berserk Wrote:  

Are you rich OP? Good post, but like with game advice, it carries more weight if you walked the walk and not just talked the talk.

I know a couple of people who are well off, one is 'rich' by relative terms already (in private banking levels) and one is only well off, but stacking enough aside to be a millionaire by 40.

One is an investment banker who worked extremely diligently and goal oriented since 18 to be exactly that and who never missed a day of work unless very sick, extremely disciplined and confident in own ability, most would say with a bit of a chip on the shoulder. Smart guy too, but not genius level.

The other is an early entry IT guy, journalist by education, but extremely smart, succeeds at just about everything. Is a chess grandmaster, published several books, scrabble champ, poker champ, avid runner, got into all kinds of new tech and mastered it very quickly and able to move quickly because of financial freedom already. Very high IQ.

The point is, all these self improvement books aside, you need to be exceptional to get rich. A guy with average intelligence and average creativity can't just will his way to wealth. You need to figure out what you are exceptional at and then work like a madman at that until you look around and you don't see many who are as exceptional as you.

I'm talking 'rich' here, not just 'well off' or 'doing ok'.

(11-29-2014 05:03 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

You had me until Kiyosaki's name showed up. That man is an abject fraud and lies about everything from his military record, his real estate deals to the very existence of "rich dad." This guy breaks it down the best.

But the rest of those books are solid.

The problem with Kiyosaki in my opinion is just that while he is a very good teacher for the layperson in thinking right about money and investments, his entire teachings could be taught in about 10-20 pages and not multiple books.

I am not "rich" by any means, but see the path and taking the steps to become what I envision for myself, this post was to help others get into the right mentality that working for others, while you can make a large salary, you will not create wealth by doing it unless you plant the seeds to grow more money for yourself.

As for the comment on "it takes an exceptional person" you are correct. But, intelligence is not a key factor in people getting rich. There is no correlation between a person's grades and their lifetime income. It takes something else that many people do not have, this being discipline, creativity, seeing what other's do not see (market opportunities), ability to solve problems, and drive/motivation. Self improvement books will only do so much, they become mental masturbation if you do nothing about what you've learned.

The first step, however, is an undying belief in yourself and what you can do. After that, it's up to you what you do with that belief. For me, I don't just dislike the idea of working for someone else, but I loathe it, it use it as the fire to never sell out into a corporate position or the like. It takes much harder work than working for someone else, I'm up 16 hours a day, I take weekends to continue to build what I'm working on. Its much harder to do what I am suggesting as opposed to living off an income from a job, but in my eyes, its worth it.

[CaptainChardonnay]

You guys can forget McDonalds unless owning and managing a bunch of McDonalds is all you want to do. I interviewed a McDonalds manager who owned 5 McDonalds locations several years ago for a college paper and he told me that owners of McDonalds are required to work at and manage the McDonalds they own completely. They are not allowed to just invest in opening a McDonald's location and letting day to day operations go by. This makes sense for McDonalds as a company as the owner's restaurants will be his sole concern.

I'm currently going through Felix Dennis' book right now, almost done. One thing that stuck out to me was to pursue the industries where the money is coming from. Do not blindly think that just because you succeeded in real estate that that is your calling. His example was when he wrote the Bruce Lee biography instead of focusing on capitalizing on Bruce Lee's death, he was more concerned with his magazine business and that ended up costing him a lot of money.

"The point is, all these self improvement books aside, you need to be exceptional to get rich. A guy with average intelligence and average creativity can't just will his way to wealth. You need to figure out what you are exceptional at and then work like a madman at that until you look around and you don't see many who are as exceptional as you."

I dont agree with this, I think you need to just hire the people with the intelligence to do those tasks for you... and read books

Another great book would be The Millionaire Fastlane

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(11-29-2014 03:51 PM)CaptainChardonnay Wrote:  

You guys can forget McDonalds unless owning and managing a bunch of McDonalds is all you want to do. I interviewed a McDonalds manager who owned 5 McDonalds locations several years ago for a college paper and he told me that owners of McDonalds are required to work at and manage the McDonalds they own completely. They are not allowed to just invest in opening a McDonald's location and letting day to day operations go by. This makes sense for McDonalds as a company as the owner's restaurants will be his sole concern.

