[TravellingSoldier]

For all of the aspiring entrepreneurs and business ballers of the RvF playground - what would you say has been the most draining part of your start-up adventure? and how have you improved upon your practices and strategies? I'm currently in the final stages of creating my own online business and have had a lot of trouble with:

Legality:

All the paperwork involved to create a corporation, business number, payroll program account, business bank account etc. including all the research and reading required to choose which kind of registrations you desire (sole-proprietorship, corp) down to the stock options. This has mainly just been time consuming and I may outsource the paperwork for $50 - 100 if I complete the process again.

Marketing:

There are countless marketing strategies, facebook advertising, reddit advertising, paid-per-click, google adwords... My favourite has been guerilla marketing but perhaps because I'm secretly a little evil on the inside and want to manipulate people into supporting me without knowing it. I'm currently in the process of creating an animated video (paying approx. $1000 through elance) and hope my idea will drive substantial traffic to my site once it kicks off. I've also been thinking of paying someone to plaster custom stickers (with a really cool idea, not just a brand name) all around the city to garner some interest.

Staff:

I have a friend who's running an online business that does around 20K a month, he uses a Filipino virtual assistant to handle the paperwork and customer service duties for around $500 a month and a sales/management guy for around $3000 a month. I've been speaking to him for a lot of information but I was just wondering if anyone here also has any experience with finding and hiring staff.

I'm also wondering if anyone has any ideas for lightening the work load - for example I've found a third party payroll application to make the payroll processing quicker and more organized. My friend showed me where he found his Filipino worker for a one time fee of $500 or something.

Some resources I've found or been shown:

http://www.virtualstafffinder.com/
http://www.paymentevolution.com/
http://www.locationrebel.com/
http://www.seanogle.com/entrepreneurship...tial-tools
http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/225485

Hopefully I can get some advice as its my first business but I'm definitely learning a lot and its exciting getting started. Although it has costed me a bit ($600 for the website, $1000 for the promo vid, $400 for business registrations and $100 for an infographic) I'm hoping to earn that back within the second or third month of business. It's a new spin on a tried-and-true industry with high demand and a low amount of real dominating competitors in my mind. There is also a great time to cost value ratio that I hope I can take advantage of.

RVF brothers, share with us your trials and tribulations.

[Nemencine]

Hey there,

Speaking of pain, sweat and sorrow... I will just quote myself and the inimitable YoungMobileGlobal.....

(01-07-2014 10:30 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

OP, you are almost guaranteed to fail at this entrepreneurial option. To be safe, let's say that you have an 85% chance of failure. That is generous, considering you have zero experience.

You will burn through at least $10,000 USD of your own cash traveling and experimenting with your ideas that will likely crash and fail.

The reality is you are almost certainly going to fail and your expectations should be that you will almost certainly fail. 90%+ chance of this.

I will tell you up front that shooting for the stars means an OVER 75% chance of living in a $15/night Bangkok/Shenzhen/whatever apartment. You should understand that up front. You will suffer. This is not glamorous and anyone who tells you that entrepreneurship is glamorous is a liar.

You will go through moments that make you question whether or not you are bipolar. You will do joint ventures with people who seem great at the outset and turn out to be scumbags, thieves, liars, and idiots. You will vacillate dramatically between moments of pure euphoria and suicidal depression on a weekly basis.

IMO, calculating the EV of the entrepreneurial option is WORSE than nothing. That is because pulling numbers out of thin air that have no basis in reality and judging your own chances of success based on the success (or lackthereof) of some random person on an internet forum (who may be lying) is a dangerous foundation upon which to launch your own venture.

[all due respect to Tigre - I understand why he made this suggestion and I think it's logical but not necessarily the right way to advise someone in this context]

You should assume that you will crash and burn. You should assume that you will go through hell and that you will be fucked and double crossed at every turn. You should assume that you are going to burn through your cash.

Despite that, it will still be worth it, because there is only one way to learn how to be an entrepreneur, and that is by failing constantly and incrementally improving until your luck changes.

You are going to have to look at this with the grim reality that you may lose a year of your life and all of your money pursuing something that will almost certainly fail. You have to be able to look at this possibility and accept that with no regrets.

There are a million factors that can make you fail or succeed. Trying to predict these things in advance based on a bunch of random assumptions is mental masturbation at best.

I understand why all of these guys are playing devil's advocate against the entrepreneurial option. The chances of failure are very high and they are trying to give you advice that will set you up with what they view as a more stable future. In a lot of ways, they are correct. In the grand scheme of things, I think it is far less stable and secure to have a day job.

Frankly, I don't feel like continuing to defend the entrepreneurial route anymore. The fact of the matter is that if you need someone to convince you to become an entrepreneur, you are probably not cut out for it in the first place.

Assume that the absolute worst case WILL occur.

If you can accept losing every dollar you have, losing a year or two of your life, and then having to start from scratch, then you are probably cut out to be an entrepreneur. You have to assume that the absolute worst case scenario will happen and do it anyway. It's impossible to predict if you have a 65% chance of failure of 95% chance of failure.

If you can't accept that, then go get a day job.

