[la_mode]

The reality is, even guys who aren't using "online dating" in the traditional form, are probably still using it on some level whether it's via facebook or instagram.

Of course a guy wanting to bang a chick isn't really an accurate marker of her SMV - but in the US currently you have alpha guys competing for very average to even below average women. Orbiting is really at this all-time high and won't be slowing down anytime soon. Any remotely attractive woman could post a picture of a ham sandwich and get at least 20 "likes" on instagram or facebook.

I've come to the conclusion that most guys in the US just want a woman who is considered "pretty" and isn't fat, whether it's short or long term. A pretty, in-shape divorced 40 year old with 3 kids generates more interest than the average in-shape 23 year old with no kids. A lot of men are moving towards the trend of mini relationships and we'll see even more of this.

The rations online are simply an exaggeration of real life. An average, not fat woman can get up to 100 messages a day combining Tinder/POF/Okc plus her facebook messages & texts/kik/snapchat/whatsapp.

I've also noticed women are pickier online than they were just 2 or 3 year ago. Example, I've had women in what I call "Online dating cycle" - you know, the online dating veterans who always somehow end up back on there even with several options. Some who messaged me first a few years ago, then disappeared, won't always reply if I say hi to them now. Before orbiting became the epidemic it now is, it definitely was a bit easier.

I've also noticed from women I've dated that 6/7s oftentimes have more orbiters than 8/9s, because men think it's easier with these women and that there will be less hoops to jump through. The level of orbiting also results in high flake counts. Women will text you, want to meet, then all of a sudden, nothing. This can even happen with airtight game.

Orbiting is sort of like collecting "ego points" for women. It's reached a level where women might get so many messages/notifications she might not even see your message.

I've had women reply months later, and told me they just recently saw the message. I don't think it was like this a few years ago.

I know others will disagree, but I don't think at matters at this point if a woman has lots of tattoos, kids with different fathers, or is on food stamps.

The only thing going through most men's minds regardless of medium:

Is she pretty and not fat?

Everyone has always known this matters the most, but it's gotten to point where there's lots of competition for even attractive mid 40's women. What I'm getting at is, a woman's fertility/youth has been trumped by her simply being pretty.

[britchard]

For me, the greatest thing that could happen to online game would be to have a fatty filter where you could filter out all the women with a 25+ BMI. Women would want one for men too, but that should be around 28 BMI to allow for muscle.

[Biologist]

(11-03-2014 03:56 AM)britchard Wrote:  

For me, the greatest thing that could happen to online game would be to have a fatty filter where you could filter out all the women with a 25+ BMI. Women would want one for men too, but that should be around 28 BMI to allow for muscle.

This would never happen, because as soon as a woman sees that a certain dating site forces her to enter her BMI or weight, she'll simply just decide to not use it.

When there are no women on a dating site, there are no men. If there are no women or men on a dating site, there is no ad revenue coming in.

Dating sites cater to women because they are ultimately the limiting factor which determines how much money a dating site makes.

Consider OkCupid - for body type, the site only allows the user to choose from some vague descriptors ("athletic", "average", "a little extra"). They don't want women to feel like they're being "objectified".

However, for height, the site allows the user to narrow it down to the exact inch - there isn't an option to choose from vague descriptors such as "tall", "average" or "short". This is not surprising, because it is well-known that height is an extremely important factor in how a woman judges the attractiveness of a man.

[Phoenix]

Sites already have a fatty filter.

Skinny = anorexic
Athletic = average
Average = obese
'Full figured'/'a little extra' = morbidly obese
A few extra pounds/'big and beautiful' = blimp-woman

For more accurate filtering, follow this method:
Stage 1
A) Is there at least one unobstructed, front-on, unaltered, normal-lighting photo of her face?
B) Is there at least one photo showing her abdomen, or a bare upper arm, to signal she isn't fat?
C) Do her stated age and her photo age reasonably match?

If A, B & C apply: congratulations, you have found a woman who gets 100 messages per day.
Stage 2
Are you in the top 5% of male attractiveness, with a profile that convincingly demonstrates this?