...

I would not recommend opening a McDonalds in the West as of now. Only in EE, FSU, SEA, China. And there you can hire a general manager after having opened 4 or 5. And even before that you can hire people who do more administrative work. I know 2 guys personally who own 2 & 4 McDonald's restaurants in Poland. They work very little & one is preparing to hire a general manager now. In the beginning they worked way more, but both of them are low to mid-level $-millionaires now.

And yes - McDonald's wants investors to have skin in the game and be their main business & work. It's not the most sexy work, but it helps you reach the goal.

[TheFinalEpic]

McDonalds is not a franchise I'd personally get in because I don't believe in the product. But the fact is that if you can find a product to introduce into a foreign market that works well, it can be worth it.

Quote:

"The point is, all these self improvement books aside, you need to be exceptional to get rich. A guy with average intelligence and average creativity can't just will his way to wealth. You need to figure out what you are exceptional at and then work like a madman at that until you look around and you don't see many who are as exceptional as you."

I dont agree with this, I think you need to just hire the people with the intelligence to do those tasks for you... and read books

Now yes, hiring the right people is imperative, but the drive to get into the position to hire the right people is required. A smart employee will need a manager (aka. you) to motivate them, to give them a reason to work their ass off every day for you and your company. Its all part of the equation.

[Vitriol]

(11-28-2014 04:39 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

Regardless, all men trade the most valuable resource of all: time. I would even argue that you could have all the money in the world, but if you don't have the time to do the things and be with the people you love, you are not wealthy.

So in all reality, even though you are seeking the almighty dollar, it is really the all powerful grandfather clock you are working against, with hopefully enough time left to really live your life. What the masses do not understand is that being an employee is slow suicide. But the manosphere gets this notion, so I needn't delve much deeper.

This is my main motivation to get out of my current job eventually and either be self-employed or own some kind of business. I was in school for my whole life until about 3 years ago, and after having to go to someone else's office and work for them every day, something started to bother me, but I didn't realize what it was until recently. It just doesn't feel right to commit yourself to a boring routine where you trade off most of your waking hours just to get a paycheck. I finally realized that I can't do something like that long-term, I feel too restless and unfulfilled.

At this point I would be totally happy if I could make a similar income to what I have now, but be self-employed so it wouldn't take up as much of my time. I'm just getting started in trying to make it on my own, but from what I've read, the path of investing small amounts and hoping you're rich in 10-30 years is really a bad idea. There's too much of an opportunity cost to your lifestyle if you're always trying to pinch pennies, and you never know how those investments are going to turn out.

I think what would be ideal would be to have enough expertise in some niche that you could command very high wages for your services and pretty much work as little or as much as you wanted.

[TheFinalEpic]

There is a difference between passive and active income however. This is another case of "different strokes for different folks", in that you may be satisfied with working for yourself and having time for other things. But I'm talking about your money making more money all by itself. Now, taking 1/10th your income and saving it to place into investments and things that will generate more is not a bad idea, it is the road to financial freedom.

A wage is never going to lead to substantial wealth. If you trade time for money, you are wasting your time on Earth. Time is the most important resource of all men, generate money, then let that money become your employee.

[SlickyBoy]

(11-29-2014 10:51 AM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

Quote:

You had me until Kiyosaki's name showed up. That man is an abject fraud and lies about everything from his military record, his real estate deals to the very existence of "rich dad." This guy breaks it down the best.

But the rest of those books are solid.

I don't disagree, and have read many places that he is indeed a fraud. However, the book gets you into the correct MINDSET. It is truly the mind that can make you rich, and the first thing you have to do is unplug from being an employee to looking for opportunity on your own.

He gives you the correct mindset by what? Lying to you and charging for a book to deliver all of the lies? No thanks. His books are chock full of flat out wrong tax advice, inane platitudes and contradictions. BTW, he declared bankruptcy after a 23 million dollar lawsuit from his business partners back in 2012 - not the guy you should be taking advice from when it comes to mindsets on how to get rich. I would never recommend his books to anyone, even as paperweights.

