[Vitriol]

From:

http://nexxtlevelup.com/game/34-game-love-and-fear

Quote:

Today I turn thirty four and as I often do I take it as a moment to reflect on what it all means. To survey my life and environment and reevaluate the direction it’s heading. Game, PUA, Red Pill, MRA, Manosphere. God I’ve been in this shit for way too long. In a way I’ve watched it grow over ten years. From Tucker Max stories of crazy nights of getting drunk and laid to money making scheme of teaching other guys how to get laid to a complete lifestyle movement along with a way of fighting the extremes of Feminism.

What I see around me in the Manosphere is how game has morphed into fear. Western women are evil and just want to get you married, take your children, divorce you and leave you broke and beaten… all of them. Any woman who’s a lawyer or has a career is untrustworthy. Women who are educated and have successful careers are a bad investment. A new scientific report has come out showing that if a woman’s index finger is longer than her pointer finger she has more masculine traits and therefore more likely to cheat, so now go around measuring a woman’s finger. Marriage is a suckers bet not worth it. Long term relationships aren’t worth it. Investing your time or resources in any woman for any amount of time is not worth it.

Game has turned a young man’s lifestyle into a permanent state of being. It focuses on gaining a life full of lovers and bangs with multiple women instead of wasting time on any one girl developing anything deeper. It uses the theory that because most women by nature will eventually hurt you, screw you over, take something from you that the smart bet is to get your bangs in and keep it moving to the next fresh girl. Game after your twenties becomes a way of risk avoidance. It’s a simple way for guy to never enter into a relationship with a woman that may hurt them in some way. Or if you do enter a mini relationship to do so in such a way that you’ll always have the upper hand. A big point/ fear game uses is that there is always something better you can be getting so why settle for one. It tries to sell you this dream that on your death bed, in your final hours, you’ll think of all the hot young ass you pulled for many years and go into eternity with a smile on your face because you were too alpha to settle for anything less. It’s basically a way to brag in life over a meaningless victory.

Ask any guy who’s fucked a lot of women I mean A LOT. 150, 250, over 300. Ask them how many they really remember. Fuck I have a very impressive notch count and I don’t remember 95% of them. The minutes after I come things fade, a few months later the faces become a blur, finally a year later I can’t remember their names or the fact that we even fucked. That’s what’s waiting for you on your death bed.

Yes, with game you are smart enough to avoid the pain that comes with a relationship, you can always upgrade to a new model whenever you want. But taken to the extreme it’s like playing a video game, passing the first level, then pressing restart and playing the first level again. The first level is easy because you know where all the secret passage ways are, were all the weapons are hidden, when all the bad guys are coming. But everyone has told you the next level gets harder and more complex, that levels after that take longer and more investments to complete. That the odds of you even still liking the game and wanting to play become so miniscule that going past level one isn’t worth your time.

A brief summary of the levels

Level one
•See girl, talk to girl, get phone number
•Get girl out on 1 to 3 dates sleep with girl
•Sleep with girl for as long as possible before she wants a relationship/serious commitment

Level two
•Date girl in mini relationship to long term relationship (months to years)
•Move in live together till next level or breakup

Level three
•Get married, house, kids, old age death
•Divorce.



All of these levels need game. The more levels you get into the more serious game you’ll need. There are guys I know who are stuck and struggling on level one having trouble getting a girls to show up to fucking dates. A lot of guys writing about game that are good at it and myself can get through level one in one fucking night, in the matter of a few hours. But could you imagine living your whole life on level one? Do you see how easily Heaven can turn into Purgatory? How a gift becomes a curse? And for what? Because you’ve heard from others that level two and level three aren’t worth it? Or they are only worth it with a specific type of girl that existed long ago in the 1930’s that our great grandfathers were surrounded by.

Here’s the hard truth most game gurus don’t tell you. The relationship between couples has not changes by much since the dawn of time. Men have cheated, women have cheated, and couples have argued and fought and wanted to kill each other. There are ups and there are downs. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. It’s one big fucking fight. It just depends what kind of fighter you are. Are you the type who sees his opponent in the ring and decides to never set up the fight because he’s too big or too good or the odds of winning aren’t in your favor or with the help of game do you start training and fighting lessor opponents until you’ve worked your way up to the level where you’re ready to fight. To give it your all and know that in the end there is still a chance of losing. Game is not a guarantee of never getting hurt. To avoid any and all pain is to avoid really living ALL possibilities of your life. Obviously there will always be something better/ younger out there… ALWAYS!

