[reco2100]

What nomad says. There is an old quote in the psychology field it says "people are how you find them" they rarely change.

[Nomad77]

All relationships are doomed to die just as we are all going to die. Just because a relationship will eventually end does not mean it's a failure. Same way that your death does not mean you were a failure in life. But the faster a relationship peaks the sooner it will die - same as the bloom of a flower. This applies to everything in life.

Everything ends, my point is, we just have to learn to enjoy things while they last. Don't worry about the end, worry about enjoying the now. The end is going to come sooner or later so why worry about it. It's the same with life, do you sit around worryiing when you are going to die or how you can enjoy life today? Just enjoy your relationships while they last and things are going good. That's what I do.

[reco2100]

Exactly...another quote..."every relationship you will ever have someone will get left" kind of liberating isn't it?

[Days of Broken Arrows]

A word of warning:

Being in a relationship over ten years with anyone will change you. Your brains (i.e. thought processes and emotions) become wrapped around each other.

This is my own theory, gleaned from experience. I think that when you spend that much time with someone -- especially starting in your twenties --you begin to do something I'll call "communal thinking." Your better qualities compensate for the other person's flaws, and vice-versa.

When the other person leaves, it feels like your missing a part of yourself. And that goes even if you had come to dislike that person and found a woman ten times hotter. So this has nothing to do with "one-itis" either -- it's something else.

And I believe this sort of thing isn't even confined to romantic relationships.

Anyone who closely followed the careers of the Beatles or Rolling Stones can see that when John Lennon and Paul McCartney or Mick Jagger and Keith Richards worked apart, it was never the same. They had grown up together artistically and when they were separated, their music was missing something -- even if the music was technically "better" (as in McCartney's case, sometimes). There is a give-and-take they could no longer fall back on, among other things.

When I split with my ex-wife after almost two decades, I felt like I could go back to living like I did when I was 21, only better. I couldn't. My thought processes had changed. I no longer saw the world the same way or interacted with it the same way.

So, if you intend to keep your frame as a bachelor, I'd say limit relationships to around three years. Because that was how long I was with my college girlfriend and this sure didn't apply when that ended.

[RUIN]

@nomad - ok I think we're getting off-track from the thread topic. The OP questioned the idea of getting to 40-50 and whether or not they regret NOT settling down. Going by what's been said the consensus is "don't rush it" and I think that by that age if you become ready to settle the other person won't be in a position where they are critical to your happiness or wellbeing.

And I lost my whole train of thought when the app froze and I couldn't log back in. Apologies

[TigerMandingo]

(10-16-2014 10:17 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

So, if you intend to keep your frame as a bachelor, I'd say limit relationships to around three years. Because that was how long I was with my college girlfriend and this sure didn't apply when that ended.

There's a really good book on this particular topic called Love Lasts Three Years by Frédéric Biegbeder. (original is in French, L'Amour Dure Trois Ans)

http://www.amazon.com/Holiday-Coma-Lasts...279&sr=1-3

He basically posits exactly what you wrote: relationships tend to reach their peak by 3 years' time. It's not written in stone, obviously, but it seems to hold true.

An excerpt from the novel that I found interesting (rough translation of the original excerpt):

Quote:

The whole problem of love, it seems to me, is this: we need security to feel happy while we need insecurity to be in love. Happiness is based on trust while love demands doubt and anxiety. In short, basically, marriage was designed to make people happy, but not to stay in love. And falling in love is not the best way to find happiness; if that were the case, it would have been known since the dawn of time. I don't know if I'm being clear, but I understand myself: what I mean is that marriage mixes those things which don't go together very well

[Beyond Borders]

(10-16-2014 04:57 AM)RUIN Wrote:  

Agreed, I wouldn't have picked JK Rowling for such a quote. But stranger things happen at sea.

As far as leading in a morally wholesome sense I think a big factor is the woman involved. While I won't stoop to a low level jus to try and prove who's boss (I don't think it works anyway) I think being inspiring and encouraging is only worthwhile to those who will benefit from it.

Well, yes, but generally you shouldn't be in anything resembling a long-term relationship with someone who doesn't at least have strong potential in them anyways. If they do have potential, a healthy relationship often brings out the best in both parties. The women I'm referring too mostly wanted something better in life, even if they didn't quite know it.

If, on the other hand, they're completely dead weight and so immersed in their bad habits that even being around a more positive presence doesn't cause them to take a second look at themselves, well, you (I, we) deserve any pain and suffering you get from dating them. Of course, we all inevitably make mistakes, but you come to your senses and move on, which isn't something I've always done in a punctual manner but is something I've always done eventually.