[SlickyBoy]

(11-29-2014 02:08 PM)berserk Wrote:  

The problem with Kiyosaki in my opinion is just that while he is a very good teacher for the layperson in thinking right about money and investments, his entire teachings could be taught in about 10-20 pages and not multiple books.

The problem with Kiyosaki is he pretends to be in the finance/investment line business when in reality he is in the show business. Avoid.

[Peregrine]

Quote:

A wage is never going to lead to substantial wealth. If you trade time for money, you are wasting your time on Earth. Time is the most important resource of all men, generate money, then let that money become your employee.

Earning a wage is a viable way to generate initial capital, and it's not necessarily worse than running a business. Everyone should choose the best option available to them.

[Travesty]

From guys I know that have made over 7 figures in a year or from second hand stories from friends that know them, they do it through expertise first.

They either get to the top of their field or on the way to the top they notice faults in their respective industry and go out and sell a solution to that fault.

I know on Shark Tank you see people come up with consumer products like a new a window screen patcher or an alcohol bottle designed cover, or guys run a service and hustle in a market where there is alot of competition etc...

I think those are longer shots in general.

Find what you are good at, spend time to network and learn that industry. Find a problem with that industry and solve it. I think that is the most surefire way to starting a successful and lucrative business and the guys that made a lot of money without family help etc... (or how their rich dads/grandfathers did it for the ones that got help) seem to do this.

[TheFinalEpic]

(11-30-2014 09:06 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

(11-29-2014 10:51 AM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

Quote:

You had me until Kiyosaki's name showed up. That man is an abject fraud and lies about everything from his military record, his real estate deals to the very existence of "rich dad." This guy breaks it down the best.

But the rest of those books are solid.

I don't disagree, and have read many places that he is indeed a fraud. However, the book gets you into the correct MINDSET. It is truly the mind that can make you rich, and the first thing you have to do is unplug from being an employee to looking for opportunity on your own.

He gives you the correct mindset by what? Lying to you and charging for a book to deliver all of the lies? No thanks. His books are chock full of flat out wrong tax advice, inane platitudes and contradictions. BTW, he declared bankruptcy after a 23 million dollar lawsuit from his business partners back in 2012 - not the guy you should be taking advice from when it comes to mindsets on how to get rich. I would never recommend his books to anyone, even as paperweights.

He declared corporate bankruptcy, which is a tool of all businesses to restructure and build again in a different direction. Donald Trump declared bankruptcy 4 times, the mans worth well over 2.5 billion. Now in terms of mindset, he teaches the very basic ideals of working to create businesses and become an investor, which are true, and how so many people have reached financial freedom in the past.

Edit: I agree that the man is an author, not a business tycoon that he claims to be. That being said, the mentality he teaches is the correct one.

[TheFinalEpic]

(11-30-2014 10:22 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

From guys I know that have made over 7 figures in a year or from second hand stories from friends that know them, they do it through expertise first.

They either get to the top of their field or on the way to the top they notice faults in their respective industry and go out and sell a solution to that fault.

I know on Shark Tank you see people come up with consumer products like a new a window screen patcher or an alcohol bottle designed cover, or guys run a service and hustle in a market where there is alot of competition etc...

I think those are longer shots in general.

Find what you are good at, spend time to network and learn that industry. Find a problem with that industry and solve it. I think that is the most surefire way to starting a successful and lucrative business and the guys that made a lot of money without family help etc... (or how their rich dads/grandfathers did it for the ones that got help) seem to do this.

Precisely. The guys that really blow up and do well for themselves are problem solvers of much larger industries, or find a niche that is not being exploited by many others. In another thread on starting a successful business, its noted that looking for markets with A.) less than 200mil market cap or B.) industries with no clear frontrunner, or a clear #1 and no concrete #2 are the best places to look when starting a new business.

[SlickyBoy]

(11-29-2014 05:44 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

McDonalds is not a franchise I'd personally get in because I don't believe in the product....

This is going to hold you back more than anything else.

It isn't like you have to eat at McDonalds yourself or feel bad for the fools who do. The heir to Baskin Robbins had a similar outlook and let it all go, saying he just couldn't promote butterfat to the masses. Well, that's great for someone who was probably seen off with a sizable trust fund and a spot in daddy's will, but if you do not and you still want it badly enough, you'll take the opportunities as they present themselves and make hay while the sun shines.