In your twenties use game to experience them all, get your notches, explore everything sexually your heart desires. But never become afraid of a relationship with a woman who you are attracted to that turns you on and satisfies you in the way that you want. Date her! If you are dating her and you could see her living with you then live with her! If you’ve been living with her and could see being with her for the rest of your life and her having your kids then fucking marry her (or have kids)! You will come to this point when you know deep down that another notch won’t make your life better. When the return of getting dressed, going out, and spitting game for sex starts to give you diminishing returns on the pleasure of that actual sex. If you decide to go to the next levels, you two may grow up together and in the same direction or grow apart and become different people but you fucking stepped in the ring and you fought for something. You lived your life without fear and without rushing into anything. Do not fear fully loving someone because to love someone is to accept that that person will eventually hurt you. They’ll let you down, steal from you, disappoint you, lie to you and even if they manage to not do any of this and it all works out… they die on you. All of these things are out of your control but the risks of the lowest points are just what comes with the highest feeling of Love. The best thing about game is once you’ve learned it, it’s always there, and it gives you confidence. The true confidence comes from knowing that if it doesn’t work out, you’ll be hurt, pick yourself up and will be able to go out say hello to a pretty girl and start the game all over again. That’s what the real fighters’ do that’s what survivors do. That’s what people who truly live life do.

I think he's off his rocker about this. For example, Tom Leykis recently had a show where he described as what VK says are levels 2 and 3 as not being worth it, because your girlfriend / wifey is going to do whatever the fuck she wants anyway. In the era of smartphones and internet dating, why be the sucker who buys into that? She has a new dick available every couple of minutes, so no matter what level of "game" or success you have, it's a losing battle.

[WanderingSoul]

I think he is right.

Not every girl out there is a whore ready to fuck your best friend and take half of your shit.

There are legitimate good girls out there, just like there are legitimate good guys out there. There are also bad ones. Probably way more bad ones than good, but still there are good ones.

I'm not saying run out and get married, and I don't think VK is either. I think he's mostly highlighting how negative the Manosphere is in their views towards women. I agree a lot of chicks suck, especially western chicks. But if you're new to game and success with women I think the Manosphere will make you go overboard with the woman hating.

[Agastya]

(10-10-2014 12:08 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

I think he is right.

Not every girl out there is a whore ready to fuck your best friend and take half of your shit.

There are legitimate good girls out there, just like there are legitimate good guys out there. There are also bad ones. Probably way more bad ones than good, but still there are good ones.

I'm not saying run out and get married, and I don't think VK is either. I think he's mostly highlighting how negative the Manosphere is in their views towards women. I agree a lot of chicks suck, especially western chicks. But if you're new to game and success with women I think the Manosphere will make you go overboard with the woman hating.

Yeah, I found little in VK's article that I disagreed with.

[Cattle Rustler]

I was going to post what RioNomad pretty much said.

Not every bitch is out there to get your money, not every woman will fuck every dick that comes their way.

The "manosphere" has derailed into a Male-SJW movement, too much bitterness and negativity. VKs post motivated me and changed my mood. Fucking bitches, or trying to, gets boring.

If I ever feel down, I'm reading it again.

You need to live life on your terms, not on what some guy told you.

[Pepini]

Try buying a ring and asking a girl to marry you. That's one of the most intense feeling in life.

Nowadays what I see is that people think marriage is like hollywood movies. It's not. There's good and bad moments.

Woman are like cars. A Porsche is like a hot slut. It spends a lot of gas, everybody look at you when driving it you cannot do long trips or use it everyday. The sound of the engine is só loud you have to scream ifyouwanna have a conversation. Basically it's a high maintenance car. You end up selling it or use it just for a spin.

The you have a BMW series 5. It's a lady. Extremely confortable, good car for long trips, discreet but still a good looking car. Reasonable spendingof gas.

