[blacknwhitespade]

RVFers do you vote? Will you vote in the upcoming election next month? Are you excited to be exercising your "constitutional right to vote"??

I used to be very passionate about this when I was 18-29, now in my 30s I don't seem to care anymore. I loathe too many people in the 2 major parties, I've voted for mostly 3rd party candidates since 2010, but now I don't think I wanna vote period. I don't really like Democracy, and I don't think it matters who you vote for what with the way the American gov't is rigged. I see these election campaigns as all hot air, a glamorous, adrenaline-raising show to make money and the elected leaders all write/support the same stupid laws once in office. My facebook feed is filled with friends ranting n raving about Democrats, Republicans, etc, etc. I hear people chattering about it at work, in the doctor's office, at the grocery store. I hate it, all it does is divide people and bring out the worst in them.

I think I'm gonna stay home this election or else show up and do a write-in for Hitler/Stalin '14. How 'bout you?

[Barron]

After seeing how the RNC blatantly cheated Ron Paul out of the delegates he was stealing from Romney and co in the previous election I will never vote again. The two parties will put whichever candidate they choose forward and we don't have a fucking say in the matter.

If you think your vote counts, other than on the level of making pot legal, let gays marry or not, etc. you're just fooling yourself

[DChambers]

Yes. If there is no one I like running then I write in a candidate. Frank Zappa 2024!

[Hedonistic Traveler]

This November will be the first election I vote in. I could have voted in 2012, but I sent in my absentee ballot too late.

I'll probably be voting third party in 2016, at least for the presidential race, so my vote for that is a waste. Plus the state I live in will vote for Clinton, Warren, O'Malley or whoever the fuck runs on that side.

I think local elections are important though, and because less people vote your say does count for something.

[MtnMan]

i dont, i reject what we have as a current system, and do not want to participate in something I see as null and void. The dem vs. republican charade has degraded into nothing but a giant divide and conquer operation. I don't participate in that shit.

[kosko]

Vote on your local level. City and County affairs effect and impact your daily life on a more pronounced level the the smoke and mirror show in DC.

The irony is that the lower you go is that voter turnout is the lowest and people complain about service delivery, local taxes, etc when they can easily affect its course with a little homework and a trip to the voting booth.

My friend got fed up with things in my hometown and ran for mayor. He was up against a corrupt guy from the construction industry so it was a tough shot for him to crack but but he suceedes in being able to bridge the youth and minority vote and get their issues (mostly about transit services) moved up on the cities priority list.
He also was able to get enough heat on the city to get a oversight board out in place, because in his mind the new mayor was going to go to town hooking up his crony friends so at least this board would keep things in check.

[Sp5]

(10-10-2014 01:47 PM)DChambers Wrote:  

Yes. If there is no one I like running then I write in a candidate. Frank Zappa 2024!

[Old Fritz]

[la_mode]

Two sides of the same coin.

[TheWastelander]

I know this is probably going to piss some people off, but here's the thing:

You can quote all the clever little sayings you want and believe all the conspiracies you want but at the end of the day if you're not voting for the person who aligns with your values more than the other guy you're giving up the fight before it's even begun.

No politician is perfect and even fewer are probably truthful (that's why you judge them by their records), but they're not all handpicked by some sinister Other working behind the scenes.

Ignorance and apathy are two of the reasons why a lot of scummy people win.

Is the American system corrupt? Certainly. But so is every other system to some degree.

As someone who is involved in second amendment activism, the key to success in politics is about influencing those with power through lots of money, work, and effort.

The NRA, for example, isn't powerful because of gun manufacturers. Their total donations to them pale in comparison to the crazy ass gun owners like myself who pour money and time into fighting politicians who are anti-gun. We have long memories, don't forget sleights, and often are fanatically devoted to our cause to the point where any politician, Dem or Republican, in a moderately left-leaning, centrist or right-leaning part of the country knows they need to avoid the issue or be supportive lest they anger passionate activists who organize and vote all the damn time.

That's why we're winning in court, why anti-gun CO state senators were recalled and thrown out, why concealed carry was anathema in 1986 but is common throughout the US today, and why more law-abiding citizens own guns than ever before.



Falling back on conspiracies as to how everyone's all the same or the system is rigged is just an excuse for laziness. It's fatalism.

Politics isn't for the weakhearted or the weak-willed.

If people who cared about men's issues were even half as motivated to involve themselves, donate, and politically organize I think we'd see some real change in this country. But change doesn't happen overnight. It takes time.

[MidWest]

Yes I do. I always try to vote.

My thing is that if you actually believe in freedom and if you actually believe in the right to vote, or the right to have liberty, or the ideals of Democracy, then get off your ass and vote. I know this sounds cliche as hell, but people have shed blood for that right and I owe it to them to get off my ass and cast my ballot. As a Hispanic American I almost feel obligated to vote because a minority needs their voice heard the loudest.