If you're still feeling down about it after you're rich, at least you'll be able to afford therapy, push some political action committee or whatever else - you'll have options.

Now is not the time for self limiting behavior.

[SlickyBoy]

(11-30-2014 11:38 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

He declared corporate bankruptcy, which is a tool of all businesses to restructure and build again in a different direction. Donald Trump declared bankruptcy 4 times, the mans worth well over 2.5 billion. Now in terms of mindset, he teaches the very basic ideals of working to create businesses and become an investor, which are true, and how so many people have reached financial freedom in the past.

Edit: I agree that the man is an author, not a business tycoon that he claims to be. That being said, the mentality he teaches is the correct one.

He declared bankruptcy because the LLC did not have enough money in it to pay the judgment rendered against him. The LLC shields him from losing his house over it, and for all his talk about wealth, Kiyosaki's actual net worth is something of a mystery.

Now that you mention it, I was seriously disappointed when Trump - a real businessman - agreed to do a book with Kiyosaki. But over the years Trump has become even more of a showman. He was probably well compensated to sell his name to Kiyosaki, someone not even in the same league.

What, specifically, does Kiyosaki teach about getting rich that you find so compelling, and where in his book? I'm curious. The best description I've heard of praises from the cult is this:

Quote:

I think these “made me think about finances” comments are inarticulate at best and dishonest at worst. What is really going on is a lot of people are schlepping along doing a half-ass job of managing the financial aspects of their lives. Rich Dad Poor Dad slaps them up side the head and tells them to clean up their acts. That’s good, but the book goes on to deliver a pack of lies that make getting rich seem much easier than it really is and make education sound much less valuable than it really is. Basically, people want to get rich quick without effort or risk. Kiyosaki is just the latest in a long line of con men who pander to that fantasy.

[TheFinalEpic]

(12-01-2014 12:55 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

(11-29-2014 05:44 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

McDonalds is not a franchise I'd personally get in because I don't believe in the product....

This is going to hold you back more than anything else.

It isn't like you have to eat at McDonalds yourself or feel bad for the fools who do. The heir to Baskin Robbins had a similar outlook and let it all go, saying he just couldn't promote butterfat to the masses. Well, that's great for someone who was probably seen off with a sizable trust fund and a spot in daddy's will, but if you do not and you still want it badly enough, you'll take the opportunities as they present themselves and make hay while the sun shines.

If you're still feeling down about it after you're rich, at least you'll be able to afford therapy, push some political action committee or whatever else - you'll have options.

Now is not the time for self limiting behavior.

I have worked in sales in the past, and the #1 rule is to believe in the product that you are selling. I don't believe in fast food, and thus, I wouldn't sell it. There are plenty other sectors you could bring into a foreign country, but thats not one I personally could. It has to do with your integrity and if its not something you love, you're going to hate it regardless of it doing well or not.

[TheFinalEpic]

(12-01-2014 01:27 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

What, specifically, does Kiyosaki teach about getting rich that you find so compelling, and where in his book? I'm curious. The best description I've heard of praises from the cult is this:

Quote:

I think these “made me think about finances” comments are inarticulate at best and dishonest at worst. What is really going on is a lot of people are schlepping along doing a half-ass job of managing the financial aspects of their lives. Rich Dad Poor Dad slaps them up side the head and tells them to clean up their acts. That’s good, but the book goes on to deliver a pack of lies that make getting rich seem much easier than it really is and make education sound much less valuable than it really is. Basically, people want to get rich quick without effort or risk. Kiyosaki is just the latest in a long line of con men who pander to that fantasy.

Getting rich isn't rocket science. There are set out paths to becoming rich, and he doesn't preach the "get rich quick schemes". The things that personally I believe are good in his books are that he advocates financial education, he shows you that modern society isn't going to teach you how to become financially independent (especially through traditional schooling), he shows how to build net worth through asset acquisition instead of buying liabilities, and he is also a proponent of teaching children about money and that the topic isn't taboo.

You have to take the good with the bad, keep an open mind, and look for the positives in his message. His books are what brought my dad into ownership of his own company, and that forever changed my goals of getting a job into building companies and wealth.