Woman are not all the same. That's like saying cars are all the same. Or music is all the same. Of course not.

If it's just for a spin drive a Porsche or ferrari. If it's for the long run a series 5 or a class s is a better bet.
Don't buy a Porsche or a Ferrari, this is marry a slut And expect it to behave like a lady. It won't because it's not what it's designed for. It's designed to use it once in a while. If you drive a Porsche everyday you will get tired of it.
Best solution is: buy a series 5 for everyday and drive a Porsche once in a while.

[Brosemite]

(10-10-2014 12:08 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

I agree a lot of chicks suck, especially western chicks. But if you're new to game and success with women I think the Manosphere will make you go overboard with the woman hating.

I can understand why there are some older experienced guys in game that are jaded and negative.

But if you're a younger newbie in game (or life in general), you can't afford to start out with such a negative outlook. The energy dedicated towards hating should be utilized towards making positive strides and the search for real answers.

[TheWastelander]

It all depends on how much risk you're willing to accept and what you ultimately want.

That being said, he downplays a lot of the risk in my opinion. Parts of his post have that sort of condescending "man up" tone you hear from chicks and white knights from time to time.

And I personally wouldn't look at any of the type of girls he seems to think are alright as long term relationship or marriage material. If he wants to wife up a masculine chick, more power to him.

[CRR]

I'm older, but I wouldn't say I'm jaded.

While I do think it's the minority, I've known more than a few "good" girls. Been in two LTRs with good girls. Verified that both had been with one guy before me while in LTRs, both were very attractive. They like to fuck as much as any woman, it's just they like to be in a relationship while doing so. I work with a few good girls who are attractive and married.

My issue is with feminism. In the most broad sense I think it 1) Pushes a horribly selfish and self destructive mindset on women. 2) Turns men into simpering, second class citizens.

As I've stated, feminism has such become the norm, it had seeped into my mindset to a certain degree. I was plagued with self doubt. Finding this place brought me a ton of clarity.

The positive thing is that I've been more open and, thanks to these forums, effective in expressing my red pill/anti-feminism views. More importantly, I've received a positive response from men AND many women that I talk to. In regards to the women, I think innately they are more attracted to and respond to a man who believes in 1) gender roles 2) masculinity and 3) anti fat acceptance.

So I would say focus on the anti-feminism more than anything. If anything proves this, just remember the women against. Nearly all feminine and attractive:

http://www.returnofkings.com/40160/top-1...m-movement

[2Wycked]

What Rio said.

[speakeasy]

Bravo to VK's post. He's now in his mid-30s and just like other guys that have been blogging about pick up for awhile such as Mark Manson, he's reaching a higher stage of emotional maturity and taking on a more balanced, healthy view in dealing with women. I'd say that's a positive development.

[Duke Castile]

Tl;dr

Saw the part about nit remembering bangs.

Two words:

Digital Memories

I'll be on my deathbed scrolling through hot ass on my iphone 50s

[dads]

I would hate to try to define the point of game for anyone, but there is a bit of a "duh" factor in his post for me... A notch count over 100 is going to be a bit soul crushing. I'm not surprised if you have over 75 notches, that you start to see the white knight light. However, I don't feel like game exclusively relates to having to bang hundreds of young ladies. It could mean being able to have multiple good relationships, where you would remember the girl a few months down the line.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

I also agree with his main point, but we need to take it in contest. He says:

"The relationship between couples has not changes by much since the dawn of time. Men have cheated, women have cheated, and couples have argued and fought and wanted to kill each other."

While he's right that men and women have not changed, what has changed are:

1). The laws governing men and women -- which are now heavily female-biased, esp. when it comes to family court.

2). The larger sociological context in which men and women operate. Once upon a time, social pressure would have kept women from "frivorcing" a guy and making off with half his assets. Now, it's accepted and encouraged. There was no "Real Housewives" franchise years ago, to cite one example.

Hence, the bad feelings about marriage and co-habitation. The negativity and "reverse social justice warrior" mentality of this board and Return of Kings (and Tom Leykis, etc.) didn't come out of nowhere. They evolved in response the laws and culture that disenfranchised men and made marriage and kids a less-than-ideal choice.

