[Socrate]

Hi guys,

I hope it's the correct sub for this topic. As I understand, this sub is for knowledge and spiritual activities in general.

I'd like to ask if other people are in my case, because there isn't really someone I can talk to about it. I "discovered" the red pill with a book about 10 years ago, and since then the concept of feminization of society has always been in the back of my mind. At that time I couldn't exactly understand it completely but I knew there was something. I had a couple of LTR were I played the good guy, and they all ended up because I didn't see any future and felt something was wrong with the way things worked. I really couldn't articulate it which was confusing (even more for the girls who I couldn't give any explanation when I left them).

Anyways, after discovering more red pill literature, I understand much better what I'm going through. And to my greatest surprise, everything I understand made me read stuff that I never considered before, like the bible (mostly new testament). And I "fell off my chair" so to say, meaning the message resonated with me greatly. Not just about the "women/men" component of the red pill, but with my experience in this life so far. And after several years of reading/listening to what the Christian philosophy has to offer, I'm convinced that it's the right "way" to follow. I wouldn't have believed you if you told me that years ago, as I was a strong atheist and a complete positivist.

Am I the only one here that experienced a similar path? If yes I'd like to continue this conversation with questions then.

[heavy]

As I wrote about here, if you take the Bible holistically as a story and how it relates to "God", it tells you a lot about being masculine / feminine.

I realized this having grown up Mr Nice Guy good Christian kid, then husband, then realizing I was just being a pussy.

Counseling (with a good psychologist...really psychotherapy) and subsequent divorce taught me red pill and transformed me before I knew about the manosphere. Incidentally, right before I read The Game. The wife and I literally split up and within 3 weeks I was reading The Game and searching PUA stuff.

But going back to the Bible and Christianity, yes, I feel the perspective the Bible tells of a "God" (again, whatever you want to call him) and can provide a good deal of insight into men and women, alpha and beta, mommy / daddy issues, etc. It's really an amazing story (tho really really really dull at times, and I'm not sure should be taken literally).

Read The Grand Miracle by CS Lewis. It's a few page essay from a brilliant mind.

[The Beast1]

I remember that thread heavy.

@ the OP, I recently decided I wanted to go to seminary and posted a thread about it. This post highlights how i've reconciled the "red pill" and traditional Christianity.

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-37480-...#pid763101

A few questions for you, what is your religious background and have you recently read the bible? If you're pressed for time, you only need to read the new testament for a good understanding.

The Bible is an over arching story with the old testament describing a God that is well at best a douchebag. Think dark triad stuff "I am the I am". God in the old testament is arrogant, mean, and scary.

The God of the new testament is described as a self less and loving god. He gave his only son to die for our sins. The bible is 75% fire and brimstone and 25% redemption. Remember, Jesus came to fulfill a prophecy for God's chosen people (the Jews). It just so happened that he also wanted to save the gentiles.

A member on this forum made a book suggestion for me that really opened by eyes to what Christianity is really about. The book's name is called "A Place for You" by Paul Turnier. In it he describes a term called "self abdignation" which basically means you can't really understand something without going to the extreme first. Basically, how can you be selfless and giving of yourself if you've never actually been selfish to begin with?

Christianity is great for the people who you can say to, "Don't touch the hotplate you'll get burned!" A lot of people are followers and don't take risk.
Christianity's secret power is in its ability to help heal your "wounds" from actually touching the hot plate.

PM if you have any questions. My background is Lutheran, but i've been hanging out with a bunch of evangelical southern Baptists that have really helped turn my life around. Christianity is incredibly powerful and can help you heal all sorts of emotional baggage if you go to the right church and group.

[Sonsowey]

Do any of you follow the Christian faith, go to church, etc. but really think God is not real and the bible is just a book of made up stories that may loosely relate to some historical events but have other parts that are nothing more than stories?

[Truth Teller]

Yeah, as Frenchie said, the transformative power of Christianity is simply astounding. If you read the classical theology (Aquinas, Augustine, others), it's also very intellectually rewarding.

The New Testament is full of "red pill" ideas. One of the most significant is 1 Corinthians 13:11: "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

The "red pill" is really putting away your childish things, like your belief in Disney romance and the whole "looks, money, and status are the only way to attract women," which gets hammered into most boys.

[Truth Teller]

(10-20-2014 12:16 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Do any of you follow the Christian faith, go to church, etc. but really think God is not real and the bible is just a book of made up stories that may loosely relate to some historical events but have other parts that are nothing more than stories?

