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Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?
#1

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

I see net neutrality bandied around as a wholly good thing, usually by left leaning people and justified with pseudo-libertarian talking points.

After digging a little what strikes me about this law is that it alleges big bad corporations will use their power to silence dissent and become tyrants more or less.

But the proposed solution is to give the government regulatory powers instead, to enforce a top down egalitarian regime on the web. Probably the FCC.

Now after the IRS scandal, media blackout, obamacare site that did not work for a month, and the GamerGate censorship on twitter by wannabe political activists how could this possibly not be running to lions for safety?

I have brought up these issues of mine with NN's usual proponents and it gets me stony stares and accusations of being paranoid. So I decided to ask here since I would characterize this site as honest but not really an echo chamber for any issue aside from maybe feminism (but probably not even that).

Is my analysis correct, or am I missing something?
[Image: attachment.jpg22791]   
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#2

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Any links? I definitely think that the FCC regulating the internet would be a bad thing.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
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#3

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Sure thing, this is about netflix and comcast which NN advocates say is proof that their fears are justified
http://www.cnet.com/news/comcast-vs-netf...eutrality/

And this is regarding the FCC's role in reclassifying the internet
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?a...id=2340818

This was what started it all, linked to me on facebook a few days ago
http://shittywebcomics.tumblr.com/post/1...e-a-letter
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#4

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

OP,
Machinia did a great explanation:
http://youtu.be/S-EwVZiQwVc

Net Neutrality is the current standard. Obama is suggesting it continues indefinitely.

Tornado
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#5

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Quote: (11-11-2014 08:12 PM)TornadoByProxy Wrote:  

OP,
Machinia did a great explanation:
http://youtu.be/S-EwVZiQwVc

Net Neutrality is the current standard. Obama is suggesting it continues indefinitely.

Tornado
Yes, by enforcing equality upon the ISPs. If the standard is current, then why pass the law. American's should be more skeptical of their government. Especially recently.
Simply describing the law does not refute my concerns since my concerns regard abuse of the law being probable.
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#6

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

I'm not sure, but I'm glad gas and electric are neutral. Telephone service is neutral also isn't it. TV too? You pay for what you use. Imagine if our gas and electric came in so weak we could barely see in the dark or it would take an hour to cook scrambled eggs.
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#7

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Net neutrality would mean that companies like Netflix and Google (youtube) don't have to pay extra so their services aren't neutered in comparison to an ISP's related product. Say Comcast and it's VOD cable system.

This is something that should be forced on ISPS. When I pay money to get 5mbps, I should be getting that with Netflix and Netflix shouldn't have to be forced to pay extra for access to advertised service that I have already. It's a cheap way to double dip for extra cash.

Although, I don't trust our government anymore. Who knows what BS will be stuck into the law.
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#8

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

None of these are addressing the FCC concerns, they just recount what the law says it will do.
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#9

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Quote: (11-11-2014 08:49 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

Net neutrality would mean that companies like Netflix and Google (youtube) don't have to pay extra so their services aren't neutered in comparison to an ISP's related product. Say Comcast and it's VOD cable system.

This is something that should be forced on ISPS. When I pay money to get 5mbps, I should be getting that with Netflix and Netflix shouldn't have to be forced to pay extra for access to advertised service that I have already. It's a cheap way to double dip for extra cash.

Although, I don't trust our government anymore. Who knows what BS will be stuck into the law.

It's also an issue in Canada. The ISPs here routinely throttle speeds for YouTube browsing and Netflix (funny enough now the two biggest telecom companies are launching their own version of Netflix for the same price, I bet that will stream extremely smoothly). But as you said trusting the government to fix this issue means that they will sneak some more BS into those laws.
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#10

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Utility companies tend to become monopolies. That's a good thing - a true free market for services that require running pipe or cable to people's homes gets out of hand really quick:
[Image: xvcknezbz7ir9lhbbicu.jpg].

The downside is of course once there's only one company running wires they tend to try and take advantage of the situation. That's why we need laws like net neutrality. Clearly the government goes too far sometimes but to pretend that a free market approach is always better is naive.
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#11

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Quote: (11-11-2014 09:37 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

Utility companies tend to become monopolies. That's a good thing - a true free market for services that require running pipe or cable to people's homes gets out of hand really quick:
[Image: xvcknezbz7ir9lhbbicu.jpg].