So the type of leadership I'm referring to still applies in the context of being in relationships with women worth being in relationships with, or who are at least worth molding. There is, after all, a huge difference between molding a woman with some quality characteristics into a better version of herself and trying to turn chickenshit into chicken salad.

[RUIN]

Agreed, like trying to mix cold water and oil

[Ringo]

This is a very interesting topic, and it has been made even more interesting thanks to the inputs posted. Thanks everyone.

This thread comes up in a very interesting point in my life.

I'm 22 and I broke up my girlfriend of 2 years a few days ago. Our relationship is/was great (although I felt us in a less-than-stellar moment the last few weeks). It felt much like Roosh's "Anna" story. I dreamed of her breaking up with me so I could be guilt-free and resume my life of debauchery. She didn't.

She quietly cried when I ended things. Worst of all, she sadly resigned, respecting my decision. Paradoxally, that makes it even more painful. She's a great girl and I love her a lot.

But the beast inside feeds on novelty and there's never enough to quiet it down.

Time to start all over again.

[lycosidae]

It depends on how much experience you have with relationships.
If you're like me and have lived with three different girls, married one of them, with a combined 10 years of experience, I can tell you that relationships only provide temporary fulfillment to a man who knows his options and values his freedom.

If you've been in the game your whole adult life like Roosh, you're probably going to "yearn" for something more on occasion just because you crave new experiences... Personal advice from experience is to ignore those yearnings, it's not worth it. Mini-relationships is a good compromise to get your feet wet in "deeper relations".

There isn't really "anything more" when it comes to women and dating. Every relationship I've had has degenerated in the same way, even with my current girlfriend who isn't even American I eventually get fed up with sharing a space with someone else and want my freedom back. If you're on this forum, you likely have the spirit of the hunt in you and there's no going back from that... at least not until you're way too old to game. I'm not there yet, so I won't give you an opinion on that.

Don't overinvest in relationships. Find fulfillment in your friendships, hobbies, and other masculine pursuits and put aside notions of finding your soul mate or the "perfect woman". It all eventually gets boring even if you do find that person, and then you're back here on this forum.

(10-15-2014 09:42 AM)poledaddy Wrote:  

It seems like there's been an upward tick in reflection about relationships/end-game in the manosphere lately - Dagonet's break-up, Roosh's epilogue on Anna, VK's 34 post. Lizard of Oz's thread a while back.

I was struck by the similarity between Dagonet's "feeling that something is wrong" but being unable to pinpoint the precise reason, and Roosh's struggles with the feeling that he had everything "on paper", but that he still had a feeling of doubt, to the the point of hoping that she would be the one that acted to end things with him to avoid the regret of doing it himself.

The question I have, particularly for the post-30/40 guys on here - did you ever push through a rough patch in an LTR or Marriage, to the point that you were thinking about ending things, stayed with it, and do you feel that you were better off for staying? Regardless of whether that LTR ended anyway eventually, or you are still together to this day.

I expect the consensus on here, aside from the avoiding relationships/marriage altogether, will be to always move on at the first sign of doubt / imperfection - and I don't disagree with that. I'm just curious if there are any guys at all that can attest to being LTR in the past, having a phase of existential doubt, pushing through it, and can say today they made the correct choice in doing so.

Basically what I'm trying to do is re-validate the red pill script that you should always leave her first, and ask questions later - 100% of the time, no exceptions. That if you have the slightest level of doubt that you should stay, then it's time to hit the road, no matter how many emotional or logical reasons justify otherwise.

[General Stalin]

I can attest to the 3-years theory. Additionally, per my personal experience, I would present that the the infatuation/"puppy-love" phase that grips new couples generally lasts 4-6 months until at least one of the two parties is no longer as interested in impressing the other. It may be argued that it takes 4-6 months on average for a person to truly determine if someone would make a good long-term partner or is worth his/her effort.

My last 4 legitimate relationships lasted roughly 6 months each. One of them I ended and the other 3 were ended by the girl. The last month or 2 of each relationship it became quite obvious (to both parties) that the honeymoon was over and things were on the downhill.