He also says:

"If you’ve been living with her and could see being with her for the rest of your life and her having your kids then fucking marry her (or have kids)! You will come to this point when you know deep down that another notch won’t make your life better."

I was married and would agree with that. He's right relationships can beat endless dates and/or notches. But I'll also say that if you go that route, you'd better be prepared for how men fare after divorce and not think "It won't happen to me."

To conclude: I'm pretty sure that if someone waved a magic wand and we were beamed back into 1965 (or even 1975), we'd all feel differently. But these are not those times. Metaphorically speaking, we've gone from "Help Me Rhonda" (#1 in 1965) to "Anaconda" (a major hit this year). A lot of what goes on here isn't negativity for it's own sake, it's men learning how to respond to that.

[TheBulldozer]

He's right.

I desire two things in life: Hard work and happiness.

What generates happiness?

Money? To a point.

Freedom? A tremendous amount.

Sex? For a fleeting moment.

Companionship? Yes.

The importance of bonding with other human beings, whether they're friends, family or lovers is part of the human experience. It is in fact the elegant quality of being a human. For me, the red pill is understanding the truth about how humans connect to each other. Everything in life spirals out of how we interact with one another. It's not worth framing your world view through the premise that people, or in this case women are evil. It's not healthy. Establishing and maintaining a positive frame can have profound effects on the way people interact with you.

I choose to view everyone in a positive way, but my eyes are always wide open to truths about human behavior.

By living my life in this way, I have very few enemies and have had very few people, men or women, ever attempt to fuck me over.

[Travesty]

He talks from the player side, but not from the side of a man who has been married then:

divorced
cheated on
wife gains weight
daughter turns into a drug addict
wife turns into a bitch
sexless marriage
boring marriage

The odds in the U.S. between divorce or staying in a crappy marriage combine must be over 70%.

So yes, the manosphere isn't a boogieman. It's playing the odds.

This isn't Rocky or Rudy or some underdog movie. This is all your money, hard work, and life on the line.

I want to see if VK got married then cheated on or got half his money, dog taken, and alimony if he's says it was all worth it.

[heavy]

^^^Yes Travesty444.

In regards to LTR/marriage vs not..."You choose what set of problems you wanna live with" - said someone I know

Most guys...I'd say over 80%...live with one or more of the following problems...
- Never having had sex
- Only drunken one night stands
- Girls bored of them
- Being interesting fun guys but not around attractive women
- Dying for attention from a woman / women
- Overall don't understand women

Like mentioned above, the manosphere/ROK/RVF didn't come from a barren wasteland, they originated from fertile grounds of cheating girlfriends, grrl power, in-depend-aannt women, women needing men only for sex, alpha fucks, college co-ed orgies with the football team...the list goes on.

My 11 yr old niece..."heavy, you're going to die alone"
Me...(smirk) "We all die alone"

[Travesty]

^ And why is the pussy so high on a pedestal your dying thoughts are about a single woman? Or the women you bang?

Women for the most part to quote WC are entertainment.

How about your family members? Friends? Places you've been? Things you've created or learned about?

Even more important, contributions and service to humanity...

VK is just making the issue of how you treat women in general way too important and way too dramatic.

The best part is him saying look how many notches I have...

Ok the average guy getting into this may come out of a crappy relationship or have no sex and slowly work his way through 1 notch every 6 months for the rest of his life and NEVER get to that point and enjoy the hell out of it all the way to the grave.

His problem is the equivalent of telling a poor African villager about how he settled for a 50 inch instead of a 60" flat screen. First world or rich guy player problems equivalent.

[CRR]

(10-10-2014 06:48 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

I also agree with his main point, but we need to take it in contest. He says:

"The relationship between couples has not changes by much since the dawn of time. Men have cheated, women have cheated, and couples have argued and fought and wanted to kill each other."

While he's right that men and women have not changed, what has changed are:

1). The laws governing men and women -- which are now heavily female-biased, esp. when it comes to family court.

