[Duke Castile]

I was walking out of Haze nightclub in Aria (This is in Las Vegas) and I ran into an upper level guy who works for Angel Management Group.

We started speaking and he handed me his card. I put it into my pocket and put the idea on the backburner because I've just got a lot going on and at that time (6 weeks ago?) I was still focused on doing the MMA thing which would 100% be in conflict with the lifestyle of a host (and a lot less fun).

Since then I've been on a bender, going out 3,4,5 times per week, having a blast. Getting so many numbers that I forget to call girls and have even forgotten that I made plans with a few of them. In short, I am really enjoying this life. I've got good connections with the enough doormen and hosts already to get the occasional comped table and bottle and get past these ridiculous lines (if I had to wait I just wouldn't even bother going out, which would probably be good for my mma aspirations)

Now I'm at a point where I'm tired of spending money, and still making peanuts in the fight world. I'm 32 and while I want to continue my training to stay fit and sharp. Being a successful fighter just doesn't seem as important to me as it once did.

On the other hand, I have the feeling that if I walk away from it now then that's gonna be all she wrote.

These hosts do really well but work a lot of hours. As far as calculating the value of the fringe benefits, I'd say you almost have to double the cash you make and these guys are pulling about 500 to 1k per night. Your nights off you are REQUIRED to go to other clubs and drink comped bottles at comped tables. Which means you are REQUIRED to have hot ass help you.

[thegmanifesto]

Fisto,

I say rush it if it is what you want.

Personally, I have never liked "service" jobs (I would rather be the guy taken care of instead of vice versa) but that is a personal decision.

You certainly can do a lot worse than VIP Host in Las Vegas. I know those guys killed it during the "up economy" and I am sure a bright, hustler like yourself could still do extremely well.

I would be careful to stay away from drugs and all the beautiful evil that night time brings, but you probably knew that already.

It kind of does put the dagger through the whole MMA thing though. Then again, you said, "Being a successful fighter just doesn't seem as important to me as it once did". It seems like your mind is already made up. Hell, I am sure (guessing here) that you probably wanted to use MMA as a springboard to something else in life. This may be that springboard.

Why don't you give it a shot and see if you like it?

Keep at it, make it happen, "G Manifesto" it, and maybe one day you will be the guy handing the card to the cat, saying:

"Look kid, I like your style, why don't you come work for me."

Not a bad spot to be, if you ask your humble author.

[kimleebj]

(04-07-2011 03:18 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

I'm tired of ... making peanuts in the fight world.
I've been on a bender, going out 3,4,5 times per week, having a blast.

I really respect you and will offer some tough love because you can take it. Athletics is a young man's game. You made a concious lifestyle decision to grab the opportunities. You will probably never regret the experience.

You get plenty of women outside your job. It will be a lot less fun working at clubs 5-7 nights per week. So let's separate your social needs from your career plan.

Quote:

I .... ran into an upper level guy ... .
These hosts do really well but work a lot of hours.

This triggered my bullshit alarm. You only get paid well if a job requires great skills (brain surgeon), if it really sucks (garbage man), or if it is hard to get (skycap, cushy union job, etc.).

You are juiced into a host job because people respect you as a cool guy with social and athletic skills. But that's about it. In the long run they will favor their brothers-in-law and closer friends. It looks like an easy, low skill job. So I don't believe for a second that you can realistically make much money. Otherwise you need to explain why everybody isn't applying, and why you are so special to get and keep the job.

What skills and connections would you acquire in this career? What is the career path? What are the 50- and 60-year old hosts doing? How does this capitalize on your skills and interests?

You could exploit your athletic experience as a coach or educator. You could make a lot of money in sunny Baghdad or Kabul. Your physical presence would be valuable as a pit trader. Your social skills and work ethic would help in sales. It's time to accumulate some long-run human capital.

[Brian]

"You only get paid well if a job requires great skills (brain surgeon), if it really sucks (garbage man), or if it is hard to get (skycap, cushy union job, etc.)."

Thats not true at all. Any idiot can make money if he is good at what he does and gets paid via performance or owns the company. There are realtors who are dumb as dirt but have the connections to the right people and sell million dollar homes and get 3% a pop. Heck, you dont have to be that bright to open a lot of retail businesses like car dealers, deli's, etc and if you start banging out multiple locations you can do quite well. I dont know how VIP hosts get paid but I'd guess its as a percentage of something, and if people like you, have a good time, and start dropping serious cheddar (of which you get a percentage) you could do quite well. Often times idiots who produce revenue and get paid accordingly make more then the rocket scientist number crunchers who are easily replaceable.

[glassjawed]

I used to do this in nyc when i was younger so i can tell you for a fact that you can make a lot of money doing it. I know 25+ guys in nyc who probably make 6 figures just from this. Generally, what happens as they get older is they become managers or nightclub owners. It´s a good industry to get in for a while to make some contacts. Just be careful because there are a lot of shady people who are full of shit, it is easy to develop addictions and neglect other things in your life, and it will be a hassle getting paid sometimes. People get screwed over all the time in nightlife, especially if you are just starting out. It´s a job that requires a different skillset. You need serious people skills, self control, and to be able to handle lots and lots of stress, especially as your responsibilities increase. I´ve had 100+ promoters start out working under me at some point in time, and I´d say that only maybe 10-15 of them had what it takes to make some serious money at it, lets say 30k+ a year not counting all the other obvious benefits.