If Yes - Send a copy-paste message with minor girl-specific tweaks, then hit CTRL-F4.
If No - Turn off your computer, go outside, and approach.

[CJ_W]

(11-03-2014 06:04 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

If A, B & C apply: congratulations, you have found a woman who gets 100 messages per day.
Stage 2
Are you in the top 5% of male attractiveness, with a profile that convincingly demonstrates this?

If Yes - Send a copy-paste message with minor girl-specific tweaks, then hit CTRL-F4.
If No - Turn off your computer, go outside, and approach.

Also if no - consider taking a trip to the Philipines, Eastern Europe or China( China if you're white), Germany/Australia(if you're black) once or twice a year

OR Option, C - work on getting a location independent income, and live in one of these places and drown yourself in pussy.

[rudebwoy]

A 43 year old mom of three kids "may" get more attention than a 23 year old simply because she is perceived as being easier.

The less men participate in online game the better it will be for all of us. I am no game master but I can meet girls outside with ease.

43 yr old women should be starving for attention, I mean how good do you think that pussy is!

I do have Facebook and I have some EE hotties on there, some of them get 200 likes for certain pics which insane.

The only time I will use a dating site, is if I am travelling.

[la_mode]

More men are online compared to a few years ago, meaning orbiting has reached levels this world has never seen.

In other parts of the world, it may very well be true that a woman will lose attention once she gets older.

In the US - it's not true as long as she is considered "pretty" and isn't fat.

[Foolsgo1d]

You might think it is classic orbiting behaviour but believe me, these guys are just not able to go from A to B on the 'Lets fuck' map.

No guy friends a woman he just met if she is attractive to him.

[RexImperator]

I mentioned this in another thread how I met a 43 y.o. cougar at a party and she told me about her online dating. Even if a woman's face is rough-looking, she can counteract that by upping her fitness level and keeping a good figure. This woman was banging 25 year olds on tinder.

[heavy]

Men are judged hierarchically (relative to other men)
Women are judged objectively (not relative to other women)

This doesn't just apply in the SMV. It applies to individual valuation. Men are judged by men and women judged by women the same way.

A 40 year old attractive single mom might still be a 6. Alternatively, an athletic 5'10" successful 30 year old accountant with a good social life is invisible compared to all the Facebook friends out there...unless he proves otherwise.

[Atlantic]

Of course these girls are getting spam messaged:

A lot of guys have no game, no approach skills and are average or below in the looks department. They have no idea on how to approach the dating market so what is their tactic?

Clubs are out or they get no results if they do go. No way they are going to step up to day game. Some decide online looks easy.

When they hit up online dating they make a poor profile and start spam approaching. They will aim for the perceived 'lower hanging fruits' where they think they will get the best results. Paradoxically these girls are the hardest to get results with because they get the most messages and are online for the ego trip. The guys just want whats easy but so does a lot of other guys so they flood the 6 and below market. Ya every girl has a 100+ messages but its the same fucking guys for every girl.

If you are going to hit up online I suggest top tier pics and profile. Its a visual market so you have to have way above average pics to start seeing results. This doesn't mean you have to be top tier looks but its all marketing so take good photos and present an image.
After that its a quick conversion to phone # and try set up the date.
Photos/profile skills > phone/text game > date game > escalation and isolation. If you have a gap in the chain you don't see results.

Online is the most competitive of dating strategies because a girls pussy floats on a much bigger market then is possible elsewhere. The upside is if you have a top 5% profile you will do very well.

It is what it is. i wouldn't focus on how many guys get poor results or fuck up the lower end of the market. It is possible to do well online with the right approach. Unfortunately 'that approach' needs to always be evolving quickly with new dating platforms.

[rudebwoy]

25 year old males shouldn't be banging 43 year old women, period.

Online game is for people who can't meet in normal situations, meaning shy or socially awkward people.

If you must do online game, I agree make sure you are part of the 5%. In other words your profile better look like that Bilzeran guy, even though I think he is lame. It does come across as try hard.