-

(01-07-2014 10:55 PM)Nemencine Wrote:  

^^^
That is basically my experience too. I have failed more times than i can remember... there are people i used to trust and respect deeply, then greed and laziness show an ugly side of them...the war stories are endless.

But... you keep on marching.

There is just a beast within that keeps you going. There are those few moments that i felt that i cannot go on anymore... you are absolutely drained, both physically and emotionally... and yet, then within a couple of hours i am back at it again... (the maximum was 3 weeks... when i just gave up for 3 weeks...) only to come back for more punishment.

(that is just my case of trying to build my sidebusiness while still working a day job.)

It is like a curse.. a fire... it burns in your veins... leaving only the purity of singular purpose. my friends and family say i am insane(about my business).

I honestly believe that you either have it or you dont. the raw instinct cannot be taught.

Good post, YMG.




regards,

Nemencine

^^ that was in the 1st week of January of this year, 2014.....

But now?.....

I generate slightly more than $15k per month.. And i just recently gone full time on it... on track to go beyond 20K/month by February/March 2015. Did some old update on the business here: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-40502-...#pid842188

There are other threads related to the business here:
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-37732-...#pid769464
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-39713.html
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-39875.html
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-40969.html
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-40502.html

The hardest part? Finding hardworking employees. Finding good talent is critical.

Lesson? Never, never, never, never, never, never give up!! Never!

regards,

Nemencine

[All or Nothing]

(10-29-2014 11:44 PM)TravellingSoldier Wrote:  

For all of the aspiring entrepreneurs and business ballers of the RvF playground - what would you say has been the most draining part of your start-up adventure? and how have you improved upon your practices and strategies? I'm currently in the final stages of creating my own online business and have had a lot of trouble with:

I am more focused on creating the website right now. Learning how to code in all of the different languages is something that is fun and fascinates me. Also, jumping off the deep end kind of scares me, so admittedly it is a slight form of procrastination.

Here are my current plans:

Legality:

Pay legalzoom to set up an LLC in my state. Generally 300-500$'s.

Marketing:

Tell everyone I know. Use facebook, twitter, instagram, go onto forums related to the business, set up affiliate marketing programs with bloggers, youtube... and whatever else I can find.

Staff:

Any friend or person I meet who seems like a decent human being and is willing to take a risk and help me.

Most importantly don't overcomplicate or overthink things, just fucking do it. If you mess up, who cares. All you did was learn a way that did not work.

[TravellingSoldier]

[quote] (10-30-2014 12:30 AM)Nemencine Wrote:  

Hey there,

Speaking of pain, sweat and sorrow... I will just quote myself and the inimitable YoungMobileGlobal.....

[quote='youngmobileglobal' pid='623281' dateline='1389151810']
OP, you are almost guaranteed to fail at this entrepreneurial option. To be safe, let's say that you have an 85% chance of failure. That is generous, considering you have zero experience.

------------------------------

The hardest part? Finding hardworking employees. Finding good talent is critical.

Lesson? Never, never, never, never, never, never give up!! Never!

regards,

Nemencine[/quote]

I understand the risks involved but they don't have any contributing factor toward my determination and desire to take action. Entrepreneurship is the only option for me because I will never work for anyone else in my life again. If I'm not busting my ass for my own business there is no reason to bust my ass at all.

I really enjoy reading stuff like that though because it keeps you focused, humble and understanding just how volatile and unreliable your perceptions for success may be. I promise you I will never give up Nemecine.

I think I will be choosing Payment Evolution for the payroll processing and Evernote in place of excel spreadsheets and taking notes. I'll be using Evernote to archive all my employee information such as SIN, E-mail, Phone # and perhaps things like hourly work schedule and dollar per hour wages.

Evernote: http://www.evernote.com

I just want to return to what you said, about having a very low chance of succeeding...

"If something is important enough you should try even if the probable outcome is failure." - Elon Musk

[TravellingSoldier]

(10-30-2014 01:14 AM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

If you mess up, who cares. All you did was learn a way that did not work.

Great words to live by. Mistakes are the greatest gift humanity ever received

[worldwidetraveler]

Do you guys have a product built and ready to sell?

[TravellingSoldier]

I first had this idea about 3 weeks ago and since then I've had a mock up website designed (I designed it, including the logo) and have employed a web developer through Odesk, I have paid for a promotional video to be created as part of a guerilla marketing campaign (E-lance) and I have an artist creating an infographic which will also be in HTLM5 which means I will have the ability to use it on my About Us page of the site.

Nothing is completed yet but I think I have a lot of good ideas and I'm definitely heading into a market that hasn't had any emerging competition or a real face-lift in a while. Not reinventing the wheel just using it differently. Definitely feel good and I'm surrounded by really successful people right now and they like the idea so I will keep you all updated. I'm 18 and this is my first company.

[worldwidetraveler]

(10-30-2014 10:18 AM)TravellingSoldier Wrote:  

I first had this idea about 3 weeks ago and since then I've had a mock up website designed (I designed it, including the logo) and have employed a web developer through Odesk, I have paid for a promotional video to be created as part of a guerilla marketing campaign (E-lance) and I have an artist creating an infographic which will also be in HTLM5 which means I will have the ability to use it on my About Us page of the site.