[SlickyBoy]

I've done sales also and nobody seems to agree on what the number one rule is, but whatever it may be, sales most definitely does not require you to like what you sell. You need not lie about it, but you don't have to like it or drink your own Kool Aid.

The guy selling Hyundai cars may not actually drive one - does that make him a fraud? Ditto for fast food - you don't have to like what you sell and it doesn't compromise your integrity to offer something to a market outside of your own personal habits. But to each his own, if you're that bothered by it then you won't do well.

As for taking the good with the bad, you seem only willing to take the good (what little there is of it) from Kiyosaki and ignoring the treacherously bad. That man hasn't demonstrated any kind of business acumen whatsoever other than separating money from fools. He's even teamed up with the likes of Russ Whitney - a con man selling get rich quick real estate seminars to the unwitting.

How you can be bothered by selling fast food but have no problem putting money into Kiyosaki's pocket is a bit befuddling.

[TheFinalEpic]

If you don't believe in your product, you cannot sell it to the best of your ability. It is like if you went out gaming while not believing in yourself, prospects can just smell it on you, and you will fail miserably.

Have you even read the book? You would understand the mentality I am talking about, and the lessons he teaches are in line with all other books that will teach you to get your money to work for you in stead of vice-versa.

Making your money work for you is the basis of wealth.

[SlickyBoy]

Yes I have read it; fortunately it was a borrowed copy. But Rich Dad Poor Dad was still a waste of time I will never get back. Kiyosaki makes your money work for him every time you buy one of his books.

"Making your money work for you" is not the basis of wealth since it requires money to do just that. Otherwise why not quit the job and live off the interest and investments? Anyone who can already do that doesn't need Kiyosaki to point out this pearl of wisdom. Kiyosaki doesn't actually teach anything, but he's obviously a compelling politician for some.

[TheFinalEpic]

Then I suggest you read the other book that was suggested by Zelscorpion.

Because it states the same principles.

[BasketBounce]

I am reading Felix Dennis' book. He recommends getting start up money from people he refers to as "fishes".

How does one identify "fishes" and get money from them? Seems like all you gotta do is make friends with generous people and ask them for money. Fishes are people that give you money without asking for any ownership of the company in return.

Like literally just go up to people and just ask for bills lol. Anyone got experience with this?

[bacan]

That fishes idea sounds completely retarded.

[Ensam]

Actually the fishes idea isn't so crazy but I think it depends a lot on our personality and I certainly don't think of them as fishes or suckers and find that aspect of the idea repugnant.

I've dabbled in a few start up concepts and was surprised at how many friends and family members came out of the woodwork and offered no strings attached money to get things moving. Nothing more than a few grand but enough to cover basic capital expenditures and allow me to explore feasibility without maxing out my credit cards.

I think what they responded to was my genuine passion for the ideas I was pursuing. I never asked for money and was reluctant to take it - which seemed to make them more willing to give it. Likewise if I knew someone who was working on something they really believed in and I could help them out I'd be happy to do it without asking them for anything in return.

[TheFinalEpic]

Getting seed capital is not incredibly difficult, especially if offering a modest interest rate for the money, as I have done previously. I agree with Ensam that the best places to start looking are family and friends, but there are people that are content with making a little interest on a loan as well (if the initial asking is unsuccessful).

[BasketBounce]

What I'm hearing is that friends and family will give you money if you ask.

But will they continue to give you money after you fail time and time again? Or once you go ghost because you're working so hard on your project? What happens then? What if you can't pay back the loan + interest that you initially agreed to because you're so broke that you can't hardly afford rent + food?

Then again, I might just be assuming the worst. So you don't pay back the loan immediately...what's the worst that could happen? The person hunt you down and kill you or something? Doubtful, they'll probably be too embarrassed or feel sorry for you, lol. I really am starting catch myself when the fear starts creeping in.

That being said, "fishes" is just a term. Have you read the book? He uses fishes in contrast to sharks and dolphins. Fishes conveys a sense of goodwill and togetherness and essentially harmlessness. Venture capitalists and bankers that give out loans in return for ownership of your company are referred to as dolphins and sharks respectfully because they ultimately end up tearing you down to keep you afloat. Fish are friends, dolphins and sharks aren't.