I don't believe that the conception of God many people have is real. I don't believe in a "sky fairy" or "man in the sky." I've told several atheists that I don't believe in the God they don't believe in either. Normally, that falls into the "sky fairy/man in the sky" category. I believe in the God of classical theism.

As for the Bible, I think that there are clear exaggerations. I don't believe that Noah's flood happened or that the Sun stood still for Joshua. As for the historicity of the events, I think that we can't know about some of them, others didn't happen, and some definitely happened.

[The Beast1]

(10-20-2014 12:16 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Do any of you follow the Christian faith, go to church, etc. but really think God is not real and the bible is just a book of made up stories that may loosely relate to some historical events but have other parts that are nothing more than stories?

For the most part I do. I'm incredibly fascinated with very very old stories surrounding creation and early humans.

If you start delving really deep into Jewish and Christian mysticism you will get all sorts of crazy stuff. Analyze this stuff with a red pill perspective and a lot of things will make f*ck all sense.

The Tanakh in particular comes to mind.

Personally, I think the stories contained in the Tanakh and even the Genesis story are stories telling of homo sapiens interacting with other hominon species.

In the tanakh in particular there are stories of human females procreating with groups called "the watchmen" and the like saying they survived after the great flood. The character "Lillith" is also mentioned a lot in multiple places by the same name. What she is described as (the first feminist) also is very similar between stories. Personally i don't think this is a coincidence. Read more on who Lillith is here: http://www.returnofkings.com/33270/the-d...the-occult

If you look at Genesis, the Epic of Galgimesh, Greek Mythology, and other early stories you'll notice the themes, characters, and motifs are all roughly the same. It's like trying to remember a dream of a distant memory.

Anywho, I would keep an open comparative mind on all of the books in the bible pre exodus. Remember, there isn't any archeological evidence supporting a mass exodus of slave labor out of Egypt.

I do however believe that God is real and i've had some incredibly powerful spiritual moments driven by prayer. Personally, I believe this is caused by the pineal gland and I wouldn't be surprised if a mixture of working out, my supplements, and cutting out flouride toothpaste fired it up. Ever since having my spiritual awakening, i can feel a mark on my forehead that isn't there. Similar to the feeling of having ash put on you yet there isn't any ash.

I also feel more "intuitively" driven in specific places. I'm a little embarrassed to talk about this publicly but I believe the Lord has something in store for me and has been setting in chain a lot of events to make it possible.

Being red pill has helped show me what damage this culture has done to my psyche as well as others. Certain people look dead to me while others look more "alive" when I speak to them. Overall, being red pill made my faith stronger.

[Phoenix]

It's certainly not 'becoming a Christian'.

The reason Christianity might be considered 'redpill', and why it has conservative values, is because it is rigidly derived from a very old book - 'the bible'.
Since this book is old, you are obviously not going to find pro-feminist, pro-gay, pro-promiscuity teachings, since those things are relatively new. In the time the book was written, social values were conservative.
For the same reason you could call Islam 'redpill'.

[Isaac Jordan]

I'm an atheist, but taking the red pill has given me a new appreciation for Christianity.

Before, I thought religions were simply made-up stories used to control people. Humans fear the unknown, and we prefer to fabricate explanations to dispel these fears rather than admit we don't have all the answers. Those who realized this took advantage of it in order to manipulate believers and structure the rules to their advantage.

While religion was (and still is) in many instances used to control the masses, belief systems like Christianity have done a remarkable job at distilling human nature into easily understood stories and parables. The authors may not have understood WHY human nature is what is, but they definitely understood that humans have a distinct, innate nature, that without rules and guidance can cause grief and misery.

Take Genesis, for example. The very first story in the Bible has a woman rebelling, testing her husband, and bringing suffering upon them both when he fails that test. Is that not a perfect example of the nature of woman, and of the consequences of not restraining that nature?

Just like advances in astronomy dispelled the myth of Atlas holding up the sky, advances in biochemistry and evolutionary biology/psychology are quickly explaining why humans act the way we do. But just because the stories in the Bible may turn out to be just that-stories-doesn't mean they don't give us incredibly valuable insights into the best ways to live, work, marry, raise children, and form productive, happy societies.

So while I still don't believe God exists, I do believe that the Bible remains as valuable a text as it ever was, perhaps even more so now that civilization is beginning to abandon the culture that allowed it to be built in the first place.

[Orion]

It depends on what kind of message do you find in religion

Majority of people understand religion as a way to win favor of gods by behaving in a certain way. The problem with such comprehension of religion is that man (in his egoistic manner) puts himself in charge. If i behave good - I'll go to heaven = I get to decide everything, I'm the ultimate authority. If i do something wrong - I'll later do something good to fix it.