[Duke Castile]

Gman,

I'm thinking maybe I could do this as a "summer" job and see where it goes. I don't like being looked upon as a servant either but, from what I notice the guys that have connections seem to be looked upon more as a "guide" type than as a lackey. That said, I like where you are thinking it can go, truth is I can always say fuck it. Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Kimlee, I know what you're saying but, to give you an idea of the kind of money these guys make I and a few friends had a table over at this club on Tuesday night, the bottle alone was 350 and the redbulls were 21 bucks apiece, with a 20% gratuity (mandatory) for one bottle and a couple hrs, the bill was over 500. Then as our area started to die down, the host offered to move us to another table that was more intimate if we bought another bottle or "if we took care of him". We tipped him another hundred bucks and moved to the table.

Anyway, it is actually a job with a lot of applicants vying for a position, what made this guy give me a card only he can say but, we were speaking for quite a while. I don't think it will hurt to see if theres some potential. I do know what you're saying about getting some real human capital and you know I respect your opinion.

Brian, thanks for your defense...I think...

[Duke Castile]

(04-07-2011 09:38 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  

I used to do this in nyc when i was younger so i can tell you for a fact that you can make a lot of money doing it. I know 25+ guys in nyc who probably make 6 figures just from this. Generally, what happens as they get older is they become managers or nightclub owners. It´s a good industry to get in for a while to make some contacts. Just be careful because there are a lot of shady people who are full of shit, it is easy to develop addictions and neglect other things in your life, and it will be a hassle getting paid sometimes. People get screwed over all the time in nightlife, especially if you are just starting out. It´s a job that requires a different skillset. You need serious people skills, self control, and to be able to handle lots and lots of stress, especially as your responsibilities increase. I´ve had 100+ promoters start out working under me at some point in time, and I´d say that only maybe 10-15 of them had what it takes to make some serious money at it, lets say 30k+ a year not counting all the other obvious benefits.

Right on, that's the feeling I've been getting (in regards to potential for money vs talent) I think I could do well with hustling, spotting angles, etc Plus, I like the act of networking.

In regards to bad habits, I think I'll be ok. There's not much "bad" stuff that appeals to me except cheap booze and loose women haha or rather I appeal to them.

[kimleebj]

(04-07-2011 07:44 PM)Brian Wrote:  

Any idiot can make money if he is good at what he does and gets paid via performance or ... have the connections

(04-07-2011 09:38 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  

I´ve had 100+ promoters start out working under me at some point in time, and I´d say that only maybe 10-15 of them had what it takes to make ... 30k+ a year ....

Good, it sounds like there is an important skill element in this job.

On the one hand Fisto writes about $100 tips and $500-$1,000 per night. On the other hand hand Glassjawed writes about a small percentage able to make $30K+ per year. People are only looking at the rosy side.

Let me explain. Why not become a bartender during Spring Break, or a waiter at upscale restaurants on weekends? Because you only work Spring Break if you busted ass during the winter, and waiters must work two weekday lunch shifts for every weekend evening. If hosts make $500+ on busy club nights then they must do free promotional work during the week.

(04-07-2011 09:38 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  

I know 25+ guys in nyc who probably make 6 figures just from this. Generally, what happens as they get older is they become managers or nightclub owners.

it will be a hassle getting paid sometimes. People get screwed over all the time

New York City is an expensive place. Vegas will undoubtedly pay less, and is in a slump. Beside, many secure fields pay $100K+ in mid-career.
PayScale.com

If it is a hassle getting paid, then your 25 lucky friends are matched by 25 other hard-working guys who got screwed when their clubs got sold or they fell out of favor. I'm concerned your outside opportunities could be limited, and you must start over without a credible resume.

[Gmac]

(04-07-2011 04:39 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Fisto,

I say rush it if it is what you want.

Personally, I have never liked "service" jobs (I would rather be the guy taken care of instead of vice versa) but that is a personal decision.

You certainly can do a lot worse than VIP Host in Las Vegas. I know those guys killed it during the "up economy" and I am sure a bright, hustler like yourself could still do extremely well.

I would be careful to stay away from drugs and all the beautiful evil that night time brings, but you probably knew that already.

It kind of does put the dagger through the whole MMA thing though. Then again, you said, "Being a successful fighter just doesn't seem as important to me as it once did". It seems like your mind is already made up. Hell, I am sure (guessing here) that you probably wanted to use MMA as a springboard to something else in life. This may be that springboard.

Why don't you give it a shot and see if you like it?

Keep at it, make it happen, "G Manifesto" it, and maybe one day you will be the guy handing the card to the cat, saying:

"Look kid, I like your style, why don't you come work for me."

Not a bad spot to be, if you ask your humble author.

Solid advice as usual.