Funny women go online for a ego trip, for me it was bruising my ego.

[civpro]

I live in a difficult city for dating. This was widely concluded by 2010-2012, which is around the time I started gaming. But as bad as it was then, what's crazy is that it's gotten even worse. In 2011 getting a decent girl online or at night was quite doable as a guy less than an 8/10 in looks; now it's nothing short of a miracle. In 2014 despite being at the top of my game (approach skill, killer instinct, conversational ability) I've seen just about all of my prospects fizzle out. If you were to see my 2014 OkCupid results you would convulse violently. So I think OP is right - all these negative social forces that the manosphere has identified have only taken greater hold and show no sign of letting up.

[la_mode]

There's so many fat women in the US now. The amount of attention that an attractive woman in her 20's gets is truly amazing, but the amount of attention that an attractive late 30s or 40-something woman gets is well above that of the average 20s woman, and in some cases can even rival that of an attractive women in her 20s.

Only a certain amount of women at any given time can be in their 20s as well.

It's possible there just aren't enough of them for all the men in their 20's/30s and that is rarely given any consideration.

Men will expand their search a few decades if necessary just to mitigate any potential "lack of attraction".

[Suits]

Lousy thread title.

[la_mode]

(11-03-2014 03:56 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

25 year old males shouldn't be banging 43 year old women, period.

Online game is for people who can't meet in normal situations, meaning shy or socially awkward people.

If you must do online game, I agree make sure you are part of the 5%. In other words your profile better look like that Bilzeran guy, even though I think he is lame. It does come across as try hard.

Funny women go online for a ego trip, for me it was bruising my ego.

You bring up a good point, it can be seen as a massive DLV for men, but for women it's simply entertainment or a way to make the hours go by her in cubicle. Women online (even if not attractive) will not be stereotyped as odd or somehow lacking if they're online, it's just diversion to them. Men online are still generally still stereotyped.

This is changing with the geolocation apps which has made it mainstream, but men still have a considerable uphill battle online. Ratios are so bad that even the fat women have normal guys who will sarge them on occasion just by virtue of them being female.

It would literally take at least a B-list celebrity male with good looks to generate the same amount of attention that just the slightly above average female gets.

[scorpion]

I have written before about how the obesity epidemic is essentially destroying the "middle class" of women in the sexual marketplace. There are a lot fewer 6s, 7s and 8s than there used to be, and the ones that remain have become increasingly valuable due to their scarcity. There are millions of 3s and 4s walking around that should be 7s and 8s if they weren't 30-40 (or more) pounds overweight. Personally I don't blame guys for going after some hardbody MILF who's in the gym 6 days a week over a doughy 24 year old. Fat is really the only thing worse than age for a woman, which is why I simply cannot understand how so many women totally let themselves go. It's absolutely incomprehensible. The average overweight/obese woman could increase her dating/marriage options by a factor of ten simply by exercising 3-4 hours per week and not eating junk food. And yet millions of women cannot clear this hurdle. It would be like if men could somehow add 5 inches to their height, 30 lbs. of muscle mass and an extra six figures to their paycheck by expending a few hours of energy a week combined with just a bit of discipline. How many men would fail to take advantage of something like that? That's equivalent to what a woman can do by being in good shape these days, and yet it's still so rare. Unbelievable.

[Travesty]

Heh the whole moving for pussy prospects is just getting started.

Things will only get worse until we have a miracle fat loss/ hunger block pill or zero calorie food that tastes as addictive as McDonalds.

I think we are probably 15-20 years away from such a pill or food. I'd be astonished if we are fatter and cause even more medical expenses then. The pressure to "cure" obesity will become immense due to financial ramifications.

[Menace]

Really, it's the fat. When you're in a country with thin women, you begin to realize that the main issue in America is not that it has more ugly women, but that it has more fat women. When everyone is thin, there is more for everyone to go around. When huge portion of the 6-7 range sweet spot is overweight, the demand is still the same, but the supply is dramatically less. Even on-line in Japan, where the girls are not the top, you can be 90% sure she is going to be thin. It's not even an issue. In US you have SO MUCH fat it's just amazing.