I'm not sold on the whole "I'm not voting because politicians are corrupt." Its a poor excuse in my opinion. The reason politicians are corrupt and get away with it is because people do not vote and don't care enough to vote and keep politicians accountable. A perfect democracy only exists when its citizens fully participate in the process which doesn't really occur (Only like half the country actually votes), when you get half participation and not 100% then democracy turns into its corrupt form. A perfect democracy is 100% participation from its citizens, if you don't vote, Democracy fails.

America is only about 200 something years old. American democracy is still an experiment. We can pretty much still fail, but what I love about this country is the phrase in the U.S. constitution's preamble that says "A more perfect union" which basically means that we aren't perfect, but each period of time we strive to be more perfect until we reach that perfection.

Vote up fellas.

[Ensam]

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. In the past I was a staunch pro-vote guy but recently that's changed.

It happened when I heard people discussion the voter ID laws and how election fraud is practically non-existent these days. Even a few decades ago it used to be rampant. So why don't people try and rig elections anymore? Either they've gotten so good at it that they don't get caught - in which case why bother voting. Or they have other ways of influencing elections or elected officials and it's just not worth the bother - in which case why bother voting. There's a slim chance that it's just too hard these days but that seems very unlikely given the lack voter id laws and what not.

[lskdfjldsf]

Exactly Wastelander ^^

The system is exploited by politicians, media, corporate interests, etc. to influence public opinion and influence votes, but the core integrity of the system is still intact. Media outlets control debates, news coverage, and create controversy but at the end of the day, people are still required to go to the voting booth to enact change. Hillary should be a candidate for president? Why? Said fucking who? The media has already framed the discussion, yet it's still entirely dependent on a vote.

The problem is the continual dumbing down of the general public through non-issues and social distractions, combined with heavy-handed corporate influence in advertising, campaigning, and media coverage. Many misinterpret this influence for complete control over the system when in reality it's just a lack of ethics and mild corruption. The Republicans and the Democrats could both be tossed to the side, but the accumulation of wealth within the two major parties and their influence in media ensures third-party candidates and those outside the mainstream (Ron Paul for example) are kept out of the spotlight.

Theoretically though, an entire movement could organize and flip things over democratically in an election cycle. Just a matter of practicality and breaking old habits.

[The Beast1]

A SJW started arguing with me about something. I killed the conversation by saying,

"The only people whose opinion gets considered in this country are the ones who have an opinion on the capital gains tax."

I personally think the voting system is rigged in this country. Electronic voting machines especially are just too simple to hack.

[TheWastelander]

(10-10-2014 04:51 PM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

Exactly Wastelander ^^

The system is exploited by politicians, media, corporate interests, etc. to influence public opinion and influence votes, but the core integrity of the system is still intact. Media outlets control debates, news coverage, and create controversy but at the end of the day, people are still required to go to the voting booth to enact change.

The problem is the continual dumbing down of the general public through non-issues and social distractions, combined with heavy-handed corporate influence in advertising, campaigning, and media coverage. Many misinterpret this influence for complete control over the system, but I don't believe conspiracy theories are grounded in much truth. The Republicans and the Democrats could both be tossed to the side, but the accumulation of wealth within the two major parties and their influence in media ensures third-party candidates and those outside the mainstream (Ron Paul for example) are kept out of the spotlight.

Theoretically though, an entire movement could organize and flip things over democratically in an election cycle. Just a matter of practicality and breaking old habits.

Yep. I agree.

Just think about it this way, naysayers: does anyone here think the gun rights crowd are favored by the mainstream media?

Unlike the manosphere, which is unfortunately barely on the mainstream political radar, almost the entire Democratic establishment, Michael Bloomberg, Bill Gates, George Soros, Hollywood, etc. is constantly spending multiple millions of dollars and thousands of man hours trying to completely fuck the gun rights crowd over every opportunity they get.

We're talking several hours of anti-gun propaganda on the airwaves every year, bullshit in the schools, hit pieces, all sorts of accusations, astro-turfing opposition, the occasional SWATting, some state governments trying to legally screw us over, etc.

Yet you know what? We keep coming. We're relentless. We don't stop. We keep winning. And I'm sure if you've browsed political forums online we rarely shut the fuck up (which admittedly can sometimes be detrimental).

[Libertas]

Yeah, though I know my vote is pretty mathematically irrelevant unless it's a Democratic primary, even in a local election.

The place is right up the street though so it's not out of my way.

[Que enspastic]

In Australia voting in Federal Elections is mandatory. You have the right not to vote for any candidate but you must still submit a blank piece of paper with your name on it at the ballot.

While it may be seen as anti-democratic (enforced democracy) it has the salutary effect of restricting wack-job radical groups like you see in most other countries getting much of a say.

In US Republican Primaries, the candidates have to appeal to the groups who turn out as blocs in voting (hardcore Christian evangelical types, pro-gun militias, Creationists, pro-Israeli settler expansion types - the apathetic and educated are less inclined to vote) which forces them to pander to nonsense.