The downside is of course once there's only one company running wires they tend to try and take advantage of the situation. That's why we need laws like net neutrality. Clearly the government goes too far sometimes but to pretend that a free market approach is always better is naive.

This is true, but is increasingly not becoming the case as technology is improving. And, in America, many telecommunication companies only became monopolies at the behest of the gov because they wanted to wire up the country ASAP.
So this is sort of a broken window situation.
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#12

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Quote: (11-11-2014 09:18 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

Quote: (11-11-2014 08:49 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

Net neutrality would mean that companies like Netflix and Google (youtube) don't have to pay extra so their services aren't neutered in comparison to an ISP's related product. Say Comcast and it's VOD cable system.

This is something that should be forced on ISPS. When I pay money to get 5mbps, I should be getting that with Netflix and Netflix shouldn't have to be forced to pay extra for access to advertised service that I have already. It's a cheap way to double dip for extra cash.

Although, I don't trust our government anymore. Who knows what BS will be stuck into the law.

It's also an issue in Canada. The ISPs here routinely throttle speeds for YouTube browsing and Netflix (funny enough now the two biggest telecom companies are launching their own version of Netflix for the same price, I bet that will stream extremely smoothly). But as you said trusting the government to fix this issue means that they will sneak some more BS into those laws.

I did in fact post something about how the controversy over Netflix is actually a red herring, it may not be applicable for Canada but it may.
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#13

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Stefan Molyneux did an episode on it a while back, and it was the first time I actually questioned it (since all I heard about net neutrality before was that it's obviously a good thing). Still don't know what the right answer is though.




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#14

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Quote: (11-11-2014 08:07 PM)dholland662 Wrote:  

This was what started it all, linked to me on facebook a few days ago
http://shittywebcomics.tumblr.com/post/1...e-a-letter

The fight to keep net neutrality as it is, has been raging on for over a year, or more since the end of pipa/sopa.


Here are some vids explaining what's been going on, as always please do YOU OWN research don't believe me OR the OP about if you should support or oppose what's going on.








[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=fpbOEoRrHyU[/video]











[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=fpbOEoRrHyU[/video]

In my opinion, this is magnitudes worse than Sopa/Pipa in the damage this can do to the internet, and You bet the big companies are using ANY MEANS NECESSARY to try and push this through and end net neutrality. The outcome of this battle will have HUGE impacts for most of us here at RvF as Most of us use the internet to build location independent jobs/businesses and cash flow.

Please, everyone, do your own research though.

Isaiah 4:1
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#15

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?





Isaiah 4:1
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#16

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Quote: (11-11-2014 10:18 PM)CJ_W Wrote:  

Quote: (11-11-2014 08:07 PM)dholland662 Wrote:  

This was what started it all, linked to me on facebook a few days ago
http://shittywebcomics.tumblr.com/post/1...e-a-letter



Please, everyone, do your own research though.

I actually did do my own research as I indicated. I took these concerns to proponents and they did what many people here are doing: simply repeat what the law states it will do without any regard for the problem I have indicated.

Because, correct me if I am wrong, NN exists to keep the internet as it is today by giving the FCC power (what Obama said he wants) over the ISPs.
So I really fail to see why we need the law when nothing has gone wrong yet AND the government is hilariously incompetent at best and very corrupt at worst (IRS scandal for instance).

So as I see it, again correct me if I am wrong, we are asking for a law to simply preserve the status quo at the risk of government power over the best arena for free speech after a scandal where they cracked down on speech they did not like.

More to my research that this but everything else is not particularly relevant to this issue.
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#17

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Quote: (11-11-2014 10:02 PM)dholland662 Wrote:  

I did in fact post something about how the controversy over Netflix is actually a red herring, it may not be applicable for Canada but it may.

In Canada there is a long and well-documented history of ISPs throttling download speeds for torrents and also throttling YouTube and Netflix. When Netflix came to Canada the very next day (I kid you not) ISPs raised the prices for internet packages and decreased bandwidth usages on all packages.