2). The larger sociological context in which men and women operate. Once upon a time, social pressure would have kept women from "frivorcing" a guy and making off with half his assets. Now, it's accepted and encouraged. There was no "Real Housewives" franchise years ago, to cite one example.

Great post as always.

I'd add that feminism has completely corrupted the female attitude towards men. It teaches them that there is no accountability, and if they feel a certain way, then it is justified. Any criticism of women by men is misogynistic. In other words, any social contract between men and women has to be entirely on the woman's terms.

It didn't used to be this way, and among non-feminist women it's still a two way street.

(10-10-2014 08:54 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

Companionship? Yes.

The importance of bonding with other human beings, whether they're friends, family or lovers is part of the human experience. It is in fact the elegant quality of being a human. For me, the red pill is understanding the truth about how humans connect to each other. Everything in life spirals out of how we interact with one another. It's not worth framing your world view through the premise that people, or in this case women are evil. It's not healthy. Establishing and maintaining a positive frame can have profound effects on the way people interact with you.

Yes.

And continuing on my response above, it's hard to bond with someone when it is such a one way street.

I think we bond with family members for natural reasons. We've seen each other grow and can rely on one another.

We bond with friends over mutual interests and values.

We bond with lovers over an innate attraction to one another. While we believe this is a two way street, feminism corrupts this in that it is attempting to nullify the man's desires. Or as has been said in these forums "feminism wants to remove all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality". And it doesn't work that way. We can't tell a woman what to like no more than they can tell us that their friend who is a land whale is "hot". But they are literally trying to tell us what our beauty standards should be.

Or as Parlay44 said

Quote:

It's only natural to be attracted to slim, fertile, healthy looking women. Women seem to have unionized these days and have taken the stance of "This is what you get. Deal with it." Well we're not having it ladies. We're busting up your union with fat shaming and love tourism. How do you feel about that? We're the Pinkertons of Poon

[The Beast1]

(10-10-2014 09:55 AM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

He talks from the player side, but not from the side of a man who has been married then:

divorced
cheated on
wife gains weight
daughter turns into a drug addict
wife turns into a bitch
sexless marriage
boring marriage

The odds in the U.S. between divorce or staying in a crappy marriage combine must be over 70%.

So yes, the manosphere isn't a boogieman. It's playing the odds.

This isn't Rocky or Rudy or some underdog movie. This is all your money, hard work, and life on the line.

I want to see if VK got married then cheated on or got half his money, dog taken, and alimony if he's says it was all worth it.

The reason crappy marriages exist are precisely because most men are emotionally undeveloped and lack game to keep their women in line.

VK will never get divorce raped. He has been around the block long enough to know the warning signs as well as how to keep high quality broads around.

What makes men think that once you get married you can sit back and get fat while your wife runs the show? A man leads by example and when most men sit around, watch football, and fail to better themselves why is it no surprise that women get fat and bitchy. Women are followers and follow individuals that are driven.

VK is 100% correct. Be driven and push your woman to better herself when you are doing the same. This is the formula i've seen for successful lifelong relationships. Which by the way do take work and are also incredibly fulfilling.

Use game to filter the people you don't want. Remember as men we have the gift of time. Something women don't have. Wait for marriage and date younger women who respect your accomplishments.

[Veloce]

Thread title is in very poor taste.

[TigerMandingo]

I thought this thread was going to be about VKontakte, the Russian facebook.

[Travesty]

^ frenchie

This is explains why you see good looking in shape guys with good jobs paired with fupa, flabby, plain janes all over the Anglo Western countries?

If women "followed" so easily why do we have such a detailed Travel forum for guys getting away as fast as they can?

You gotta be kidding me.

And VK could never get divorce raped?

You think men with more status, game, and looks have never been divorced?

What is this?

"Exception Wins Over The Rule Day?"

[Orion]

As long as "getting married" means "Ok, I'll loosen my frame a little bit to accommodate", you will be screwed. If you are getting married because YOU want it, for reasons that will make YOU a better, more fulfilled man, than your are perhaps doing the right thing. It's no secret that man's enthusiasm to "conquer the world" fades with age.

[kaotic]

Rio & Cattle gave me a breath of fresh air - perhaps some glimmering hope

(10-10-2014 12:08 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

I think he is right.