Enforced voting means the mainstream view is better represented as minority groups that would otherwise do well by means of superior mobilisation and lobbying have their influence diluted.

[Geomann180]

I don't vote.

Someone once said:

Quote:

If voting actually changed anything, they'd make it illegal.

That being said, I don't tell people that I don't vote. Nothing has gotten me called un-American faster.

G

[la_mode]

You guys can believe what you want - someone out there already knows who the next president will be.

[MdWanderer]

(10-10-2014 06:25 PM)la_mode Wrote:  

You guys can believe what you want - someone out there already knows who the next president will be.

Haha just made a thread about that. Anywho....

I just voted in my state elections. I do believe state elections aren't as rigged and bought and sold as DC is, so I participate regularly. My home state of Maryland is heavily Democratic and is circling the toilet bowl so to speak but the GOP gubernatorial candidate has closed in and Marylanders are starting to get sick and tired of excessive taxation and anti business policies.

[The Father]

(10-10-2014 01:40 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

I think I'm gonna stay home this election or else show up and do a write-in for Hitler/Stalin '14. How 'bout you?

You don't have to write her in; she's running in '16 :/

[TigerMandingo]

Voting is bluepill.

[Old Fritz]

There are many many MANY Americans that can't even name 10 congress members. Many people still don't know who Biden is. Yet they are fucking voting. That says enough about the voting system.

Politics itself is violence. Politics itself is anti social by its very nature. That being to maintain divisions between society. People today should start questioning why we even still have government.

[JuanQuinQuin]

Hell Yes.

I was born under the last fucking dictatorship standing in the Americas. I'm not counting Venezuela yet but definitely is going that way. The game is rigged, politicians generally are what they are, but what then? Just sit down and see America being overrun by the same fucked up kind of people who let Castro took over.

Nope.

I vote every time I can. Call me naive but I do not care. It may happen that in the future I would need to look back and say to my self than when times called for being civil I did everything possible to avoid the parasites, looters, and moochers from taking over.

Though if America elects Hillary I know the parasite-looter-moocher mentality has really permeated into our culture and this ship need to see darker times before seeing the light again. It may take a century though and the US as we know it may change for the worse.

[Feisbook Control]

I don't believe in the concept of democracy. It's a tyranny of the masses, two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. The average person is an absolute moron. The same people who are swimming in debt at a personal level are expected to suddenly get their shit together en masse when it comes to decisions involving trillions of dollars? Most probably couldn't even explain what inflation is.

As for Australian democracy, firstly, to suggest that Australia doesn't get wackos is more than slightly off the mark. Twenty years ago, that might have been correct. Yet Cultural Marxism has fully taken root in Australia just as much as anywhere else in the West. Sure, no one is goosestepping or shoving you in an oven. Instead, it's death by one thousand cuts. The preferential voting system there is fucked, too. For your vote to be valid, you must place a number beside every candidate (it used to be possible to only number one as many as you wanted). If your candidate isn't in the running for top two, in effect, you end up forced to vote for someone you don't want. Also, it's completely absurd to force people to vote. That should be their choice, and they shouldn't have to even show up to register a protest vote by spoiling their ballot. For years, I was not enrolled to vote in Australia. Occasionally, I'd get a letter from the government, but I moved frequently enough that it never really became an issue. If push had come to shove, I still wouldn't have voted. I'd have taken the fine instead. Maybe I would have paid it, maybe not. It never came to that, so I don't know.

The other point I'd like to discuss, which relates to people such as TheWastelander is something completely different. Firstly, people such as Cody Wilson/Defense Distributed have made/are making the whole issue of gun rights largely irrelevant. As he likes to say, that is a real political act. Aside from that though, the real problem with single issue voting is that it plays into the biggest flaw of representative democracy. In a representative democracy, you get one vote. In effect, you vote for a basket of policies or positions. What happens if you're really passionate about one issue, but no party supports positions you like for other issues? If you choose the party that supports your position on your main issue, you get stuck with their other positions, no matter how fucked they are. Every election cycle, both the left and the right roll out their talking points on certain issues: gun rights, abortion, the war on women, etc. This drives the frothing masses to the polls like lemmings. In the meantime, both parties have completely hoodwinked all of these people on a whole lot of other social and economic issues, but it's okay, right? No matter what, you've got to vote against the party that wants to intrude on your right to guns or your uterus, because then everything will be okay.

I think real political activism comes through exit, not voice. It comes from saying you don't give a shit because you're going to 3D print yourself a gun and they can't stop you. It comes from saying you're going to move your money offshore or hide it as cryptocurrnecy or buried as precious metals in a forest somewhere. It comes from dropping out of the real economy into the black market. It comes from getting a second passport. It comes from not dating, let alone marrying, Western women. As Bruce Lee said: "You could call it the art of fighting without fighting."

Exit over voice, because voice is a carefully engineered game that is stacked against you, but offers the illusion of a real chance.