Nothing is completed yet but I think I have a lot of good ideas and I'm definitely heading into a market that hasn't had any emerging competition or a real face-lift in a while. Not reinventing the wheel just using it differently. Definitely feel good and I'm surrounded by really successful people right now and they like the idea so I will keep you all updated. I'm 18 and this is my first company.

If that is the case, I would suggest not worrying about payroll processing and hiring people until you get something to market and it's selling.

I would also suggest taking care of everything yourself, when starting out, so you get an idea how things work and then you can build up systems that can be handed off to employees.

You should have a strong grasp on things like customer support before you even think about hiring someone else.

Get your product done, make money and then hire an attorney to take care of structuring your business once you know it will be profitable.

All this stuff listed will just take your focus away from what is important.

[Cattle Rustler]

Pay an employee well, give them a reason to stay and you'll get the cream of the crop.

[TravellingSoldier]

(10-30-2014 10:31 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-30-2014 10:18 AM)TravellingSoldier Wrote:  

I first had this idea about 3 weeks ago and since then I've had a mock up website designed (I designed it, including the logo) and have employed a web developer through Odesk, I have paid for a promotional video to be created as part of a guerilla marketing campaign (E-lance) and I have an artist creating an infographic which will also be in HTLM5 which means I will have the ability to use it on my About Us page of the site.

Nothing is completed yet but I think I have a lot of good ideas and I'm definitely heading into a market that hasn't had any emerging competition or a real face-lift in a while. Not reinventing the wheel just using it differently. Definitely feel good and I'm surrounded by really successful people right now and they like the idea so I will keep you all updated. I'm 18 and this is my first company.

If that is the case, I would suggest not worrying about payroll processing and hiring people until you get something to market and it's selling.

I would also suggest taking care of everything yourself, when starting out, so you get an idea how things work and then you can build up systems that can be handed off to employees.

You should have a strong grasp on things like customer support before you even think about hiring someone else.

Get your product done, make money and then hire an attorney to take care of structuring your business once you know it will be profitable.

All this stuff listed will just take your focus away from what is important.

I'm not selling a product. Everything I am asking about is relevant and essential for my business model. It's a service but I can't say any more it will probably be revealed what I'm doing.

I do agree with you 100% though. I need to do the work starting off so when I need to hire people I know the business myself inside and out. That's good advice, thanks for your reply.

[Duke Castile]

I have a friend that owns a virtual staff company in the Phils. I've studied the company model and see how carefully they vet their employees.

It's much cheaper than hiring in the Western world and while it used to be something only fortune 500 companies would do by hiring fleets of people you can now just hire on or two people to work for you company. Great move in my opinion.

Considering my relationship with him I'm sure I could get you a lower than normal rate if it interests you.

[Bad Hussar]

As long as the potential payoff is big enough a high risk of failure isn't really a big deal. The problem scenarios are where you have a high risk (or cost) and only a relatively small potential payoff. Although it is somewhat off-topic I'd say that many unpaid "internships" in the current business environment fall into this category. The companies offering them are not high profile enough to say that a job with them is a big payoff, the likleihood of a permanent job is very small, and the cost to the intern of not making anything for months is quite high.

Other than looking at the payoff you have to do everything you can to minimise costs and financial risks. It's the way I look at business proposals. What is the maximum I can lose, and how much do I have to risk to see if x or y product will be a success. I've pretty much stopped watching Dragons Den (Shark Tank in US) because the Dragon's insistence on always hearing multi-year sales and profit projections for a product that hasn't even been offered to the market yet just strikes me as ludicrous. The numbers bear no relationship to reality. To me a better way of looking at it is to acknowledge that I really don't know whether, and how much, a new product will sell. Not only that I don't know, but that I can't know until I actually try to sell it. So the cost of getting to market, and for initial inventory, is what most interests me. Sales projections pulled out of peoples asses are just a waste of time.

[TravellingSoldier]

(10-30-2014 11:09 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

I have a friend that owns a virtual staff company in the Phils. I've studied the company model and see how carefully they vet their employees.

It's much cheaper than hiring in the Western world and while it used to be something only fortune 500 companies would do by hiring fleets of people you can now just hire on or two people to work for you company. Great move in my opinion.

Considering my relationship with him I'm sure I could get you a lower than normal rate if it interests you.

I will most definitely be taking you up on that offer!! Thanks Fisto. Although, it may not be for a few months.

[ColSpanker]

In all the years of trying to keep my start-up functioning, I can only come to one reason I haven't hit the auto-destruct button: the fear of having everything I've done vanish down the economic bowl. I went into this in 2006 sure I would be running a real player in my industry in the first year. Short story: it never happened. Now I have a product which may finally put the company on the map, but who really knows the future?
Seriously, you have to face the possibility of failure. We only hear about the successes, not the all the ones who had to lock the doors a and see their car towed off by the repo-man.
why do I keep soldiering on? Because I can't bear going back to the back bench or cubicle. I hated all the years I was confined to a small work area and told to keep knocking out formulas while the entire industry sank into the mud. NFW will I ever go back to that.