Not every girl out there is a whore ready to fuck your best friend and take half of your shit.

There are legitimate good girls out there, just like there are legitimate good guys out there. There are also bad ones. Probably way more bad ones than good, but still there are good ones.

There may be GOOD girls out there BUT you're gambling. You could dial everything in and your frame/game/wealth/socio/etc be on point and woman can still fuck with you and ruin your day (read: illogical choices).

(10-10-2014 12:23 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

I was going to post what RioNomad pretty much said.

Not every bitch is out there to get your money, not every woman will fuck every dick that comes their way.

The "manosphere" has derailed into a Male-SJW movement, too much bitterness and negativity. VKs post motivated me and changed my mood. Fucking bitches, or trying to, gets boring.

Honestly there has been a bit of negativity, I like vibing on the positive side. We should focus more on that (of course still call woman out on their BS.)

(10-10-2014 09:55 AM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

He talks from the player side, but not from the side of a man who has been married then:

The odds in the U.S. between divorce or staying in a crappy marriage combine must be over 70%.

So yes, the manosphere isn't a boogieman. It's playing the odds.

This isn't Rocky or Rudy or some underdog movie. This is all your money, hard work, and life on the line.

Travesty plays devils advocate VERY well and I've got to side on him with this one, VK isn't the exception to what's happening.

(10-10-2014 10:26 AM)heavy Wrote:  

^^^Yes Travesty444.

In regards to LTR/marriage vs not..."You choose what set of problems you wanna live with" - said someone I know

Most guys...I'd say over 80%...live with one or more of the following problems...

....Like mentioned above, the manosphere/ROK/RVF didn't come from a barren wasteland, they originated from fertile grounds of cheating girlfriends, grrl power, in-depend-aannt women, women needing men only for sex, alpha fucks, college co-ed orgies with the football team...the list goes on.

Heavy's also right, most men aren't 100% the full package, even if they are, they STILL can get fucked. This forum, blogs, websites weren't created out of thin air, they were created off alot of men's experiences. For GOOD reason.


Personally, I don't think we should be focusing on all the BS woman put out, but we shouldn't be putting these supposed good girls out there on a pedestal either.

There has to be a BALANCE.

[The Beast1]

(10-10-2014 11:41 AM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

^ frenchie

This is explains why you see good looking in shape guys with good jobs paired with fupa, flabby, plain janes all over the Anglo Western countries?

If women "followed" so easily why do we have such a detailed Travel forum for guys getting away as fast as they can?

You gotta be kidding me.

And VK could never get divorce raped?

You think men with more status, game, and looks have never been divorced?

What is this?

"Exception Wins Over The Rule Day?"

Strangely enough, all of the well paid jacked finance guys I know don't have frumpy girlfriends. They're all doing quite well for themselves with women who mind their manners and health.

Guess my experiences are different. Anecdotal evidence is all I have and with the circles I roll in (devote Christian groups) I haven't run into these problems we talk about. When I was in college and banging club bunnies sure definitely, but not people whose lives revolve outside of the bars and clubs.

Secondly, the only people who i know who have been divorced raped are my uncle, father, and step dad all of which were pretty emotionally under-developed. They thought that once they had the girl there wasn't anything left to do. All of them got fat and lazy and their women got depressed and aimless. Both sides of the equations had issues they were unwilling to work with.

After having a lot of ONS, mini relationships, and a couple serious long term ones I have had no problem utilizing all forms of game to get girls to do exactly what I want. Hell, the more I worked out the more they cleaned up their own act. You can use the "game" on your own female family members to get them to do your bidding.

Foreign cultures (and women) are incredible don't get me wrong. But after having my way with American women I don't really see the difficulty everyone complains about.

(10-10-2014 12:05 PM)Orion Wrote:  

As long as "getting married" means "Ok, I'll loosen my frame a little bit to accommodate", you will be screwed. If you are getting married because YOU want it, for reasons that will make YOU a better, more fulfilled man, than your are perhaps doing the right thing. It's no secret that man's enthusiasm to "conquer the world" fades with age.

This! There is no "compromising" on the part of the man. The only frame that changes is the female's not yours.