I've got nothing to add except that during my time working strip casinos in Vegas, the "VIP" host types are drowning in women constantly. I don't think you can go wrong if you follow G's input.

[glassjawed]

(04-08-2011 08:51 AM)kimleebj Wrote:  

(04-07-2011 07:44 PM)Brian Wrote:  

Any idiot can make money if he is good at what he does and gets paid via performance or ... have the connections

(04-07-2011 09:38 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  

I´ve had 100+ promoters start out working under me at some point in time, and I´d say that only maybe 10-15 of them had what it takes to make ... 30k+ a year ....

Good, it sounds like there is an important skill element in this job.

On the one hand Fisto writes about $100 tips and $500-$1,000 per night. On the other hand hand Glassjawed writes about a small percentage able to make $30K+ per year. People are only looking at the rosy side.

Let me explain. Why not become a bartender during Spring Break, or a waiter at upscale restaurants on weekends? Because you only work Spring Break if you busted ass during the winter, and waiters must work two weekday lunch shifts for every weekend evening. If hosts make $500+ on busy club nights then they must do free promotional work during the week.

(04-07-2011 09:38 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  

I know 25+ guys in nyc who probably make 6 figures just from this. Generally, what happens as they get older is they become managers or nightclub owners.

it will be a hassle getting paid sometimes. People get screwed over all the time

New York City is an expensive place. Vegas will undoubtedly pay less, and is in a slump. Beside, many secure fields pay $100K+ in mid-career.
PayScale.com

If it is a hassle getting paid, then your 25 lucky friends are matched by 25 other hard-working guys who got screwed when their clubs got sold or they fell out of favor. I'm concerned your outside opportunities could be limited, and you must start over without a credible resume.

It´s not so simple as saying the more expensive city will garner higher income. It depends on the dynamics of the nightlife industry. For example, in NY most of the places charge low to no cover, so you´re making money either by selling tables or getting paid per person (often for comps). In other cities where cover may be more standard, you can make more money right up front by getting most or all of that. Also, the more nightclubs there are the more competition there will be to get people, raising your salary. I´m not really sure how the system works in Vegas.

In any case, I think it´s the type of thing where you´ll know relatively fast if you´re good at it or not. The good news is you don´t necesarilly have to do it is a career track. Lots of guys just use it as secondary income and source of fun and if you bring a high quality crowd of really hot girls, you don´t need to work too hard during the week because you could make 500+ a night just for bringing 10-20 people.

[Duke Castile]

To be clear, there's the "promoter" job which I am not interested in at all, and then there's the "host" job, which I very much am. I know that their respective duties overlap but one is much different than the other in terms of pull and whatnot.

[glassjawed]

i dont rly know how it is in vegas, in ny promoters double as hosts

[K-man]

Man, it's been a while since I've been to Vegas, I think last time was 2006.
Do you really have to drop $500 and tip some host dude $100 just to have some fun in a nightclub?
And you are saying you are doing this several nights a week?
This is some serious cash drain. Cash that you may invest better elsewhere. But to each his own.

[Duke Castile]

(04-08-2011 06:00 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  

i dont rly know how it is in vegas, in ny promoters double as hosts

No, you're on point all the way, it's just that here if someone is only a promoter they're just some chump who's got zero pull and trying to make money from getting bodies in the door. Your advice and perspective is greatly appreciated.

[Duke Castile]

(04-09-2011 11:15 AM)K-man Wrote:  

Man, it's been a while since I've been to Vegas, I think last time was 2006.
Do you really have to drop $500 and tip some host dude $100 just to have some fun in a nightclub?
And you are saying you are doing this several nights a week?
This is some serious cash drain. Cash that you may invest better elsewhere. But to each his own.

Yeah it's definitely expensive, the paying for a table doesn't happen every night (rarely, or one is comped to me or a friend) but just going to a decent club is going to cost money, which is another reason why I'm considering the job for at least the summer. Establish deeper connections that will continue to pay off after I ditch it. Unless it's so great that I want to stay. The fringe benefits, as I said, seem to be pretty good. If you want to pull smoking hot ass, you have to go where smoking hot ass congregates.

[kimleebj]

(04-09-2011 11:15 AM)K-man Wrote:  

Do you really have to drop $500 ... to have some fun in a [Vegas] nightclub?

I already posted about cheap Vegas vacations. Fisto avoids paying by his "connections with ... doormen and hosts".

Nightclubs aren't my scene, but let me try to explain. The club owner invests in a "hot" place where girls line up for admission. If 3-4 guys pay $600 for a bottle + tip then they can bypass the line, get a nice table, and impress the girls for only $150-$200 per person. That's how clubs make 85% of their money. Guys pay this because:

1) They don't want to waste precious vacation time,
2) They just won money gambling,
3) They are richer than you.

With a dozen or so drinks from a 750 ml. bottle, so it's not so bad.
Average New York Drink Exceeds $10
You are really paying for convenience and service. I don't know about two-bottle minimums, whether you need to order more more bottles when girls join you, and the price of mixers. But as Fisto mentioned, you can tip the host $100 in lieu of ordering another bottle.

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