Now the grand question: is it worth it? It really depends on the individual and how you interpret life and experiences I suppose. I'm in my late 20's and have not had a relationship last over 3.5 years. I like to tell myself I have no regrets, but every relationship I have been in, long and short, I feel like would have been better for me to save myself the heartache and ended them earlier. Perhaps I have learned a lot by pushing through hardships and forgiving the other person when maybe I shouldn't have, but have those lessons saved me from future heartache? I would say no. What we are essentially asking ourselves is if the risk of emotional agony of feeling lonely and feeling the void in your life after the close of a relationship worth being involved in the first place. In other words: is it better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all?

As WIA said in the first reply: men tend to get behind something and roll with it through thick and thin. If you meet someone that piques your interest and goes out of her way for you and pleases you - after a brief period you will begin to foster warm feelings about that person and quickly begin to grow attached and comfortable with the closeness, intimacy, and dependability that you will continue to spend time with this person and enjoy their company and communication. As was referenced in the Love and Limerence writing - your mind will ignore the other person's shortcomings in favor of the desirable traits they have and you will become essentially "blinded by love."

Many manosphere folks would say getting into a LTR is a fool's errand. There is a lot of subjective context in that sentiment. On the one hand, and LTR is a huge liabilty. Emotionally, physically, socially, financially, you name it. Getting yourself wrapped up into another person's life will have a huge impact on every facet of your life. On he other hand, LTR's offer a lot of life experiences that can be extremely enjoyable and timeless that you will never experience outside of that kind of a relationship. It's a tough pill in our generation and in our culture.

I also just want to point out that this is a fantastic thread and there has been a lot of great dialogue shared here by many experienced, worldly, intellectual minds. Great read.

[robreke]

(10-17-2014 03:44 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

I can attest to the 3-years theory. Additionally, per my personal experience, I would present that the the infatuation/"puppy-love" phase that grips new couples generally lasts 4-6 months until at least one of the two parties is no longer as interested in impressing the other. It may be argued that it takes 4-6 months on average for a person to truly determine if someone would make a good long-term partner or is worth his/her effort.

My last 4 legitimate relationships lasted roughly 6 months each. One of them I ended and the other 3 were ended by the girl. The last month or 2 of each relationship it became quite obvious (to both parties) that the honeymoon was over and things were on the downhill.

Now the grand question: is it worth it? It really depends on the individual and how you interpret life and experiences I suppose. I'm in my late 20's and have not had a relationship last over 3.5 years. I like to tell myself I have no regrets, but every relationship I have been in, long and short, I feel like would have been better for me to save myself the heartache and ended them earlier. Perhaps I have learned a lot by pushing through hardships and forgiving the other person when maybe I shouldn't have, but have those lessons saved me from future heartache? I would say no. What we are essentially asking ourselves is if the risk of emotional agony of feeling lonely and feeling the void in your life after the close of a relationship worth being involved in the first place. In other words: is it better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all?

As WIA said in the first reply: men tend to get behind something and roll with it through thick and thin. If you meet someone that piques your interest and goes out of her way for you and pleases you - after a brief period you will begin to foster warm feelings about that person and quickly begin to grow attached and comfortable with the closeness, intimacy, and dependability that you will continue to spend time with this person and enjoy their company and communication. As was referenced in the Love and Limerence writing - your mind will ignore the other person's shortcomings in favor of the desirable traits they have and you will become essentially "blinded by love."

Many manosphere folks would say getting into a LTR is a fool's errand. There is a lot of subjective context in that sentiment. On the one hand, and LTR is a huge liabilty. Emotionally, physically, socially, financially, you name it. Getting yourself wrapped up into another person's life will have a huge impact on every facet of your life. On he other hand, LTR's offer a lot of life experiences that can be extremely enjoyable and timeless that you will never experience outside of that kind of a relationship. It's a tough pill in our generation and in our culture.

I also just want to point out that this is a fantastic thread and there has been a lot of great dialogue shared here by many experienced, worldly, intellectual minds. Great read.

I think it is better to have loved and lost....in the LONG term. Meaning, in a certain time range after the breakup , usually anytime from 1 month to perhaps as much as a year in some cases, and this is especially true for the dumpee, the agony and heartbreak of an ended relationship is very painful.

However, in the long term, years and years down the road you will look on those past loves as memories and often good memories. There will be no more heartache, only perhaps a dullness and maybe a small amount of melancholy. But as they say it can be a bittersweet memory.

Also every failed "love" , read relationship, makes us stronger and wiser for the next one. Breakups , as long as we learn from them, are a form of growth.

Imagine the man, who at the end of his days, had never loved. I suppose this would be quite the pathetic spectacle. Hopefully, we can all eventually find it and have it at the twilight of life. For now, enjoy your prime and take your time.