The problem with USA and Canada is that the cable companies are also ISPs and that's not good for the public. Cable companies want you to keep paying those high monthly cable fees but the public is moving towards more online streaming, programming and Netflix is a big part of that. I have no doubt that all these cable companies do try to fuck over Netflix. In an ideal world the cable companies should not be the ISPs, especially in 2014. I am sure moving forward the cable companies will make internet packages more expensive. It's in their best interests to throttle services like Netflix.
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#18

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Quote: (11-11-2014 11:44 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

Quote: (11-11-2014 10:02 PM)dholland662 Wrote:  

I did in fact post something about how the controversy over Netflix is actually a red herring, it may not be applicable for Canada but it may.

In Canada there is a long and well-documented history of ISPs throttling download speeds for torrents and also throttling YouTube and Netflix. When Netflix came to Canada the very next day (I kid you not) ISPs raised the prices for internet packages and decreased bandwidth usages on all packages.

The problem with USA and Canada is that the cable companies are also ISPs and that's not good for the public. Cable companies want you to keep paying those high monthly cable fees but the public is moving towards more online streaming, programming and Netflix is a big part of that. I have no doubt that all these cable companies do try to fuck over Netflix. In an ideal world the cable companies should not be the ISPs, especially in 2014. I am sure moving forward the cable companies will make internet packages more expensive. It's in their best interests to throttle services like Netflix.
I see. How did these cable companies gain this power? Because in the US history, our telecommunications companies benefit a lot from the government intervening.
Which is a big part of why I am skeptical that NN would do what is said it would do since gov and the ISPs are in bed already.
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#19

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

I hope this passes.

Netflix is already having to pay ISPs and I think YouTube started doing so too. This means higher prices (Netflix raises their prices and we see more YouTube ads) for something we already paid for. Think of it as government double taxation (taxing us on income and on stuff we buy) but instead of the gubbmint doing it, it's the ISPs. They would make us pay for internet access and make the companies pay so their speeds won't slow down.

The solution is very simple, have the ISPs upgrade their infrastructure. They claim it's expensive and costly but it's a lie. Hence why Google is trying to bring gigabit speeds to certain cities and other cities have done their own plans. That way people can have fast cheap internet, and Google wins as YouTube won't be slowed down. Nonetheless ISPs started lobbying to make it illegal for cities to come up with their own networks

In regards to the internet being a monopoly if considered an utility. Surprise!!! It's already a monopoly! You can only select one or two providers in most cities! It's mostly between TWC/Comcast and AT&T. FiOS is not available in most places.

I'm not sure how the IRS thing has to do with this. Don't mix two different subjects together.

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#20

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

It's pretty simple.

No net neutrality, RVF, ROK, and any other site that doesn't pay protection money to the ISPs will load like a 14 kbit dial-up. Big Media will load lightening fast.

The internet be like TV in the 1960s again - a few big networks dominating news and opinion.
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#21

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Im generally supportive of NN, but without a doubt question it due to the fact that by making it an utility grants the gubbermint a lot more oversight.
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#22

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

The government should stop regulating ISPs like utilities. The problem would go away.

I've got the dick so I make the rules.
-Project Pat
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#23

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Quote: (11-12-2014 05:33 AM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  

The government should stop regulating ISPs like utilities. The problem would go away.

The thing is, the government is not regulating ISPs like utilities.

Hence why companies have to pay ISPs so their content can avoid the "slow internet lane".

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#24

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

The FCC has done good things similar to this before. During the 700 MHz C Block spectrum auction (which Verizon ultimately won and uses for LTE) rules were put in allowing device portability and kept them from throttling users. Hence why the few unlimited plans left on Verizon go for $1500 on eBay.

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#25

Net Neutrality: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

Your concern shouldn't be people psychological manipulation.

Your concern should be people pointing guns at you telling you what to do.

If WalMart / McDonalds / Netflix / ISPs can point guns at you and tell you what to do, enforce net neutrality. Until then, let's not give the government one more way they can point guns at you and demand money or put you in jail.

“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.”
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