However, Christianity teaches us that we alone cannot win our salvation. That Christ himself sacrificed for our sins. Our task is to submit to Christ's authority and obey his commands. Everything else is in God's hands. Hence, we recognize authority above us that we follow unconditionally. We pass over authority to our women, they pass it to our children.

Message of modern Christianity: Let's all love each other to death and hallelujah, stay positive and you will win favor of gods.

[The Beast1]

(10-20-2014 01:59 PM)Orion Wrote:  

Message of modern Christianity: Let's all love each other to death and hallelujah, stay positive and you will win favor of gods.

Where did you gather that assumption?

[Socrate]

(10-20-2014 01:59 PM)Orion Wrote:  

It depends on what kind of message do you find in religion

Majority of people understand religion as a way to win favor of gods by behaving in a certain way. The problem with such comprehension of religion is that man (in his egoistic manner) puts himself in charge. If i behave good - I'll go to heaven = I get to decide everything, I'm the ultimate authority. If i do something wrong - I'll later do something good to fix it.

However, Christianity teaches us that we alone cannot win our salvation. That Christ himself sacrificed for our sins. Our task is to submit to Christ's authority and obey his commands. Everything else is in God's hands. Hence, we recognize authority above us that we follow unconditionally. We pass over authority to our women, they pass it to our children.

Message of modern Christianity: Let's all love each other to death and hallelujah, stay positive and you will win favor of gods.

I don't agree with your conclusion about "let's all love each other" like it's a hippie doctrine.
The words are correct, but the way I see it, the meaning of the word "love" has been feminized (among many other words and concepts). As I understand it, love from the Christian definition is closer to other concepts such a braveness, selfless dedication, courage than it is to the modern word "love" used by the retard characters of How I met your mother.

As weird as it sounds, I came to religious faith by using conceptual and rational thoughts (I'm a science guy and got a master in engineering). I had to admit reason alone wasn't enough to explain everything. Because if reason rules everything, where does reason come from? The "algorithm" always blocked towards the end, and the only way I could "close" it is by using faith. Anyways, english is not my native language so I apologize if I don't express my faith well.

[LouEvilSlugger]

One thing is for sure... if Jesus was on alive today he would criticize the Catholic Church, the feminist movement, etc. the same way he did for the Sanhedrin and Pharisees

[Orion]

(10-20-2014 03:10 PM)Socrate Wrote:  

I don't agree with your conclusion about "let's all love each other" like it's a hippie doctrine.

Obviously, in my conclusion i was actually criticizing "modernized" Christianity.

[Cattle Rustler]

Religion is blue pill, their texts make good fiction reading though.

[L M McCoy]

I fucked a pastor's daughter by infiltrating the enemies fortitude. I was cunning, deceitful, and overall horny. I used all the information I learned at Hebrew school to razzle and dazzle.

Actual picture of me getting past the Christian defenses.

[Truth Teller]

(10-20-2014 03:10 PM)Socrate Wrote:  

As weird as it sounds, I came to religious faith by using conceptual and rational thoughts (I'm a science guy and got a master in engineering). I had to admit reason alone wasn't enough to explain everything. Because if reason rules everything, where does reason come from? The "algorithm" always blocked towards the end, and the only way I could "close" it is by using faith. Anyways, english is not my native language so I apologize if I don't express my faith well.

The same is actually true for me as well. I came to religious faith not based on some intense personal experience, but based on reason. I find the philosophical arguments for God (namely, the cosmological argument) to be compelling. I became a Christian based on evidence. There's also the matter that materialism and naturalism are somewhat self-refuting. If we are only the products of nature, then why should we trust anything we think?

Natural selection selects for survival, not truth.

[Mage]

Bible certainly is a very wise book to those who know how to read it.

But I would warn against becoming a simple christian - Christianity today has transformed into a churchianity and is actually very blue pill and feminine.

Instead I would recommend that you approach the Holy book from a Kaballistic perspective. This way you will reveal a great deal of red pill truths hidden in the great sacred book.

Christianity has always been an exoteric religion for the masses. The true esoteric knowledge of the Bible is not meant for the masses. But as for a red pill seeker it should be a familiar experience to you.

[Dr. Howard]

^ adding on to Mage and some others. There is the bible combined with a christian and all of its meaning and then there is the bible standing alone as an old holy book and its use to a non christian.