However, I think a lot of obesity is related to 1) huge portion sizes (both at home and in restaurants) and 2) unhealthy eating choices. Also, there is no shaming anymore in America among the lower classes. Our whole system is designed to produce huge amounts of bad "food" through a partnership of government and the food industry. How about we tax anything with more than 5 ingredients in it?

[ddjembe mutombo]

(11-03-2014 03:34 AM)la_mode Wrote:  

I've also noticed women are pickier online than they were just 2 or 3 year ago. Example, I've had women in what I call "Online dating cycle" - you know, the online dating veterans who always somehow end up back on there even with several options. Some who messaged me first a few years ago, then disappeared, won't always reply if I say hi to them now. Before orbiting became the epidemic it now is, it definitely was a bit easier.

This is very true. On "matching" sites such as OKCupid and Match, you will see some of the same faces that you saw a couple years ago. I gave OKCupid a whirl in early 2011. A season later, I deactivated it for two years due to the amount of time it took out of my week. I booted it back up two years later and found many similar faces that were still active users.

Off topic: During my second stint, I got with a girl that was the sister of a girl I got with on my first stint. Kind of weird, but kind of awesome.

Anyway, if you move a bit of sluts from the PM to text message then you will notice the famous disappearing act. Girls will bail on dates then go silent for months. Then one day they will just text you, "Hey! How have u been "... followed by, "Things just got super crazy.."

[CaptainCrazy]

Don't worry.

No one can outsmart the nature.

Fat and sick will die out.

Just eject to the place where you don't have to participate in this insanity.

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

(11-03-2014 02:52 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

I mentioned this in another thread how I met a 43 y.o. cougar at a party and she told me about her online dating. Even if a woman's face is rough-looking, she can counteract that by upping her fitness level and keeping a good figure. This woman was banging 25 year olds on tinder.

Logged on OKC this morning to answer piled up emails

Saw a 38 year old chick with a headline reading "No guys OVER 40 please!!!"

[DrewP]

I'm somewhat of a veteran at online dating. It suits me because my "checklist qualities" (tall, in-shape, making good $$, articulate, white--though it's unfortunate that seems to matter so much) are stronger than my game at this point.

The new trend I'm noticing is chicks using the "OKCupid app" rather than their PC. This has led to two developments:

1. If you don't get a response within an hour or two, you're very unlikely to get one at all.
2. No matter how clever or witty your message and profile are, the girl's response is almost always some totally un-thought out 5 word burp that takes the conversation nowhere.

This speaks to the idea that girls are doing online dating not because they're serious about meeting decent guys, but to obtain a steady stream of attention so that those dopamine receptors never take a rest. As a girl, you seriously have to be a moron to believe that responding to guys' messages with things like "lol yep" and making them feel like dancing monkeys performing for your entertainment as you sit back and judge their worthiness will ever build a worthwhile connection. That's not what it's about. For girls, it's about being able to open up their smartphones any time of day to a stream of hapless betas competing to impress them, and then complaining how all those guys suck and it's so hard to find a decent guy, all while having put zero effort into the process themselves. Why chicks find this so pleasurable escapes me.

As a man using online dating, the only thing you can do is make sure you're the absolute best of the bunch so you have a shot at the tiny number of decent girls who are actually serious about meeting someone. It can be done, but it's one of the most frustrating processes you'll ever know.

[la_mode]

Women don't realize how easy it is to keep up their SMV. Literally all they have to do is not be fat (opposed to being in shape). For an even slight above-average looking woman (given she's not fat), she'll have a revolving door of suitors decades younger than her as it's been established.

Men in the US are so desperate for a woman who isn't fat and is considered "pretty" that a woman's age hardly matters the way it used to or biologically should.

[bojangles]

I have no online game skills, I leave that to MattC whos a pro. I just use it to troll but I've noticed the phenomena of the same women being on there. I'll be on in March see some girls and then 6 months later after a euro jaunt, I'll pull it up and see the same tarts on there.