To a non christian it has value with its parables on human behavior, wisdom, men and women. It never ceases to amaze me how people will dismiss the bible but intently listen and learn from zen koans, chinese proverbs or viking lore (the havamal) while not being adherents to any of those faiths. All of these things are ancient texts written by wise people and time tested for usefulness. With belief or not I think the book of solomon, proverbs and the story of samson all provide great red pill advice, even without having faith. So does the story of Herod ordering the beheading of John the baptist but thats not one you can just pick up and read and have it all make sense.

[The Beast1]

(10-21-2014 03:24 AM)Mage Wrote:  

Bible certainly is a very wise book to those who know how to read it.

But I would warn against becoming a simple christian - Christianity today has transformed into a churchianity and is actually very blue pill and feminine.

Instead I would recommend that you approach the Holy book from a Kaballistic perspective. This way you will reveal a great deal of red pill truths hidden in the great sacred book.

Christianity has always been an exoteric religion for the masses. The true esoteric knowledge of the Bible is not meant for the masses. But as for a red pill seeker it should be a familiar experience to you.

Saint Paul talks about this. Only when a person is spiritually ready does the writing make sense.

[Mage]

(10-21-2014 04:21 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

It never ceases to amaze me how people will dismiss the bible but intently listen and learn from zen koans, chinese proverbs or viking lore (the havamal) while not being adherents to any of those faiths.

This is very true. Churchianity has done all it can to make Bible unappealing and mundane and make white post-christian westerners seek spirituality in various exotic places some of whom are respectable but others are a complete mumbo jumbo an McDojo type of spirituality.

For instance - so many people speculate that Jesus traveled to India and learned from Yogi. It's sad that these people want to create such far fetched theories and don't even bother to research about the ancient essenes and other ezoteric streams in Jewish and Assyrian faiths to realize that he didn't have to travel anywhere and that Torah and other jewish texts hold as much spiritual truths as Vedas and maybe even more.

[Mage]

(10-21-2014 08:15 AM)frenchie Wrote:  

Saint Paul talks about this. Only when a person is spiritually ready does the writing make sense.

This is called PARDES (from which the misunderstood conceptof paradise comes) principle according to which written Pentateuch can be interpreted in 4 (major)levels. But it is important to understand that it can be interpreted even more differently in all but probably the deepest level which gives full understanding about the Creator and the world, but which has been fully reached by but the few sages. This difference comes from the qualities of the human who reads it. Therefore two persons who read the same text will arrive at different conclusions about the text and nature of God based on their own qualities. This different interpritation is the basis of differences between all major faiths and the reason for all major conflicts in the world. That is the reason while this is the most diskussed book over multiple millenia and still the world argues about what it wants to say.

Those who understand Torah in the most primitive level view it as a mere historical text or fairy tale. The next level of understanding reveals Torah as as some allegories or useful hints. A person at this level can view Bible as a book on morality. Deeper level goes beyond mere allegory and reveals that the text speaks about real and actual forces that govern his world without any allegory and Torah becomes a magicians handbook. Yet a deeper level talks about attaining transcending this world instead of manipulating it.

But study is not enough to understand this only a person of certain qualities can attain a certain level and therefore it is a spiritual book.

[Truth Teller]

Mage is absolutely correct. If you read Nahmanidies' biblical commentaries, as well as Maimonides biblical commentaries, you'll find that there are often deeper levels of meaning than "And God said, let us make man in our own image."

A strictly literal interpretation impoverishes the Bible. Also, I agree that many forms of Christianity have become extremely blue pill. I lean towards traditional Catholicism, so I haven't seen too much of that, but I know it exists in other sects.

[The Beast1]

(10-21-2014 10:22 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

A strictly literal interpretation impoverishes the Bible. Also, I agree that many forms of Christianity have become extremely blue pill. I lean towards traditional Catholicism, so I haven't seen too much of that, but I know it exists in other sects.

It's blue pill because they're picking and choosing what they want to read and hear. I swear I hear the same stories over and over again. No one applies the golden rule to current problems in sermons. It's all of the same BS.

[Dr. Howard]

(10-21-2014 11:20 AM)frenchie Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 10:22 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

A strictly literal interpretation impoverishes the Bible. Also, I agree that many forms of Christianity have become extremely blue pill. I lean towards traditional Catholicism, so I haven't seen too much of that, but I know it exists in other sects.

It's blue pill because they're picking and choosing what they want to read and hear. I swear I hear the same stories over and over again. No one applies the golden rule to current problems in sermons. It's all of the same BS.

This is what I find also, sermons tend to be about Paul, John the Baptist, Jesus and maybe Mark. The more gritty stuff usually isn't covered in a sunday sermon, its for more serious bible study, which is too bad. As an intellectual man its the other elements of the bible that I found more cementing.